EPTUkraine Crisis - Page 269
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semantics
10040 Posts
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DeepElemBlues
United States5080 Posts
On March 12 2014 02:01 MikeMM wrote: Illegal then? Was revolution in Ukraine legal then? Guys If you want observers you must accept that referendum is legal. Im really surprised by your double standarts. You think that revolution in which many people on both sides died in Ukraine is OK but peaceful referendum shouldnt be allowed. The Ukrainian parliament - the same one that existed before the protests - including a large portion of Yanukovych's own party - voted for the revolution, so yes, it was legal. Despite Russia's opinion on the matter. Yeah see no one cares about what we "must accept" from Russia, that just makes people laugh. Yeah peaceful referendum with Russian soldiers shooting in the air and demanding Ukrainian soldiers surrender and pro-Russian militia roaming the streets beating up journalists and demanding Ukrainian soldiers leave their bases and defect. On March 12 2014 01:54 MikeMM wrote: So you just dont care that people in Crimnea want? There was no great urge to join Russia before Russian soldiers with guns were everywhere and pro-Russian gangs roamed the streets. Now isn't one of the main complaints from Russia about alleged fascist gangs roaming the streets? What a surprise. i think they are called "academi" know. but blackwater is the name they are known for, so i use it. btw, nice arguments you got there bro. not. more sterling rhetoric and flawless evidence-based reasoning from the pro-whichever fascist is giving the west the middle finger today crowd. | ||
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Saihv
Finland54 Posts
this posted here yet? | ||
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Saryph
United States1955 Posts
On March 12 2014 02:29 Saihv wrote: http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/sbu-detains-a-russian-saboteur-in-donetsk-339064.html this posted here yet? I posted something similar, but couldn't find someone to properly translate it. Thanks for an english version. | ||
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Legio
Sweden235 Posts
Scotland is voting on leaving the United Kingdom, why can't Crimea do a similar vote to leave the Ukraine? | ||
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MikeMM
Russian Federation221 Posts
On March 12 2014 02:12 semantics wrote: Referendum was only bought up post Russian troop involvement. Russian troop involvement suggests tampering. Evacuate Russian troops see if there was naturally going to be a referendum. Anything less is tampering. Ofc russia wouldn't allow that as that holds a high possibility that they would not side with Russia. And Russia wants their wet port, damn be w.e people of crimea wants. I dont know anything about russian troops. I do not live in Crimea so I dont have information first hand. But neither do you. On the other hand if Crimea would have been filled with same revolutionists from Euromaidan would referendum be fair? Guys just try to put yourself on place of common sitezens of Crimea. Where would you want to live? In Russia where your relatives lives and always lived (not long ago Crimea was part of Russia) or in Ukraine torn apart be revolution, governed by US secretary John Kerry and co, on the brink of default and with many other problems. But USA said right from the start that they dont give a damn what people in Crimea think and wont accept results. Guys if you really belive in democracy USA and EU must insist that referendum takes places and send there as many observers as possible. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On March 12 2014 02:34 MikeMM wrote: I dont know anything about russian troops. I do not live in Crimea so I dont have information first hand. But neither do you. On the other hand if Crimea would have been filled with same revolutionists from Euromaidan would referendum be fair? Whom do you think you're kidding? Guys just try to put yourself on place of common sitezens of Crimea. Where would you want to live? In Russia where your relatives lives and always lived (not long ago Crimea was part of Russia) or in Ukraine torn apart be revolution, governed by US secretary John Kerry and co, on the brink of default and with many other problems. But USA said right from the start that they dont give a damn what people in Crimea think and wont accept results. Guys if you really belive in democracy USA and EU must insist that referendum takes places and send there as many observers as possible. Are the Russian and Slavic peoples really this slavish? Where's the ownership of country? Republican virtue? | ||
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Simberto
Germany12080 Posts
On March 12 2014 02:34 MikeMM wrote: I dont know anything about russian troops. I do not live in Crimea so I dont have information first hand. But neither do you. On the other hand if Crimea would have been filled with same revolutionists from Euromaidan would referendum be fair? Guys just try to put yourself on place of common sitezens of Crimea. Where would you want to live? In Russia where your relatives lives and always lived (not long ago Crimea was part of Russia) or in Ukraine torn apart be revolution, governed by US secretary John Kerry and co, on the brink of default and with many other problems. But USA said right from the start that they dont give a damn what people in Crimea think and wont accept results. Guys if you really belive in democracy USA and EU must insist that referendum takes places and send there as many observers as possible. You conveniently ignored all of the problems mentioned before. Most people would probably accept a democratic and untampered referendum. This is not it. This is russian imperialism. Basically, the way it should work is that FIRST there is the referendum, THEN the russian troops in the street. If it is the other way around, it is an invasion. People with guns without any observers can get any result they want out of a referendum. Thus, the referendum does not show the will of the people of Crimea, but that of the russian occupying troops. Or their fascist overlord, i guess. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
anyone thinking US/EU does it for the people/for democracy, is delusional. both sides are evil fuckers. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
On March 12 2014 02:34 MikeMM wrote: I dont know anything about russian troops. I do not live in Crimea so I dont have information first hand. But neither do you. On the other hand if Crimea would have been filled with same revolutionists from Euromaidan would referendum be fair? Guys just try to put yourself on place of common sitezens of Crimea. Where would you want to live? In Russia where your relatives lives and always lived (not long ago Crimea was part of Russia) or in Ukraine torn apart be revolution, governed by US secretary John Kerry and co, on the brink of default and with many other problems. But USA said right from the start that they dont give a damn what people in Crimea think and wont accept results. Guys if you really belive in democracy USA and EU must insist that referendum takes places and send there as many observers as possible. The many sources confirming those with guns are mostly Russian troops that have been posted many times during this thread, occupies Crimea. So neither do you does not apply. If you logic is well you're not there you can't know what is the whole point of this thread. Hell what is the point of video hell the whole news is a sham it's not 1st hand experience. Shit argument bro. Weird how you seem to think nationality ties with family. The US is built upon tons of people moving to the US leaving extended family to start a new life. Oh wait you can't know if the majority of people in Crimea have Russian family ties, that's not first hand experience. Btw the 2001 census for crimea Ethic Russian is roughly 50 of the population you're assuming 100% of russian and 5%(for a 2/3rd majority) of the other self identified ethnic groups such as Tatar and Ukrainian would want to be part of Russia. | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
On March 12 2014 02:43 xM(Z wrote: US-EU tampered with Ukraine > Maidan < and if there were no russians in Crimea and citizens of Crimea (by themselves) would've pushed for more authonomy/splitting from Ukraine, US-EU would've tampered with them too. anyone thinking US/EU does it for the people/for democracy, is delusional. both sides are evil fuckers. US doesn't give a shit about democracy it gives a shit about self interest, US kept dictators in power for years as long as they work for US interest. Dictators who actively destroyed real democratic reform, hell South Korea is one of the few places the US held in check by dictator that went through democratic reform while not breaking ties with the US. Ukraine is hardly in US self interest sphere. | ||
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MikeMM
Russian Federation221 Posts
On March 12 2014 02:37 Simberto wrote: You conveniently ignored all of the problems mentioned before. Most people would probably accept a democratic and untampered referendum. This is not it. This is russian imperialism. Basically, the way it should work is that FIRST there is the referendum, THEN the russian troops in the street. If it is the other way around, it is an invasion. People with guns without any observers can get any result they want out of a referendum. Thus, the referendum does not show the will of the people of Crimea, but that of the russian occupying troops. Or their fascist overlord, i guess. The last remark was it really necessary? Cant you argue without offending people(presidents)? I didnt ignore anything. I dont know English that well to respond to everybody. Lets assume for a second there are troops in Crimea. In other words goverment in Iraq is illegtitmate and in Afganistan too? Buy the way how many american and european troops were in Irak? 100 000? 200 000? Care to discuss invasion in Iraq? | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On March 12 2014 02:54 MikeMM wrote: In other words goverment in Iraq is illegtitmate and in Afganistan too? Buy the way how many american and european troops were in Irak? 100 000? 200 000? Care to discuss invasion in Iraq? Yes, let's. Where exactly is it evident that US ever had intentions of annexing Iraq or Afghanistan? Oh wait, we left Iraq and are leaving Afghanistan. | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
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MikeMM
Russian Federation221 Posts
On March 12 2014 02:56 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: To be honest, i'm surprised than noone said here that Kosovo's referendum was absolutely same from neutral point of view, with US and Russia be on different sides that it's right now in Crimea. I wanted to mension that but as I said before I dont know English well. Thx for mentioning it. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On March 12 2014 02:56 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: To be honest, i'm surprised than noone said here that Kosovo's referendum was absolutely same from neutral point of view, with US/NATO and Russia/China on different sides that it's right now in Crimea. You are surprised that in a thread about ukraine and crimea there's no discussion about america and kosovo? Seriously? Not to mention that there was, over and over again. | ||
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MikeMM
Russian Federation221 Posts
On March 12 2014 02:56 xDaunt wrote: Yes, let's. Where exactly is it evident that US ever had intentions of annexing Iraq or Afghanistan? Oh wait, we left Iraq and are leaving Afghanistan. Yes USA wanted to destroy arms of mass destructon. Oh wait... | ||
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fleeze
Germany895 Posts
On March 12 2014 02:15 DeepElemBlues wrote: The Ukrainian parliament - the same one that existed before the protests - including a large portion of Yanukovych's own party - voted for the revolution, so yes, it was legal. Despite Russia's opinion on the matter. Yeah see no one cares about what we "must accept" from Russia, that just makes people laugh. Yeah peaceful referendum with Russian soldiers shooting in the air and demanding Ukrainian soldiers surrender and pro-Russian militia roaming the streets beating up journalists and demanding Ukrainian soldiers leave their bases and defect. There was no great urge to join Russia before Russian soldiers with guns were everywhere and pro-Russian gangs roamed the streets. Now isn't one of the main complaints from Russia about alleged fascist gangs roaming the streets? What a surprise. more sterling rhetoric and flawless evidence-based reasoning from the pro-whichever fascist is giving the west the middle finger today crowd. the current ukrainian government is not supported by the ukrainian constitution. really, that's all you need to know about their "legitimacy". the legitimacy they have is that the "west" is supporting them. btw, you went ad-hominem and i just made a comparison as stupid as yours. and that you can "read" doesn't help much in the propaganda war that is currently happening on BOTH sides. i like reading zeo's posts because they provide another perspective even if i don't necessarily agree with it. if i want to read your opinion i look at western media atm. On March 12 2014 02:56 xDaunt wrote: Yes, let's. Where exactly is it evident that US ever had intentions of annexing Iraq or Afghanistan? Oh wait, we left Iraq and are leaving Afghanistan. russia didn't annex anything to date. but in iraq and especially pakistan (not afghanistan that was covered) you also didnt give a shit about TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY. | ||
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oo_Wonderful_oo
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On March 12 2014 02:58 m4ini wrote: You are surprised that in a thread about ukraine and crimea there's no discussion about america and kosovo? Seriously? Not to mention that there was, over and over again. People just argue so hard about legitimacy of referendum in Crimea, like everyone was following rules in the past. Shit happens against lesser countries always, nothing can be done against it. Probably, same day, when every military will be disbanded and people will live in peaceful world without any troubles - then yes. Before it - no reason to argue about such stuff when every country has sins. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On March 12 2014 02:58 MikeMM wrote: I wanted to mension that but as I said before I dont know English well? Thx for mentioning it. I suppose you should read the whole thread (yes, all of it). You will be surprised, i promise you that much. | ||
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