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[WoW] Battle for Azeroth - Page 261

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BfA Community Links:
GP : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/KKMpKPSlgd?region=EU&faction=Horde
TLEUH : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/v9x5bAF3jD?region=EU&faction=Horde
TLEUA : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/ALwgJnC5Wo?region=EU&faction=Alliance
TLNAH : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/vPrmjJxiVnJ?region=US&faction=Horde
TLNAA : https://www.worldofwarcraft.com/invite/YeZj7P0SXLn?region=US&faction=Alliance
Bnet: Bnet - https://blizzard.com/invite/amvLM0EubJv

On November 03 2016 06:57 GTR wrote:
I've created a Google Form/Spreadsheet for people to help add eachother.

Hopefully this will makes things easier for us to find people for Mythic+ runs and what not as opposed to sifting through 150+ pages of discussion.

Form
Spreadsheet

If a moderator could add this as a moderator note at the top it'd be appreciated.
xtorn
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
4060 Posts
February 01 2017 18:44 GMT
#5201
On February 01 2017 03:32 Warri wrote:
[image loading]
To add to the previous discussion about low level items :p

thats a very nice ring.
that level required though
Life - forever the Legend in my heart
daemir
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland8662 Posts
February 01 2017 18:46 GMT
#5202
Shadowpriests go insane for a pure haste ring. Our "cap" for haste is 12k+
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51596 Posts
February 01 2017 23:18 GMT
#5203
just transferred to frostmourne and i have 2 ping lol
Commentator
Stancel
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Singapore15360 Posts
February 02 2017 11:48 GMT
#5204
first ever 3rd legendary on a main-turned-alt DH which has done significantly less content than my current main, yep

and apart from the whole 'well prydaz and sephuz were buffed!!!11one' thing, how apt is it that they're 2 of the 3 legendaries I have, because class/spec specific ones don't exist eh?
ffxiv enjoyer
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20327 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-02 12:16:57
February 02 2017 12:12 GMT
#5205
A guy that recorded a bunch of legendary drops showed ~550 prydaz drops in his sample while the median legendary dropped less than 20 times, the most popular spec-specific ones (on highly popular classes w/ most people playing one particular spec) around 40 times

What's the third that you have?
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Stancel
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Singapore15360 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-02 12:45:02
February 02 2017 12:44 GMT
#5206
AOTHG, first one I ever got

my legendaries acquisition order was literally AOTHG (DH) > Sephuz (Mage) > Sephuz (Pally) > Prydaz (Rogue) > Prydaz (DH) before I finally got different ones, ending with my 3rd sephuz today (DH)

I'm just being unreasonably salty over those two legendaries, but I'd rather be stuck with different utility legendaries instead of the same shit across 4 characters
ffxiv enjoyer
nimbim
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany985 Posts
February 02 2017 12:58 GMT
#5207
Did everyone see this calc already? https://rsuurd.github.io/killpoints/
It seems pretty accurate for my chars. Note that emmisary chests aren't included in the calculation, just an arbitrary 2 killpoints per day at 110, so it won't be as accurate for alts.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20327 Posts
February 02 2017 13:10 GMT
#5208
Yeah, it's guessing or missing a ton of stuff but surprisingly accurate for having done that
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
akatama
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Romania982 Posts
February 02 2017 13:35 GMT
#5209
Well, looks like I was below average this whole time. Warrior should have had 3 by now, only has 2. Mage and Rogue should have had 2, but they have 0.

In other news, my Warlock got his second legendary: the destruction cloak, to go nicely with the Gateway legs: both are sitting in my bag since 4pc >>>>>>>>>> stat sticks.
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
February 02 2017 14:13 GMT
#5210
On February 02 2017 20:48 Stancel wrote:
first ever 3rd legendary on a main-turned-alt DH which has done significantly less content than my current main, yep

and apart from the whole 'well prydaz and sephuz were buffed!!!11one' thing, how apt is it that they're 2 of the 3 legendaries I have, because class/spec specific ones don't exist eh?

At least your class actually has legs better than Prydaz. My 2 BIS legs are multi-class legs (Prydaz / healer trinket) and I am glad to have Prydaz / Sephuz since I can not get much better anyway.
Off-season = best season
Redox
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany24794 Posts
February 02 2017 14:44 GMT
#5211
On February 02 2017 21:12 Cyro wrote:
A guy that recorded a bunch of legendary drops showed ~550 prydaz drops in his sample while the median legendary dropped less than 20 times, the most popular spec-specific ones (on highly popular classes w/ most people playing one particular spec) around 40 times

So Prydaz drops pretty much as often as you would expect.

If a single spec leg drops 20 times an all spec leg should drop 20*36 = 720 times.
Off-season = best season
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-02 16:17:51
February 02 2017 16:14 GMT
#5212
On February 02 2017 21:58 nimbim wrote:
Did everyone see this calc already? https://rsuurd.github.io/killpoints/
It seems pretty accurate for my chars. Note that emmisary chests aren't included in the calculation, just an arbitrary 2 killpoints per day at 110, so it won't be as accurate for alts.


Something very important to note, the breakpoints for legendaries on that tool are based on very bad math. Realistically every legendary takes roughly 250-300 KP to obtain (with the first being somewhat easier, more like 150-200 KP). There are no diminishing returns on legendary acquisition (not since Blizzard removed the soft cap anyway).

If you want a more detailed explanation I've spoiled some math-talk below, but that's the TL;DR.

+ Show Spoiler +
The basis for that tool comes from this MMO-C thread and the spreadsheet therein. The killpoint system itself is very interesting and only has a few minor flaws (mostly related to the difficulty of obtaining useful and accurate information from the Armory). The major problem is that the spreadsheet's calculation for the number of killpoints required per legendary is simply wrong.

The obvious, intuitive way to make the calculations would be to average the killpoints of everyone who's gone from N to N+1 legendaries. That is, sum up all the killpoints each player acquired between N and N+1, then divide by the number of said players. If you do that with available data you'll find that outside of the first legendary (which is substantially easier to obtain thanks to a hotfix by Blizzard a while back) all subsequent legendaries take roughly the same number of killpoints (the 250-300 KP I mentioned ealier).

The spreadsheet is doing two things beyond a simple average which make no mathematical sense:
  • They're including players who still only have N legendaries.
  • They're diving the resulting number by the % of all players who have reached N+1 legendaries


Including players who haven't yet reached N+1 legendaries skews the numbers. The flaw in the methodology of adding them becomes obvious if you consider potential data extremes. Imagine you have 1000 people with N legendaries, only one of whom has N+1. If the other 999 all stopped doing anything the instant they got N legendaries (i.e. the number of killpoints they've collected since N is 0) the calculation would erroneously suggest that obtaining the N+1 legendary should only take 1/1000th of the time it took the one player who has one. Simply put, only players who have actually obtained the N+1 legendary should be considered.

Dividing the resulting number by the % of all players who have reached N+1 legendaries is similarly fallacious. If this was a calculation of half-life it would make sense, but because players do not start progressing at the same time, do not progress at the same rate, and completion of progress is not the same due to RNG, it's an utterly incorrect model to use. Imagine using that calculation to try to predict how long it takes to finish an Olympic race after 1/10th of the runners had finished. If the 1/10th of the runners took 10 minutes to finish, dividing by the % of all runners would suggest that it normally takes 100 minutes. That's blatantly absurd, but it's how the calculation is being done.

Unfortunately despite the fact that the flaws in the math have been pointed out numerous times in both the MMO-C thread and on related reddit threads the author of the spreadsheet has never corrected their math, and while the work done on killpoints is novel the breakpoints provided by the spreadsheet should not be taken seriously.


Edit: Also, keep in mind the tool has problems estimating killpoints if you play multiple characters due to how the Armory conflates kills/achievements etc. Your main might be close to correct, but alts will have dramatically inflated killpoint values by virtue of everything you're doing on your main. Case in point, an alt of mine that just hit 110 the other day and hasn't done anything since supposedly has 515 kill points, while my main who I've been raiding on since EN opened has 1024.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
February 02 2017 16:54 GMT
#5213
On February 03 2017 01:14 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2017 21:58 nimbim wrote:
Did everyone see this calc already? https://rsuurd.github.io/killpoints/
It seems pretty accurate for my chars. Note that emmisary chests aren't included in the calculation, just an arbitrary 2 killpoints per day at 110, so it won't be as accurate for alts.


Something very important to note, the breakpoints for legendaries on that tool are based on very bad math. Realistically every legendary takes roughly 250-300 KP to obtain (with the first being somewhat easier, more like 150-200 KP). There are no diminishing returns on legendary acquisition (not since Blizzard removed the soft cap anyway).

If you want a more detailed explanation I've spoiled some math-talk below, but that's the TL;DR.

+ Show Spoiler +
The basis for that tool comes from this MMO-C thread and the spreadsheet therein. The killpoint system itself is very interesting and only has a few minor flaws (mostly related to the difficulty of obtaining useful and accurate information from the Armory). The major problem is that the spreadsheet's calculation for the number of killpoints required per legendary is simply wrong.

The obvious, intuitive way to make the calculations would be to average the killpoints of everyone who's gone from N to N+1 legendaries. That is, sum up all the killpoints each player acquired between N and N+1, then divide by the number of said players. If you do that with available data you'll find that outside of the first legendary (which is substantially easier to obtain thanks to a hotfix by Blizzard a while back) all subsequent legendaries take roughly the same number of killpoints (the 250-300 KP I mentioned ealier).

The spreadsheet is doing two things beyond a simple average which make no mathematical sense:
  • They're including players who still only have N legendaries.
  • They're diving the resulting number by the % of all players who have reached N+1 legendaries


Including players who haven't yet reached N+1 legendaries skews the numbers. The flaw in the methodology of adding them becomes obvious if you consider potential data extremes. Imagine you have 1000 people with N legendaries, only one of whom has N+1. If the other 999 all stopped doing anything the instant they got N legendaries (i.e. the number of killpoints they've collected since N is 0) the calculation would erroneously suggest that obtaining the N+1 legendary should only take 1/1000th of the time it took the one player who has one. Simply put, only players who have actually obtained the N+1 legendary should be considered.

Dividing the resulting number by the % of all players who have reached N+1 legendaries is similarly fallacious. If this was a calculation of half-life it would make sense, but because players do not start progressing at the same time, do not progress at the same rate, and completion of progress is not the same due to RNG, it's an utterly incorrect model to use. Imagine using that calculation to try to predict how long it takes to finish an Olympic race after 1/10th of the runners had finished. If the 1/10th of the runners took 10 minutes to finish, dividing by the % of all runners would suggest that it normally takes 100 minutes. That's blatantly absurd, but it's how the calculation is being done.

Unfortunately despite the fact that the flaws in the math have been pointed out numerous times in both the MMO-C thread and on related reddit threads the author of the spreadsheet has never corrected their math, and while the work done on killpoints is novel the breakpoints provided by the spreadsheet should not be taken seriously.


Edit: Also, keep in mind the tool has problems estimating killpoints if you play multiple characters due to how the Armory conflates kills/achievements etc. Your main might be close to correct, but alts will have dramatically inflated killpoint values by virtue of everything you're doing on your main. Case in point, an alt of mine that just hit 110 the other day and hasn't done anything since supposedly has 515 kill points, while my main who I've been raiding on since EN opened has 1024.


What he said, just because that tool was kinda accurate for some people doesnt mean its good. It just mean it happened to match your rate. For the vast majority its kinda useless.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20327 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-02 18:10:13
February 02 2017 17:20 GMT
#5214
Realistically every legendary takes roughly 250-300 KP to obtain (with the first being somewhat easier, more like 150-200 KP). There are no diminishing returns on legendary acquisition (not since Blizzard removed the soft cap anyway).


The first ones come quite a bit faster and later ones slower, that quite obviously takes effect on #1, #2 and #3 with getting 6 on one char taking an extremely long time for the vast majority of people.

There's no way that it's anywhere near 300kp per legendary forever - the top AP earners in the world were getting 1 legendary per month (Dec-Jan) while earning several thousand KP per month.

I earned 2000-3000kp between legendary #4 and #5 and that was 100% after the BLP was re-enabled

The math may be useless but it's painfully obvious from other sources that droprates are nonlinear well beyond the first legendary drop
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
February 02 2017 17:26 GMT
#5215
is it possible to do mythic split raids? im assuming the top guilds could 1 shot the first 3 bosses on mythic with 1/2 mains 1/2 alts. and they did farm gear this reset before continuing gul'dan progression, so i would have thought that if it's possible and if they're wanting to farm gear, they'd certainly do it. but none of them did it. im not sure if it's because they then wouldn't be able to get all their mains into the same instance together or if they just chose not to do it
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20327 Posts
February 02 2017 17:29 GMT
#5216
If char A kills a boss in instance 1 and char B kills a boss in instance 2 then they can't be in the same instance until the next reset
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Warri
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany3208 Posts
February 02 2017 18:23 GMT
#5217
mythic have real ids. Thats why one guy could hold serenity's id hostage. If you have killed a boss you are locked to the id.
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
February 02 2017 18:54 GMT
#5218
that's interesting. i wonder why blizzard implements anti split raiding tech for mythic but not heroic when heroic is where it's a much bigger problem.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
chocorush
Profile Joined June 2009
694 Posts
February 02 2017 19:00 GMT
#5219
Probably because the locked ID system causes all sorts of issues for groups, especially since so many people pug raids now.
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
February 02 2017 19:05 GMT
#5220
so they designed two systems, one which is better for hardcore players and one which is better for casual players, and use the first one on mythic lockouts and the other on everything else, and kinda just left it that
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
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