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Hi guys, it's about time the community has a discussion about this and gets a dialogue going with Blizzard about it as well.
For one reason or another it became taboo to talk about hackers or even fathom that they exist still on StarCraft 2. This needs to change.
People may have most recently seen the drama with me playing versus Nero/Retribution/Spectrum + whatever other aliases he goes by in WCS, and how i ended up getting banned and not allowed another chance at the same qualifier, despite me being the one that is screwed over by the maphacker.
This needs to change. It's unacceptable that players or personalities in this community can point out cheaters/hackers and then be demonized or called toxic or whatever else. Back in Brood War it was the opposite - people called out hackers all the time and there were even many known Brood War players that people thought would never EVER hack that got caught hacking.
An example of this is Pig during the most recent WCS qualifiers making claims that there are no maphacks, as well as personalities in the scene like Nathanias that keep perpetuating that there are no working maphacks for SC2 which is honestly not the case.
Can we get a dialogue going in the community here and with Blizzard that doesn't end up with "fuck avilo" essentially? Honestly keeping the integrity of SC2 tourneys and ladder is pretty important for the game to stay alive and grow more.
Here is a game that i just played today demonstrating how prevalent this is on ladder right now:
The person in the clip above is 100% utilizing a production tab hack + maphack to do what he did in the clip.
Is this going to be addressed by Blizzard at all? Are we all going to pretend it's not going on for even longer? Does it take the Korean SC2 community pro players complaining about it again for anything to be done about it? (is there even enough of a korean progaming team/scene/ladder scene left TO complain about it)?
The last time hacks became prevalent in SC2 was during HOTS, in which the same thing happened - people continuously denied it, and if you showed someone 100% proof they'd say you are making excuses. It wasn't until the korean ladder became infested with these cheaters that blizzard decided they needed to more proactively do something.
As a community there needs to be a discussion about this. No more pretending it's not going on, and that it's become more prevalent.
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Agreed, but I thought there was no real world solution.
Only way to beat a maphacker is to crush them with mechanics/macro
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Whether there are or are not map hacks currently being used I don't know, I'm not of a high enough skill level to know for sure (although after watching some recent clips it does seem like they are currently a problem).
However, it seems naive to say that SC2 hacks do not exist and will not exist. Hacks are always changing, just because one doesn't exist today doesn't mean one wont exist tomorrow. How can you say for sure that map hacks don't exist? People aren't going to make the existence of their hacks obvious.
I honestly think to say no hacks exist is just.... silly. No hacks existing to your knowledge is not the same as non existing at all.
(I don't mean this in a criticising way at all, but I do think something should be done about it... The scene is already the weakest it's been in years :'( )
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This along with Ketroc's post I think are concern enough for Blizzard to take this seriously. Now, that being said, perhaps Avilo's opponent knows the timings of vikings very well; or, he is map-hacking for sure. I'm gonna go with the latter, as I do not know of any person that counts the timings of units that well, let alone knows the units being produced. Who's to say Avilo wasn't trying to build liberators? As far-fetched as it sounds for liberators, still, this is more evidence of map-hacks back in the game. Blizzard, you need to address this swiftly. I'll be damned if I or anyone has to play ladder for months before something is done about it.
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TL:DR: "I didn't get enough attention and sympathy cash from the whole DQ ruling, let's cry wolf about maphackers some more"
To be clear here, do maphacks exist? Yes
Do they exist on the scale the original poster is talking about? Hell no.
Ignore him and maybe he'll go away.
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You can't do the timing precisely the first round because you do not know when it the starport went down, nor do you know what was produced originally. So then, lets say sure he got lucky the first round, NO ONE times it perfectly 2 times in a row the way StimPacker did it. Then again, what do I know? This was pretty obvious in my opinion, but I am no expert.
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but I thought all of your opponents are map hackers/stream snipers or xmen ?
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Now I will say that hacks certainly do exist but I would consider them a rarity more so than a problem.
You cry wolf to the extend where its silly and this clip is nothing more than that.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On April 04 2017 17:13 showstealer1829 wrote:
TL:DR: "I didn't get enough attention and sympathy cash from the whole DQ ruling, let's cry wolf about maphackers some more"
To be clear here, do maphacks exist? Yes
Do they exist on the scale the original poster is talking about? Hell no.
Ignore him and maybe he'll go away.
I missed a drama! Can I have details, please?
___
Honestly, now it's too late to try to solve the issue of maphackers no matter how many of them are there or how often they play against Avilo.
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Yes we can talk about it...
1) I am convinced there are hacks for the present iteration of SC2.
2) My estimation (by time spent on the ladder) is that the percentage of players hacking in the US region is no larger than 1% of the total players in the region. I lived in Korea for most of HoTS and I estimate the percentage hacking there was 0.1 %. EU I have no idea...
3) The example you show could be coincidence, it could be hacks - this is not conclusive evidence.
WHICH leads to...
4) Avilo here is what the community, the casters, players, the tournament admins and the fans of the game in general, need from you to ever truly acknowledge and/or trust a single word you post or say:
A) "I avilo, have accused incorrectly too many players of hacking."
B) "I avilo, have too often in the past refused to own up to my own mistakes and failures."
C) "I avilo, have never been able to compete at the highest levels in SC2 and am predictable in my playstyle. " (This is important as 1 - the vast majority of players you have accused of hacking in the past, KNOW HOW YOU PLAY. 2 - Your lack of humility in stating your arguments is detrimental to the credibility of your stance).
D) "I avilo, have been disrespectful towards others players and dismissed their skills at the game too often."
E) "I avilo, will in the future try to be more honest and respectful. I will aim to conduct myself in a more adult manner with the community, the casters, the tournament admins and the fans of the game in general."
F) "I avilo, will stop crying wolf."
G) "I avilo am not special and thus am subject to the same rules and guidelines as participants in any given tournament."
Until you testify to this or something like it, no one of any rational/impartial standing will ever take you seriously. It is sad to see you throw away what potential you might have because you cannot (have not so far) owned up to this.
I am sorry, this is just the truth.
Good luck and Have Fun.
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Oh wow I guessed the author of this topic even before opening it. I must be using telepathy hacks.
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I´m quite new to the scene and do not know anything about coding or stuff like that. Its pretty clear to me that hacking might be possible, considering the possibillities computers offer these days.
I dont like Avilo for obvious reasons (toxic, bla bla bla).
That said, the thread of Ketroc shows more evidence then the clip from OP in this thread that hacking exists.
Also, people demanded a more elaborated and thought through approach by Avilo. In my opinion, Avilo tried this with this thread.
Taking into account that Avilo is a likely target because of his attitude, reaction and manner, I have the feeling that it is understandable that he has a special interest to solve the issue.
All emotions aside, talking about hacking and how to prevent it, seems a good idea to me.
An official statement of Blizzard if they work on that issue and which priority it has to them would be very welcome.
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First of all, most of the community will always dismiss any hacking complaining, because hackers accounts usualy reach masters level, where a very small percentage of people will face them and know they are common, so the rest will always say hacks don't matter.
Second, Blizzard never fixed hacking in SC2 and will never fix hacking in SC2, and don't be surprised if they ruin BW Remaster anti hacking engines.
Third, Avilo complaining about something will just make people instantly dismiss the problem, because Avilo is Avilo. Something to keep in mind. So it would be better if someone else oppened this thread.
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On April 04 2017 21:45 xTJx wrote:
Second, Blizzard never fixed hacking in SC2 and will never fix hacking in SC2, and don't be surprised if they ruin BW Remaster anti hacking engines..
The official battle.net servers have had non-existent anti cheat for years lol they're actually improving that with the re-release
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On April 04 2017 14:48 avilo wrote:Hi guys, it's about time the community has a discussion about this and gets a dialogue going with Blizzard about it as well. For one reason or another it became taboo to talk about hackers or even fathom that they exist still on StarCraft 2. This needs to change. People may have most recently seen the drama with me playing versus Nero/Retribution/Spectrum + whatever other aliases he goes by in WCS, and how i ended up getting banned and not allowed another chance at the same qualifier, despite me being the one that is screwed over by the maphacker. This needs to change. It's unacceptable that players or personalities in this community can point out cheaters/hackers and then be demonized or called toxic or whatever else. Back in Brood War it was the opposite - people called out hackers all the time and there were even many known Brood War players that people thought would never EVER hack that got caught hacking. An example of this is Pig during the most recent WCS qualifiers making claims that there are no maphacks, as well as personalities in the scene like Nathanias that keep perpetuating that there are no working maphacks for SC2 which is honestly not the case. Can we get a dialogue going in the community here and with Blizzard that doesn't end up with "fuck avilo" essentially? Honestly keeping the integrity of SC2 tourneys and ladder is pretty important for the game to stay alive and grow more. Here is a game that i just played today demonstrating how prevalent this is on ladder right now: https://clips.twitch.tv/FlaccidScaryIcecreamChefFrankThe person in the clip above is 100% utilizing a production tab hack + maphack to do what he did in the clip.Is this going to be addressed by Blizzard at all? Are we all going to pretend it's not going on for even longer? Does it take the Korean SC2 community pro players complaining about it again for anything to be done about it? (is there even enough of a korean progaming team/scene/ladder scene left TO complain about it)? The last time hacks became prevalent in SC2 was during HOTS, in which the same thing happened - people continuously denied it, and if you showed someone 100% proof they'd say you are making excuses. It wasn't until the korean ladder became infested with these cheaters that blizzard decided they needed to more proactively do something. As a community there needs to be a discussion about this. No more pretending it's not going on, and that it's become more prevalent.
Clearly you are not reading my posts in reply to your idiocy, and moreover, it's amazing that you have the audacity to continually post your denial on TL. As I have mentioned previously, there are no working production tab hacks that are similar to the ones previously known to us (the ones we think of with UI etc). This sort of misinformation and crying is pathetic and makes you look like a complete (enter 4 letter derogatory word here). For that reason, I have reported your post.
Seriously dude, grow up. This is why nobody likes you; and moreover, why you're banned from WCS. You should be incredibly thankful you're still on TL's featured list even thought you're banned from the competitive circuit (which I find interesting?).
Simply read my previous posts to you on this topic, the pathetic video of you vs Jason, or just about anything else about you on this topic and you'll understand everyone's point of view... or at least you should.
Seriously speaking on the topic you've brought up, I do know that many pros are always looking over replays when they practice. If you think they've never had a thought in the back of their mind that some1 may be map hacking you'd be silly. This is what they're looking for a lot of the times in addition to what went wrong on their end and how to improve. The thing is, almost all of them simply don't find evidence and thus don't make flamboyant claims... They're open to the info, as Snute was. But unless it can be proven... don't be silly -_-
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Coming from someone who accused Pilipili of being an hacker because he scouted a common proxy location.
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@kyo
How do you know there are no production tab hacks? What about maphack?
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It's a problem and has to be adressed, but you can be sure Blizz is working on it. They've always been secretive about anti hacking measures.
At least we had way less of this since LotV. None at all for quite some time even.
Btw that player might've been hacking, but in the clip you posted, there is no evidence at all. The build time of Vikings is not exactly a secret.
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On April 04 2017 22:06 jimminy_kriket wrote:
@kyo
How do you know there are no production tab hacks? What about maphack?
I've sent this to multiple people in PM's but ... -_-;;
How about...
Checking the hacking websites........??
![[image loading]](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/LLpIMRowndg/maxresdefault.jpg)
edit: also the report link for the OP is broken; unless it just bugged out after I sent the pastebin. If any mod wants the info feel free to msg me, tho i've sent some of it to lichter already (no clue if he checked it)
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The person starting this thread doesn't matter, only the topic.
Do hacks exist? Yes, it comes with the nature of a competitive game like SC2.
Do hacks ruin the gameplay of a considerable part of the playerbase? I don't know any statistics but I think the answer is no. There are more important things to improve in SC2 in my opinion.
Now some more interesting questions:
Can hacks ever be stopped? No, not at all. This is like the fight of virus and antivirus systems. Or like illegal downloading. This is another reason why developers shouldn't put too much effort in it.
Do we have to stop hacks at all? Probably not. Firstly, hacks in SC2 are only "light" hacks. Which means that you can "play around" maphacks by better macro and mechanics. Additionally some players (TY for example) know the game so well that it feels like a maphack. Sometimes he moves out to a random location on the map, snipes a drop and pulls back.
So my point is that it's possible to play on such a high level that production or map hacks are almost irrelevant.
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About the clip : viking are 42sec to build, he could just look at the timer and add 42 sec to know exactly when to strike again. It's just not conclusive. It's sketchy, sure, but not conclusive.
Is there some functional map hacks out there? Almost for sure. There will always be. CS:GO is filled with hackers, too, even tho the scene is way bigger than sc2 and even tho valve anti cheat system is one of the best out there. Coders can modify the code real fast to keep up with up.
I'm not sure anyone know how deep of shallow the hacking problem is on sc2.
You actually had a good basis for your accusations during the qualifiers, blizzard even reacted correctly. If it happens again, maybe next time try not to be toxic on stream and towards the staff since it's obviously against the rule and if they don't listen even tho you are right and you actually have some proof, just do yout best during the games, keep it cool, then proceed to make it public with a respectful post on reddit/tl/whatever. Same result, without the bad consequences for yourself.
Is that too hard?
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On April 04 2017 22:08 -Kyo- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 22:06 jimminy_kriket wrote:
@kyo
How do you know there are no production tab hacks? What about maphack? I've sent this to multiple people in PM's but ... -_-;; How about... Checking the hacking websites........?? edit: also the report link for the OP is broken; unless it just bugged out after I sent the pastebin. If any mod wants the info feel free to msg me, tho i've sent some of it to lichter already (no clue if he checked it)
So 1 minute of looking found this:
http://imgur.com/1hMBE7T
Which was posted mar 26 so yeah, i dunno..
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On April 04 2017 22:25 jimminy_kriket wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 22:08 -Kyo- wrote:On April 04 2017 22:06 jimminy_kriket wrote:
@kyo
How do you know there are no production tab hacks? What about maphack? I've sent this to multiple people in PM's but ... -_-;; How about... Checking the hacking websites........?? edit: also the report link for the OP is broken; unless it just bugged out after I sent the pastebin. If any mod wants the info feel free to msg me, tho i've sent some of it to lichter already (no clue if he checked it) So 1 minute of looking found this: http://imgur.com/1hMBE7TWhich was posted mar 26 so yeah, i dunno..
I can not see a production tab on that picture.
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Norway28665 Posts
what the hell dude? You've played RTS games for more than a decade and the thought that someone has a decent internal clock capable of understanding how long a production cycle lasts is beyond your comprehension? That clip you posted isn't even remotely close to being proof of anything other than your own glaringly obvious lacking understanding of the one thing in life you are supposed to be best at.
Like, in brood war, zvt, I quite frequently fly in a pair of scourge towards their starport right around the time when I estimate that the first vessel is going to complete. I'm usually wrong by enough seconds that marines end up picking off the scourge. But every now and then, I fly in the scourge, and the vessel pops out. It's certainly never hack - but if you only watch the games where I get it right, boy would it look suspicious. You see one example of something significantly less suspicious than that, and conclude maphack. It's ridiculous.
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On April 04 2017 22:25 jimminy_kriket wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 22:08 -Kyo- wrote:On April 04 2017 22:06 jimminy_kriket wrote:
@kyo
How do you know there are no production tab hacks? What about maphack? I've sent this to multiple people in PM's but ... -_-;; How about... Checking the hacking websites........?? edit: also the report link for the OP is broken; unless it just bugged out after I sent the pastebin. If any mod wants the info feel free to msg me, tho i've sent some of it to lichter already (no clue if he checked it) So 1 minute of looking found this: http://imgur.com/1hMBE7TWhich was posted mar 26 so yeah, i dunno..
Plus, most hacking community sell their newest/best hacks in a private circle for a ifty price (private forums or via onion) because obviously when it's out in the public, blizzard/valve can just update their anti cheat. They start selling it for cheap to a wider audience when it leaked already and when the anti cheat or the detection method is probably getting updated already. We probably all have a friend on steam who hacked on CS:S or CS:GO before who hacked with a free or 5$ hack and was quickly VAC Banned : that's why.
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On April 04 2017 22:31 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 22:25 jimminy_kriket wrote:On April 04 2017 22:08 -Kyo- wrote:On April 04 2017 22:06 jimminy_kriket wrote:
@kyo
How do you know there are no production tab hacks? What about maphack? I've sent this to multiple people in PM's but ... -_-;; How about... Checking the hacking websites........?? edit: also the report link for the OP is broken; unless it just bugged out after I sent the pastebin. If any mod wants the info feel free to msg me, tho i've sent some of it to lichter already (no clue if he checked it) So 1 minute of looking found this: http://imgur.com/1hMBE7TWhich was posted mar 26 so yeah, i dunno.. I can not see a production tab on that picture.
There's a structure/unit tab and it's not a long way from that tab to production tab. Not that you'd need to see the exact production tab if you get a tab showing all structures and units on the map anyway.
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Honestly avilo claimed me and my friend to be maphacking. The situation was something like
Avilo got 2 bases, there is 50%/ 50% change that his army is army is in one of these positions, I do scan his natural and see considerable ammount of army, decide's to drop main and then chat begins:
Avilo: ?????????
Avilo: How do you know here my army is????
Avilo: no scan
ETC
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Canada16699 Posts
On April 04 2017 20:29 AxiomBlurr wrote:
F) "I avilo, will stop crying wolf."
...
...
Good luck and Have Fun.
Avilo is selling you Wolf Tickets to keep his income up ...
and his viewers are eating 'em right up
+ Show Spoiler +
I recall the poster accusing JuggernautJason of maphacking for several weeks and on several occasions. He met him again on the ladder and said "i've accused this guy of hacking before; i don't know if he does" 
its hard to take hacking accusations seriously from a person who says
"i've accused this guy of hacking before; i don't know if he does"
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He is just cycling through. This is not an argument for maphack. If he had maphack wouldn't he abuse it more efficient?
Coincidences exist and are not a rarity in this game. You need real proof. The only valid proof is if he follows your army. Anything else can be something you missed, don't understand or a coincidence.
The best proof against maphack is if he did not see something coming. Nobody risks losing an expansion, tech or main base just to hide a maphack. You could also ask, why would he use maphack if he doesn't take advantage of it.
Also hiding is really difficult. The game is so fast that you can't play well and hide your maphack at the same time at that level (if constant attack).
I know no way to stop maphacks in sc2. But you are smarter than us, you could find a way and make millions! Do it please!
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On April 04 2017 22:37 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 22:31 Musicus wrote:On April 04 2017 22:25 jimminy_kriket wrote:On April 04 2017 22:08 -Kyo- wrote:On April 04 2017 22:06 jimminy_kriket wrote:
@kyo
How do you know there are no production tab hacks? What about maphack? I've sent this to multiple people in PM's but ... -_-;; How about... Checking the hacking websites........?? edit: also the report link for the OP is broken; unless it just bugged out after I sent the pastebin. If any mod wants the info feel free to msg me, tho i've sent some of it to lichter already (no clue if he checked it) So 1 minute of looking found this: http://imgur.com/1hMBE7TWhich was posted mar 26 so yeah, i dunno.. I can not see a production tab on that picture. There's a structure/unit tab and it's not a long way from that tab to production tab. Not that you'd need to see the exact production tab if you get a tab showing all structures and units on the map anyway.
Yeah, but it does not prove Kyo is wrong.
I just think that in the clip that avilo is showing, it's highly likely that no production tab is being used.
I do think maphacks exists, Ketroc's video proved it imo. But every time avilo wants to prove hacking in a replay, there is no evidence at all. In the clip in the OP there is certainly none.
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There was another thread showing that maphack exists, so yes, there is maphack.
But your clip doesn't prove anything at all...
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all maphackers must be heaving a sigh of relief that its avilo who started this thread 
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I don't understand the clip.
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On April 04 2017 21:58 -Kyo- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 14:48 avilo wrote:Hi guys, it's about time the community has a discussion about this and gets a dialogue going with Blizzard about it as well. For one reason or another it became taboo to talk about hackers or even fathom that they exist still on StarCraft 2. This needs to change. People may have most recently seen the drama with me playing versus Nero/Retribution/Spectrum + whatever other aliases he goes by in WCS, and how i ended up getting banned and not allowed another chance at the same qualifier, despite me being the one that is screwed over by the maphacker. This needs to change. It's unacceptable that players or personalities in this community can point out cheaters/hackers and then be demonized or called toxic or whatever else. Back in Brood War it was the opposite - people called out hackers all the time and there were even many known Brood War players that people thought would never EVER hack that got caught hacking. An example of this is Pig during the most recent WCS qualifiers making claims that there are no maphacks, as well as personalities in the scene like Nathanias that keep perpetuating that there are no working maphacks for SC2 which is honestly not the case. Can we get a dialogue going in the community here and with Blizzard that doesn't end up with "fuck avilo" essentially? Honestly keeping the integrity of SC2 tourneys and ladder is pretty important for the game to stay alive and grow more. Here is a game that i just played today demonstrating how prevalent this is on ladder right now: https://clips.twitch.tv/FlaccidScaryIcecreamChefFrankThe person in the clip above is 100% utilizing a production tab hack + maphack to do what he did in the clip.Is this going to be addressed by Blizzard at all? Are we all going to pretend it's not going on for even longer? Does it take the Korean SC2 community pro players complaining about it again for anything to be done about it? (is there even enough of a korean progaming team/scene/ladder scene left TO complain about it)? The last time hacks became prevalent in SC2 was during HOTS, in which the same thing happened - people continuously denied it, and if you showed someone 100% proof they'd say you are making excuses. It wasn't until the korean ladder became infested with these cheaters that blizzard decided they needed to more proactively do something. As a community there needs to be a discussion about this. No more pretending it's not going on, and that it's become more prevalent. Clearly you are not reading my posts in reply to your idiocy, and moreover, it's amazing that you have the audacity to continually post your denial on TL. As I have mentioned previously, there are no working production tab hacks that are similar to the ones previously known to us (the ones we think of with UI etc). This sort of misinformation and crying is pathetic and makes you look like a complete (enter 4 letter derogatory word here). For that reason, I have reported your post. Seriously dude, grow up. This is why nobody likes you; and moreover, why you're banned from WCS. You should be incredibly thankful you're still on TL's featured list even thought you're banned from the competitive circuit (which I find interesting?). Simply read my previous posts to you on this topic, the pathetic video of you vs Jason, or just about anything else about you on this topic and you'll understand everyone's point of view... or at least you should. Seriously speaking on the topic you've brought up, I do know that many pros are always looking over replays when they practice. If you think they've never had a thought in the back of their mind that some1 may be map hacking you'd be silly. This is what they're looking for a lot of the times in addition to what went wrong on their end and how to improve. The thing is, almost all of them simply don't find evidence and thus don't make flamboyant claims... They're open to the info, as Snute was. But unless it can be proven... don't be silly -_-
Uhh....Yes, there are production and map hacks...d3scene is a very popular site for them.
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On April 05 2017 01:05 Ansibled wrote:
I don't understand the clip.
Avilo was being contained by a terran with some vikings & a raven at his ramp.
Avilo had a starport at his ramp.
Avilo alleges that the person he was playing against had a production hack (allowed him to see when things were being built / finishing), and used that to know when a viking was going to come out 2x, and flew forward and sniped it.
Other people in the thread are alleging that someone of a GM caliber would probably know how long a viking takes to build, and be able to guesitmate / track when it would theoretically pop out, and try to move forward a smidge to snipe it.
Then there are a lot of people in here saying they don't believe avilo because he's avilo and has called too many other people hackers (who weren't actually hacking), effectively saying they wouldn't believe him unless it was wildly overwhelming proof, which avilo believes this to be, but others do not.
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Canada13389 Posts
Do hacks exist?
Probably, you would need to have your head in the sand to assume they didn't (every popular game has a hack lets be real here)
Should we listen to avilo telling this to us?
Sure why not.
Should we listen to avilo make claims about any specific player?
I'm sorry but the answer is to this is generally no. Avilo has cried wolf far too many times that the bar to actually consider any of his hacking claims as being valid is set so very very high now.
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I tuned in to Avilo's stream once. After 5 min, Avilo had already accused his opponent of maphacking based on nothing. While I'm not really into watching whiny low skill players, I do find Avilo's crazy victory ceremonies funny.
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On April 04 2017 22:31 Liquid`Drone wrote:
what the hell dude? You've played RTS games for more than a decade and the thought that someone has a decent internal clock capable of understanding how long a production cycle lasts is beyond your comprehension? That clip you posted isn't even remotely close to being proof of anything other than your own glaringly obvious lacking understanding of the one thing in life you are supposed to be best at.
Like, in brood war, zvt, I quite frequently fly in a pair of scourge towards their starport right around the time when I estimate that the first vessel is going to complete. I'm usually wrong by enough seconds that marines end up picking off the scourge. But every now and then, I fly in the scourge, and the vessel pops out. It's certainly never hack - but if you only watch the games where I get it right, boy would it look suspicious. You see one example of something significantly less suspicious than that, and conclude maphack. It's ridiculous.
I like your scourge analogy, but his fundamental lack of comprehension is so shocking that your scourge analogy may be too high level for him to comprehend.
The fact is, any player that was decent at Brood War or any RTS, would have that internal clock. This timing doesn't even extend to scourge/vessel, which in my mind, requires a much, much deeper understanding of the game because timings can be relatively fluid (assuming early battles, differing builds, etc.) Do you check your main roughly every 15 seconds to see if your worker has finished? Do you check to see your upgrade timing at roughly 50% and 90% completion before you push out with your army? How many times have you drawn a box over a building right when something is about to pop (e.g. mutalisks)? What about boxing over the egg of your first defiler? I'm sure you've done this countless of times.
How someone can play hours a day and is still unable to have this internal clock is shocking. To constantly call people "bad" at the game when this twitch clip is posted as proof of a production tab hack is sad.
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On April 04 2017 22:08 -Kyo- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 22:06 jimminy_kriket wrote:
@kyo
How do you know there are no production tab hacks? What about maphack? I've sent this to multiple people in PM's but ... -_-;; How about... Checking the hacking websites........?? edit: also the report link for the OP is broken; unless it just bugged out after I sent the pastebin. If any mod wants the info feel free to msg me, tho i've sent some of it to lichter already (no clue if he checked it)
Man.. just because you can't find a cheat from public sites means it doesn't exist?
If the game relays you realtime info about things you can't see, for example what the opponent is producing, it's completely trivial to sniff the packets (I highly doubt they are encrypted, they aren't in csgo for example) and even make your own overlay for it. You can run it on a different computer even, so there's 0.00000% chance any kind of anticheat can detect that.
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On April 04 2017 22:21 Uncas23 wrote:
The person starting this thread doesn't matter, only the topic.
That isn't true at all. Let's say Donald Trump's wife talks about how we need to rein in cyberbullying. That reeks of hypocrisy and can't be taken seriously. Oh wait that happened...
But anyway, I've watched Avilo's stream a few times, and he regularly accuses random people of map hacking, particularly Winter, one of my favorite streamers. I understand a lot of SC2 people don't like Winter and don't think he is good, but it brings out his special rage when he loses to Winter.
And it is really hard to take someone seriously when they are so disconnected from reality. Avilo is the last person who should be speaking about map hacking because his claims are incredibly dishonest and he can't present them in an effective manner.
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You didn't get banned for calling out a hacker, Blizzard responded reasonably to your concerns in the moment... especially given the way that everybody who beats you is hacking. You got banned for acting like a child.
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On April 04 2017 20:29 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Yes we can talk about it...
1) I am convinced there are hacks for the present iteration of SC2.
2) My estimation (by time spent on the ladder) is that the percentage of players hacking in the US region is no larger than 1% of the total players in the region. I lived in Korea for most of HoTS and I estimate the percentage hacking there was 0.1 %. EU I have no idea...
3) The example you show could be coincidence, it could be hacks - this is not conclusive evidence.
WHICH leads to...
4) Avilo here is what the community, the casters, players, the tournament admins and the fans of the game in general, need from you to ever truly acknowledge and/or trust a single word you post or say:
A) "I avilo, have accused incorrectly too many players of hacking."
B) "I avilo, have too often in the past refused to own up to my own mistakes and failures."
C) "I avilo, have never been able to compete at the highest levels in SC2 and am predictable in my playstyle. " (This is important as 1 - the vast majority of players you have accused of hacking in the past, KNOW HOW YOU PLAY. 2 - Your lack of humility in stating your arguments is detrimental to the credibility of your stance).
D) "I avilo, have been disrespectful towards others players and dismissed their skills at the game too often."
E) "I avilo, will in the future try to be more honest and respectful. I will aim to conduct myself in a more adult manner with the community, the casters, the tournament admins and the fans of the game in general."
F) "I avilo, will stop crying wolf."
G) "I avilo am not special and thus am subject to the same rules and guidelines as participants in any given tournament."
Until you testify to this or something like it, no one of any rational/impartial standing will ever take you seriously. It is sad to see you throw away what potential you might have because you cannot (have not so far) owned up to this.
I am sorry, this is just the truth.
Good luck and Have Fun.
what a worthless post...
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This is your 100% evidence? Anyone that keeps track of time can do that. Are Stats, Zest and basically every Protoss that is high level a hacker because he can remember the trigger-timers of the widowmine? Yes there are maphackers, pretty sure about it but maphack or any sorts of that assist won't make you good at the game if you are not decent to begin with.
Mechanics pretty much overrule the startegy/micro part. Its just that you behave like a dumb person and you get treated as such. If Snute in a tournament would call out a hacker after checking the game / replays and with enough evidence no one would just disregard it. Hell I wouldnt even disregard you calling out someone but the issue is that you call out anyone with little to no evidence.
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I would help if people would just ignore threads like this where the writer is just trying to promote his own name.
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As stated in an earlier post, it should not matter who started the thread. Disregarding the argument because avilo is the author is informal fallacy, it is ad hominem. avilo may have accused innocent people of cheating. That is a separate issue. This topic is about the community needing to talk about cheating.
Here comes my adapted version of the original post (keeping the essentials, taking the rest away). My changes are in [brackets].
On April 04 2017 14:48 a person, doesn't matter who, wrote:
Hi guys, it's about time the community has a discussion about this and gets a dialogue going with Blizzard about it as well.
For one reason or another it became taboo to talk about hackers or even fathom that they exist still on StarCraft 2. This needs to change.
[this paragraph is irrelevant to the topic]
[mostly irrelevant stuff got cut here] Back in Brood War it was the opposite - people called out hackers all the time and there were even many known Brood War players that people thought would never EVER hack that got caught hacking.
An example of [disregarding the issue of hacking] is Pig during the most recent WCS qualifiers making claims that there are no maphacks, as well as personalities in the scene like Nathanias that keep perpetuating that there are no working maphacks for SC2 which is honestly not the case.
Can we get a dialogue going in the community here and with Blizzard [don't make ad hominem arguments]? Honestly keeping the integrity of SC2 tourneys and ladder is pretty important for the game to stay alive and grow more.
[an example that isn't needed, no matter if accurate or not]
Is this going to be addressed by Blizzard at all? Are we all going to pretend it's not going on for even longer? Does it take the Korean SC2 community pro players complaining about it again for anything to be done about it?
[a statement I don't know if true or not, but it isn't necessary for this post]
As a community there needs to be a discussion about this. No more pretending it's not going on, and that it's become more prevalent.
This is a bit off topic, but I feel like this should be made clear.
On April 04 2017 14:48 avilo wrote:
People may have most recently seen the drama with me playing versus Nero/Retribution/Spectrum + whatever other aliases he goes by in WCS, and how i ended up getting banned and not allowed another chance at the same qualifier, despite me being the one that is screwed over by the maphacker.
The rules for WCS 2017 can be found through this link.
Chapter 6, paragraph 6.2 deals with cheating. That is not the reason avilo got banned.
Chapter 6, paragraph 6.1 deals with behaviour. This is a separate rule. To my understanding, avilo broke 6.1 (a):
"Players must at all times observe the highest standards of personal integrity and good
sportsmanship. Players are required to behave in a professional and sportsmanlike manner in their
interactions with other competitors, WCS organizers and members of the administration team, the
media, sponsors and fans."
Sorry that I don't add anything to the discussion. I just want the thread to actually be about the thread title.
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there are MOST DEFINITELY STILL MAPHACKERS. played against one the other day. zerg that had no vision of any of my structures the entire game, never used his overlords to scout, and had his units in position to defend my pushes every time
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On April 05 2017 04:08 LtCalley wrote:
there are MOST DEFINITELY STILL MAPHACKERS. played against one the other day. zerg that had no vision of any of my structures the entire game, never used his overlords to scout, and had his units in position to defend my pushes every time
post reps gogo for all we know you could be another avilo
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
The person in the clip above is 100% utilizing a production tab hack + maphack to do what he did in the clip.
No, he's not 100%. That is minor circumstantial evidence at best and far more suspicious things happen all of the time when two legit high level players play each other.
You should edit out that hackusation and go apologise to that guy
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Germany25657 Posts
Yes hacks are bad. You accusing every living person on this planet of being a hacker is also bad.
I don't get the point of this thread. If you see a hacker report him?
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EPT
