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On February 03 2017 20:09 daemir wrote:
Disc 4 set can be very strong depending on the encounter. 2 set seems very meh.
Holy priest 2 set feels strong as well with as much burst aoe as we have in Nighthold. 4 set seems kinda meh.
Disc 2 piece is useless 99% of the time, I can only see some value in it for M+, however the 4 piece is very strong, so strong that the non-existent 2-piece bonus doesn't annoy me.
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On February 04 2017 02:04 nimbim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2017 20:09 daemir wrote:
Disc 4 set can be very strong depending on the encounter. 2 set seems very meh.
Holy priest 2 set feels strong as well with as much burst aoe as we have in Nighthold. 4 set seems kinda meh. Disc 2 piece is useless 99% of the time, I can only see some value in it for M+, however the 4 piece is very strong, so strong that the non-existent 2-piece bonus doesn't annoy me.
Fire 2 piece is pretty miserable also. 4 piece is minor boost and very streaky. Its insanely underwhelming.
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With healer bonuses being pretty bad, Windwalker being a lower priority than Warriors, DPS Shamans and Hunters for strength of 4 pieces, and our raid dropping a incredibly low amount of Protector Tokens, I still have 0 tier pieces after 3 heroic clear / 3 normal clear. =|
Feels bad.
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On February 04 2017 01:36 Seuss wrote:
KP values per activity are all guesses made by the guy who put together the system. For boss kills it's 6 KP per Mythic kill, 4 for Heroic, 3 for Normal, and 2 for LFR. The weekly M+ chest is 11, M+ runs themselves are "2-5", and all other activities are generalized into 2 KP per day.
That's all well and good until you realize that M+ runs and the "other" category, the activities KP can't accurately measure or effectively ignores, account for 37% and 35% of all legendary drops respectively. When your system effectively doesn't handle the majority of cases, and arguably doesn't accurately handle the remaining minority of cases, you have a problem.
Thanks these numbers are exactly what I was looking for. I dont care how accurate the end score in this little counter is. It only tells you if you have been lucky or unlucky which seems rather irrelevant info. But if these KP values for the boss kills are true that is indeed very interesting. It would mean that LFR is rated higher than I thought so maybe I will do it from time to time if really bored.
What I would like to know regarding M+ is if points depend on number of chests and how many points you get for lower key M+ compared to higher keys. This would be very good to know for planing which kind of runs you want to do.
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On February 04 2017 03:31 Noocta wrote:
With healer bonuses being pretty bad, Windwalker being a lower priority than Warriors, DPS Shamans and Hunters for strength of 4 pieces, and our raid dropping a incredibly low amount of Protector Tokens, I still have 0 tier pieces after 3 heroic clear / 3 normal clear. =|
Feels bad.
I am kinda "lucky" in the sense that our other healers (except 1 holy priest who was absent often) dont heal that much so my numbers look really good and I get high priority, have 4 piece already.
I would easily prefer if they did better though. It is pretty annoying since I only had to take a short look at their logs and then Icy Veins to realize what they are doing wrong even if I dont know much about their class. Still not saying anything because they are guild officers and reacted sensitive to earlier suggestions. Oh well. :/
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On February 04 2017 03:52 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2017 01:36 Seuss wrote:
KP values per activity are all guesses made by the guy who put together the system. For boss kills it's 6 KP per Mythic kill, 4 for Heroic, 3 for Normal, and 2 for LFR. The weekly M+ chest is 11, M+ runs themselves are "2-5", and all other activities are generalized into 2 KP per day.
That's all well and good until you realize that M+ runs and the "other" category, the activities KP can't accurately measure or effectively ignores, account for 37% and 35% of all legendary drops respectively. When your system effectively doesn't handle the majority of cases, and arguably doesn't accurately handle the remaining minority of cases, you have a problem. Thanks these numbers are exactly what I was looking for. I dont care how accurate the end score in this little counter is. It only tells you if you have been lucky or unlucky which seems rather irrelevant info. But if these KP values for the boss kills are true that is indeed very interesting. It would mean that LFR is rated higher than I thought so maybe I will do it from time to time if really bored. What I would like to know regarding M+ is if points depend on number of chests and how many points you get for lower key M+ compared to higher keys. This would be very good to know for planing which kind of runs you want to do.
But thats the whole point, we don't know those KP values and the ones he has (made up) are extremely unreliable because he is not accounting for a significant portion in M+
The entire dataset has so many gaps and inconsistencies that its basically meaningless. You'll get an equally reliable answer by asking your mother.
To show an example. My character 'should have' 2 legendaries. I got 4 over the course of 2 months despite barely touching M+ so my case is even more accurate then many would be who actually grind M+.
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
Those gains and even raw numbers are not particularly accurate but it's a decent indication. I'm simming a 10.5% gain in this spec for havoc 2p+4p while it says 7% there because of a combination of simc version, apl, bugs that have been fixed (or partially fixed in the case of havoc 2piece), playstyle and newly-optimal talents with the sets taken into account. SimC is not in a good state right around patch releases and 7.1.5 + nighthold was one of the more chaotic ones
On February 04 2017 00:55 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2017 09:07 Cyro wrote:In short, the best available data we have right now indicates legendary drops rates are, on average, linear, but few individuals will experience it like that because variance is extremely high. 300kp is also just way too low to have any chance of being correct as an average. The average person with 6k KP doesn't have 20 legendaries, they have about 5 - that's easy to check. The only people with 10 on one character are extremely lucky, dedicated players and i have not actually seen one myself yet You may be correct that 300 is too low, but the spreadsheet would have you believe that only the luckiest of lucky people should have 5 as it stands, and almost nobody should have 6 or more. That clearly isn't the case, not by a long shot. Ultimately I'd rather rely on reports like yours than KP anyway, as KP is at best a stab in the dark with a dull knife. The KP values for activities are based on the assumption that activities which are more likely to drop legendaries have a greater effect on BLP, the values themselves are somewhat arbitrary despite that (e.g. Mythic kills are 3 times as valuable as LFR kills, despite only dropping legendaries 80% more often), and the most important activities can't even be accurately measured (Mythic+, WQs, caches). KP is more flawed than Gearscore, and that's saying a lot.
I do agree on the KP stuff. You'll see that the majority of people with 5 or 6 have done a massive amount of content; that's why it appears to be so nonlinear. The people playing relatively casual can get 2, later 3 but most people that have done literally 10x the content have 5 or 6 legendaries rather than 20-30, that's the amount of content where you expect to get 5 rather than just being lucky.
the spreadsheet would have you believe that only the luckiest of lucky people should have 5 as it stands, and almost nobody should have 6 or more. That clearly isn't the case, not by a long shot.
There are some lucky people w/ 5-6, plus a crowd, a smallish % of the WoW population but of notable size which plays insane hours and does enough content for legendary #5, #6 to be expected even at insanely high costs relative to the early ones. Cerli has 23,500kp recorded (mostly from mythic+ runs) and 6 legendaries, for example, though a decent chunk of that was eaten by the multiplier being disabled at 4 legendaries for a while.
A fairly large group of people that i know are around 3000-8000kp, quite highly dedicated players but not farming all day every day for months; just using KP here as a vague count for the amount of PVE content done
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+ Show Spoiler +
would never see this 5 months into WOD
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On February 04 2017 05:28 Cyro wrote:---------- + Show Spoiler +would never see this 5 months into WOD
Yeah man.
We're a bunch that have played for 12 years together and since the days when most of the adventuring and travel went away, with the introduction of click-a-button-do-everything, we just never have had a long-term reason to play our mains outside raiding at all. (They tried all kind of dailies but, well, yeah)
But Legion really always has something for me to do on my main. Now, ofcourse, there's nothing that I HAVE to do outside of raiding now either BUT I feel like the difference is that most things are constantly rewarding and there's also not much dead content that feels like a total waste of time.
Besides the healing/damage increase Legendaries I am loving the game.
On the Legendary discussion:
I have played Holy Paladin for 12 long, long years and in Legion I have felt absolute crap-crap.
(We are 4 healers in our squad, two of them have had 2xBiS since early days and the other healer had 1xBiS)
If you rank the Holy Paladin Legendaries from 1-10 with 10 being worst I got 5, 8, 9 and 10 so while I was lucky with four I would LOVE to throw them all in a lake to just have 1 good one rather than 3 useless ones and one "atleast it has good stats"-legendary.
So I really hate the system.
Luckily I managed to snag my 5th Legendary last week and it was my first healing booster and the best one in my eyes so gladly I am now no longer behind my fellow healers in the reaidsquad.
But yeah, I still hate the system.
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
I hate the flaws in the aquisition system, it's been a trainwreck since day 1.
With some minor balance tweaks and reworked aquisition the system as a whole has been otherwise fun for me to play with and a solid improvement compared to not having them at all
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On February 04 2017 16:11 Anlo wrote:Yeah man. We're a bunch that have played for 12 years together and since the days when most of the adventuring and travel went away, with the introduction of click-a-button-do-everything, we just never have had a long-term reason to play our mains outside raiding at all. (They tried all kind of dailies but, well, yeah) But Legion really always has something for me to do on my main. Now, ofcourse, there's nothing that I HAVE to do outside of raiding now either BUT I feel like the difference is that most things are constantly rewarding and there's also not much dead content that feels like a total waste of time. Besides the healing/damage increase Legendaries I am loving the game. On the Legendary discussion: I have played Holy Paladin for 12 long, long years and in Legion I have felt absolute crap-crap. (We are 4 healers in our squad, two of them have had 2xBiS since early days and the other healer had 1xBiS) If you rank the Holy Paladin Legendaries from 1-10 with 10 being worst I got 5, 8, 9 and 10 so while I was lucky with four I would LOVE to throw them all in a lake to just have 1 good one rather than 3 useless ones and one "atleast it has good stats"-legendary. So I really hate the system. Luckily I managed to snag my 5th Legendary last week and it was my first healing booster and the best one in my eyes so gladly I am now no longer behind my fellow healers in the reaidsquad. But yeah, I still hate the system.
I have 1 actual DPS legendary (nerfed) 1 DPS legendary that is usless (mage gloves) and 3 legendaries that do nothing for DPS (chest, neck sephu ring). Im so fucking done tbh.. Fuck BIS, any DPS legendary I could use would be nice. Except the only ones left are all like near the best ones. Ive been pretty happy with the game so far but with this 5th leggo and sitting on Sephuz as my second best dps legendary im really fucking triggered today.
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Well, I got one throughput legendary (spriest bracer) and then 5 utility ones. Sephuz, Prydaz, Norgannon's boots, disc ring and holy ring.
Fk me right?
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
Spreading your legendaries across 3 or even 2 specs is probably a mistake
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Well, 3 of those are multispec utilities. Early expansion I was healing and swapping between specs, but neither of those legs were proper throughput either (not that disc really has one anyway).
For NH progress, I rolled into shadow as we haven't been able to recruit any since EN.
e: russians take down M gul'dan, race over.
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Yeah, saw that, hopefully there isn't any issues like Helya. Will be interesting to see how long it takes the other guilds to finally down him.
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16 ming fight, 260ish pulls. Hardest secret phase ever, new mechanics never seen in game apparently.
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Dps warrior in my guild has 9 legendaries. On the same character. Wtf.
Also, just did Court of Stars 12, 15 and 16. The keys from all 3 turned into Nelth's.
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16min fight...
Dear god I'm not looking forward to progress on him. Especially if the difficult part is the secret phase and you have to play out 10min of boring shit you mastered 50 trys ago everytime. 
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Still better than sha of fear where the difficult part is the same part you are playing for 15 minutes that keeps on getting difficult..er.
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
16 min is just too long, i don't see any reason for a fight to go over 12 minutes and it's especially bad if it's the hardest tuned fight in the tier so you're supposed to wipe 300 times on it. We went over this on Imperator 
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Anyone on EU horde that is interested and has the gear to push mythic to 20+ in general, not just this week?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/O0r0aPj.jpg)
