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Do you have any proof that Russian government is responsible for these anti-Tatar actions? I know it's a very useful excuse to call Russians evil nazis but it's not nice to throw accusations without hard evidence.
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On March 14 2014 20:41 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 20:33 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 20:31 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 14 2014 20:28 Tonttu wrote:On March 14 2014 20:23 Roman666 wrote:On March 14 2014 20:13 zeo wrote:On March 14 2014 20:11 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 20:08 zeo wrote:
Oh wow, an English language poll on the internet with a sample of 650 people who might or might not be from eastern Ukraine. And its on twitter so it must be true! So how does this make it more stupid than russias politicians, jumping on an incident that they (pro-russians) started? You conveniently forget to comment about that, all the time. Almost as if you deliberately try to dodge the kindergardenpolitics coming from russia. Yes, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from western Ukraine on a bus and sent them to Donetsk. No, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from Russian Federation on a bus and sent them to Donetsk. There has been evidence about that kind of stuff happening. Remember that poor Russian lady who was spotted in like 4 different city's pro-russian protests as like 4 different person.. And the `tourists' were reported about when they entered Donetsk days before: All lies. Don't try to open zeos eyes, he won't listen anyway. Although it's interesting to see how he desperately tries to find reasons to justify the actions he so condemned on the ukrainian side. What Ukrainian side? I am on the side of Ukraine that wants to protect itself from the devastation in the west of the country. Busloads of radicals were brought in from the west of the country to continue setting fire to and destroying public property that they had grown so fond of in their part of the country, and people went out onto the street to defend their city from thugs. If a thousand people came to my city to try to violently overthrow the people that my city democratically elected I would defend my city too. No amount of fake polls and propaganda can take away a persons right to defend their property and city from thugs.
You have no valid arguments and 0 evidences, 0... You are just spitting bullshit and defending a disgusting cause.
So for you russian citizens have the right to barge in another country and kill people because Putin who controls the media, tells you they are in danger?
I shouldn't even say russians but slav russians and serbians because other etnicities have zero power in Russia and are treated like shit and separatists. Like one of your fellow pro dictature guy told me, nationalism is punished in Russia. Yes all nationalisms are punished in Russia exept the white / slav nationalism, which has been in power since the empire.
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On March 14 2014 21:02 Sent. wrote:
Do you have any proof that Russian government is responsible for these anti-Tatar actions? I know it's a very useful excuse to call Russians evil nazis but it's not nice to throw accusations without hard evidence.
I don't think there will ever be proof that the `russian govt.' is responsible for the violence. What is being said is that the Tatars did not face violence, burnings of property, their homes marked with X's, etc. before Russian troops occupied Crimea, a pro-Russia puppet was installed as the Crimean PM, and pro-Russia thugs started roaming around, breaking stuff (like the equipment of journalists, etc). So, no, there is no proof that the Russian govt. wants to harm Tatars, but there's every indication that they have caused the endangerment of this minority by their actions, and, as the Tatars are the largest minority in Crimea which is vehemently opposed to the referendum, it's in Russia's interest to `persuade' them into compliance. While I'm all for requiring solid proof, I don't see a compelling competing narrative to an account in which Russia's actions led to the detriment of the well being and safety of Tatars.
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On March 14 2014 21:02 Sent. wrote:
Do you have any proof that Russian government is responsible for these anti-Tatar actions? I know it's a very useful excuse to call Russians evil nazis but it's not nice to throw accusations without hard evidence.
It doesn't matter if it's the government or not, these anti Tatars actions were commited by pro-russians so even if it's not directly the military it's people who believe in the russian propaganda.
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On March 14 2014 20:55 Ramong wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 20:41 zeo wrote:
No amount of fake polls and propaganda can take away a persons right to defend their property and city from thugs. Exactly how are that poll fake? Care to elaborate?
It cannot be taken seriously because it was done by a special interest group. There are many ways to manipulate with polls, from outright making up numbers to biased questions.
Asking 'do you think Yanukovych should have stepped down?', is not the same as 'do you support Maidan?'. There are many people who didn't like Yanukovych, yet despised Maidan and the cowboyism that it brought.
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On March 14 2014 20:43 Roman666 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 20:41 zeo wrote:On March 14 2014 20:33 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 20:31 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 14 2014 20:28 Tonttu wrote:On March 14 2014 20:23 Roman666 wrote:On March 14 2014 20:13 zeo wrote:On March 14 2014 20:11 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 20:08 zeo wrote:
Oh wow, an English language poll on the internet with a sample of 650 people who might or might not be from eastern Ukraine. And its on twitter so it must be true! So how does this make it more stupid than russias politicians, jumping on an incident that they (pro-russians) started? You conveniently forget to comment about that, all the time. Almost as if you deliberately try to dodge the kindergardenpolitics coming from russia. Yes, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from western Ukraine on a bus and sent them to Donetsk. No, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from Russian Federation on a bus and sent them to Donetsk. There has been evidence about that kind of stuff happening. Remember that poor Russian lady who was spotted in like 4 different city's pro-russian protests as like 4 different person.. And the `tourists' were reported about when they entered Donetsk days before: https://twitter.com/HTSolomon/status/443164853113733121 All lies. Don't try to open zeos eyes, he won't listen anyway. Although it's interesting to see how he desperately tries to find reasons to justify the actions he so condemned on the ukrainian side. What Ukrainian side? I am on the side of Ukraine that wants to protect itself from the devastation in the west of the country. Busloads of radicals were brought in from the west of the country to continue setting fire to and destroying public property they had grown so fond of in their part of the country and people went out onto the street to defend their city from thugs. If a thousand people came to my city to try to violently overthrow the people of my city democratically elected I would defend my city too. No amount of fake polls and propaganda can take away a persons right to defend their property and city from thugs. I surely agree with you on that part. Especially when the thugs are brought in from across eastern border to incite violence.
Seriously buses of thugs armed with bats coming across from Russian border ...... and how do they get there, magically jump over Ukrainian border control.
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On March 14 2014 20:28 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 20:24 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 14 2014 20:16 zeo wrote:On March 14 2014 20:12 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 14 2014 20:08 zeo wrote:
Oh wow, an English language poll on the internet with a sample of 650 people who might or might not be from eastern Ukraine. And its on twitter so it must be true! Back into your hole of desinformation, Zeo. The poll had 2000 phone interviews (more than enough for a statistically relevant sample). Source: Reuters.***
BUDAPEST—The Visegrad Four countries—Slovakia, the Czech Republic, Poland and Hungary—Friday signed a pact on a joint military body within the European Union, in response to the escalating Ukrainian crisis.
The deal involves joint military exercises, coordinated defense procurement and joint defense development of the four central European countries.
The move comes after pro-Russian forces have gained control of Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula.
The Visegrad Four countries are the most exposed and most vulnerable to the Ukrainian situation, Hungarian Foreign Affairs Minister Janos Martonyi said Thursday after meeting his V4 counterparts.
Three of the four countries have borders with Ukraine, and groups of ethnic minorities of these countries are also living in Ukraine.
-WSJ
Yeah man, why do we even hold elections anymore? Why waste all that money on voting when we can make a phone poll of 2000 people in a country where 45 million people live and have the exact percentages for anything without any bias. Millions of dollars are being wasted for nothing people, lets all bow down to the almighty phone poll. Don't be stupid. A poll is meant to indicate people's preferences. Polling methods PREDICT the outcome of elections. The sample size above is sufficient to predict to a few percentage points. Elections provide a mandate for governing. Elections themselves are coming on the 25th of May. Thanks to the poll, I know where my money lies. Edit: Also note that Avaaz is actually a respectable organization, but it only funded the poll (they're expensive you know, someone has to make the calls and crunch the numbers), the professional polling firm was listed in the article. After 200+ pages, that boat is sailed.
Made me giggle. On the other hand this thread would be so much less interesting without his idiocy oh so very special view on things.
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On March 14 2014 21:17 kukarachaa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 20:43 Roman666 wrote:On March 14 2014 20:41 zeo wrote:On March 14 2014 20:33 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 20:31 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 14 2014 20:28 Tonttu wrote:On March 14 2014 20:23 Roman666 wrote:On March 14 2014 20:13 zeo wrote:On March 14 2014 20:11 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 20:08 zeo wrote:
Oh wow, an English language poll on the internet with a sample of 650 people who might or might not be from eastern Ukraine. And its on twitter so it must be true! So how does this make it more stupid than russias politicians, jumping on an incident that they (pro-russians) started? You conveniently forget to comment about that, all the time. Almost as if you deliberately try to dodge the kindergardenpolitics coming from russia. Yes, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from western Ukraine on a bus and sent them to Donetsk. No, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from Russian Federation on a bus and sent them to Donetsk. There has been evidence about that kind of stuff happening. Remember that poor Russian lady who was spotted in like 4 different city's pro-russian protests as like 4 different person.. And the `tourists' were reported about when they entered Donetsk days before: https://twitter.com/HTSolomon/status/443164853113733121 All lies. Don't try to open zeos eyes, he won't listen anyway. Although it's interesting to see how he desperately tries to find reasons to justify the actions he so condemned on the ukrainian side. What Ukrainian side? I am on the side of Ukraine that wants to protect itself from the devastation in the west of the country. Busloads of radicals were brought in from the west of the country to continue setting fire to and destroying public property they had grown so fond of in their part of the country and people went out onto the street to defend their city from thugs. If a thousand people came to my city to try to violently overthrow the people of my city democratically elected I would defend my city too. No amount of fake polls and propaganda can take away a persons right to defend their property and city from thugs. I surely agree with you on that part. Especially when the thugs are brought in from across eastern border to incite violence. Seriously buses of thugs armed with bats coming across from Russian border ...... and how do they get there, magically jump over Ukrainian border control.
I've said it before in this thread, my girlfriends father has two long-haul trucks trapped in the Ukraine for about 2 months now. Totally legit papers from Russia with cargo from Russia and they can't even leave Ukraine into Russia. One is trying to get through into Belorussia, the other over Romania. Please tell me how these people are border hoping so easily.
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On March 14 2014 21:14 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 20:55 Ramong wrote:On March 14 2014 20:41 zeo wrote:
No amount of fake polls and propaganda can take away a persons right to defend their property and city from thugs. Exactly how are that poll fake? Care to elaborate? It cannot be taken seriously because it was done by a special interest group. There are many ways to manipulate with polls, from outright making up numbers to biased questions. Asking 'do you think Yanukovych should have stepped down?', is not the same as 'do you support Maidan?'. There are many people who didn't like Yanukovych, yet despised Maidan and the cowboyism that it brought.
are you against the violence caused by pro-russian protesters ?
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
zeo talking about fake polls...and it's not russian ones? lol
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lol reading just 3 posts from zeo I can already see how biased his responses are. It's so funny.
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On March 14 2014 21:17 kukarachaa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 20:43 Roman666 wrote:On March 14 2014 20:41 zeo wrote:On March 14 2014 20:33 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 20:31 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 14 2014 20:28 Tonttu wrote:On March 14 2014 20:23 Roman666 wrote:On March 14 2014 20:13 zeo wrote:On March 14 2014 20:11 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 20:08 zeo wrote:
Oh wow, an English language poll on the internet with a sample of 650 people who might or might not be from eastern Ukraine. And its on twitter so it must be true! So how does this make it more stupid than russias politicians, jumping on an incident that they (pro-russians) started? You conveniently forget to comment about that, all the time. Almost as if you deliberately try to dodge the kindergardenpolitics coming from russia. Yes, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from western Ukraine on a bus and sent them to Donetsk. No, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from Russian Federation on a bus and sent them to Donetsk. There has been evidence about that kind of stuff happening. Remember that poor Russian lady who was spotted in like 4 different city's pro-russian protests as like 4 different person.. And the `tourists' were reported about when they entered Donetsk days before: https://twitter.com/HTSolomon/status/443164853113733121 All lies. Don't try to open zeos eyes, he won't listen anyway. Although it's interesting to see how he desperately tries to find reasons to justify the actions he so condemned on the ukrainian side. What Ukrainian side? I am on the side of Ukraine that wants to protect itself from the devastation in the west of the country. Busloads of radicals were brought in from the west of the country to continue setting fire to and destroying public property they had grown so fond of in their part of the country and people went out onto the street to defend their city from thugs. If a thousand people came to my city to try to violently overthrow the people of my city democratically elected I would defend my city too. No amount of fake polls and propaganda can take away a persons right to defend their property and city from thugs. I surely agree with you on that part. Especially when the thugs are brought in from across eastern border to incite violence. Seriously buses of thugs armed with bats coming across from Russian border ...... and how do they get there, magically jump over Ukrainian border control.
You guys are clutching at straws.
Well, why would they be stopped? Tens of people, perhaps a hundred, is nothing for a national border. Russians do not need a visa to cross the border, so there's no need to check them. And carrying a bat across the border isn't illegal. If they were wielding one at the border, they'd probably be stopped. But I've personally traveled with a baseball bat in my bag across a border. It's perfectly legal.
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A lot of people have been giving me crap in this thread when I've compared Putin's recent actions to Hitler's in 1938.
However, today, Timothy Snyder, a professor of history at Yale did the same thing in his piece to CNN:
As with Putin today in Ukraine, Hitler in 1938 in Austria based his claim on the need to protect fellow ethnics.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/05/opinion/russia-ukraine-austria/?iref=obinsite
Hillary Clinton has also made the same comparison.
Maybe it isn't so far-fetched.
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On March 14 2014 21:27 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 21:17 kukarachaa wrote:On March 14 2014 20:43 Roman666 wrote:On March 14 2014 20:41 zeo wrote:On March 14 2014 20:33 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 20:31 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 14 2014 20:28 Tonttu wrote:On March 14 2014 20:23 Roman666 wrote:On March 14 2014 20:13 zeo wrote:On March 14 2014 20:11 m4ini wrote:
[quote]
So how does this make it more stupid than russias politicians, jumping on an incident that they (pro-russians) started?
You conveniently forget to comment about that, all the time. Almost as if you deliberately try to dodge the kindergardenpolitics coming from russia. Yes, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from western Ukraine on a bus and sent them to Donetsk. No, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from Russian Federation on a bus and sent them to Donetsk. There has been evidence about that kind of stuff happening. Remember that poor Russian lady who was spotted in like 4 different city's pro-russian protests as like 4 different person.. And the `tourists' were reported about when they entered Donetsk days before: https://twitter.com/HTSolomon/status/443164853113733121 All lies. Don't try to open zeos eyes, he won't listen anyway. Although it's interesting to see how he desperately tries to find reasons to justify the actions he so condemned on the ukrainian side. What Ukrainian side? I am on the side of Ukraine that wants to protect itself from the devastation in the west of the country. Busloads of radicals were brought in from the west of the country to continue setting fire to and destroying public property they had grown so fond of in their part of the country and people went out onto the street to defend their city from thugs. If a thousand people came to my city to try to violently overthrow the people of my city democratically elected I would defend my city too. No amount of fake polls and propaganda can take away a persons right to defend their property and city from thugs. I surely agree with you on that part. Especially when the thugs are brought in from across eastern border to incite violence. Seriously buses of thugs armed with bats coming across from Russian border ...... and how do they get there, magically jump over Ukrainian border control. You guys are clutching at straws. Well, why would they be stopped? Tens of people, perhaps a hundred, is nothing for a national border. Russians do not need a visa to cross the border, so there's no need to check them. And carrying a bat across the border isn't illegal. If they were wielding one at the border, they'd probably be stopped. But I've personally traveled with a baseball bat in my bag across a border. It's perfectly legal.
Where is the evidence these people crossed the border, is there a picture, a video, a document in Ukraine that can justify the claim that over 1000 people crossed into Ukraine with weapons?
Nobody in Europe plays baseball, a bus full of people carrying baseball bast would be suspicious, no? Why no evidence?
A thousand people is a lot of buses. Show me the 50 or more buses with Russian plates parked in Donetsk.
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On March 12 2014 01:06 -Archangel- wrote:
Me, I like living. And I like to make choices that result in less total casulties.
But the biggest casualty of all is the freedom of those in Crimea. You didn't count that did you? Because you take it for granted.
If there was nothing worth dying for in the world, then it wouldn't be worth living in.
And if the United States was to send an army to Ukraine to free Crimea, I'd gladly be part of it. I'd be proud to be in fact. I'd imagine you'd gladly sit on the sidelines. But someday, you might be a slave with that kind of attitude. And I might be the one freeing you.
Then you'll understand.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On March 14 2014 21:29 BronzeKnee wrote:A lot of people have been giving me crap in this thread when I've compared Putin's recent actions to Hitler's in 1938. However, today, Timothy Snyder, a professor of history at Yale did the same thing in his piece to CNN: Show nested quote +As with Putin today in Ukraine, Hitler in 1938 in Austria based his claim on the need to protect fellow ethnics. http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/05/opinion/russia-ukraine-austria/?iref=obinsiteHillary Clinton has also made the same comparison. Maybe it isn't so far-fetched.
it's not far fetched at all. though putin would not start another world war or mass murder people.
the hitler move looks really bad because it was done by hitler, but similar moves have been done elsewhere in history without the subsequent evnts.
still, the western weakness due to not wanting to drive away the russian oligarch dirty money is showing. the UK especially is a joke
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@Zeo
Am I not European because I play baseball (technically softball, I guess).
Stop spouting nonsense. There is evidence in the media, we presented that evidence in this thread already. But you don't care about evidence. You never respond when we show you cold hard facts which refute your nonsense claims. You never admit that what you say is false and misleading. So why I would I bother re-posting the same stuff over and over again just because you write down a question. Everyone in this thread, including people sympathetic to Russia, know to distance themselves from you.
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On March 14 2014 21:35 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 21:29 BronzeKnee wrote:A lot of people have been giving me crap in this thread when I've compared Putin's recent actions to Hitler's in 1938. However, today, Timothy Snyder, a professor of history at Yale did the same thing in his piece to CNN: As with Putin today in Ukraine, Hitler in 1938 in Austria based his claim on the need to protect fellow ethnics. http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/05/opinion/russia-ukraine-austria/?iref=obinsiteHillary Clinton has also made the same comparison. Maybe it isn't so far-fetched. it's not far fetched at all. though putin would not start another world war or mass murder people. the hitler move looks really bad because it was done by hitler, but similar moves have been done elsewhere in history without the subsequent evnts. still, the western weakness due to not wanting to drive away the russian oligarch dirty money is showing. the UK especially is a joke
Well, of course not to anyone who has an understanding of history.
There is idiotic belief that 1938 was eons ago, when in fact, when you look at the timeline of humanity, it is recent history. It is not even a hundred years ago, many people born before 1938 are still alive today... Sure much has changed in the world, but much is still the same.
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When you are using a good amount of negative adjectives and inflamatory pronouns, you have to wonder if you are unbiased.
If you combine it with trying to discredit proof from only one side, you are not biased: You are propagandizing!
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Now people are claiming that the violence in Donetsk is due to Russian citizens living in Russia decided to jump the border to go to Donetsk in Ukraine and beat up some people? Did I miss something?
On March 14 2014 21:35 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 21:29 BronzeKnee wrote:A lot of people have been giving me crap in this thread when I've compared Putin's recent actions to Hitler's in 1938. However, today, Timothy Snyder, a professor of history at Yale did the same thing in his piece to CNN: As with Putin today in Ukraine, Hitler in 1938 in Austria based his claim on the need to protect fellow ethnics. http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/05/opinion/russia-ukraine-austria/?iref=obinsiteHillary Clinton has also made the same comparison. Maybe it isn't so far-fetched. it's not far fetched at all. though putin would not start another world war or mass murder people. the hitler move looks really bad because it was done by hitler, but similar moves have been done elsewhere in history without the subsequent evnts. still, the western weakness due to not wanting to drive away the russian oligarch dirty money is showing. the UK especially is a joke
Well, imho, it was obvious from the start that no one in a right state of mind was going to screw with Russia.
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