EPTLegal Brood War Keyboard
| Forum Index > Closed |
|
cpt.ahab
United States17 Posts
| ||
|
Probemicro
3708 Posts
software modifications/macro/scripts/hotkey changer are always illegal | ||
|
Mutaller
United States1049 Posts
Fwi other language versions of starcraft have different hotkeys, if that is something you want to try. | ||
|
cpt.ahab
United States17 Posts
| ||
|
Probemicro
3708 Posts
On January 13 2016 12:03 reps)squishy wrote: Servers cannot tell if you are using remapped keys for example switching m to t or something like that. They may detect modified mpq files (modding starcraft hotkeys themselves.) I am all for remapping hotkeys 1 keystroke 1 action is perfectly legit. But having macros where 1 keystroke equal more than one action is down right cheating. The only time I would support someone using a macros is if they are physically handicapped. Fwi other language versions of starcraft have different hotkeys, if that is something you want to try. yeah remapped keys cannot really be detected, but they are still ruled as illegal anyway (in ladder and almost all actual tourneys). At the amateur level I don't think anyone cares much about a couple of swapped hotkeys unless you out yourself. and pros will still beat you anyway. But macro/scripts is real downright bad. Most official big tourneys also enforce the use of English version BW if im not mistaken. | ||
|
Jealous
10107 Posts
On January 13 2016 12:24 Probemicro wrote: yeah remapped keys cannot really be detected, but they are still ruled as illegal anyway (in ladder and almost all actual tourneys). At the amateur level I don't think anyone cares much about a couple of swapped hotkeys unless you out yourself. and pros will still beat you anyway. But macro/scripts is real downright bad. Most official big tourneys also enforce the use of English version BW if im not mistaken. This. This is everything you need to know the subject. TL;DR: 1. No one will know if you remap shortcut keys. 2. But, it IS "illegal." 3. So are macros, and macros CAN be detected if someone is putting in the effort, and I'm guessing it can get you banned from ICCup but not Fish or Battle.net servers. | ||
|
cpt.ahab
United States17 Posts
| ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19208 Posts
 Happy BW-ing! | ||
|
cpt.ahab
United States17 Posts
On January 13 2016 13:35 BisuDagger wrote: I don't have the right answer but I did fix your title! Happy BW-ing!Thanks | ||
|
Jealous
10107 Posts
On January 13 2016 13:08 cpt.ahab wrote: None of that helps, since I didn't ask about macros or remapped keys, I asked about hardware, specifically keyboards with different key layouts. Thanks for some type of answer though. We all know macro etc etc is illegal. My apologies. The way I see it, a different keyboard is no different from alternate hotkey setup. There have undoubtedly been players who played BW with Dvorak, however, and I have never heard of any penalties for it. What I'm trying to say is, if it doesn't give you a significant advantage over regular users, I don't think it's amoral. As this has never to my knowledge come up in true competitive play, I don't think that you would get banned from a server for it, but it is unlikely that they would be able to tell anyway, similar to remapping. | ||
|
cpt.ahab
United States17 Posts
On January 13 2016 14:28 Jealous wrote: The way I see it, a different keyboard is no different from alternate hotkey setup. I suppose we would need somebody that was once in the BW Korean professional world to really answer the question, but I believe what you said here makes the most sense. QWERTY keyboard, standard layout. I don't tThink that you would get banned from a server for it, but it is unlikely that they would be able to tell anyway, similar to remapping. I'm not worried of getting banned, I just want to have the playing field level, and wanted to see what the rules (if any) regarding keyboard hardware were. Sure, this minor of a thing won't help me vs. someone that's better than me anyway, but I'd still like to play by the rules if there are any on this subject. | ||
|
Jealous
10107 Posts
On January 13 2016 15:08 cpt.ahab wrote: I suppose we would need somebody that was once in the BW Korean professional world to really answer the question, but I believe what you said here makes the most sense. QWERTY keyboard, standard layout. I'm not worried of getting banned, I just want to have the playing field level, and wanted to see what the rules (if any) regarding keyboard hardware were. Sure, this minor of a thing won't help me vs. someone that's better than me anyway, but I'd still like to play by the rules if there are any on this subject. That's not necessarily true, because I doubt that it ever came up in the "BW Korean professional world" However, KeSPA, which is the governing body of the aforementioned world, at one point instituted a stringent ban on how you can use your keyboard to surrender or ask for a pause in the game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/92917-news-kespa-changes-ppp-rule I imagine that with an organization as controlling as KeSPA, there were no alternate keyboard layouts allowed. I am willing to bet that none have ever been used, in any case. It may not have ever been explicitly stated, but my Korean google-fu is lacking and if it were, it may have never been publicized. Regardless, if I were you and I was worried about fairness and equality and all that, I would just play with a standard keyboard and leave no room for confusion. If that is not a welcome option, then trust your morals. I had a similar discussion with some guy in another thread who said that he used alternate hotkeys in 1v1 on ladder that made laying mines/sieging tanks into one letter that was conveniently placed. I told him that this was an unfair advantage over other people. He more or less said he didn't care. So, in the end, it's how you feel about the situation that matters. Not even KeSPA will come knocking on your door for using alternate hotkeys. | ||
|
cpt.ahab
United States17 Posts
| ||
|
Jealous
10107 Posts
On January 13 2016 16:25 cpt.ahab wrote: Yes, I saw those strict KeSPA rules while researching this... kinda nuts. I figured they would have to have a rule on hardware as well somewhere too. There aren't too many hardware variations for keyboards besides the caps lock > control, Esc switched with some keys (I can't recall) and DVORAK / COLMAK setups. It's not like one could buy a keyboard with a regular layout and only the "Q" changed to "I" or "O". That would really seem like hardware cheating then. Anyway, I'm just rambling and trying to con my way out of having to use the regular control key. I've used a keyboard since 2007 or 2008 with the control key being where caps lock is and it's going to takes god knows how long to get used to using regular control. I always thought it had to have came up in pro BW back in the day but now that I think on it, there wasn't a keyboard back then that had the control where caps lock is AND had the f1-f10 keys as well (not one that worked on PC at least). So now that there are keyboards that have such a setup the question almost has relevance... Well, even back during KeSPA BW era (which wasn't too long ago, last Proleague season was a hybrid SC2/BW league in 2011 if I recall correctly), there were still gaming keyboards available. However, as you can note and read on forums, none of the pros used anything but a cheap clickety-clackety keyboard, forget the exact model but a quick search on TL or Google should bring it up. If there wasn't anything explicitly stated about keyboard usage, it's only because it didn't have to be. If there was, then it was clearly enforced to silent perfection. There is no reason to not use the keyboard you are used to besides any personal qualms you may have with it. If you never made this thread, no one would have ever known, nor would you have become #1 BW player because of it. Like I said, if something inside you is eating at you for using these keyboards, then switch and be at peace. If not, then fuck it. If it makes you feel any better, after 17 years of playing on and off, and more than half that much time playing 1v1 for ladder points online, I finally realized that there is a second "ctrl" key on the keyboard. More importantly, it is very pressing that I learn this key's position, because as a Protoss player I used 0 and 9 for 0p9p and therefore ctrl+0, ctrl+9. I also use 876 for early gateways, and 9 for scout before second Nexus. However, I have always used the ctrl that is on the left side of the keyboard, and my hands are not big enough to do ctrl+098 with one hand. I've been actually lifting my hand off the mouse and using it to press the number while holding Lctrl. Now that I know Rctrl exists, I have been training myself to use it for the past few days. It's a practice not dissimilar from learning how to use 1-0, f2-f4, so on and so forth. It's not too big a mountain to climb, considering the Everests you've conquered prior as a BW player ^^ | ||
|
endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
| ||
|
Scarbo
294 Posts
On January 13 2016 18:24 endy wrote: With a French keyboard it's much easier to 1a2a3a4a since A and Q are switched. Depends on the size of your hands imo. | ||
|
Endymion
United States3701 Posts
| ||
|
Biolunar
Germany224 Posts
Newsflash: No keyboard “knows” what meaning a key has. It just sends a number to the operating system (this number is called Scancode) There is no notion of where each key belongs, it’s completly up to the manufacturer. It’s the job of the OS to translate this scancode to an actual character or a meta key like ctrl or shift. It does this by using specific input layouts like qwerty, dvorak, azerty, … And the best thing is: you too can create your own input layout! Without tampering with BW files you can remap keys to fit your personal style (if I haven’t made myself clear enough: there is no need for a 3rd party program. How you do that is up to your operating system). There is one downside though: you have to chat with the keys swapped  My point is: Swapping just one key cannot be more illegal than using a different input layout. (Again: I’m not talking about the remapping of hotkeys via MPQ changes) To answer the OP: yes your weird keyboard is fine for regular play (i.e. iccup/fish). My guess is that there were no special rules for Kespa players regarding the keyboard, but if a player would have brought a strange keyboard they might have added a rule to only allow so called “standard” keyboards. | ||
|
Endymion
United States3701 Posts
On January 13 2016 19:35 Biolunar wrote: Kind of offtopic, but some people don’t know what they are talking about: Newsflash: No keyboard “knows” what meaning a key has. It just sends a number to the operating system (this number is called Scancode) There is no notion of where each key belongs, it’s completly up to the manufacturer. It’s the job of the OS to translate this scancode to an actual character or a meta key like ctrl or shift. It does this by using specific input layouts like qwerty, dvorak, azerty, … And the best thing is: you too can create your own input layout! Without tampering with BW files you can remap keys to fit your personal style (if I haven’t made myself clear enough: there is no need for a 3rd party program. How you do that is up to your operating system). There is one downside though: you have to chat with the keys swapped My point is: Swapping just one key cannot be more illegal than using a different input layout. (Again: I’m not talking about the remapping of hotkeys via MPQ changes) To answer the OP: yes your weird keyboard is fine for regular play (i.e. iccup/fish). My guess is that there were no special rules for Kespa players regarding the keyboard, but if a player would have brought a strange keyboard they might have added a rule to only allow so called “standard” keyboards. except then you would be editing the keyboard input, which would require setup on every pc that you used.. unless you had a keyboard that had software on it, but i'm pretty sure those are banned because of potential macros | ||
|
iloveav
Poland1478 Posts
On January 13 2016 12:24 Probemicro wrote: yeah remapped keys cannot really be detected, but they are still ruled as illegal anyway (in ladder and almost all actual tourneys). At the amateur level I don't think anyone cares much about a couple of swapped hotkeys unless you out yourself. and pros will still beat you anyway. But macro/scripts is real downright bad. Most official big tourneys also enforce the use of English version BW if im not mistaken. Rolf, Id be owned then. I played all my life on the Spanish version :D. | ||
| ||
