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For reference: Just look at Greece and how "well" they are doing, now the IWF got hold of them and reformed them to their bones!
Totally the IWFs fault for greece being/were as corrupt as the ukraine is/was. I mean, how can an organisation lend money to somewhere and expect something in return, in the end, it's only money right? Free and for everyone?
Having to have reforms sucks, and hurts in the short run, yes. But blaming the IWF for that is just stupid, greece didn't "default" for no reason. Maybe it was time for reforms.
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And here it starts:
What's especially perverse about this excuse for more military intervention is that in the videos (also posted in this thread), and according to all source, pro-Russia protesters were the ones that attacked and killed pro-Ukraine protesters.
***
Relevant:
It should be absolutely clear now that this military intervention that Russia is planning is aimed at protecting `compatriots' from pro-Russia thugs, many of which don't even live in Ukraine.
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On March 14 2014 07:45 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 14 2014 06:35 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 06:33 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 14 2014 06:28 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 06:27 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
Just for guys who don't know how it works here.
After blocking, owners of hostings can go to court and appeal.
Site starts to work after it before final decision and usually after deleting 1-2 materials (or just hiding them from main page) they're getting unblock.
And you would consider that "normal"? Honest question. Usually they block something with porn/cp or something like that, for example we have Lurkmore (kind of wiki for lulz), so they banned it for 1 day for getting photos of cp in some random article. It could be worse but we did achieved ability to appeal year ago or something like that after first time this law entered the world, because blackouts aren't good. Can't say that i like this ability, but usually they don't abuse their power. What about this case? What is your thought about the fact that they try to silence opposition (yet again) with "dirty" measures? I find it mostly ridiculous that they're so "paranoid on public" about it. Big amount of population support them anyway, so i have no idea why do they fear it. I could probably even support them, if they didn't have their ridiculous youth organisations who're dumb as hell and they're really brainwashed. Dunno how did they do it, but still. Even though i worked in Navalny's headquarters on last elections, opposition was really cute when it appeared first, in 2011 especially, they were saying some new stuff which students, youth and some part of middle-class could support. But after few 80-100k meetings, opposition really fell hard, not only because they have few guys who were ministers in 90s and almost made Russia be in shambles one more time but they were saying same stuff from meeting to meeting without basically doing anything except it. If Yanukovich didn't use weapons, Ukranian Euromaidan could be completely same. Some kind of post-30 November Euromaidan happened on 6th May 2012, when there was big meeting in centre of Moscow (100k or something close to it), leaders of opposition were saying same stuff and after it rightwings screamed "Let's destroy Kremlin" and tried to provoke cops. After it chaos occured, half of rightwings are still sitting in jail and there are almost no big meetings since then because to be completely fair, middle-class which is main part of population in Moscow doesn't want country in shambles again, so we're kinda ok with current situation with some exceptions. This law about government being able to block some sites was one of those exceptions. Thank God, at least we could appeal to it and help owners and media. I really dislike it as i mentioned before but it works weird right now. Some providers can block, some can't and even if they can, you can still use/watch everything from this site just by simply using other browser's turbo function. You don't even need to use proxies. Basically, what is going to silence opposition (at least, there is my prediction) is new law about bitcoins's ban and anonymous money transfers, because every meeting is sponsored by people who want to come/just want meeting to be good and people can be scared to use it because they want to hide their name. Also there will be some limits to using virtual money (like Webmoney) to 1000 rubles (something like 30$ per day), so if you want to buy something from foreign countries, you need to move moneys for plastic bank cards and pay with it. On March 14 2014 06:38 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 06:33 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 14 2014 06:28 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 06:27 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
Just for guys who don't know how it works here.
After blocking, owners of hostings can go to court and appeal.
Site starts to work after it before final decision and usually after deleting 1-2 materials (or just hiding them from main page) they're getting unblock.
And you would consider that "normal"? Honest question. Usually they block something with porn/cp or something like that, for example we have Lurkmore (kind of wiki for lulz), so they banned it for 1 day for getting photos of cp in some random article. It could be worse but we did achieved ability to appeal year ago or something like that after first time this law entered the world, because blackouts aren't good. Can't say that i like this ability, but usually they don't abuse their power. So the authorities just ban something if they feel like it, and then the owner of the site has to go to court and argue whether that was justified or not? And if the government is nice they unblock your site if you delete what they don't like? Sorry man but that sounds really fucked up. Why is there so little uproar about that kind of stuff? Ye, it's fucked but if i learned something from my exams and life in total - if you failed and you can appeal to it, then you're in good shape. There was a lot of uproar about it when law came in first (Even Russian segment of Wikipedia did blackout for one day just in protest), but after it, basically that law was blocking only some real shit in runet which noone uses anyway. It blocked once bunch of pages in VK which were unbanned after it, some stuff on Lurk and sometimes they're banning some media pages just to unlock it 1-2 hours later so everyone thinks that it's just technical difficulties. They did ban EJ i guess? Guys from there are working on other media anyway, so it won't hurt. Almost noone reads Garry Kasparov as well, he is in absolute anti-Russia position since 2012, it's not even our opposition level and Navalny's livejournal is banned because he's under home arrest for a week already and he can't use internet (his wife and some volunteers are helping him with twitter and livejournal but apparently he really can't do it at all). I highly expect all those resources to come back asap. It's just politics of governments - 2 steps ahead, 1 step behind. On March 14 2014 06:47 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 06:38 Nyxisto wrote:On March 14 2014 06:33 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 14 2014 06:28 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 06:27 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
Just for guys who don't know how it works here.
After blocking, owners of hostings can go to court and appeal.
Site starts to work after it before final decision and usually after deleting 1-2 materials (or just hiding them from main page) they're getting unblock.
And you would consider that "normal"? Honest question. Usually they block something with porn/cp or something like that, for example we have Lurkmore (kind of wiki for lulz), so they banned it for 1 day for getting photos of cp in some random article. It could be worse but we did achieved ability to appeal year ago or something like that after first time this law entered the world, because blackouts aren't good. Can't say that i like this ability, but usually they don't abuse their power. So the authorities just ban something if they feel like it, and then the owner of the site has to go to court and argue whether that was justified or not? And if the government is nice they unblock your site if you delete what they don't like? Sorry man but that sounds really fucked up. Why is there so little uproar about that kind of stuff? The sad truth is that the lasting damage from centuries of servitude to the state can't be undone in a couple generations. What's abundantly clear to me from reading the comments of Russian posters is that they really don't know how wrong the environment that they're in is. In fairness to them, I wouldn't expect them to take a foreigner's word for it. It's just something that they're going to have to figure out on their own. Sorry, dude, if we're looking as absolute mutton-retards in your eyes. When you want to change something, you're searching for better item/stuff/girlfriend/etc. You want it to be not only better than previous one but fill the disadvantages which previous item/stuff/girlfriend/etc had. Sadly, there is no substitution for current governance. Not because they're bad, they're decent in domestic and foreign things but just simply because they're ruling for 19 years already. (Even though Eltsin was way worse than Putin and even Medvedev lol). But to sub them, you need something better. Only candidate for last few years is Navalny but he got discredited hard when he was sentenced to jail few weeks before Moscow's major elections but day later PROSECUTOR forced his release from it and subbing 5-years jail sentence for probation. After it Navalny proceeded to get 27% with our help which is considered huge success but still, people supported our previous major who wasn't bad either, Moscow is looking like really cute city. There is still long road ahead but it's something. On March 14 2014 06:49 Cheerio wrote:
There is information that Crimean school graduates will be accepted to top Russian universities without exams or tests, but through interviews. Yes, it's true. Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 07:07 Gorsameth wrote:On March 14 2014 07:01 Sent. wrote:On March 14 2014 06:54 Acertos wrote:
Maybe I'm pessimistic but Imho there will be at least a civil war.
Perhaps Putin doesn't want a war but by propaganding he unleashed the beast that is nationalism. Now we can be sure that more events like this will occur. Crimea might be the worst place for that considering the police and the military (which are already pro-russia) won't do anything to protect pro ukraine people and other etnicities like the tatars.
There are more Tatars in Russia than in Crimea and I didn't hear about ethnic cleansings in Russia recently so why would Crimean Tatars be in danger after Russians take over the peninsula? Because Russia is cultivating an atmosphere where anyone not Russian or Russian affiliated is an enemy? I'm not sure what did you mean but there are huge whines here for a long time that being Russian in Russia means that you're fucked because government hugely support illegals because it means money, we donate shitloads of money for Northern Caucasus and just simple stuff that 90% of conflicts/murders/rapes and other stuff in Moscow at least are done by illegal migrants/guys from Northern Caucasus/legal migrants from Middle Asia, who have passports but can't say word on Russian without making a mistake. Sorry for my English btw, i know that it's not ideal.
Got any proper statistics to prove those percentages ? Does that percentage include violence against not ethically Russians and most importantly are those crimes even investigated or even reported?
Simply judging from your post you sound like a right extremist politically, at least this what it seems to me. The Rhetoric and actions I'm seeing from Russia is increasingly similar to that of early Nazi Germany during Hitlers reign. Including how the majority of the population simply let it all just happen. The mind boggling part is how Putin's goverment uses strong anti fascist rhetoric in propaganda against west and Ukraine all the while in practise acting like a fascist dictator himself.
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Oh wow, an English language poll on the internet with a sample of 650 people who might or might not be from eastern Ukraine. And its on twitter so it must be true!
User was warned for this post
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On March 14 2014 20:08 zeo wrote:
Oh wow, an English language poll on the internet with a sample of 650 people who might or might not be from eastern Ukraine. And its on twitter so it must be true!
So how does this make it more stupid than russias politicians, jumping on an incident that they (pro-russians) started?
You conveniently forget to comment about that, all the time. Almost as if you deliberately try to dodge the kindergardenpolitics coming from russia.
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On March 14 2014 20:08 zeo wrote:
Oh wow, an English language poll on the internet with a sample of 650 people who might or might not be from eastern Ukraine. And its on twitter so it must be true!
Back into your hole of desinformation, Zeo. The poll had 2000 phone interviews (more than enough for a statistically relevant sample). Source: Reuters.
***
BUDAPEST—The Visegrad Four countries—Slovakia, the Czech Republic, Poland and Hungary—Friday signed a pact on a joint military body within the European Union, in response to the escalating Ukrainian crisis.
The deal involves joint military exercises, coordinated defense procurement and joint defense development of the four central European countries.
The move comes after pro-Russian forces have gained control of Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula.
The Visegrad Four countries are the most exposed and most vulnerable to the Ukrainian situation, Hungarian Foreign Affairs Minister Janos Martonyi said Thursday after meeting his V4 counterparts.
Three of the four countries have borders with Ukraine, and groups of ethnic minorities of these countries are also living in Ukraine.
-WSJ
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On March 14 2014 20:11 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 20:08 zeo wrote:
Oh wow, an English language poll on the internet with a sample of 650 people who might or might not be from eastern Ukraine. And its on twitter so it must be true! So how does this make it more stupid than russias politicians, jumping on an incident that they (pro-russians) started? You conveniently forget to comment about that, all the time. Almost as if you deliberately try to dodge the kindergardenpolitics coming from russia.
Yes, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from western Ukraine on a bus and sent them to Donetsk.
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On March 14 2014 20:08 zeo wrote:
Oh wow, an English language poll on the internet with a sample of 650 people who might or might not be from eastern Ukraine. And its on twitter so it must be true!
http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/03/14/ukraine-crisis-poll-idINDEEA2D00H20140314
mobile telephone interviews by GfK market research company for the Avaaz international civic network, 2000 sample size with 650 in eastern parts. Pretty acceptable in polling standards.
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On March 14 2014 20:12 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 20:08 zeo wrote:
Oh wow, an English language poll on the internet with a sample of 650 people who might or might not be from eastern Ukraine. And its on twitter so it must be true! Back into your hole of desinformation, Zeo. The poll had 2000 phone interviews (more than enough for a statistically relevant sample). Source: Reuters.*** Show nested quote +
BUDAPEST—The Visegrad Four countries—Slovakia, the Czech Republic, Poland and Hungary—Friday signed a pact on a joint military body within the European Union, in response to the escalating Ukrainian crisis.
The deal involves joint military exercises, coordinated defense procurement and joint defense development of the four central European countries.
The move comes after pro-Russian forces have gained control of Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula.
The Visegrad Four countries are the most exposed and most vulnerable to the Ukrainian situation, Hungarian Foreign Affairs Minister Janos Martonyi said Thursday after meeting his V4 counterparts.
Three of the four countries have borders with Ukraine, and groups of ethnic minorities of these countries are also living in Ukraine.
-WSJ
Yeah man, why do we even hold elections anymore? Why waste all that money on voting when we can make a phone poll of 2000 people in a country where 45 million people live and have the exact percentages for anything without any bias.
Millions of dollars are being wasted for nothing people, lets all bow down to the almighty phone poll.
Avaaz is a global civic organization launched in January 2007 that promotes activism on issues such as climate change, human rights, animal rights, corruption, poverty, and conflict; it works to "close the gap between the world we have and the world most people everywhere want."[1] The organization operates in 15 languages and claims over thirty million members in 194 countries,[1] and The Guardian considers it "the globe's largest and most powerful online activist network".[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avaaz
Well that explains a lot.
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On March 14 2014 20:13 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 20:11 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 20:08 zeo wrote:
Oh wow, an English language poll on the internet with a sample of 650 people who might or might not be from eastern Ukraine. And its on twitter so it must be true! So how does this make it more stupid than russias politicians, jumping on an incident that they (pro-russians) started? You conveniently forget to comment about that, all the time. Almost as if you deliberately try to dodge the kindergardenpolitics coming from russia. Yes, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from western Ukraine on a bus and sent them to Donetsk.
No, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from Russian Federation on a bus and sent them to Donetsk.
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On March 14 2014 20:16 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 20:12 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 14 2014 20:08 zeo wrote:
Oh wow, an English language poll on the internet with a sample of 650 people who might or might not be from eastern Ukraine. And its on twitter so it must be true! Back into your hole of desinformation, Zeo. The poll had 2000 phone interviews (more than enough for a statistically relevant sample). Source: Reuters.***
BUDAPEST—The Visegrad Four countries—Slovakia, the Czech Republic, Poland and Hungary—Friday signed a pact on a joint military body within the European Union, in response to the escalating Ukrainian crisis.
The deal involves joint military exercises, coordinated defense procurement and joint defense development of the four central European countries.
The move comes after pro-Russian forces have gained control of Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula.
The Visegrad Four countries are the most exposed and most vulnerable to the Ukrainian situation, Hungarian Foreign Affairs Minister Janos Martonyi said Thursday after meeting his V4 counterparts.
Three of the four countries have borders with Ukraine, and groups of ethnic minorities of these countries are also living in Ukraine.
-WSJ
Yeah man, why do we even hold elections anymore? Why waste all that money on voting when we can make a phone poll of 2000 people in a country where 45 million people live and have the exact percentages for anything without any bias. Millions of dollars are being wasted for nothing people, lets all bow down to the almighty phone poll.
Don't be stupid. A poll is meant to indicate people's preferences. Polling methods PREDICT the outcome of elections. The sample size above is sufficient to predict to a few percentage points. Elections provide a mandate for governing. Elections themselves are coming on the 25th of May. Thanks to the poll, I know where my money lies.
Edit: Also note that Avaaz is actually a respectable organization, but it only funded the poll (they're expensive you know, someone has to make the calls and crunch the numbers), the professional polling firm was listed in the article.
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On March 14 2014 20:23 Roman666 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 20:13 zeo wrote:On March 14 2014 20:11 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 20:08 zeo wrote:
Oh wow, an English language poll on the internet with a sample of 650 people who might or might not be from eastern Ukraine. And its on twitter so it must be true! So how does this make it more stupid than russias politicians, jumping on an incident that they (pro-russians) started? You conveniently forget to comment about that, all the time. Almost as if you deliberately try to dodge the kindergardenpolitics coming from russia. Yes, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from western Ukraine on a bus and sent them to Donetsk. No, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from Russian Federation on a bus and sent them to Donetsk.
There has been evidence about that kind of stuff happening. Remember that poor Russian lady who was spotted in like 4 different city's pro-russian protests as like 4 different person..
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On March 14 2014 20:24 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 20:16 zeo wrote:On March 14 2014 20:12 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 14 2014 20:08 zeo wrote:
Oh wow, an English language poll on the internet with a sample of 650 people who might or might not be from eastern Ukraine. And its on twitter so it must be true! Back into your hole of desinformation, Zeo. The poll had 2000 phone interviews (more than enough for a statistically relevant sample). Source: Reuters.***
BUDAPEST—The Visegrad Four countries—Slovakia, the Czech Republic, Poland and Hungary—Friday signed a pact on a joint military body within the European Union, in response to the escalating Ukrainian crisis.
The deal involves joint military exercises, coordinated defense procurement and joint defense development of the four central European countries.
The move comes after pro-Russian forces have gained control of Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula.
The Visegrad Four countries are the most exposed and most vulnerable to the Ukrainian situation, Hungarian Foreign Affairs Minister Janos Martonyi said Thursday after meeting his V4 counterparts.
Three of the four countries have borders with Ukraine, and groups of ethnic minorities of these countries are also living in Ukraine.
-WSJ
Yeah man, why do we even hold elections anymore? Why waste all that money on voting when we can make a phone poll of 2000 people in a country where 45 million people live and have the exact percentages for anything without any bias. Millions of dollars are being wasted for nothing people, lets all bow down to the almighty phone poll. Don't be stupid. A poll is meant to indicate people's preferences. Polling methods PREDICT the outcome of elections. The sample size above is sufficient to predict to a few percentage points. Elections provide a mandate for governing. Elections themselves are coming on the 25th of May. Thanks to the poll, I know where my money lies. Edit: Also note that Avaaz is actually a respectable organization, but it only funded the poll (they're expensive you know, someone has to make the calls and crunch the numbers), the professional polling firm was listed in the article.
After 200+ pages, that boat is sailed.
There has been evidence about that kind of stuff happening. Remember that poor Russian lady who was spotted in like 4 different city's pro-russian protests as like 4 different person..
Fun part is, i was talking to my girlfriend earlier, about something stupid i did in elementary school. I told my best friend back then, to push around and pull the hair of the girl i had a crush on, so i could "beat him up" to impress her.
Didn't work out, needless to say, but russian politics seem to work the same way.
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On March 14 2014 20:28 Tonttu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 20:23 Roman666 wrote:On March 14 2014 20:13 zeo wrote:On March 14 2014 20:11 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 20:08 zeo wrote:
Oh wow, an English language poll on the internet with a sample of 650 people who might or might not be from eastern Ukraine. And its on twitter so it must be true! So how does this make it more stupid than russias politicians, jumping on an incident that they (pro-russians) started? You conveniently forget to comment about that, all the time. Almost as if you deliberately try to dodge the kindergardenpolitics coming from russia. Yes, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from western Ukraine on a bus and sent them to Donetsk. No, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from Russian Federation on a bus and sent them to Donetsk. There has been evidence about that kind of stuff happening. Remember that poor Russian lady who was spotted in like 4 different city's pro-russian protests as like 4 different person..
And the `tourists' were reported about when they entered Donetsk days before:
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On March 14 2014 20:31 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 20:28 Tonttu wrote:On March 14 2014 20:23 Roman666 wrote:On March 14 2014 20:13 zeo wrote:On March 14 2014 20:11 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 20:08 zeo wrote:
Oh wow, an English language poll on the internet with a sample of 650 people who might or might not be from eastern Ukraine. And its on twitter so it must be true! So how does this make it more stupid than russias politicians, jumping on an incident that they (pro-russians) started? You conveniently forget to comment about that, all the time. Almost as if you deliberately try to dodge the kindergardenpolitics coming from russia. Yes, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from western Ukraine on a bus and sent them to Donetsk. No, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from Russian Federation on a bus and sent them to Donetsk. There has been evidence about that kind of stuff happening. Remember that poor Russian lady who was spotted in like 4 different city's pro-russian protests as like 4 different person.. And the `tourists' were reported about when they entered Donetsk days before: https://twitter.com/HTSolomon/status/443164853113733121
All lies. Don't try to open zeos eyes, he won't listen anyway. Although it's interesting to see how he desperately tries to find reasons to justify the actions he so condemned on the ukrainian side.
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On March 14 2014 20:33 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 20:31 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 14 2014 20:28 Tonttu wrote:On March 14 2014 20:23 Roman666 wrote:On March 14 2014 20:13 zeo wrote:On March 14 2014 20:11 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 20:08 zeo wrote:
Oh wow, an English language poll on the internet with a sample of 650 people who might or might not be from eastern Ukraine. And its on twitter so it must be true! So how does this make it more stupid than russias politicians, jumping on an incident that they (pro-russians) started? You conveniently forget to comment about that, all the time. Almost as if you deliberately try to dodge the kindergardenpolitics coming from russia. Yes, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from western Ukraine on a bus and sent them to Donetsk. No, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from Russian Federation on a bus and sent them to Donetsk. There has been evidence about that kind of stuff happening. Remember that poor Russian lady who was spotted in like 4 different city's pro-russian protests as like 4 different person.. And the `tourists' were reported about when they entered Donetsk days before: https://twitter.com/HTSolomon/status/443164853113733121 All lies. Don't try to open zeos eyes, he won't listen anyway. Although it's interesting to see how he desperately tries to find reasons to justify the actions he so condemned on the ukrainian side.
What Ukrainian side? I am on the side of Ukraine that wants to protect itself from the devastation in the west of the country. Busloads of radicals were brought in from the west of the country to continue setting fire to and destroying public property that they had grown so fond of in their part of the country, and people went out onto the street to defend their city from thugs. If a thousand people came to my city to try to violently overthrow the people that my city democratically elected I would defend my city too.
No amount of fake polls and propaganda can take away a persons right to defend their property and city from thugs.
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On March 14 2014 20:41 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 20:33 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 20:31 Ghanburighan wrote:On March 14 2014 20:28 Tonttu wrote:On March 14 2014 20:23 Roman666 wrote:On March 14 2014 20:13 zeo wrote:On March 14 2014 20:11 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 20:08 zeo wrote:
Oh wow, an English language poll on the internet with a sample of 650 people who might or might not be from eastern Ukraine. And its on twitter so it must be true! So how does this make it more stupid than russias politicians, jumping on an incident that they (pro-russians) started? You conveniently forget to comment about that, all the time. Almost as if you deliberately try to dodge the kindergardenpolitics coming from russia. Yes, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from western Ukraine on a bus and sent them to Donetsk. No, I'm sure the Russians put all those people from Russian Federation on a bus and sent them to Donetsk. There has been evidence about that kind of stuff happening. Remember that poor Russian lady who was spotted in like 4 different city's pro-russian protests as like 4 different person.. And the `tourists' were reported about when they entered Donetsk days before: https://twitter.com/HTSolomon/status/443164853113733121 All lies. Don't try to open zeos eyes, he won't listen anyway. Although it's interesting to see how he desperately tries to find reasons to justify the actions he so condemned on the ukrainian side. What Ukrainian side? I am on the side of Ukraine that wants to protect itself from the devastation in the west of the country. Busloads of radicals were brought in from the west of the country to continue setting fire to and destroying public property they had grown so fond of in their part of the country and people went out onto the street to defend their city from thugs. If a thousand people came to my city to try to violently overthrow the people of my city democratically elected I would defend my city too. No amount of fake polls and propaganda can take away a persons right to defend their property and city from thugs.
I surely agree with you on that part. Especially when the thugs are brought in from across eastern border to incite violence.
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No amount of fake polls and propaganda can take away a persons right to defend their property and city from thugs.
Wow, you're a hopeless cause. As in, PaleRussian-level.
I just hope the "defenders" get burned really hard the next time they set fire to crimean tatars property. Oh i forgot, you don't comment on that or other russian extremists, too inconvenient, since your whole argument against pro-ukrainian people is "they're all fascists".
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 14 2014 20:03 Saihv wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 07:45 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 14 2014 06:35 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 06:33 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 14 2014 06:28 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 06:27 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
Just for guys who don't know how it works here.
After blocking, owners of hostings can go to court and appeal.
Site starts to work after it before final decision and usually after deleting 1-2 materials (or just hiding them from main page) they're getting unblock.
And you would consider that "normal"? Honest question. Usually they block something with porn/cp or something like that, for example we have Lurkmore (kind of wiki for lulz), so they banned it for 1 day for getting photos of cp in some random article. It could be worse but we did achieved ability to appeal year ago or something like that after first time this law entered the world, because blackouts aren't good. Can't say that i like this ability, but usually they don't abuse their power. What about this case? What is your thought about the fact that they try to silence opposition (yet again) with "dirty" measures? I find it mostly ridiculous that they're so "paranoid on public" about it. Big amount of population support them anyway, so i have no idea why do they fear it. I could probably even support them, if they didn't have their ridiculous youth organisations who're dumb as hell and they're really brainwashed. Dunno how did they do it, but still. Even though i worked in Navalny's headquarters on last elections, opposition was really cute when it appeared first, in 2011 especially, they were saying some new stuff which students, youth and some part of middle-class could support. But after few 80-100k meetings, opposition really fell hard, not only because they have few guys who were ministers in 90s and almost made Russia be in shambles one more time but they were saying same stuff from meeting to meeting without basically doing anything except it. If Yanukovich didn't use weapons, Ukranian Euromaidan could be completely same. Some kind of post-30 November Euromaidan happened on 6th May 2012, when there was big meeting in centre of Moscow (100k or something close to it), leaders of opposition were saying same stuff and after it rightwings screamed "Let's destroy Kremlin" and tried to provoke cops. After it chaos occured, half of rightwings are still sitting in jail and there are almost no big meetings since then because to be completely fair, middle-class which is main part of population in Moscow doesn't want country in shambles again, so we're kinda ok with current situation with some exceptions. This law about government being able to block some sites was one of those exceptions. Thank God, at least we could appeal to it and help owners and media. I really dislike it as i mentioned before but it works weird right now. Some providers can block, some can't and even if they can, you can still use/watch everything from this site just by simply using other browser's turbo function. You don't even need to use proxies. Basically, what is going to silence opposition (at least, there is my prediction) is new law about bitcoins's ban and anonymous money transfers, because every meeting is sponsored by people who want to come/just want meeting to be good and people can be scared to use it because they want to hide their name. Also there will be some limits to using virtual money (like Webmoney) to 1000 rubles (something like 30$ per day), so if you want to buy something from foreign countries, you need to move moneys for plastic bank cards and pay with it. On March 14 2014 06:38 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 06:33 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 14 2014 06:28 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 06:27 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
Just for guys who don't know how it works here.
After blocking, owners of hostings can go to court and appeal.
Site starts to work after it before final decision and usually after deleting 1-2 materials (or just hiding them from main page) they're getting unblock.
And you would consider that "normal"? Honest question. Usually they block something with porn/cp or something like that, for example we have Lurkmore (kind of wiki for lulz), so they banned it for 1 day for getting photos of cp in some random article. It could be worse but we did achieved ability to appeal year ago or something like that after first time this law entered the world, because blackouts aren't good. Can't say that i like this ability, but usually they don't abuse their power. So the authorities just ban something if they feel like it, and then the owner of the site has to go to court and argue whether that was justified or not? And if the government is nice they unblock your site if you delete what they don't like? Sorry man but that sounds really fucked up. Why is there so little uproar about that kind of stuff? Ye, it's fucked but if i learned something from my exams and life in total - if you failed and you can appeal to it, then you're in good shape. There was a lot of uproar about it when law came in first (Even Russian segment of Wikipedia did blackout for one day just in protest), but after it, basically that law was blocking only some real shit in runet which noone uses anyway. It blocked once bunch of pages in VK which were unbanned after it, some stuff on Lurk and sometimes they're banning some media pages just to unlock it 1-2 hours later so everyone thinks that it's just technical difficulties. They did ban EJ i guess? Guys from there are working on other media anyway, so it won't hurt. Almost noone reads Garry Kasparov as well, he is in absolute anti-Russia position since 2012, it's not even our opposition level and Navalny's livejournal is banned because he's under home arrest for a week already and he can't use internet (his wife and some volunteers are helping him with twitter and livejournal but apparently he really can't do it at all). I highly expect all those resources to come back asap. It's just politics of governments - 2 steps ahead, 1 step behind. On March 14 2014 06:47 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2014 06:38 Nyxisto wrote:On March 14 2014 06:33 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On March 14 2014 06:28 m4ini wrote:On March 14 2014 06:27 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
Just for guys who don't know how it works here.
After blocking, owners of hostings can go to court and appeal.
Site starts to work after it before final decision and usually after deleting 1-2 materials (or just hiding them from main page) they're getting unblock.
And you would consider that "normal"? Honest question. Usually they block something with porn/cp or something like that, for example we have Lurkmore (kind of wiki for lulz), so they banned it for 1 day for getting photos of cp in some random article. It could be worse but we did achieved ability to appeal year ago or something like that after first time this law entered the world, because blackouts aren't good. Can't say that i like this ability, but usually they don't abuse their power. So the authorities just ban something if they feel like it, and then the owner of the site has to go to court and argue whether that was justified or not? And if the government is nice they unblock your site if you delete what they don't like? Sorry man but that sounds really fucked up. Why is there so little uproar about that kind of stuff? The sad truth is that the lasting damage from centuries of servitude to the state can't be undone in a couple generations. What's abundantly clear to me from reading the comments of Russian posters is that they really don't know how wrong the environment that they're in is. In fairness to them, I wouldn't expect them to take a foreigner's word for it. It's just something that they're going to have to figure out on their own. Sorry, dude, if we're looking as absolute mutton-retards in your eyes. When you want to change something, you're searching for better item/stuff/girlfriend/etc. You want it to be not only better than previous one but fill the disadvantages which previous item/stuff/girlfriend/etc had. Sadly, there is no substitution for current governance. Not because they're bad, they're decent in domestic and foreign things but just simply because they're ruling for 19 years already. (Even though Eltsin was way worse than Putin and even Medvedev lol). But to sub them, you need something better. Only candidate for last few years is Navalny but he got discredited hard when he was sentenced to jail few weeks before Moscow's major elections but day later PROSECUTOR forced his release from it and subbing 5-years jail sentence for probation. After it Navalny proceeded to get 27% with our help which is considered huge success but still, people supported our previous major who wasn't bad either, Moscow is looking like really cute city. There is still long road ahead but it's something. On March 14 2014 06:49 Cheerio wrote:
There is information that Crimean school graduates will be accepted to top Russian universities without exams or tests, but through interviews. Yes, it's true. On March 14 2014 07:07 Gorsameth wrote:On March 14 2014 07:01 Sent. wrote:On March 14 2014 06:54 Acertos wrote:
Maybe I'm pessimistic but Imho there will be at least a civil war.
Perhaps Putin doesn't want a war but by propaganding he unleashed the beast that is nationalism. Now we can be sure that more events like this will occur. Crimea might be the worst place for that considering the police and the military (which are already pro-russia) won't do anything to protect pro ukraine people and other etnicities like the tatars.
There are more Tatars in Russia than in Crimea and I didn't hear about ethnic cleansings in Russia recently so why would Crimean Tatars be in danger after Russians take over the peninsula? Because Russia is cultivating an atmosphere where anyone not Russian or Russian affiliated is an enemy? I'm not sure what did you mean but there are huge whines here for a long time that being Russian in Russia means that you're fucked because government hugely support illegals because it means money, we donate shitloads of money for Northern Caucasus and just simple stuff that 90% of conflicts/murders/rapes and other stuff in Moscow at least are done by illegal migrants/guys from Northern Caucasus/legal migrants from Middle Asia, who have passports but can't say word on Russian without making a mistake. Sorry for my English btw, i know that it's not ideal. Got any proper statistics to prove those percentages ? Does that percentage include violence against not ethically Russians and most importantly are those crimes even investigated or even reported? Simply judging from your post you sound like a right extremist politically, at least this what it seems to me. The Rhetoric and actions I'm seeing from Russia is increasingly similar to that of early Nazi Germany during Hitlers reign. Including how the majority of the population simply let it all just happen. The mind boggling part is how Putin's goverment uses strong anti fascist rhetoric in propaganda against west and Ukraine all the while in practise acting like a fascist dictator himself.
Dude, i'm not first day in this city and i can read news/watch guys in railway stations/metropoliten/other places.
I always disliked Nazi rhetoric and my father is Armenian for example, but it's really like that here :D Those crimes? I guess, they're investigated always especially after 2010 when guy from Kabardino-Balkariya killed fan of Spartak Moscow and after it there were something like thousands of fans from whole Russia on meeting on Manezhnaya square which looked like Right Sector in Ukraine. It wasn't fun, i promise.
But sad thing that they have enough money/power/diaspora protect, so they usually don't get punished except for some hardcore cases or just probations.
I guess, you can understand me probably. Not only you, i know that in Europe there are a lot of illegal migrants, i guess they don't like it very much as well.
A lot of citizens here just dream about peace and that you can let children go somewhere freely after 22-00 for example. It's not that bad but sometimes, eh.
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On March 14 2014 20:41 zeo wrote:
No amount of fake polls and propaganda can take away a persons right to defend their property and city from thugs.
Exactly how are that poll fake?
Care to elaborate?
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EPT
