Ukraine Crisis - Page 428

On April 17 2014 00:19 m4ini wrote:


How about you watch that video posted just one posting before you?

That's kinda more than claiming.

On April 17 2014 00:27 Mc wrote:


We don't really know for sure- Russia could have just as easily trained Russian nationals (militaristic thugs, there are a LOT of them in Russia) or trained Ukranian thugs for the past year. Give them some high tech guns, and boom there you go. Also as I said Yanukovich could have been behind this - w/ Russia's support of course.
As to the guy who claimed to be a Russian officer (another video), maybe he was a former officer or just lieing? Obviously, Russians are deeply involved in this unrest but exactly which ones are Russians, which are military, is hard to tell. Maybe, Russia is being 'cautious' and no actual military members are involved. I need harder evidence to be convinced

I meant the part about it being actually members of Russian military in disguise.

On April 17 2014 00:33 m4ini wrote:


Well, there is the famous "flag guy". Also, i said "militia", which is exactly what you're describing. Doesn't make it a protest, still.

edit, gna, fudge.. deleted that part - i said in a response to zeo "militia" and changed it to not engage into a longer discussion



While i agree that there so far is no undenyable proof, there's alot of evidence for that out there. I'd say it's more than considerable. These guys in the video definately had military training, even though they look clumsy. Recently. So if they're not russian military in disguise (might very well be), they definately don't act on their own. Don't know where you come from, but feel free to go into the next army store, buy 20 uniforms of russian standards, including assault rifles and radios.

Let me know how it went.

On April 17 2014 00:57 Mc wrote:

"What is happening is russian soldiers taking of the insignia of their uniforms and taking over government buildings". It's really hard to tell but I'm leaning towards it being Kremlin sponsored something. It's fucked up as hell what they're doing-- it might be even worse than an outright invasion. With an invasion, you at least admit to the world what you're doing. Here they can pretend to be innocent to pro-Russian idiots, and have their support, while still dividing Ukraine. Also, they are dividing and confusing the West. People know it's Russia, but they can't 100% prove it. Germany can say, but oh "we don't have any proof" while Poland is angry as hell because it's so obvious. Putin is such a brilliant manipulator. His KGB training server him well :/

On April 17 2014 00:33 m4ini wrote:


Well, there is the famous "flag guy". Also, i said "militia", which is exactly what you're describing. Doesn't make it a protest, still.

edit, gna, fudge.. deleted that part - i said in a response to zeo "militia" and changed it to not engage into a longer discussion - my bad, you're right.



While i agree that there so far is no undenyable proof, there's alot of evidence for that out there. I'd say it's more than considerable. These guys in the video definately had military training, even though they look clumsy. Recently. So if they're not russian military in disguise (might very well be), they definately don't act on their own. Don't know where you come from, but feel free to go into the next army store, buy 20 uniforms of russian standards, including assault rifles and radios.

Let me know how it went.

On April 17 2014 01:01 m4ini wrote:


My position/opinion is kinda clear, i'm pretty convinced that it's not ukrainians on their own.

That's btw why a UN resolution (even though it would get vetoed, obviously) for a peacekeeping mission would be good. If russia vetos a resolution that basically does what they're claiming to do - just without their propagandamachine in between somewhere, not even Merkel could turn a blind eye to that.

On April 17 2014 02:07 darkness wrote:
It was absolutely clear this shenanigan was planned by Russia the moment separatists have entered an opera house instead of local town hall. I also heard today that a call between Russian generals and separatists has been detected, so there you go.

Excessive use of force by the Berkut special police and other security forces led to the radicalisation of the protest movement, the report found. “Violations related to the Maidan protests should be investigated and addressed in order to ensure accountability of perpetrators,” the report states.

Information gathered so far indicates that 121 people were killed in violence between December 2013 and February 2014. Most acts of severe beatings, torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment were reportedly attributed to the Berkut.

The political aspects of recent developments in Crimea, which Mr Šimonović visited on 21 and 22 March, are beyond the report’s scope. However, the report notes that the situation created before and after the referendum of 16 March, which the General Assembly concluded had “no validity”, raised a number of human rights concerns pertaining to freedom of expression, freedom of assembly and other civil and political rights.

The presence of paramilitary and so-called self-defence groups as well as soldiers without insignia, was not conducive to an environment in which the will of voters could be exercised freely, and the UN Human Rights’ Office delegation received many reports of vote rigging.

“A number of measures taken in Crimea are deeply concerning from a human rights perspective,” the report says. These include the introduction of Russian citizenship, making it difficult for those who opt to maintain their Ukrainian citizenship to stay in Crimea. “The current situation also raises concerns with regard to land and property ownership, wages and pensions, health service, labour rights, education and access to justice,” the report adds.

The authorities in Crimea should also publicly condemn all attacks or harassment against human rights defenders, journalists or any members of the political opposition, the report urges, and ensure full accountability for such acts, through prompt, impartial and effective investigations and prosecutions.

It is widely assessed that while there were some attacks against the ethnic Russian community, these were neither systematic nor widespread. There are also allegations that some participants in the protests and clashes in eastern Ukraine were not from the region, and that some had come from the Russian Federation.

On April 17 2014 05:15 Ghanburighan wrote:
https://twitter.com/usosce/status/456515256534048768

The real question will be whether Russia will once again not show up.

***

This mirrors the language of the EU meeting. Everybody is waiting for a miracle from tomorrow's 4-way negotiations.

https://twitter.com/politico/status/456520398583394304

On April 17 2014 03:22 LegalLord wrote:
I don't think Russia really needed to send troops or incite riots to make the E. Ukraine crisis what it is - the anti-fascist sentiment is pretty strong in East Ukraine. It's more likely that Russia simply put in a token effort to support the anti-govt protesters and they feel more comfortable protesting when they know the Russian army is in position to help them if things get particularly bloody.

On April 17 2014 07:58 Itachii wrote:
Russia is full of shit, that is obvious. But what they are doing in terms of international talk is way beyond hypocrisy, it's just unreal.
I hope that they will get what they deserve someday, once again.