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When winter's stream wasnt featured yet, i was curious about his stream, as he got 2k viewers without being featured. After watching it for a bit, i found myself tuning in more often, as i quite enjoyed it. While it certainly does seem a lot, i can also understand why people tune in.
Winter can't defend himself against most of these accusations, regardless of him being innocent or not. Statistics on viewer activity in chat or viewer amount/tournament activity correlations are suggestive at best. Given he did not viewbot, how would he be able to prove his viewers are real? How could you explain people tuning in quickly? Answering those questions will lead to kafkaesque situations very quickly.
Some accusations are irrelevant. Some people, according to winter himself, donate quite a bit. He could be lying about it to make people donate. I can certainly see that. However, does that relate to viewbotting? Not necessarily of course. Suppose he does lie about it, does this necessarily say he's viewbotting? No, of course not. It does say he's being dishonest on some points. There might even be a correlation between people lying about donation and people viewbotting, i don't know. But even if that were true, because we're looking at a single case, we still wouldn't be able to say he was based on this argument, making the issue if he's lying or not about his donations irrelevant.
Also, doyougmailbro has quite the case of myopia. "I wouldn't give him money, so nobody would". I wouldn't, you wouldn't, but that doesnt mean nobody would. Using thát as an argument seems immature at best.
I don't know if he's viewbotting or not. It seems suspicious indeed, but i haven't read anything worth debating yet; at least not in this thread.
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On September 15 2014 22:36 Yorbon wrote:
When winter's stream wasnt featured yet, i was curious about his stream, as he got 2k viewers without being featured. After watching it for a bit, i found myself tuning in more often, as i quite enjoyed it. While it certainly does seem a lot, i can also understand why people tune in.
Winter can't defend himself against most of these accusations, regardless of him being innocent or not. Statistics on viewer activity in chat or viewer amount/tournament activity correlations are suggestive at best. Given he did not viewbot, how would he be able to prove his viewers are real? How could you explain people tuning in quickly? Answering those questions will lead to kafkaesque situations very quickly.
Some accusations are irrelevant. Some people, according to winter himself, donate quite a bit. He could be lying about it to make people donate. I can certainly see that. However, does that relate to viewbotting? Not necessarily of course. Suppose he does lie about it, does this necessarily say he's viewbotting? No, of course not. It does say he's being dishonest on some points. There might even be a correlation between people lying about donation and people viewbotting, i don't know. But even if that were true, because we're looking at a single case, we still wouldn't be able to say he was based on this argument, making the issue if he's lying or not about his donations irrelevant.
Also, doyougmailbro has quite the case of myopia. "I wouldn't give him money, so nobody would". I wouldn't, you wouldn't, but that doesnt mean nobody would. Using thát as an argument seems immature at best.
I don't know if he's viewbotting or not. It seems suspicious indeed, but i haven't read anything worth debating yet; at least not in this thread.
What are you even talking about? The point I wanted to make was that he ban people who mention anything about viewbots and viewer count in the chat as he banned me as soon as he realizes what I said. it's shady business what he's doing and if you can't contribute to the thread then why are you even typing so much just to insert that someone is immature for posting about his negative experience on winterstarcraft stream. No one should be banned based alone on that sentence. Oh and you mention stay on topic? well I was commenting on what someone said about his viewbot usages and donation scams. So this thread isn't about you not knowing if he is viewbotting or not since you merely attacked the OP without much consideration. You're a troll at best but I expected that.
The argument now is that I believe he lied about the donations and I believe he ban people who addresses the unfair usage of viewbots just to trick people to donate and subscribe to his channel.
If this is considered fair game within the twitch stream community then so be it. But seriously, the ban was unnecessary. I'm not upset or have the intention to disdain someone to mark down his reputation. Like i said, it's just pathetic to ban people who speak their mind.
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a common explanation would be that he has had a lot of people causing trouble talking about viewbots in his channel in the past and a result of that conflict was that he started banning troublemakers and you got lumped with that crowd. like if you make a joke about rape to a rape victim without realising they just got raped you're gonna get in trouble
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On September 16 2014 02:37 doyougmailbro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2014 22:36 Yorbon wrote:
When winter's stream wasnt featured yet, i was curious about his stream, as he got 2k viewers without being featured. After watching it for a bit, i found myself tuning in more often, as i quite enjoyed it. While it certainly does seem a lot, i can also understand why people tune in.
Winter can't defend himself against most of these accusations, regardless of him being innocent or not. Statistics on viewer activity in chat or viewer amount/tournament activity correlations are suggestive at best. Given he did not viewbot, how would he be able to prove his viewers are real? How could you explain people tuning in quickly? Answering those questions will lead to kafkaesque situations very quickly.
Some accusations are irrelevant. Some people, according to winter himself, donate quite a bit. He could be lying about it to make people donate. I can certainly see that. However, does that relate to viewbotting? Not necessarily of course. Suppose he does lie about it, does this necessarily say he's viewbotting? No, of course not. It does say he's being dishonest on some points. There might even be a correlation between people lying about donation and people viewbotting, i don't know. But even if that were true, because we're looking at a single case, we still wouldn't be able to say he was based on this argument, making the issue if he's lying or not about his donations irrelevant.
Also, doyougmailbro has quite the case of myopia. "I wouldn't give him money, so nobody would". I wouldn't, you wouldn't, but that doesnt mean nobody would. Using thát as an argument seems immature at best.
I don't know if he's viewbotting or not. It seems suspicious indeed, but i haven't read anything worth debating yet; at least not in this thread.
What are you even talking about? The point I wanted to make was that he ban people who mention anything about viewbots and viewer count in the chat as he banned me as soon as he realizes what I said. it's shady business what he's doing and if you can't contribute to the thread then why are you even typing so much just to insert that someone is immature for posting about his negative experience on winterstarcraft stream. No one should be banned based alone on that sentence. Oh and you mention stay on topic? well I was commenting on what someone said about his viewbot usages and donation scams. So this thread isn't about you not knowing if he is viewbotting or not since you merely attacked the OP without much consideration. You're a troll at best but I expected that. The argument now is that I believe he lied about the donations and I believe he ban people who addresses the unfair usage of viewbots just to trick people to donate and subscribe to his channel. If this is considered fair game within the twitch stream community then so be it. But seriously, the ban was unnecessary. I'm not upset or have the intention to disdain someone to mark down his reputation. Like i said, it's just pathetic to ban people who speak their mind. Like i said, what's happening is indeed suspicious. You can call it shady business, but that alone doesnt amount to anything. What one needs besides that is relevant arguments.
The reason i called you immature, was because you were projecting your own views on the quality of winter's stream unto others. Quoting your post "I doubt anyone is actually donating that much money to his stream. He can fake it by stating any amount he wants since none of it is verified and he likes to keep it that way. Who in the right mind would donate 600 dollars just to watch him stream?" Like i said in my original post, that you think no one would, doesnt actually mean no one would. That's all i referred to regarding you specifically.
Secondly, i never mentioned anything about being ontopic. I actively tried to get the discussion to debating relevant arguments, meaning that they have anything to do with accusations. To make this clearer, let's quote you again:
"I doubt anyone is actually donating that much money to his stream. He can fake it by stating any amount he wants since none of it is verified and he likes to keep it that way. Who in the right mind would donate 600 dollars just to watch him stream? His chat is always dead but the mod is always around to ban people who states specific facts about his channel that he doesn't want people to realize his use with viewbots and donation scams. That's right scams, why does he keep asking people to "give him" money, really he's not that important. Compare his chat with someone who really has 3k viewers, use Hutch for example. Now Hutch is genuine and you can tell by how active his chat is suggesting that he actually has 3k viewers. "
Notice how doubts about the truth on his donations fluently go over to comparing winter to someone named Hutch, who ' actually has 3k viewers'. This at least suggests one thinks there is a relation between the two (just in case: the two being faking donations and viewbotting). I have elaborated on why I think the truth on donations is irrelevant to winter viewbotting. If you agree, then everythings fine. I that case i fell into some suggestive writing. Both of us have some blame in this miscommunication.
I don't care about your experiences in the winter chat. As the thread is on viewbotting, i restricted myself to accusations of viewbotting. I feel your experiences are completely irrelevant to anything i said. If it looks that way, i apologise. And me being a troll or not has nothing to do with anything.
Lastly, I don't really understand how i attacked the op? I was merely reacting to people having an opinion on the legitimacy of winter's stream numbers.
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On June 03 2014 05:27 Vandrad wrote:
So Winter used Viewbots?
Now it makes sense. I'm following the sc2 scene since 2011 and this guy appeared out of nowhere with 2k viewers.
This makes sense to me now also, i saw him with like 2500 viewers out of no where also, and had no idea who he was.
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On September 16 2014 07:23 Yorbon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2014 02:37 doyougmailbro wrote:On September 15 2014 22:36 Yorbon wrote:
When winter's stream wasnt featured yet, i was curious about his stream, as he got 2k viewers without being featured. After watching it for a bit, i found myself tuning in more often, as i quite enjoyed it. While it certainly does seem a lot, i can also understand why people tune in.
Winter can't defend himself against most of these accusations, regardless of him being innocent or not. Statistics on viewer activity in chat or viewer amount/tournament activity correlations are suggestive at best. Given he did not viewbot, how would he be able to prove his viewers are real? How could you explain people tuning in quickly? Answering those questions will lead to kafkaesque situations very quickly.
Some accusations are irrelevant. Some people, according to winter himself, donate quite a bit. He could be lying about it to make people donate. I can certainly see that. However, does that relate to viewbotting? Not necessarily of course. Suppose he does lie about it, does this necessarily say he's viewbotting? No, of course not. It does say he's being dishonest on some points. There might even be a correlation between people lying about donation and people viewbotting, i don't know. But even if that were true, because we're looking at a single case, we still wouldn't be able to say he was based on this argument, making the issue if he's lying or not about his donations irrelevant.
Also, doyougmailbro has quite the case of myopia. "I wouldn't give him money, so nobody would". I wouldn't, you wouldn't, but that doesnt mean nobody would. Using thát as an argument seems immature at best.
I don't know if he's viewbotting or not. It seems suspicious indeed, but i haven't read anything worth debating yet; at least not in this thread.
What are you even talking about? The point I wanted to make was that he ban people who mention anything about viewbots and viewer count in the chat as he banned me as soon as he realizes what I said. it's shady business what he's doing and if you can't contribute to the thread then why are you even typing so much just to insert that someone is immature for posting about his negative experience on winterstarcraft stream. No one should be banned based alone on that sentence. Oh and you mention stay on topic? well I was commenting on what someone said about his viewbot usages and donation scams. So this thread isn't about you not knowing if he is viewbotting or not since you merely attacked the OP without much consideration. You're a troll at best but I expected that. The argument now is that I believe he lied about the donations and I believe he ban people who addresses the unfair usage of viewbots just to trick people to donate and subscribe to his channel. If this is considered fair game within the twitch stream community then so be it. But seriously, the ban was unnecessary. I'm not upset or have the intention to disdain someone to mark down his reputation. Like i said, it's just pathetic to ban people who speak their mind. Like i said, what's happening is indeed suspicious. You can call it shady business, but that alone doesnt amount to anything. What one needs besides that is relevant arguments. The reason i called you immature, was because you were projecting your own views on the quality of winter's stream unto others. Quoting your post "I doubt anyone is actually donating that much money to his stream. He can fake it by stating any amount he wants since none of it is verified and he likes to keep it that way. Who in the right mind would donate 600 dollars just to watch him stream?" Like i said in my original post, that you think no one would, doesnt actually mean no one would. That's all i referred to regarding you specifically. Secondly, i never mentioned anything about being ontopic. I actively tried to get the discussion to debating relevant arguments, meaning that they have anything to do with accusations. To make this clearer, let's quote you again: "I doubt anyone is actually donating that much money to his stream. He can fake it by stating any amount he wants since none of it is verified and he likes to keep it that way. Who in the right mind would donate 600 dollars just to watch him stream? His chat is always dead but the mod is always around to ban people who states specific facts about his channel that he doesn't want people to realize his use with viewbots and donation scams. That's right scams, why does he keep asking people to "give him" money, really he's not that important. Compare his chat with someone who really has 3k viewers, use Hutch for example. Now Hutch is genuine and you can tell by how active his chat is suggesting that he actually has 3k viewers. " Notice how doubts about the truth on his donations fluently go over to comparing winter to someone named Hutch, who ' actually has 3k viewers'. This at least suggests one thinks there is a relation between the two (just in case: the two being faking donations and viewbotting). I have elaborated on why I think the truth on donations is irrelevant to winter viewbotting. If you agree, then everythings fine. I that case i fell into some suggestive writing. Both of us have some blame in this miscommunication. I don't care about your experiences in the winter chat. As the thread is on viewbotting, i restricted myself to accusations of viewbotting. I feel your experiences are completely irrelevant to anything i said. If it looks that way, i apologise. And me being a troll or not has nothing to do with anything. Lastly, I don't really understand how i attacked the op? I was merely reacting to people having an opinion on the legitimacy of winter's stream numbers.
I'm sure you can get your bullshit across quicker by saying less. Anyways, my experience matters every bit here and your views do not. I've disregarded everything the OP has mentioned and I am arguing from my point of my view, my experience from a few hours ago, after being unjustifiably banned, so I went and made an account and realized that I could not start a thread until I've waited 3 days for the account to be legitimate so I can start my own threads. If you're not happy with the direction of this old thread has gone, then you should start your own. If what I say did not seem relevant to you then why the are you even responding and getting my attention? Well this is my last message to you. I'm not even sure why you think you could come on here and critiqued everything I've said and making it personal by calling me nearsighted and immature. It's a good enough example to bring a my point across. I've said what I needed to say.
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On September 16 2014 06:18 FFGenerations wrote:
a common explanation would be that he has had a lot of people causing trouble talking about viewbots in his channel in the past and a result of that conflict was that he started banning troublemakers and you got lumped with that crowd. like if you make a joke about rape to a rape victim without realising they just got raped you're gonna get in trouble
Except he bans a regular without much thought? I mean, there are other options ,quieting someone for some time would do but a permanent ban over that? C'mon
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Yup we're not doing this.
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EPT
