Ukraine Crisis - Page 297

On March 14 2014 23:06 HellRoxYa wrote:


Actually yes, these are the exact same things. "Maidan" was nothing more than getting Yanukovych out of power. That you believe otherwise doesn't make that true.

Belarusian spy detained in Poland was diplomat
One of the Belarusians, detained under the suspicion of espionage, was a military attaché.

Yesterday the charter97.org web-site reported that Poland’s Internal Security Agency (Agencja Bezpieczeństwa Wewnętrznego, ABW) took in custody two citizens of Belarus, suspected of intelligence activities for Russia.

It came out that Polish military intelligence followed one of the detained and then handed his case in to the ABW. The agency itself does not provide any information and refers to Warsaw Appeal Prosecutor’s Office. – We are controlling ABW’s investigation on the espionage case, - the prosecutor office’s press-secretary Zbignew Jakulski says. At Warsaw district court they said that on 19 February a request came for the arrest of a citizen of Belarus, who was accused of espionage activities, Gazeta reported.

The other detained is a diplomat – Belarusian military attaché. According to the newspaper’s sources, he was caught photographing military objects in Bydgoszcz – NATO’s training center.

The Polish services believe that both of the detained worked for Russia. – There is no difference to us between Belarusian and Russian spies. Both countries have joint intelligence, managed by the authorities, - a high-ranked official from the Polish Interior Ministry explained.

Yesterday a special commission tried to learn more about the spies. A parliament member Stanislaw Wzetek told journalists in the Parliament that the detained “did harm to the state”. – One of them used various ways for transferring information on important elements of the state’s functioning and the national defense, - he said. The other spy “was supposed to attempt at destabilizing the state”.

On 13 March in Donetsk tragic events occurred, blood was shed. Right-radical gangs, armed with traumatic weapons and bats, which had assembled the evening before in the city from other regions of the country, attacked peaceful demonstrations who had come to the streets of the city to express their attitude to the destruction position of people calling themselves the Ukrainian government.

We have repeatedly stated that those who have come to power in Kiev must disarm the fighters, guarantee the security of the population and the lawful right of people to hold rallies. Unfortunately, as events in Ukraine have shown, that is not happening, and the Kiev authorities are not controlling the situation in the country.

Russia is aware of its responsibility for the life of its compatriots and fellow citizens in Ukraine and reserves the right to take people under protection.

On March 14 2014 19:24 Ghanburighan wrote:
And here it starts:



What's especially perverse about this excuse for more military intervention is that in the videos (also posted in this thread), and according to all source, pro-Russia protesters were the ones that attacked and killed pro-Ukraine protesters.

***

Relevant:



It should be absolutely clear now that this military intervention that Russia is planning is aimed at protecting `compatriots' from pro-Russia thugs, many of which don't even live in Ukraine.

On March 15 2014 00:28 MikeMM wrote:


So you instantly accept results of this poll but you already call the referendum which hasnt happened yet false.

That just shows how biased you are.

On March 15 2014 00:15 Saryph wrote:
Sorry for the double post, but here is the Russian Foreign Ministry's statement on the killings of pro-Ukrainian protesters by pro-Russian protesters caught on video yesterday:



Original message here

This seems to contradict the video of the pro-Russian protesters stoning and beating three people to death. Also, the bolded part really seems to scream 'we are going to take more of Ukraine' especially when you consider all of the drills and movement of tanks/troops to the border by Russia and even Belarus.

On March 15 2014 00:31 MikeMM wrote:



Have Nato soldiers been doing drills recently too?

On March 15 2014 00:29 Gorsameth wrote:

The linked poll has a yes and no option. It is already infinitely more unbiased then the referendum will ever be.

Do you get the fact that the poll only has a "join Russia now" and a "join Russia a little later" option and no "keep it as it is"?
Does that look like a referendum that has any point or legitimacy?

On March 15 2014 00:34 MikeMM wrote:

Just show me that list where is written "join Russia a little later".
If you cant then stop talking nonsense.

On March 15 2014 00:34 MikeMM wrote:

Just show me that list where is written "join Russia a little later".
If you cant then stop talking nonsense.

On March 15 2014 00:36 Gorsameth wrote:

Here we go again

There are 2 options on the referendum ballot.

1) is to join Russia
2) is to revert to a Constitution from 2012 which gave Crimea more autonomy. Most importantly it would let them declare themselves a part of Russia.
A declaration the local Crimea government has already made but it was ignored by everyone because they cannot legally do so atm.

Do tell me where the option to keep the current situation is in that?

Its a join Russia now or join later referendum.

On March 15 2014 00:39 Saryph wrote:

Small mistake: It's the 1992 constitution, not 2012.

On March 15 2014 00:36 Gorsameth wrote:

Here we go again

There are 2 options on the referendum ballot.

1) is to join Russia
2) is to revert to a Constitution from 2012 which gave Crimea more autonomy. Most importantly it would let them declare themselves a part of Russia.
A declaration the local Crimea government has already made but it was ignored by everyone because they cannot legally do so atm.

Do tell me where the option to keep the current situation is in that?

Its a join Russia now or join later referendum.

On March 15 2014 00:34 MikeMM wrote:

Just show me that list where is written "join Russia a little later".
If you cant then stop talking nonsense.

the 1992 national blueprint - which was adopted soon after the collapse of the Soviet Union and then quickly abolished by the young post-Soviet Ukrainian state - is far from doing that.

This foresees giving Crimea all the qualities of an independent entity within Ukraine - but with the broad right to determine its own path and choose relations with whom it wants - including Russia.

With the pro-Russian assembly already saying it wants to return Crimea to Russia, this second option only offers a slightly longer route to shifting the peninsula back under Russian control, analysts say.

The option of asking people if they wish to stick with the status quo - in which Crimea enjoys autonomy but remains part of Ukraine - is not on offer.
Source.

On March 15 2014 00:40 Ghanburighan wrote:


What Gorsameth said is correct. Source. If you're not satisfied, there are much lengthier and in depth analyses of this as well. But mostly what matters is that the referendum contradicts the Ukrainian constitution and international law, so even if it were entirely accurate (which it isn't with people's passports being shredded by militia in the streets and tons more happening), it would still be illegitimate.

On March 15 2014 00:40 MikeMM wrote:


You wrote option 2 incompletely. you missed quite an important part. Please write it completely and then we will continue discussion.