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Russian Federation15 Posts
On March 17 2014 11:00 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 10:51 YasonDinAlt wrote:On March 17 2014 10:20 hunts wrote:On March 17 2014 10:16 zlefin wrote:
The best media is to find someone who just doesn't care about the issue because its' irrelevant to their geopolitical interests.
This new guy reads like a government shill to me; not just a crazy and opinionated actual person, but someone who truly is on a payroll to spread propaganda; are other people getting that vibe to?
Hmm, there might be a good seed for a mafia game in this stuff. He reminds me of a worse grammar zeo, so yes he really does feel like someone who's actually being paid by the government, or like paleman making a new account and trying to sound like a different person. Feel free to call me anything you want. People of critical thinking, who are being able to synthesize their own piont of view could have found a seed of truth in my texts of awqward English) Alas! You know guys, you`re being even more concervative than we on Russian forums. It is often happens there, that someone will come and say "you all are slaves, you are zombies of Russian propaganda". It is rude, you know. But we calmly listen to what he says and only when start persuade him. And you even do not want to read the text, you catch somthing that you can easily disprove, and what else! It`s all over with him - troll, burn. You`re stuck in your opinion and even can not afford a try to think the other way. We are told about Western people, who are free from stereotypes, are well educated professionals that deserve to be an example for us. But I see, that you are the same, with that difference, that I can stand on your side and respect your opinion - cause I assume that there is no "good" way of solving Ucranian crysis, and that military force - is a last means possible to list. But what you say about referendum in Crimea, that it was carried on Russian guns - it`s a bullshit. You can find on youtube alot of video about it. Same with underestimating the power of nazi in Kiev. Europe allready learnaed, what is it, 70 years ago. Seems they firgot about it. We didn`t. I'll be honest man. I was born in dnepropitrovsk ukraine, i lived there until I was 7 years old. I'm pretty sure that region is one of the russian supporting ones. I can speak russian mostly fluently, but I can't read/write it. I can't speak a word of ukranian. I find everything russia is doing to be complete bullshit. I've almost always referred to myself as russian rather than ukranian, because I can speak russian and not ukranian, and because until now many people have never even heard of ukraine. I've never been more ashamed in my life to be born where I was. I feel very sorry for everyone living in ukraine, I feel very sorry for anyone living in russia. I feel very sorry for anyone who is brainwashed enough to be proud to call themselves russian.
I`l be honest too. I do not prove the violence. But your words about my country with not a single word of constructive alternative show me vividly what kind of opponent do I have. And that awakens sme voilence in me.
What are your words if not a brainwashed retranslation if infirmation matrix?
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You should try reading the thread, all of your claims and points have already been refuted multiple times.
Maybe we should have a FAQ or already argued points section so people don't keep bringing the same stuff up over and over again?
Stop defending Russia's blatantly illegal, immoral, and unethical actions; when there were clearly more moral alternatives.
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On March 17 2014 11:25 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 11:22 Sub40APM wrote:On March 17 2014 11:20 darkness wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This propaganda, if true, is really unsportsmanlike. Translation (even though it may be obvious): + Show Spoiler + what do you mean if true? That style of image has been reported by most of Western press in a variety of different locations... Just because it's reported by "most of Western press" doesn't make it any more correct. I mean the photo can be absolutely legitimate, I just take propaganda photos with a grain of salt, especially when it's West vs East because both sides have a reason to mislead people.  So unless you fly to Crimea you cant trust anyone?
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The US is doing the same shit every couple of years. WHERE is your condemnation?
In every thread regarding that.
Where it belongs, here we talk about the shit russia does, not the US.
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On March 17 2014 11:28 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 11:25 darkness wrote:On March 17 2014 11:22 Sub40APM wrote:On March 17 2014 11:20 darkness wrote:+ Show Spoiler +This propaganda, if true, is really unsportsmanlike. Translation (even though it may be obvious): + Show Spoiler + what do you mean if true? That style of image has been reported by most of Western press in a variety of different locations... Just because it's reported by "most of Western press" doesn't make it any more correct. I mean the photo can be absolutely legitimate, I just take propaganda photos with a grain of salt, especially when it's West vs East because both sides have a reason to mislead people. So unless you fly to Crimea you cant trust anyone?
No, I just try to ignore (propaganda) images. See, Russia's military presence in Crimea is a more trustworthy thing to believe in. I'll reiterate as before that I'm against Russia's actions, but I'm trying to buy as less propaganda as possible from both sides (West/Russia). It's just a personal preference, there is no point discussing it here.
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West Ukranians are commonly referred to by Russians, Crimeans, East Ukranians etc. as "fascists."
That's not anything out of the ordinary for a show of support for joining Russia.
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On March 17 2014 11:34 LegalLord wrote:
West Ukranians are commonly referred to by Russians, Crimeans, East Ukranians etc. as "fascists."
That's not anything out of the ordinary for a show of support for joining Russia.
It's possibly some propaganda to come up with an excuse to go further than Crimea. You know, "to protect people" from those imaginary fascists. Russia is not afraid to mislead people to achieve its aims.
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Russian Federation15 Posts
On March 17 2014 11:25 zlefin wrote:
Stop defending Russia's blatantly illegal, immoral, and unethical actions; when there were clearly more moral alternatives.
Perhaps you should - we did so for our theme in sc2tv was 1000 + pages long.
It`s a pity to say, but all these words which I trully respect, has nothing to deal with the reality. It would be a mistake to claim for legal salvation -it is Yanucovich, still. Moral and ethic aspects... well. I`d like to listen about how to paste together two torn apart halfs of Ucraine - Western and Eastern.
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On March 17 2014 11:36 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 11:34 LegalLord wrote:
West Ukranians are commonly referred to by Russians, Crimeans, East Ukranians etc. as "fascists."
That's not anything out of the ordinary for a show of support for joining Russia. It's possibly some propaganda to come up with an excuse to go further than Crimea. You know, "to protect people" from those imaginary fascists. Russia is not afraid to mislead people to achieve their aims.
They don't need convincing. The Ukranian government over the past 20 years speaks for itself.
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On March 17 2014 11:38 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 11:36 darkness wrote:On March 17 2014 11:34 LegalLord wrote:
West Ukranians are commonly referred to by Russians, Crimeans, East Ukranians etc. as "fascists."
That's not anything out of the ordinary for a show of support for joining Russia. It's possibly some propaganda to come up with an excuse to go further than Crimea. You know, "to protect people" from those imaginary fascists. Russia is not afraid to mislead people to achieve their aims. They don't need convincing. The Ukranian government over the past 20 years speaks for itself.
huh?
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On March 17 2014 11:38 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 11:36 darkness wrote:On March 17 2014 11:34 LegalLord wrote:
West Ukranians are commonly referred to by Russians, Crimeans, East Ukranians etc. as "fascists."
That's not anything out of the ordinary for a show of support for joining Russia. It's possibly some propaganda to come up with an excuse to go further than Crimea. You know, "to protect people" from those imaginary fascists. Russia is not afraid to mislead people to achieve their aims. They don't need convincing. The Ukranian government over the past 20 years speaks for itself.
While I'm not knowledgeable about the Ukrainian government for this period, I actually meant that Russia tries to come up with a reason to expand their invasion, e.g. by keep calling others fascists.
Edit: It's such a hypocritical game. It's like if US starts attacking some country (let's say Syria) because, you know, there are communists there. Now, we all know there may not be, but this is Russia's game.
Edit 2: Now that I think about it, US doesn't declare others "communists". Their game is that there were terrorists or nuclear bombs. Shit, what world do we live in... it's the 21st century and politicians still like the war games.
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On March 17 2014 11:41 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 11:38 LegalLord wrote:On March 17 2014 11:36 darkness wrote:On March 17 2014 11:34 LegalLord wrote:
West Ukranians are commonly referred to by Russians, Crimeans, East Ukranians etc. as "fascists."
That's not anything out of the ordinary for a show of support for joining Russia. It's possibly some propaganda to come up with an excuse to go further than Crimea. You know, "to protect people" from those imaginary fascists. Russia is not afraid to mislead people to achieve their aims. They don't need convincing. The Ukranian government over the past 20 years speaks for itself. While I'm not knowledgeable about the Ukrainian government for this period, I actually meant that Russia tries to come up with a reason to expand their invasion, e.g. by keep calling others fascists.
Crimeans call the Ukranian government fascist too. So do a surprising number of western sources, if you look around.
About the Ukranian government I will simply say this: those of non-Russian ethnicity have good reason to vote yes on the referendum. Russia is a much more stable country than Ukraine and the past 20 years have shown that. Back when the USSR collapsed, Crimea voted to join Ukraine. Now they don't, and with good reason.
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On March 17 2014 11:46 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 11:41 darkness wrote:On March 17 2014 11:38 LegalLord wrote:On March 17 2014 11:36 darkness wrote:On March 17 2014 11:34 LegalLord wrote:
West Ukranians are commonly referred to by Russians, Crimeans, East Ukranians etc. as "fascists."
That's not anything out of the ordinary for a show of support for joining Russia. It's possibly some propaganda to come up with an excuse to go further than Crimea. You know, "to protect people" from those imaginary fascists. Russia is not afraid to mislead people to achieve their aims. They don't need convincing. The Ukranian government over the past 20 years speaks for itself. While I'm not knowledgeable about the Ukrainian government for this period, I actually meant that Russia tries to come up with a reason to expand their invasion, e.g. by keep calling others fascists. Crimeans call the Ukranian government fascist too. So do a surprising number of western sources, if you look around. About the Ukranian government I will simply say this: those of non-Russian ethnicity have good reason to vote yes on the referendum. Russia is a much more stable country than Ukraine and the past 20 years have shown that. Back when the USSR collapsed, Crimea voted to join Ukraine. Now they don't, and with good reason.
While a referendum itself is democratic, I personally don't think the time was right for one, especially with Russian military's presence. That's not democratic, and it smells like rigged elections. If the referendum was after Ukraine had calmed down, then it would have made more sense. Keyword describing Russia in this case: opportunistic.
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On March 17 2014 11:11 YasonDinAlt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 10:32 m4ini wrote:On March 17 2014 10:28 YasonDinAlt wrote:On March 17 2014 10:09 m4ini wrote:On March 17 2014 10:06 YasonDinAlt wrote:On March 17 2014 09:39 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 17 2014 09:22 YasonDinAlt wrote:On March 17 2014 09:11 Gorsameth wrote:On March 17 2014 09:07 YasonDinAlt wrote:
Snip very long post You deny an invasion that has clear proof. Yes Russia is allowed troops inside Crimea. No those Troops are not allowed to set up roadblocks and blockade Ukraine military installations. Therefor there is little point arguing with yet another victim of Russian propaganda. I even don`t see a reason for arguing, because we are both wictims of propaganda, me-of Russian, you-of Ucranian/European. Journalistic objectiveness is a myth. All that concerns to reality - is a media policy. Be sure I do not neglect the influence of local interpretation. I just try to show to anyone interested the other point of wiev. And by the way, those blocks you mentioned - there are no Russian military forces around there. That motion pictures from Ucranian media fill me with healthy laughter. They remind me books of Tom Clancy. Then everything is slime and there's no point in discussing anything. Enjoy that bleak world. I prefer to scrutinize sources and to choose which ones are trustworthy, and which are not. Like people from every other country except for Russia, (and Zeo  ), I choose independent media in this case. And their reports contradict what you said. The fact that it's more likely that your perception is warped rather than ours is supported by the UN security council vote. Even China didn't support Russia's position, every other country there voted in favour of the US resolution. This includes such `Western Countries' such as Chad, Argentina, Chile, Nigeria, Jordan and Rwanda. Face it, Russia is the only country that's actively distorting facts (such as claiming that Russian troops are not Russian troops, you can just by howitzers from any local shop....), and all other countries are calling Russia out on its bullshit. You don`t want to catch the fact that is screaming from the fragment you just qouted - we are wery alike. I also choose media sources carefully. But I repeat, there is no objectiveness in media. There is editorial policy. It`s the same thing that if you come to you girlfriend and say "My relation to you is objective". Are you a robot? Doubt that. Same with the journalists. Pray you catch an example. According to that UN security council vote on resolution.... well, I get in my mind a country, who didn`t give a sh.. on that restrictive resolutions and bombed European cities with thiusands victims of civillians three times for the last 10 years. Russia? Nope. USSR? Mistake again. The country of objective journalists. the country which fight for peace inpiring war crysises - USA! Applause to the last stronghold of freedom! USA inspired takeover in Ucraine, not Russia. It`s US who invested 5 billion in Ucranian nationalizm since 1991. But it is Rissia who will deal with it. Just like with Syria. What? Your objective media don`t have a string about that? Sorry. There's more media than just american. Some are even independant, who would've thought. What's your opinion on the videos showing totally not russian soldiers? Indeed they are. And I saw that video a week ago, and a dosen of other videos, very alike. I allready told that I can use YouTube. But again: what is your opinion on Crimea`s newly elected government request to Russian government to provide security diring the preparations to referendum? Why do you neglect that the right of Crimea people to be independent from Kiev could be guarded by Russia? And towards all that hater with thei sarcastic murmuring "Putin sad that`s true so thats true... next lvl troll" - when speaking about the invasion I mean the invasion into continental part of Ucraine, with which Ucranian media and government frightens sitizens of the South-East of the country. By the way, those sitizens are avaiting the invasion thmselves, for they are 70% Russian and are fed up woth that mess in Kiev. So how do you sell it as "fact" that there's no russian soldiers in crimea? The russians are allowed 26k soldiers in their bases, true - but i bet they're not allowed to block military installations. That, my friend, is an act of aggression. And that started long before there was a referendum. And no, it's not russias right to invade (yes, blocking military installations, laying minefields, shipping howitzers which are an offensive part of the military is an invasion). PS: it's 58% russians, not 70. But since 100 is close enough to 50, i suppose it's fair enough. But since you're so in favor of legitimations etc, we had that just a couple of pages ago: what do you think about the fact that this referendum is illegal based on the constitution? Wait, don't answer, i pretty much know where this is going. What I sold as a fact was just the statement that there is no Russian troops in Ucraine. For me, being Russian, Ucraine consists of 26 continental regions of Ucraine itself AND an autonomous republic of Crimea. See the difference?
This is amazing.
"There are no russian troops in Ukraine because the part of Ukraine that they invaded is actually not part of the Ukraine anymore after they invaded it. "
Next in: Germany never started WW2 because there was no invasion of Poland, because Poland does not exist, only some additional german and soviet provinces.
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Russian Federation15 Posts
On March 17 2014 11:36 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 11:34 LegalLord wrote:
West Ukranians are commonly referred to by Russians, Crimeans, East Ukranians etc. as "fascists."
That's not anything out of the ordinary for a show of support for joining Russia. It's possibly some propaganda to come up with an excuse to go further than Crimea. You know, "to protect people" from those imaginary fascists. Russia is not afraid to mislead people to achieve its aims.
What is a state if not an institute of legal violence. We, Russian, have seen a lot of suffering of the Ucraine during 23 years of "independence" since the collapse of the USSR. We want it to be stopped. Now our president wants to regain the borders which will suit cultural, economical, religious and historical reasons. You wouldn`t beleive in that, but the support of this decision among a nation is about 75%. And we would not care about the UN resolutions and sanctions.
We live in interesting time. The world crysis repeats as 100 and 200 years ago. Let`s see whose balls are harder. My stake is on Putin.
And yes, we are aware of the nuclear conflict and we realise the consequences. So let us regain our country, I you`re aware too.
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On March 17 2014 11:53 darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 11:46 LegalLord wrote:On March 17 2014 11:41 darkness wrote:On March 17 2014 11:38 LegalLord wrote:On March 17 2014 11:36 darkness wrote:On March 17 2014 11:34 LegalLord wrote:
West Ukranians are commonly referred to by Russians, Crimeans, East Ukranians etc. as "fascists."
That's not anything out of the ordinary for a show of support for joining Russia. It's possibly some propaganda to come up with an excuse to go further than Crimea. You know, "to protect people" from those imaginary fascists. Russia is not afraid to mislead people to achieve their aims. They don't need convincing. The Ukranian government over the past 20 years speaks for itself. While I'm not knowledgeable about the Ukrainian government for this period, I actually meant that Russia tries to come up with a reason to expand their invasion, e.g. by keep calling others fascists. Crimeans call the Ukranian government fascist too. So do a surprising number of western sources, if you look around. About the Ukranian government I will simply say this: those of non-Russian ethnicity have good reason to vote yes on the referendum. Russia is a much more stable country than Ukraine and the past 20 years have shown that. Back when the USSR collapsed, Crimea voted to join Ukraine. Now they don't, and with good reason. While a referendum itself is democratic, I personally don't think the time was right for one, especially with Russian military's presence. That's not democratic, and it smells like rigged elections.
I suppose the pro-Russian enthusiasm throughout Crimea is rigged as well?
There was never a question of how Crimea would vote. Not among those familiar with the situation, at any rate.
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On March 17 2014 11:58 YasonDinAlt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 11:36 darkness wrote:On March 17 2014 11:34 LegalLord wrote:
West Ukranians are commonly referred to by Russians, Crimeans, East Ukranians etc. as "fascists."
That's not anything out of the ordinary for a show of support for joining Russia. It's possibly some propaganda to come up with an excuse to go further than Crimea. You know, "to protect people" from those imaginary fascists. Russia is not afraid to mislead people to achieve its aims. What is a state if not an institute of legal violence. We, Russian, have seen a lot of suffering of the Ucraine during 23 years of "independence" since the collapse of the USSR. We want it to be stopped. Now our president wants to regain the borders which will suit cultural, economical, religious and historical reasons. You wouldn`t beleive in that, but the support of this decision among a nation is about 75%. And we would not care about the UN resolutions and sanctions. We live in interesting time. The world crysis repeats as 100 and 200 years ago. Let`s see whose balls are harder. My stake is on Putin. And yes, we are aware of the nuclear conflict and we realise the consequences. So let us regain our country, I you`re aware too.
Now you are showing your real colours.
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On March 17 2014 11:58 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 11:53 darkness wrote:On March 17 2014 11:46 LegalLord wrote:On March 17 2014 11:41 darkness wrote:On March 17 2014 11:38 LegalLord wrote:On March 17 2014 11:36 darkness wrote:On March 17 2014 11:34 LegalLord wrote:
West Ukranians are commonly referred to by Russians, Crimeans, East Ukranians etc. as "fascists."
That's not anything out of the ordinary for a show of support for joining Russia. It's possibly some propaganda to come up with an excuse to go further than Crimea. You know, "to protect people" from those imaginary fascists. Russia is not afraid to mislead people to achieve their aims. They don't need convincing. The Ukranian government over the past 20 years speaks for itself. While I'm not knowledgeable about the Ukrainian government for this period, I actually meant that Russia tries to come up with a reason to expand their invasion, e.g. by keep calling others fascists. Crimeans call the Ukranian government fascist too. So do a surprising number of western sources, if you look around. About the Ukranian government I will simply say this: those of non-Russian ethnicity have good reason to vote yes on the referendum. Russia is a much more stable country than Ukraine and the past 20 years have shown that. Back when the USSR collapsed, Crimea voted to join Ukraine. Now they don't, and with good reason. While a referendum itself is democratic, I personally don't think the time was right for one, especially with Russian military's presence. That's not democratic, and it smells like rigged elections. I suppose the pro-Russian enthusiasm throughout Crimea is rigged as well? There was never a question of how Crimea would vote. Not among those familiar with the situation, at any rate.
I understand the majority of population is ethnic Russian, but you are ignoring the bigger picture. Russia's military presence and Ukraine's political crisis should lead to unstable, not credible elections. For a referendum to happen, all other matters should be resolved first in order to produce 'straight' votes. I hope anyone reasonable would agree with this. Just think about it.
Possible analogy:
1) You vote for something.
2) You vote for something while you're at a state of anger.
Which one is better? Obviously the first because you're calmed down, hence my view.
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Russian Federation15 Posts
On March 17 2014 11:55 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 11:11 YasonDinAlt wrote:On March 17 2014 10:32 m4ini wrote:On March 17 2014 10:28 YasonDinAlt wrote:On March 17 2014 10:09 m4ini wrote:On March 17 2014 10:06 YasonDinAlt wrote:On March 17 2014 09:39 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 17 2014 09:22 YasonDinAlt wrote:On March 17 2014 09:11 Gorsameth wrote:On March 17 2014 09:07 YasonDinAlt wrote:
Snip very long post You deny an invasion that has clear proof. Yes Russia is allowed troops inside Crimea. No those Troops are not allowed to set up roadblocks and blockade Ukraine military installations. Therefor there is little point arguing with yet another victim of Russian propaganda. I even don`t see a reason for arguing, because we are both wictims of propaganda, me-of Russian, you-of Ucranian/European. Journalistic objectiveness is a myth. All that concerns to reality - is a media policy. Be sure I do not neglect the influence of local interpretation. I just try to show to anyone interested the other point of wiev. And by the way, those blocks you mentioned - there are no Russian military forces around there. That motion pictures from Ucranian media fill me with healthy laughter. They remind me books of Tom Clancy. Then everything is slime and there's no point in discussing anything. Enjoy that bleak world. I prefer to scrutinize sources and to choose which ones are trustworthy, and which are not. Like people from every other country except for Russia, (and Zeo ), I choose independent media in this case. And their reports contradict what you said. The fact that it's more likely that your perception is warped rather than ours is supported by the UN security council vote. Even China didn't support Russia's position, every other country there voted in favour of the US resolution. This includes such `Western Countries' such as Chad, Argentina, Chile, Nigeria, Jordan and Rwanda. Face it, Russia is the only country that's actively distorting facts (such as claiming that Russian troops are not Russian troops, you can just by howitzers from any local shop....), and all other countries are calling Russia out on its bullshit. You don`t want to catch the fact that is screaming from the fragment you just qouted - we are wery alike. I also choose media sources carefully. But I repeat, there is no objectiveness in media. There is editorial policy. It`s the same thing that if you come to you girlfriend and say "My relation to you is objective". Are you a robot? Doubt that. Same with the journalists. Pray you catch an example. According to that UN security council vote on resolution.... well, I get in my mind a country, who didn`t give a sh.. on that restrictive resolutions and bombed European cities with thiusands victims of civillians three times for the last 10 years. Russia? Nope. USSR? Mistake again. The country of objective journalists. the country which fight for peace inpiring war crysises - USA! Applause to the last stronghold of freedom! USA inspired takeover in Ucraine, not Russia. It`s US who invested 5 billion in Ucranian nationalizm since 1991. But it is Rissia who will deal with it. Just like with Syria. What? Your objective media don`t have a string about that? Sorry. There's more media than just american. Some are even independant, who would've thought. What's your opinion on the videos showing totally not russian soldiers? Indeed they are. And I saw that video a week ago, and a dosen of other videos, very alike. I allready told that I can use YouTube. But again: what is your opinion on Crimea`s newly elected government request to Russian government to provide security diring the preparations to referendum? Why do you neglect that the right of Crimea people to be independent from Kiev could be guarded by Russia? And towards all that hater with thei sarcastic murmuring "Putin sad that`s true so thats true... next lvl troll" - when speaking about the invasion I mean the invasion into continental part of Ucraine, with which Ucranian media and government frightens sitizens of the South-East of the country. By the way, those sitizens are avaiting the invasion thmselves, for they are 70% Russian and are fed up woth that mess in Kiev. So how do you sell it as "fact" that there's no russian soldiers in crimea? The russians are allowed 26k soldiers in their bases, true - but i bet they're not allowed to block military installations. That, my friend, is an act of aggression. And that started long before there was a referendum. And no, it's not russias right to invade (yes, blocking military installations, laying minefields, shipping howitzers which are an offensive part of the military is an invasion). PS: it's 58% russians, not 70. But since 100 is close enough to 50, i suppose it's fair enough. But since you're so in favor of legitimations etc, we had that just a couple of pages ago: what do you think about the fact that this referendum is illegal based on the constitution? Wait, don't answer, i pretty much know where this is going. What I sold as a fact was just the statement that there is no Russian troops in Ucraine. For me, being Russian, Ucraine consists of 26 continental regions of Ucraine itself AND an autonomous republic of Crimea. See the difference? This is amazing. "There are no russian troops in Ukraine because the part of Ukraine that they invaded is actually not part of the Ukraine anymore after they invaded it. " Next in: Germany never started WW2 because there was no invasion of Poland, because Poland does not exist, only some additional german and soviet provinces.
The Crimea became the part of the Ucraine in 1954, it was a gift of Khrushev. After 1991 Crimea claimed it`s independnce from the Ucraine for several times.
But what am I saying - me English speaking friends know the history of my country the way better than me.
You should either follow the historical logic, or remain in your world of brainwashed illusion of nazi Germany. I
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On March 17 2014 11:46 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 11:41 darkness wrote:On March 17 2014 11:38 LegalLord wrote:On March 17 2014 11:36 darkness wrote:On March 17 2014 11:34 LegalLord wrote:
West Ukranians are commonly referred to by Russians, Crimeans, East Ukranians etc. as "fascists."
That's not anything out of the ordinary for a show of support for joining Russia. It's possibly some propaganda to come up with an excuse to go further than Crimea. You know, "to protect people" from those imaginary fascists. Russia is not afraid to mislead people to achieve their aims. They don't need convincing. The Ukranian government over the past 20 years speaks for itself. While I'm not knowledgeable about the Ukrainian government for this period, I actually meant that Russia tries to come up with a reason to expand their invasion, e.g. by keep calling others fascists. Crimeans call the Ukranian government fascist too. So do a surprising number of western sources, if you look around. About the Ukranian government I will simply say this: those of non-Russian ethnicity have good reason to vote yes on the referendum. Russia is a much more stable country than Ukraine and the past 20 years have shown that.
What are you talking about. Russia has had: Tanks firing on Parliament and Constitution repeatedly canceled, 2 bloody wars in Chechnya, terror attacks throughout Russia, and an economy wholly dependent on oil/gas exports.
Ukraine is just poor and corrupt, but it doesnt have some vague imperialistic ideology actively promoted by its government and apparently embraced by at least a large minority of its people and a one party regime that will never let go of power voluntarily.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://images.focus-news.net/adeff32399ecfd81f546d41b037e3962.jpg)
