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Please keep the QQ to a minimum if you do not like this update. We are happy to hear your reasoning for not liking a ranked system, but no "OMG VOLVO WHY" posts. |
On December 30 2013 11:25 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2013 11:18 Kupon3ss wrote:
lineup seems perfectly sound; offlane PL, offensive jungle chen mid SD jungle bat solo safe DP
Though the laning seems rather subpar There are also other reasonable ways to lane that if your team isn't as enamored of off-lane PL as Kupo is, and I don't think any of them involve an off-lane DP. Radiant's lineup is also manageable, if a bit greedy and rough if lanes don't go well--though judging by the items and farm, it's probably a safe bet that the Alche refused to play support which then presents a major problem.
Is solo offlane Batrider not actually a thing?
B-but Select did it and he was the chosen one
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On December 30 2013 10:55 JamazVu wrote:
this mmr system is so stupid, I know how to support ( Im not pro but I think I have a decent play) warding placement, pulls, harrasement, denys etc...
The fact that you fail to mention roaming as a support shows that you don't understand the role. Roaming is the most important part of being a support player, play makers win games. But then again most supports at 4k-5k don't understand how to properly roam either.
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Roaming is hard because you can waste a lot of time if your teammates doesn't follow up. I have had so many failed smoke ganks on mid because my mid didn't follow up and try to seal the deal. It is super fustrating in pub games.
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thats because you dont ping enough
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You don't need to smoke to roam. Most mid players will be always watching the maps for missing supports so the fact you have smoke or not doesn't really affect the outcome unless he has defensive wards or you are trying to roam during the day.
A lot of supports in pubs also gets carried away with the "support" role, aka buying way too many unnecessary wards/sents and not making crucial items like mek/force.
If you are think you mmr is below your skill level, just pick play to win heroes like kaolin or furion. It's pretty hard to lose with those heroes if you are decent.
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The smoke gank was just an example. Roaming is likely the hardest part to learn as a support, because it requires theost experience to do it effiecently.
And I ping as hard as I can, while saying "let wreck this clown". Its just that some players respond with, "I didn't know" or "I'm trying to farm, not fight." It's not every game. It's about 50/50 success rate when I get off a good stun/snare.
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Yeah roaming kind of require you to know what the heroes on both sides are capable of and requires your teammate to be somewhat aware.
Honestly a lot of support players understand the pure support side pretty well since guides will sufficiently explain how to ward/deward/pull/zone etc, but they really need to step it up on knowing what items to buy and when to buy them. Every time a support finishes a magic wand, a kitten dies.
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Problem is roaming is difficult if you have to solo roam (team goes greedy and picks 4 semicarries or you have some useless jungler instead of second support), especially if the enemy team has 2 supports roaming.
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After my "vacation" i had a thought why i made such a problem about the current ranked system of dota2 and how Valve could maybe make it more acceptable for me personally. Details below, but here is the short summary in 1 setensence : mmr impact on community and the individual, influence over my own mmr, the rate of enjoyment in low and high mmr.ranges should be the same.
1. Being judged by individuals.is not fun when u feel there judgement is not completely fair. In general I dont like to be catogorized by a community (not the mmr itself). i.e. certain individuals that dont know on which criteria then are actually catogorizing, what the rating actually stands for or how it compares to a different rating. I experience the community as more toxic since mmr has been introduced, like u maybe experience this post as toxic In sc2 i atleast got the feeling that mmr would help me to get better at the game eventually (ladders, bonuspools, guides from lowlevel till masters and other stuff i could relate too). Dota2-mmr doesnt give me that same feeling that it will help me improve and/or help rate individual players by individuals or themselves in a fair manner. To me it feels like the only thing the current mmr-system provides is a way for AP-players to compare themselves with AR-, or even CM-players, which doesnt even seem a good comparison between two individuals to me. Maybe the impact of showing mmr ingame on the community and the individual has been misjudged a bit. Hopefully Valve will find a way eventually.
2. Influence over your starting mmr after it was announced and your future mmr is questionable. In general, people want to have control over stuff that concerns them individually. Its wierd that i get rated/judged, when i dont have any influence over certain events : Abbadons, ragequiters, feeders, etcetcetc. In real life, I would not like it if my car insurance would be doubled after my neighbour crashes his car. Or because our class's average on an exam was Cminus, i also get a Cminus, although i individually scored an Aplus on that exam. For me, that doesnt seem fair in an individual rating system. Ofcourse alot of the current mmr advocates will say that if u play enough games it will pan out. Im fine with it if that works for u, but for alot of the people it will not because there will not be enough data to produce a quality rating. In sc2 i was atleast fully accountable for my mmr and leagueplacement. Hopefully Valve will find a way eventually.
3. The lower u get, the lower you really go! Chances are that everything stated above gets worse the lower u go and could eventually become a big problem after a certain period. Eventually, all the rotten apples, the feeders, ragers, ragequiters, abbadoners will be in the lower ranges of mmr. It will be harder to find a nice game there and it could get worse and worse. If it was possible to get fast out of this toxic envirement into higher regions, then it could be different, maybe. Im not really skilled in dota2 so i prob. will not ever get in those regions, but i fear less and less good games in my mmr range as time passes on. It could also explain why players with high mmr have experienced more nice games then people with lower mmr, or atleast thats the feeling i get from reading alot in this thread and the qqq thread. Assumptions yes indeed, but if it were true that this could happen or seems logical, then i hope that Valve will find a way eventually.
For now, the text above states my thoughts after the introduction of shown mmr. U dont have to feel the same and thats fine, but this is how i have experienced dota2 sometimes after the update. That u all may have a pleasant 2014 my fellow feeders
p.s. apologies for any bad english etcetc.
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I like ranked. Five games in, and where I was half expecting super serious angryface people, I've actually just been getting chill people that are playing to win, but aren't afraid to admit what went wrong. So far nobody's been screaming at anyone for being really bad, and while the game quality could be better as far as attitudes and quality of teammates goes I've honestly got nothing to complain about yet.
And I've even lost 4 of the 5 games, and still don't hate ranked.
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On December 31 2013 12:19 govie wrote:
Its wierd that i get rated/judged, when i dont have any influence over certain events : Abbadons, ragequiters, feeders, etcetcetc.
Nobody influences Abbadon! HE IS ABBADON!  )))))))))))))))
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On December 31 2013 12:19 govie wrote:After my "vacation" i had a thought why i made such a problem about the current ranked system of dota2 and how Valve could maybe make it more acceptable for me personally. Details below, but here is the short summary in 1 setensence : mmr impact on community and the individual, influence over my own mmr, the rate of enjoyment in low and high mmr.ranges should be the same. 1. Being judged by individuals.is not fun when u feel there judgement is not completely fair. In general I dont like to be catogorized by a community (not the mmr itself). i.e. certain individuals that dont know on which criteria then are actually catogorizing, what the rating actually stands for or how it compares to a different rating. I experience the community as more toxic since mmr has been introduced, like u maybe experience this post as toxic In sc2 i atleast got the feeling that mmr would help me to get better at the game eventually (ladders, bonuspools, guides from lowlevel till masters and other stuff i could relate too). Dota2-mmr doesnt give me that same feeling that it will help me improve and/or help rate individual players by individuals or themselves in a fair manner. To me it feels like the only thing the current mmr-system provides is a way for AP-players to compare themselves with AR-, or even CM-players, which doesnt even seem a good comparison between two individuals to me. Maybe the impact of showing mmr ingame on the community and the individual has been misjudged a bit. Hopefully Valve will find a way eventually. 2. Influence over your starting mmr after it was announced and your future mmr is questionable. In general, people want to have control over stuff that concerns them individually. Its wierd that i get rated/judged, when i dont have any influence over certain events : Abbadons, ragequiters, feeders, etcetcetc. In real life, I would not like it if my car insurance would be doubled after my neighbour crashes his car. Or because our class's average on an exam was Cminus, i also get a Cminus, although i individually scored an Aplus on that exam. For me, that doesnt seem fair in an individual rating system. Ofcourse alot of the current mmr advocates will say that if u play enough games it will pan out. Im fine with it if that works for u, but for alot of the people it will not because there will not be enough data to produce a quality rating. In sc2 i was atleast fully accountable for my mmr and leagueplacement. Hopefully Valve will find a way eventually. 3. The lower u get, the lower you really go! Chances are that everything stated above gets worse the lower u go and could eventually become a big problem after a certain period. Eventually, all the rotten apples, the feeders, ragers, ragequiters, abbadoners will be in the lower ranges of mmr. It will be harder to find a nice game there and it could get worse and worse. If it was possible to get fast out of this toxic envirement into higher regions, then it could be different, maybe. Im not really skilled in dota2 so i prob. will not ever get in those regions, but i fear less and less good games in my mmr range as time passes on. It could also explain why players with high mmr have experienced more nice games then people with lower mmr, or atleast thats the feeling i get from reading alot in this thread and the qqq thread. Assumptions yes indeed, but if it were true that this could happen or seems logical, then i hope that Valve will find a way eventually. For now, the text above states my thoughts after the introduction of shown mmr. U dont have to feel the same and thats fine, but this is how i have experienced dota2 sometimes after the update. That u all may have a pleasant 2014 my fellow feeders p.s. apologies for any bad english etcetc.
I don't think I agree to the same extent. I think it does make certain things frustrating, particularly as someone who primarily plays support. IT's annoying watching your carries get horrible items or suck at farming, so I'm going to try to learn somewhat independent roles, or stuff that scales better, IE: LS, or a few mids/junglers that I can constantly play. But I don't think your MMR will infinitely drop because of bad teammates, the same shit is happening to other people so if you are truly better than the other players you can probably go to any lane in any position and be better and win.
PS: What I found hilarious is you said abbadon instead of abandon and I found myself thinking "God I hate that hero too"
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On December 31 2013 15:16 MotherOfRunes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2013 12:19 govie wrote:
Its wierd that i get rated/judged, when i dont have any influence over certain events : Abbadons, ragequiters, feeders, etcetcetc. Nobody influences Abbadon! HE IS ABBADON! )))))))))))))))
Shite! man it was late Ill let the post unchanged so others can have a laugh too
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I 'feel' like, the MM system expects me to stomp my games. I lost 250+ MMR points this week with many many consecutive losses. My perception is, it is not enough to stay on par with my lane. I have to win in, or rather stomp it to snowball later on to lay disaster on the opponent.
Man, I admit I can't carry my team with all the heroes I pick and all the lanes I go. Sometimes I beg to not at least lose the lanes but unfortunately this is not the case.
In one my games, opponent mid storm cursed me after the game because I turned mid lane to hell to him with constant ganks and kills. But I lost the game even though we should have(supposed to) won the mid lane.
I feel I always pick the short end of the stick while MM is deciding the teams.
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winning the lane isnt enough, you have to be useful beyond that and apply pressure. Most of the time people lose because they ignore a split pusher or the ennemy jungle
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This MMR is the biggest joke IMO. How can you match people with 200 wins (so probably less than 500 matches overall) with people that have 700-800-900 wins (so probably around 1500 matches or more matches played). Just because your MMR is around the same does that mean you are in the same "league" ? Thats complete bs and if volvo things this is the way to make things more interesting well then, FU. Ill stick to pubs where at least you queue with people that have the same number of matches played and they know how to give a tree or what Bane's 3rd spell is doing.
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On December 31 2013 23:30 SS.Shark wrote:
This MMR is the biggest joke IMO. How can you match people with 200 wins (so probably less than 500 matches overall) with people that have 700-800-900 wins (so probably around 1500 matches or more matches played). Just because your MMR is around the same does that mean you are in the same "league" ? Thats complete bs and if volvo things this is the way to make things more interesting well then, FU. Ill stick to pubs where at least you queue with people that have the same number of matches played and they know how to give a tree or what Bane's 3rd spell is doing.
how about its guys like you who have to stop BSing instead of valve?
dude come on wins MEAN NOTHING. peopple with 200 wins also could ahve 5000 games in dota 1. there are people with 1000wins in dota 2 but never have played fucking dota 1 and are still uber-scrubs. u say you go abck to pubs?? in these pubs (sidenote:ranked is still pub) THE SAME rating shit is going on in the background. how about stop whining over random stuff?
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On December 31 2013 23:30 SS.Shark wrote:
This MMR is the biggest joke IMO. How can you match people with 200 wins (so probably less than 500 matches overall) with people that have 700-800-900 wins (so probably around 1500 matches or more matches played). Just because your MMR is around the same does that mean you are in the same "league" ? Thats complete bs and if volvo things this is the way to make things more interesting well then, FU. Ill stick to pubs where at least you queue with people that have the same number of matches played and they know how to give a tree or what Bane's 3rd spell is doing.
My main account now has 250 wins ish. And I've played like 8-10k games. People make new account for different reasons (for me personally I hate having the Abandon number higher than 0. I never abandon, it just happens with the power dies completely and I can't get it back in time). So I make a new account. Number of wins has nothing to do with a persons skill..
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On December 31 2013 23:36 MotherOfRunes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2013 23:30 SS.Shark wrote:
This MMR is the biggest joke IMO. How can you match people with 200 wins (so probably less than 500 matches overall) with people that have 700-800-900 wins (so probably around 1500 matches or more matches played). Just because your MMR is around the same does that mean you are in the same "league" ? Thats complete bs and if volvo things this is the way to make things more interesting well then, FU. Ill stick to pubs where at least you queue with people that have the same number of matches played and they know how to give a tree or what Bane's 3rd spell is doing. how about its guys like you who have to stop BSing instead of valve? dude come on wins MEAN NOTHING. peopple with 200 wins also could ahve 5000 games in dota 1. there are people with 1000wins in dota 2 but never have played fucking dota 1 and are still uber-scrubs. u say you go abck to pubs?? in these pubs (sidenote:ranked is still pub) THE SAME rating shit is going on in the background. how about stop whining over random stuff?
You clearly didn't read my post yet you start flaming. Are you one of those "mid or feed" ?
Let me brake it down for ya cupcake :
1. In pubs you get to queue with people who have a similar NUMBER OF MATCHES PLAYED where a very realistic expectation is that people have a better understanding of farming, split pushing, different roles, warding, counter warding, etc
2. Dota1 is not Dota2 and viceversa. Period. So having 1023912039102 games in DOTA1 doesnt mean automatically you'll be as skilled or as experienced or as versed in DOTA2 as you were in DOTA1. It just doesnt work that way.
3. Random stuff ? This aint the weather outside we're talking about.
4. Number of wins (or matches as I used that in brackets) were just to give a perspective of the things that are happening since this MMR kicked in. Could've used losses, would that have made a difference ? No.
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Imma break it down for you, people can learn faster than other. For example people with similar # of games than you can be pro level while you're in the mud. Nobody cares about number of games played after the first 20.
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EPT
