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On April 24 2014 02:00 hunts wrote:
So they're going to kill the vice guy? I imagine killing a US citizen won't go over too well for them. Then again, obama has shown time and again that he only has balls when dealing with his own citizens, when dealing with anyone outside the US he is spineless, so I doubt anything will happen even if they do kill him.. Sad though, I really liked the vice stuff.
I would see killing isnt then only option. Its probably less likely then him being beaten up and locked away for a while before being set free after the gain there independence.
Not that its much comfort. The guy must be going through hell right now ><
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Useful graph:
Note that the positions of Denmark and Austria might be misrepresented.
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Anyone care to provide insight on why some of the individual countries are opposed?
Italy clearly gets a lot of its gas from Russia.
Bulgaria is cozy w/ Russia from what I know.
Hungary - I guess their government is becoming more authoritarian so that cozies it up to Russia
Spain/Portugal(?) (maybe just distance and inactivity in international politics?)
Austria against, Germany neutral?
Greece, too busy with their own problems :p
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On April 24 2014 01:49 Ghanburighan wrote:
More Jewish Nazis:
I see absolutely no reason why fascism and antisemitism have to go hand-in hand.
Fascism is, at its core, victim complex authoritarian nationalism. Nothing inherently antisemitic about it, except for the fact that Jews tend to be an unpopular minority in Europe.
On April 24 2014 03:04 Mc wrote:Anyone care to provide insight on why some of the individual countries are opposed? Italy clearly gets a lot of its gas from Russia. Bulgaria is cozy w/ Russia from what I know. Hungary - I guess their government is becoming more authoritarian so that cozies it up to Russia Spain/Portugal(?) (maybe just distance and inactivity in international politics?) Austria against, Germany neutral? Greece, too busy with their own problems :p
I doubt too many of these countries really care about the Ukraine situation at all. US pressure has a lot to do with it.
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On April 24 2014 03:04 LegalLord wrote:I see absolutely no reason why fascism and antisemitism have to go hand-in hand. Fascism is, at its core, victim complex authoritarian nationalism. Nothing inherently antisemitic about it, except for the fact that Jews tend to be an unpopular minority in Europe.
I agree, but people in this forum and Russian media are quick to point out that the nationalists in Ukraine are anti-semite fascists (even though that describes a lot of Russians.. and Putin is pretty close to being a fascist).
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On April 24 2014 03:04 Mc wrote:Anyone care to provide insight on why some of the individual countries are opposed? Italy clearly gets a lot of its gas from Russia. Bulgaria is cozy w/ Russia from what I know. Hungary - I guess their government is becoming more authoritarian so that cozies it up to Russia Spain/Portugal(?) (maybe just distance and inactivity in international politics?) Austria against, Germany neutral? Greece, too busy with their own problems :p
I'd love to respond in depth, but I don't have time atm.
You missed Cypros though, which is a major financial center for Russian money. It's basically a tax haven, money laundering center and FDI hub all in one for Russia.
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Lots of Cold War posturing by Russia:
This is especially silly. Next time someone rejects a trade deal, it gives Casus Belli 
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Nice insider account of what's happening in Eastern Ukraine
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On April 24 2014 03:04 Mc wrote:Anyone care to provide insight on why some of the individual countries are opposed? Italy clearly gets a lot of its gas from Russia. Bulgaria is cozy w/ Russia from what I know. Hungary - I guess their government is becoming more authoritarian so that cozies it up to Russia Spain/Portugal(?) (maybe just distance and inactivity in international politics?) Austria against, Germany neutral? Greece, too busy with their own problems :p
Denmark has already been hit with some sanctions by Russia. Denmarks expansive export policy towards Russia and the big trade surplus from exporting particularly agricultural products and a particular beverage is making sanctions costly!
Russias relations with Denmark has been cooling significantly in the last year and it resulted in Russia singling out Denmark as a particular xenophobic place (Russia scores higher in the source I know on that subject.) with an "alien view on homosexuality" (A prominent reason for the deterioration!).
Russia is also starting to prepare for claiming a bigger slice of the arctic sea, Denmark (representing Greenland) and Canada have been fighting over diplomatically and scientifically for years (source)!
When that is said, the danish government is squirming. They have been clear on supporting more sanctions (at a slow but steady progression) but also on never escalating this conflict militaristically. Mostly their hesitation seems like posturing and a tactical move to secure the sanctions won't hit Denmarks economy too hard and to keep in line with Germany and UK in particular. I don't think Denmark is misplaced.
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More journalists being arrested, a continuing disturbing trend.
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Following Kremlin threats about the Lezgin minority in Azerbaijan requiring `protection':
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Royal Navy said it was standard procedure in such cases. I doubt British Warships shadow French, or even American Naval ships when they are passing.
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On April 24 2014 05:47 radiatoren wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2014 03:04 Mc wrote:Anyone care to provide insight on why some of the individual countries are opposed? Italy clearly gets a lot of its gas from Russia. Bulgaria is cozy w/ Russia from what I know. Hungary - I guess their government is becoming more authoritarian so that cozies it up to Russia Spain/Portugal(?) (maybe just distance and inactivity in international politics?) Austria against, Germany neutral? Greece, too busy with their own problems :p Denmark has already been hit with some sanctions by Russia. Denmarks expansive export policy towards Russia and the big trade surplus from exporting particularly agricultural products and a particular beverage is making sanctions costly! Russias relations with Denmark has been cooling significantly in the last year and it resulted in Russia singling out Denmark as a particular xenophobic place (Russia scores higher in the source I know on that subject.) with an "alien view on homosexuality" (A prominent reason for the deterioration!). Russia is also starting to prepare for claiming a bigger slice of the arctic sea, Denmark (representing Greenland) and Canada have been fighting over diplomatically and scientifically for years ( source)! When that is said, the danish government is squirming. They have been clear on supporting more sanctions (at a slow but steady progression) but also on never escalating this conflict militaristically. Mostly their hesitation seems like posturing and a tactical move to secure the sanctions won't hit Denmarks economy too hard and to keep in line with Germany and UK in particular. I don't think Denmark is misplaced.
Interesting info on Denmark - I keep forgetting how potentially significant the Arctic is. It's currently pretty worthless, but it could be like Alaska for the USA at some point in the future.
If only Putin were a member of the village people, we could avoid all this conflict.
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bl8B8tIIgAIs0x2.jpg)
User was warned for this post
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Worrying sign, with the pro-Russian separatists starting up an anti-semite television station while attacking the press to limit reporting on the region, you have to wonder what will happen when the press flee due to safety reasons. Not to mention the elected politicians in the region that have been kidnapped and tortured to death by the separatists.
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Fight fascism with fascism!
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Words don't mean the same in Russia, no wonder they disagree on the meaning of the Geneva agreement.
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Excellent piece:
Mozhaev and his comrades took control of Slavyansk about a week ago. But over the past few days there has been no evident sign that they are receiving material support from Russia. Their foot soldiers have been so short on fuel that they have asked journalists to bring them gasoline in exchange for granting interviews, saying they don’t have enough fuel to go on patrols.
Their leader, Vyacheslav Ponomaryov, a soap manufacturer who took the title of “people’s mayor” after seizing power, has pleaded for assistance from Russian President Vladimir Putin, but has apparently been ignored. “We need guns, you understand? We’re running out of everything but spirit,” he tells TIME. His militia force, he admits, is made up partly of volunteers who have come from Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan and other parts of the former Soviet Union. But Kiev’s cries of a separatist insurgency fueled with money, weapons and troops from the Russian government look out of sync with the reality in Slavyansk.
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By coincidence, he says, he was forced to flee arrest on March 7, in the middle of Russia’s invasion of Crimea. He chose Crimea as his destination. As TIME reported last month, thousands of state-sponsored Russian Cossacks were then streaming into Crimea to aid the Russian troops with that invasion. For most of March, Mozhaev says, he was there along with some of the men from his Cossack battalion, the Wolves’ Hundred, helping in the siege of a Ukrainian military base near the city of Bakhchysarai and guarding a local TV tower. In late March, after Russia annexed the Crimean Peninsula, “we were sitting around down there and wondering what to do next,” he says. “So we decided to go conquer some more historically Russian lands.” Eventually he wound up in Slavyansk, where Ponomaryov was glad to welcome him into his separatist militia.
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The fact that this map isn't entirely yellow says a lot more about the US than it does about Russia. Jesus has our influence in Europe declined that much?
On April 23 2014 22:21 PaleMan wrote:more proofs of russian army troops in Ukraine: + Show Spoiler +User was warned for this post
I can see why Russia is using bears instead of these guys. Bear is less cheesy.
+ Show Spoiler +
In the meantime, despite the grand show between Ukraine and Russia regarding who exactly the militias are in eastern provinces, Ukraine officials are concerned about the Russian forces on the border, pointing to the possibility of the militias being used to "provoke" Russian entrance.
"Ukraine again calls on Russia to immediately remove offensive units of the Russian armed forces from the Russian-Ukrainian border," the foreign ministry said in a statement.
It said that this would comply with Russia's obligations under last week's Geneva accord on de-escalating the crisis.
"There is a danger that armed pro-Russian militants in that part of Ukraine could use the presence of Russian troops near the frontier to provoke their entry into Ukrainian territory," the ministry said.
It said that Ukrainian troops were in the eastern regions "exclusively to protect citizens, irrespective of their ethnicity".
Their preparation for combat was a legitimate response to the threats from Russian officials of the use of force and aggression against Ukraine's territorial integrity.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0423/610361-kerry-ukraine/
EDIT: Speak of the devil. Ukrainian forces are moving towards Slavyansk.
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Polish media reports fighting in Slavyansk. Supposedly Ukrainian forces are pressing into the city.
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On April 23 2014 22:21 PaleMan wrote:more proofs of russian army troops in Ukraine: + Show Spoiler +User was warned for this post
Too much of Red Alert 3?
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videos starting to surface of slavyansk attack now, seems it was on a checkpoint at the outskirts.
rt seems to have the most comprehensive collection of photos and videos at this point:
rt.
4+ apc's and 2 choppers in the skies being tweeted.
that bearded guy (mozhaev) from thetimes article makes another appearance:
Exclusive: Meet the Pro-Russian Separatists of Eastern Ukraine
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Mozhaev and his comrades took control of Slavyansk about a week ago. But over the past few days there has been no evident sign that they are receiving material support from Russia. Their foot soldiers have been so short on fuel that they have asked journalists to bring them gasoline in exchange for granting interviews, saying they don’t have enough fuel to go on patrols.
Their leader, Vyacheslav Ponomaryov, a soap manufacturer who took the title of “people’s mayor” after seizing power, has pleaded for assistance from Russian President Vladimir Putin, but has apparently been ignored. “We need guns, you understand? We’re running out of everything but spirit,” he tells TIME. His militia force, he admits, is made up partly of volunteers who have come from Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan and other parts of the former Soviet Union. But Kiev’s cries of a separatist insurgency fueled with money, weapons and troops from the Russian government look out of sync with the reality in Slavyansk.
... time
maybe the criminal hobbit and his thugs were the ones deemed worthy of a cleanup.
Ukraine: Five dead, one wounded as anti-terror operation continues in Sloviansk
Ukrainian troops have taken control of three checkpoints surrounding the city of Sloviansk in northern Donetsk Oblast. According to the Ukrainian Interior Ministry, five insurgents have been killed and one police officer has been wounded in the attack. belsat
"shot on the spot" looks like more blatant propaganda by kiev.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_preview/7/1/4/3136417.jpg)
