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Ukraine Crisis - Page 537
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kukarachaa
United States284 Posts
https://m.facebook.com/vladimir.bodelan.1/posts/407148279425030 | ||
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marigoldran
219 Posts
Putin meets with Commander-in-Chief of the Interior Troops of Russia Nikolai Rogozhkin and Commander of the United Russian Interior Troops Alignment in the North Caucasus Region Sergei Melikov (not pictured) at the Bocharov Ruchei state residence in Sochi, May 12, 2014. Russian President Vladimir Putin has almost achieved Russia's primary objective that arose after protesters in Kiev ousted Moscow-backed President Viktor Yanukovych in February. "[The Russians] do not need to have physical control of these regions to achieve their objective for the Ukraine, which has always been to render Ukraine ungovernable," Keir Giles, analyst at Chatham House's International Security and Russia and Eurasia Program London, told USA Today. Ukraine's government has lost the eastern regions of Donestk and Lustank after armed separatists held sham referendums, declared independence, asked Russia to annex the territories, and then seized election offices to prevent voting in the country’s May 25 parliamentary and presidential vote . Separatists in those areas are commanded by Igor Strelkov, a suspected Russian intelligence officer who told journalists that he and his men entered Ukraine from Crimea. ... “Write this down: There is no such thing as Ukraine,” a Russian Cossack militiamen told Simon Shuster of Time in eastern Ukraine. “There are only the Russian borderlands, and the fact they became known as Ukraine after the [Bolshevik] Revolution, well, we intend to correct that mistake.” | ||
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nunez
Norway4003 Posts
Frankivsk Right Sector Armoured Personnel Carrier Farce Ends. State-sponsored paramilitary training camps start. uauk@wordpress... While I was aware that Right Sector in the local region was organising various military and ideological training camps through the OUN-UNSO organisation and its youth branch Tryzub (Trident) named after Stefan Bandera, this report is the first I have seen that shows that the Right Sector and Maidan Self-Defence paramilitary training camps are being funded and supported by the state on the national and regional level, as the video report states. The camp involved people from this region as well as others who had travelled from Kyiv. ... The Ivano-Frankivsk training camp could be preparing participants for entry into the National Guard, since Right Sector units are part of the NG. However, the video makes no mention of the National Guard. Obviously, this could be part of the mythologisation of Right Sector that some small elements of the local media are involved in. (There are other elements of the media here that are actively critical of it.) However, given the fact that a thirteen year-old boy is being trained to shoot, as the video shows, then it’s unlikely to be part of official National Guard duties. 18 is the minimum age. It seems, then, that the State Emergency Service is funding and training paramilitaries who are not necessarily going to be included into the National Guard which might at least have some semblance of military hierarchy and order. ... | ||
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Mc
332 Posts
Let's hope that casualties, especially amongst civilians are at a minimum. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21952 Posts
On May 16 2014 00:58 Mc wrote: So in case any of you weren't aware. The deputy leader of the DPR's armed forces declared that if the Ukrainian troops don't withdraw within 24 hours (9pm Ukraine time tonight, 2 hours from now), then they will begin an all out assault on their positions and kill everybody and he won't be held responsible for his actions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO5rpYHyM8o&feature=youtu.be Let's hope that casualties, especially amongst civilians are at a minimum. That sounds like a perfectly good way for the separatists to get shot. And the classic "I will not be responsible for this thing I chose to do myself of my own free will" :p | ||
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Mc
332 Posts
And this is how, as we've seen countless times before, separatists behave: | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
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Mc
332 Posts
Nice chart- I always (out of ignorance) grouped the Baltics together and it's really interesting how economically independent Estonia is from Russia compared to Latvia/Lithuania. Do you get most of your energy from Norway? | ||
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Mc
332 Posts
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/16/world/europe/ukraine-workers-take-to-streets-to-calm-Mariupol.html?hp&_r=1 | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
On May 16 2014 05:34 Mc wrote: @ghan Nice chart- I always (out of ignorance) grouped the Baltics together and it's really interesting how economically independent Estonia is from Russia compared to Latvia/Lithuania. Do you get most of your energy from Norway? We produce our own energy from oil shale. Dirty energy is better than Russian energy. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On May 16 2014 06:25 Mc wrote: This article made me more optimistic about the conflict than anything I have read in the past month. Can someone point out what am I missing here? Maybe it won't affect all the separatist towns, but this seems extremely significant to me. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/16/world/europe/ukraine-workers-take-to-streets-to-calm-Mariupol.html?hp&_r=1 I read this earlier. Yes this is good news. As an aside, it is oddly reminiscent of old proletariat order. But when you consider the guy on top of them is allegedly a huge mafioso / mafia-connected guy, then there's concern for what he's up to. Probably trying to strengthen his own power in those areas. It would figure why he's pushing for greater "local autonomy", (maybe something like federalization?). | ||
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Mc
332 Posts
On May 16 2014 06:49 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: I read this earlier. Yes this is good news. As an aside, it is oddly reminiscent of old proletariat order. But when you consider the guy on top of them is allegedly a huge mafioso / mafia-connected guy, then there's concern for what he's up to. Probably trying to strengthen his own power in those areas. It would figure why he's pushing for greater "local autonomy", (maybe something like federalization?). Yeah Ahkmetov seems like a genuine oligarch scumbag and wants to cement his position/power. For Ukraine as a whole what is needed is to strengthen democracy and fight corruption. Would decentralization help that? I feel as if it wouldn't since that would give too much power to local Oligarchs. I think a strong central government with close ties to the EU/West is Ukraine's best chance. | ||
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Acertos
France852 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On May 16 2014 06:49 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: I read this earlier. Yes this is good news. As an aside, it is oddly reminiscent of old proletariat order. But when you consider the guy on top of them is allegedly a huge mafioso / mafia-connected guy, then there's concern for what he's up to. I think the sad truth is that being a shady oligarch makes you one of the more reasonable people in the troubled areas at the moment. At least these guys have a vested interest of having a functioning economy and some kind of functioning political system. | ||
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marigoldran
219 Posts
Though of course some people on this forum continue to believe there is insufficient evidence of Russian involvement in East Ukraine. After all they need to be "objective." Perhaps Igor Strelkov is just some random Russian dude who coincidentally chose to emigrate to Ukraine at this time out of the purity and goodness of his heart. | ||
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marigoldran
219 Posts
Ironically enough, the weakness of the Kiev government might be the reason why Ukraine will remain as one state. The Kiev government is so pitiful that it's actually in the interests of the oligarchs to prop it up. From their perspective it's better to have a weak Ukrainian government in charge, than a strong Russian one. Still, the oligarchs will demand a price from Kiev for their loyalty, so Ukraine is going to become a federalized state regardless of what it's called. Just a prediction. I could be wrong, but most of my predictions on political events in Ukraine or Syria have been accurate. | ||
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marigoldran
219 Posts
On May 16 2014 07:29 Acertos wrote: His intents may be selfish and immoral but with his influence perhaps he can calm the situation. Everyone's intentions in a political situation like this is selfish and immoral. Just stating the obvious. | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On May 16 2014 06:58 Mc wrote: Yeah Ahkmetov seems like a genuine oligarch scumbag and wants to cement his position/power. For Ukraine as a whole what is needed is to strengthen democracy and fight corruption. Would decentralization help that? I feel as if it wouldn't since that would give too much power to local Oligarchs. I think a strong central government with close ties to the EU/West is Ukraine's best chance. Russia has strong central government and they are ruled by oligarchs. That does not seem to be the solution necessarily. | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On May 16 2014 09:09 marigoldran wrote: Everyone's intentions in a political situation like this is selfish and immoral. Just stating the obvious. Selfish possibly, immoral definitely not. There is plenty of people whose intent is not immoral. And some whose actions are not immoral either. | ||
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marigoldran
219 Posts
On May 16 2014 10:25 mcc wrote: Selfish possibly, immoral definitely not. There is plenty of people whose intent is not immoral. And some whose actions are not immoral either. Fair enough. In this crisis, most everyone is selfish. Their morality? Questionable. | ||
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