EPTLegal Brood War Keyboard - Page 2
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Piste
6167 Posts
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Biolunar
Germany224 Posts
On January 13 2016 20:04 Endymion wrote: except then you would be editing the keyboard input, which would require setup on every pc that you used.. unless you had a keyboard that had software on it, but i'm pretty sure those are banned because of potential macros Yes it would need setup for every PC because you are doing something that BW is not made for. | ||
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
On January 13 2016 11:10 cpt.ahab wrote: I suppose this is close to pointless now but I'm wondering if the keyboard I use would be allowed in professional play and or proper etiquette on iCCup/Fish. All the keys on it are the same as a regular keyboard but the caps lock is a control key (via hardware). All the posts I found so far deal with software when it comes to remapping (and that being illegal/frowned upon). It seems to me, there are some varying answers posted on your Question. So allow me to give you an "official" reply. Yes, you may play with that keyboard according to the current ICCup ladder rules. Let me quote the relevant paragraph: 4. Hacks and Third Party Tools 4.1 It's forbidden to use any software that gives any advantage over other players, all hacks included 4.2 Third party tools such as DoxStar, Obs Mode or APM Live are allowed at own risk. Administration recommend not to use them. Reports to be refunded for issues derivative by using third party tools like mca64Launcher will be denied from the Laddder Rules ICCup does not to assess your keyboard as such an illegitimate advantage. Reasoning: with the existence of different regional BW versions (english, polish, spanish, german etc) there's already plenty of ways of having an alternate keyboard setup to the standard english version. Under this logic, your keyboard is fine. Thanks for asking and props to your displayed intention of playing the fair game! | ||
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TelecoM
United States10666 Posts
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BobMcJohnson
France2916 Posts
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb964665.aspx Dunno to which extent it can be allowed/detected, since it's basically the same as setting your keyboard layout to qwertz/azerty/whatever other language specific layouts exist in the windows control panel, except you can create your own layout from scratch. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
I don't think gamer keyboards were popular if they were a thing at all in those days. The foreign scene is not competitive enough these days for there to be a large consensus that it's bullshit and unfair. The kind of people who would care are people who practice all the time and don't want you to have an edge because of something outside the game (or people who enjoy watching those players), and there's very few of those now. So do what you want, but it's obviously inherently unfair. It's certainly not normal for people to own and use gamer keyboards or alternate hotkeys in BW, just a few people do it quietly because they want to hotkey their nexus on 3 and think the p key is too awkward to hit (0p9p8p so hard). | ||
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cpt.ahab
United States17 Posts
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Nabe
51 Posts
Back on topic, I guess it's possible that KeSPA would give you a hard time about it but they are anal about everything. Realistically it's not a big advantage if any at all, because in exchange you are giving up your ability to palm the control key (even if very few players utilize it.) Also I'm going to go ahead and say it's unlikely you'll be playing in any major offline tournaments or have anything to do with KeSPA so... It's up to however you feel about it. Also for reference the standard keyboard for pros for many years was the Qsenn DT-35. Technically not a standard Korean ANSI layout. I mean how technical should you be what actually gives an advantage? Playing on a Razer or something? It's non standard and makes hitting control easier. Taking certain caps off? Custom caps? Mechanical vs rubber dome? PS/2 vs USB? Repeat rates? You can argue that all of this and more gives an advantage yet KeSPA has no problems with it. | ||
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Probemicro
3708 Posts
On January 14 2016 12:10 Nabe wrote: I think some of you are confused. The caps control switch isn't a gamer layout, it's mostly seen on higher end keyboards that are largely intended for coding. something like this realforce 87U tenkeyless I highly doubt kespa or wcg or anyone would disallow such keyboards otherwise they would disallow things like dvorak etc which would be discriminating. in athletics/sports its similar, you can use pretty much use any shoes/boots as allowed by sponsors. But doping (the equivalent of using macros/whatever software hacks in esports) is obviously banned and non-justifiable | ||
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cpt.ahab
United States17 Posts
On January 14 2016 12:21 Probemicro wrote: something like this realforce 87U tenkeyless I highly doubt kespa or wcg or anyone would disallow such keyboards otherwise they would disallow things like dvorak etc which would be discriminating. Yes they probably would allow that or the choc mini but may have had a rule stating you can't set the control key to the caps lock via the dipswitch or for choc mini via a key combination. | ||
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Biolunar
Germany224 Posts
On January 14 2016 11:00 cpt.ahab wrote: Again, this thread is not about alternate hot keys or remapping keys (there are many posts on here about that). It's about keyboards with physical layouts that are different. The control key also isn't really a hot key. Are we equating a keyboard that has the control key in the caps lock place as the same thing as changing hotkeys? Sounds like a fair argument. Actually it is you who does not understand. If your OS is treating Ctrl as CapsLock and vice versa, how do you know wich key is which? The imprint on the keyboard? There are keyboards withouth any imprints. On those, how do you know which key is which? You don’t. Only the OS knows. You can tell your OS to treat Ctrl as ‘f’ and ‘f’ as Ctrl. Now you can type f by pressing Ctrl and hotkey your units by pressing f+1. It’s the bloody same as if the physical keys are swapped. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
On January 14 2016 20:02 Biolunar wrote: Actually it is you who does not understand. If your OS is treating Ctrl as CapsLock and vice versa, how do you know wich key is which? The imprint on the keyboard? There are keyboards withouth any imprints. On those, how do you know which key is which? You don’t. Only the OS knows. You can tell your OS to treat Ctrl as ‘f’ and ‘f’ as Ctrl. Now you can type f by pressing Ctrl and hotkey your units by pressing f+1. It’s the bloody same as if the physical keys are swapped. I assumed he was talking about keyboards where the physical layout is different, like those ergonomic wave keyboards but somehow for games (I vaguely recall these specialized keyboards with an extra section just for games). But he also thinks I don't know what he's saying, I guess, so maybe he should just post a picture or link to the keyboards he wants to use and make everyone's lives simpler. But really, I never saw a professional BW match where the player used a keyboard that looked like anything other than the stock standard. Like no pro gamers were using those special gamer foot buttons to help them play with their hands and their feet, even though setting foot pedals to f2-f4 would be super useful and I'm sure somebody thought about it. You could get real creative and make people buy stuff to be on an even level, or you could just use stock standard stuff and focus on the beauty of the game itself, without going crazy over peripherals and consumerism. | ||
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
On January 13 2016 16:46 Jealous wrote: Well, even back during KeSPA BW era (which wasn't too long ago, last Proleague season was a hybrid SC2/BW league in 2011 if I recall correctly) yes, and it ended in the autumn of 2012, as did the last OSL | ||
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Nabe
51 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://hbfs.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/happy-hacking-keyboard.jpg) Would you consider it advantageous? It's still considered US ANSI. Straight out of the box it works as the top of the keys are labeled no modifications to the keyboard or OS required. Also just to clear things up OP's keyboard looks no different to any other, no keys are missing, no weird shape, or non standard size anything. This is becoming a more and more popular feature over the last ~two years. I certainly never heard of it, but again, was there any controversy when the first mechs, or optical mice started showing up? There's no question they were significantly better than the average gear for the time. I just kind of feel if anyone can buy one (this is offered on at least 10 keyboards from well known companies) and it's not MASSIVELY advantageous KeSPA wouldn't have much to say. | ||
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cpt.ahab
United States17 Posts
On January 14 2016 20:02 Biolunar wrote: Actually it is you who does not understand. If your OS is treating Ctrl as CapsLock and vice versa, how do you know wich key is which? The imprint on the keyboard? There are keyboards withouth any imprints. On those, how do you know which key is which? You don’t. Only the OS knows. You can tell your OS to treat Ctrl as ‘f’ and ‘f’ as Ctrl. Now you can type f by pressing Ctrl and hotkey your units by pressing f+1. It’s the bloody same as if the physical keys are swapped. I'll make this short and easy. One is via software (what you're describing) and the other via hardware. It sounds like you could possibly be stating the argument I wrote earlier, that having a keyboard with a key that is in another place than a standard US key layout (the physical keys come stock, in different places) should be treated the same as swapping keys via software (OS). | ||
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cpt.ahab
United States17 Posts
But he also thinks I don't know what he's saying, I guess, so maybe he should just post a picture or link to the keyboards he wants to use and make everyone's lives simpler. Probemicro has posted a link already to a type of keyboard I'm talking about. | ||
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Biolunar
Germany224 Posts
On January 15 2016 00:36 cpt.ahab wrote: I'll make this short and easy. One is via software (what you're describing) and the other via hardware. It sounds like you could possibly be stating the argument I wrote earlier, that having a keyboard with a key that is in another place than a standard US key layout (the physical keys come stock, in different places) should be treated the same as swapping keys via software (OS). Okay, I’ll try this one more time: It does not matter where the hardware key is located. How do you know you actually pressed Ctrl when you pressed that key in the picture? Answer me that. Bonus question: What does this idea of “Ctrl” even mean? | ||
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cpt.ahab
United States17 Posts
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
On January 15 2016 04:33 cpt.ahab wrote: Please lock this thread. The answer is, that there is no answer, do what you feel is fair. well different users will have different opnions on ettiquette in the game. That's why i replied quaoting the ICCup rule set. I'd go by that if i were you. :> | ||
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cpt.ahab
United States17 Posts
On January 15 2016 08:22 Cele wrote: well different users will have different opnions on ettiquette in the game. That's why i replied quaoting the ICCup rule set. I'd go by that if i were you. :> Yes, yours was the best post on the subject. Seems like it's no big deal and it sure as hell doesn't make me a better player, I can't stay D+ even. It just allows me to be able to play at all I'd say  | ||
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