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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On April 11 2007 08:37 Sadist wrote: he makes jokes like this all the time what the fuck are you talking about that he doesnt have the credibility? Yeah, but he's not funny. | ||
Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
Fucking sensitive fucks. | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH CREDIBLITY IM NOT SAYING HES FUNNY BECAUSE QUITE FRANKLY IMUS SUCKS AND ISNT FUNNY BUT THIS IDEA OF RACISM IS FUCKING PLAYED OUT AND RETARDED | ||
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
On April 11 2007 08:49 Sadist wrote: WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH CREDIBLITY IM NOT SAYING HES FUNNY BECAUSE QUITE FRANKLY IMUS SUCKS AND ISNT FUNNY BUT THIS IDEA OF RACISM IS FUCKING PLAYED OUT AND RETARDED Very true, but when dealing with the lower intelligence races you must understand that they can't comprehend how fucking dumb they are being so you just gotta go with the flow and respect what they don't want to hear. Or else they might steal your shit. Ever notice asian people never care about racial jokes targetted at them? | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On April 11 2007 08:49 Sadist wrote: WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH CREDIBLITY IM NOT SAYING HES FUNNY BECAUSE QUITE FRANKLY IMUS SUCKS AND ISNT FUNNY BUT THIS IDEA OF RACISM IS FUCKING PLAYED OUT AND RETARDED There are two reasons racist jokes are funny. Either you really are racist, or you are in an environment where you fully appreciate that no one is racist, where you can sort of let your inhibitions down and tell jokes that you ordinarily would never tell. Don Imus meant for his comment to be funny. That meant either he was preaching to the racist crowd out there, or he somehow thought that everyone knew he wasn't a racist and no one would get offended by it, knowing he's just kidding. The latter is obviously false. He doesn't have that kind of credibility because historically he's never been really funny and people have been offended more than they have laughed. He's a humor radio talk show host to be sure, but he's had so many incidents of actually being racist without making jokes that it's simply impossible to laugh at him anymore without wondering if he really believes that. I make racist/sexist/dead baby jokes with my friends, but only fully aware that none of us are racist, sexist, or willing to consume aborted fetuses. But if any of them actually suspected that I was a hardcore racist, then all of a sudden my jokes aren't funny any more, and they're just patently offensive without the humor to ameliorate it. Imus and his crew, Charles McCord and Bernard McGuirk, have been accused of racism, misogyny, and homophobia. Imus referred to sports columnist Bill Rhoden as a "New York Times quota hire" and PBS anchor Gwen Ifill as a "cleaning lady". Imus has repeatedly referred to Arabs as "ragheads." He has berated many female newsreaders, most recently Contessa Brewer, which caused her to leave the show. After she left the show, Imus went on a tirade, saying, “With that fat ass she’s got, she wouldn’t be one of ‘em,” (a beautiful woman). Imus said on the air, "That skank has to spend three hours with makeup in the morning." The tirade was also tied to comments that were overheard of Contessa's calling Imus “a cantankerous old fool” at a dinner in a restaurant in 2005, when she was still newsreader. Given that even he himself admits that their being offended is justified, I don't see how you can argue that the women's basketball team is irrational in being angry at him. | ||
CTStalker
Canada9720 Posts
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Orlandu
China2450 Posts
I realize that's a bit of an idealistic thought, but the point is that people only take offense (in terms of race) because they feel that they should and they have these preconceived notions that they should feel offended by certain things and so they look for and attach a racial connotation to things that in reality really don't have anything to do with race, certain members of society just try to transform them into such. The problem simply comes from people attaching their own meanings and interpretations to things that are said. While someone may have a right to feel offended by something, no matter what it is, that doesn't mean that they SHOULD feel offended or that there was a logical reason to feel that way. That doesn't take away from the fact that they do, but that sure as hell doesn't give them or anyone else the right to brand a comment or a person as racist, at least until there is some kind of direct reference to race or color. Which again, there was not in this case no matter how you want to look at the situation. You can argue that he meant it in such a way, and that might be true, but the nature of his comment didn't imply such. I don't know anything about Imus, so maybe he is an asshole and maybe he is racist, I don't know. All I'm saying is, things that like this shouldn't be an issue because quite honestly, it's all about perception. And clearly, some people seemed to have a biased perception of the world around them. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
On April 11 2007 09:40 Orlandu wrote: Jokes like those only seem racist if you perceive them to be racist (because of the undeniable fact that there was no direct statement of race or color. I don't care who you are, how smart you are, or how offended you are you simply cannot deny that). If people forgot that there was such a thing as differing races, there wouldn't be any problem to begin with... wait what? "nappy headed hoes" is only racist if you perceive it to be racist because theres no direct statement of race or color? so if i say "hey, look at that slanty eyed buck toothed bunch of nerds" that's also only racist if you perceive it to be because there's no statement of color? in both cases you don't have to look very hard to see where the comment is directed, its not like there are a dozen different ways to interpret the statements. | ||
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Orlandu
China2450 Posts
You could argue that your second remark holds a bit more of a racial connotation to it because you're describing an almost exclusive racial attribute, which indirectly refers to a race, but again, in it's own nature it isn't necessarily a racial comment. It would require a lot more care in using, though. Nappy headed and hos do not hold any racially exclusive attributes. That should be pretty simple to understand. And don't try to change the argument. The direction of the statement opens up a whole world of perceptions for people to come up with that I'm not going to get into. The argument at hand is whether or not a statement in itself is racist. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
"nappy headed" does not hold any racially exclusive attributes? are you kidding? | ||
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TheosEx
United States894 Posts
On April 11 2007 08:56 Rekrul wrote: Very true, but when dealing with the lower intelligence races you must understand that they can't comprehend how fucking dumb they are being so you just gotta go with the flow and respect what they don't want to hear. Or else they might steal your shit. Ever notice asian people never care about racial jokes targetted at them? Lol... "This thread" in a nutshell | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source nappy (adj.) "downy," 1499, from nap (n.). Meaning "fuzzy, kinky," used in colloquial or derogatory ref. to the hair of black people, is from 1950. that's not "racially exclusive" enough for you? | ||
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Tadzio
3340 Posts
On April 11 2007 06:48 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: "blah blah blah I read the dictionary better than you!" American Heritage Dictionary (additional emphasis mine) rac·ism (rā'sĭz'əm) n. 1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race. I don't think I'm out of line saying these three words (racism, discrimination, prejudice) are practically synonyms when two of them are used to directly define the third. You caught me on stereotype, though. Its only similar in meaning to prejudice ("2. any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable"). Your nit-picking skill must be armed with a razor's edge. Not that this has much to do with Imus' remark... it was just a way to tackle Sadist's claim that "racism isn't racism, its racial!" Which, on the face of it, is so silly I dunno why I'm dedicating so many keystrokes to the defense of my position (that racism is racism). So, I'm going to try and make this the last post I make in this thread on the meaning of words. | ||
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TheosEx
United States894 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On April 11 2007 10:00 Tadzio00 wrote: American Heritage Dictionary (additional emphasis mine) rac·ism (rā'sĭz'əm) n. 1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. 2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race. I don't think I'm out of line saying these three words (racism, discrimination, prejudice) are practically synonyms when two of them are used to directly define the third. You caught me on stereotype, though. Its only similar in meaning to prejudice ("2. any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable"). Your nit-picking skill must be armed with a razor's edge. Not that this has much to do with Imus' remark... it was just a way to tackle Sadist's claim that "racism isn't racism, its racial!" Which, on the face of it, is so silly I dunno why I'm dedicating so many keystrokes to the defense of my position (that racism is racism). So, I'm going to try and make this the last post I make in this thread on the meaning of words. racial to me has to do with stereotyping, racism is deals with discrimination oppression and prejudice. Stereotyping has nothing to do with any of that if you take it for what its worth, a stereotype. Racial jokes can be funny if done the right way, and there IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RACIAL AND RACIST for christ sakes. Nowhere in the definition of racism does it say stereotyping. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36402 Posts
On April 11 2007 10:02 TheosEx wrote: Good job Hot_bid, you picked the definition all the way at the bottom of the page! the point is that its there and everyone knows the connotation, just like when i say "slanty eyed" people know who i mean to insult | ||
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Tadzio
3340 Posts
On April 11 2007 09:52 Orlandu wrote: Nappy headed hos can be used in a lot of ways. It's your fault if you think it's directly referring to black people. Well, considering that he was talking about a group of black basketball players, I don't think it's a huge leap in logic to think Imus was directly referring to black people... since he was. | ||
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draeger
United States3256 Posts
On April 11 2007 06:48 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote: How many times has a black, or hispanic, or any non-white comedian made a joke about white people? Dave Chappelle did it all the fucking time (and it was hilarious). Chris Rock makes fun of white people all the time, should I get all up in arms because he said something negative about white people, and made a joke about a stereotype? And I couldn't really let that whole "look up those words, they're practically synonyms" thing slide. Stereotype: 1. A conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified conception, opinion, or image. 2. A too-simple and therefore distorted image of a group. Predjudice: a. An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts. b. A preconceived preference or idea. 3. Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion. Racism: 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others. 3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races. Discrimination: treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit They are actually pretty far from being "synonyms." Especially the word stereotype, and discrimination and racism. Prejudice is based on a stereotype. Racism isn't a stereotype, it's clearly not defined as such. Prejudice and racism are close, but prejudice can mean several things, and in the instance of it being hatred racism is a form of prejudice, but they aren't always the same thing. Anyhow, my point is, to the guy telling Sadist to pull out a dictionary, maybe you should pull the dictionary out before you tell other people to. Then again, maybe my comprehension of the English language is at an all time low, and I'm having difficulty understanding what those definitions are saying. (I'm not, they're clearly different, and used in much different ways, it's all about the context in which they are used, just as it is with any word.) I don't get offended by minorities making white jokes. I find it funny usually or if I don't, I tend to just ignore it. On the other hand, if someone of the majority race/color/religion or whatnot takes a small potshot at a minority, they get buried in lawsuits, threats, and racist banter. It's not that I get offended, but I think it's pretty bullshit and I'd be willing to start getting offended just to teach people how retarded it is to take those kind of comments the way they have been taken lately. | ||
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TheosEx
United States894 Posts
Like they're the only group of people in this whole world that has ever been used as slaves and degraded. I understand that US customs basically make it more likely to happen, but seriously... get over it. | ||
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