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On June 12 2013 22:39 shekelberg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 22:36 HaRuHi wrote:On June 12 2013 22:28 shekelberg wrote:On June 12 2013 22:27 guN-viCe wrote:Did you guys know homosexuality is common in some animals?Imagine having sex with a man, are you repulsed? That's how a gay man feels when he thinks about women. Homosexuality exists, deal with it. It's not going away, ever. I feel like Russia and quite a few other countries are like the USA 50-100 years ago. Religion combined with ignorance and dogma strikes again  Rape is also natural in animals, it doesn't mean it's good I am shocked and hurt. You do get the differnce between rape and the consensual act of love? Also: Come on Murrica. Free the shit out of them. Redeem yourself for all the wars you did for oil, do one for freedom. A 14 year old and a 40 year old both consent "in the name of love" do you support that too?
Explain, what has the one to do with the other? *insert de fuck? meme here*
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Sounds like another step towards full out dictatorship. Pretty scary.
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On June 12 2013 22:37 ZeRoX-45 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 22:29 DertoQq wrote:On June 12 2013 22:20 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:14 DertoQq wrote:On June 12 2013 22:03 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 21:50 Myles wrote:On June 12 2013 21:48 marvellosity wrote:On June 12 2013 21:43 ZeRoX-45 wrote:
I am supportive about Russia and Ukraine about anti-homo laws. I wish my goverment could bring in the same legislative about this topic.
Main thing to question here is kind of the society you live in. In my country, Russia or some others, beng gay is unacceptable by large majority of people. So I do not understand the need if having marriages or parades if you know that people will brake half of the city apart that day or burn something if they accept gay marriages in some law. It's almost fault of gays as much as fault of people who do not want them on the streets.
On the other side, I know I can't change someones sexual behaviours but also I dont need to look at them few days per year. I dont also think orthodox chiristianity has something to do with this subject but here church(also Orthodox) is strongly opposing "pride" marches and that is one if the reasons here pride never sucedeed and never will. I would let them do whatever they want behind their walls but do not make us and our children watch that attrocious parade in the middle of capital. Shades of "women are partly to blame when they get raped". icky. Yea, and how dare a black person try to sit next to a white. They brought the discrimination on themselves and the violence against them was almost their fault as much as the attackers. If you would go to the same restaurant every day knowing that no one cant protect you from being beaten by waiter, could you say that its notnyour fault? Police cant protect few thousands of people if 100 times more people are attacking them. Its just non sence. If I go to a restaurant and get beat up by the waiter for no reasons, he would be fired and probably arrested. The boss would give me free meal for life and then I would happily go back to this restaurant again ! yep, that's how it feels living in a civilized country. I pointed out example where anyone cant protect you. In some countries, police cant protect gqys since there is multiple times more people against gays then there is police. One more reason to actually fight for your rights (and by "you" I mean them/us fighting people like you you). If you can't go outside because you are afraid of getting beaten up, then there is something seriously wrong with your country. (and no, locking those people inside isn't a solution). If everyone were like you, black people would still be slaves in America and we would still have a king in France. I dont want to fight alone for gay people rights, I just do not care about them enough. If they can't accept socety the way it is, they could move in France and live normal life. I am sorry for them but there's nothing I can do.
Yes they do have the right to change society if they suffer because of it.Just like many serbians fight to change laws that prevent them form being beaten in the EU when they are found working illegaly and sent back home.Even if they are working illegally there they still have rights as HUMAN BEINGS.The police and local population, although they are taking jobs away form law abiding cittizens, still have to treat them based on HUMAN RIGHTS laws and European Legislation.And compared to you who agree with the beating of innocent civilians I disagree with the torture and humiliation of illegal serbian workers in the EU because at the end of the day they are Human Beings justs like me who only want a good job to feed their families.They have a soul just like me and need to be treated as humans.
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On June 12 2013 22:44 ZeRoX-45 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 22:37 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 12 2013 22:32 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:21 theking1 wrote:I am suprised that so many homophobic posters exist in this forum.Sadly humanity until a great genocide happens does not learn its lesson.The Jews were persecuted for hundreds of years and only after Hitler commited the Hollocaust was antisemitism finally condemned.Now the gays are going to a simmilar process.until many of them are butchered no one will take any actions against inhumane violence against a group of human beings who have done nothing to no one and wish to live their life the way they decide . I am here via phone so sry for not quoting you previous post. Aside from your terrible try to act as intelectual by writing my psychological profile, you completely misunderstood my point. I dont hate someone just for being gay, jew, black or whatever, I just dont want someone murdered or beatan up or damaged whole city just so they can walk 2 kms. If society doeeent approve it, deal with it, or youre saying its easier to change 7 million peoples then few hundreds of gays? Wait, who would get murdered or beaten up again if gays are given equal rights? I'm stumped. Also, yes, it is infinitely easier to change the masses' opinion than it is to legitimately change someone's (anyone's, regardless of number) sexual orientation. As for your point that if society doesn't approve it everyone should just deal with it. Should we revert to treating black people as slaves just because society didn't approve of their rights for a long period of time? Should we also revert to treating women as mindless servants and also stop all scientific research? The masses will always be uneducated on some issue or another. They will always be gullible and more or less believe what they are fed. By adhering to the status quo you do nothing but exacerbate the problem. You are still mising the beat. I do not talk about ease of changing sexual orientation but to change their desire to have pride.
So they can be gay, nothing wrong with that, but they have to hide it from others in shame and fear?
Honestly, how do you expect to be taken seriously when this is your reasoning?
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On June 12 2013 22:39 shekelberg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 22:36 HaRuHi wrote:On June 12 2013 22:28 shekelberg wrote:On June 12 2013 22:27 guN-viCe wrote:Did you guys know homosexuality is common in some animals?Imagine having sex with a man, are you repulsed? That's how a gay man feels when he thinks about women. Homosexuality exists, deal with it. It's not going away, ever. I feel like Russia and quite a few other countries are like the USA 50-100 years ago. Religion combined with ignorance and dogma strikes again Rape is also natural in animals, it doesn't mean it's good I am shocked and hurt. You do get the differnce between rape and the consensual act of love? Also: Come on Murrica. Free the shit out of them. Redeem yourself for all the wars you did for oil, do one for freedom. A 14 year old and a 40 year old both consent "in the name of love" do you support that too?
When did pedophilia come into this and how does it relate on a 1:1 scale to homosexuality?
Either you are just nitpicking his statement which has no relation to the thread or you are comparing homosexuality to pedophilia. Which if you do not know the difference between the two you can find the definitions quite easily or I can find them for you, as they are very different.
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On June 12 2013 22:48 DonKey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 22:39 shekelberg wrote:On June 12 2013 22:36 HaRuHi wrote:On June 12 2013 22:28 shekelberg wrote:On June 12 2013 22:27 guN-viCe wrote:Did you guys know homosexuality is common in some animals?Imagine having sex with a man, are you repulsed? That's how a gay man feels when he thinks about women. Homosexuality exists, deal with it. It's not going away, ever. I feel like Russia and quite a few other countries are like the USA 50-100 years ago. Religion combined with ignorance and dogma strikes again Rape is also natural in animals, it doesn't mean it's good I am shocked and hurt. You do get the differnce between rape and the consensual act of love? Also: Come on Murrica. Free the shit out of them. Redeem yourself for all the wars you did for oil, do one for freedom. A 14 year old and a 40 year old both consent "in the name of love" do you support that too? When did pedophilia come into this and how does it relate on a 1:1 scale to homosexuality? Either you are just nitpicking his statement which has no relation to the thread or you are comparing homosexuality to pedophilia. Which if you do not know the difference between the two you can find the definitions quite easily or I can find them for you, as they are very different.
He compared rape and homosexuality a few posts ago. Don't feed him, he gets uglier...
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On June 12 2013 22:45 PerryHooter wrote:
Sounds like another step towards full out dictatorship. Pretty scary.
I do not think putin needed the gay issue to be considered a legitimate dictator
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On June 12 2013 22:40 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 22:32 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:21 theking1 wrote:I am suprised that so many homophobic posters exist in this forum.Sadly humanity until a great genocide happens does not learn its lesson.The Jews were persecuted for hundreds of years and only after Hitler commited the Hollocaust was antisemitism finally condemned.Now the gays are going to a simmilar process.until many of them are butchered no one will take any actions against inhumane violence against a group of human beings who have done nothing to no one and wish to live their life the way they decide . I am here via phone so sry for not quoting you previous post. Aside from your terrible try to act as intelectual by writing my psychological profile, you completely misunderstood my point. I dont hate someone just for being gay, jew, black or whatever, I just dont want someone murdered or beatan up or damaged whole city just so they can walk 2 kms. If society doeeent approve it, deal with it, or youre saying its easier to change 7 million peoples then few hundreds of gays? Hey serbian homophobe thank you for replying! The discussion isnt about damage done to public space.the discussion is about this comment of yours: "I agree. I havent said that I wouldnt give them (some)rights. They are people after all. I would just like to stop parading and spreading homosexualism that much. But main thing is that here, parades arent really made for gays to get rights but to "inject finger in the eye" of straight people. Plus they get much of publicity as a unrelevant minority." Now answer my previous question: Would you say the same if a swiss politician decided to ban Serbian restaurants and Serbian dinner manifestations simply because he feels that serbians are "inject finger in the eye" of the western european populace and are an unrelevant minority?Just asking. Thank you in advance for your answer
If society isn't ready to accept homosexualism why would you want to march on parades knowing that there would be some kind of trouble?
If small group of Serbs in Switzerland would be unwanted just by their existing(from any reason), and country couldn't protect them, then I would request for ban personally for restaurant. It's not fair to Serbs but it is for other 99% of people living. You can't have perfect world where everyone is happy and satisfied.
Thanks for manners Romanian realist!
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ah come the fuck on my day was already being shitty enough. good luck to russia's lgbt community.
On June 12 2013 22:50 ZeRoX-45 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 22:40 theking1 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:32 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:21 theking1 wrote:I am suprised that so many homophobic posters exist in this forum.Sadly humanity until a great genocide happens does not learn its lesson.The Jews were persecuted for hundreds of years and only after Hitler commited the Hollocaust was antisemitism finally condemned.Now the gays are going to a simmilar process.until many of them are butchered no one will take any actions against inhumane violence against a group of human beings who have done nothing to no one and wish to live their life the way they decide . I am here via phone so sry for not quoting you previous post. Aside from your terrible try to act as intelectual by writing my psychological profile, you completely misunderstood my point. I dont hate someone just for being gay, jew, black or whatever, I just dont want someone murdered or beatan up or damaged whole city just so they can walk 2 kms. If society doeeent approve it, deal with it, or youre saying its easier to change 7 million peoples then few hundreds of gays? Hey serbian homophobe thank you for replying! The discussion isnt about damage done to public space.the discussion is about this comment of yours: "I agree. I havent said that I wouldnt give them (some)rights. They are people after all. I would just like to stop parading and spreading homosexualism that much. But main thing is that here, parades arent really made for gays to get rights but to "inject finger in the eye" of straight people. Plus they get much of publicity as a unrelevant minority." Now answer my previous question: Would you say the same if a swiss politician decided to ban Serbian restaurants and Serbian dinner manifestations simply because he feels that serbians are "inject finger in the eye" of the western european populace and are an unrelevant minority?Just asking. Thank you in advance for your answer If society isn't ready to accept homosexualism why would you want to march on parades knowing that there would be some kind of trouble? If small group of Serbs in Switzerland would be unwanted just by their existing(from any reason), and country couldn't protect them, then I would request for ban personally for restaurant. It's not fair to Serbs but it is for other 99% of people living. You can't have perfect world where everyone is happy and satisfied. Thanks for manners Romanian realist!
ITS HOMOSEXUALITY not HOMOSEXUALISM.
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On June 12 2013 22:48 DonKey_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 22:39 shekelberg wrote:On June 12 2013 22:36 HaRuHi wrote:On June 12 2013 22:28 shekelberg wrote:On June 12 2013 22:27 guN-viCe wrote:Did you guys know homosexuality is common in some animals?Imagine having sex with a man, are you repulsed? That's how a gay man feels when he thinks about women. Homosexuality exists, deal with it. It's not going away, ever. I feel like Russia and quite a few other countries are like the USA 50-100 years ago. Religion combined with ignorance and dogma strikes again Rape is also natural in animals, it doesn't mean it's good I am shocked and hurt. You do get the differnce between rape and the consensual act of love? Also: Come on Murrica. Free the shit out of them. Redeem yourself for all the wars you did for oil, do one for freedom. A 14 year old and a 40 year old both consent "in the name of love" do you support that too? When did pedophilia come into this and how does it relate on a 1:1 scale to homosexuality? Either you are just nitpicking his statement which has no relation to the thread or you are comparing homosexuality to pedophilia. Which if you do not know the difference between the two you can find the definitions quite easily or I can find them for you, as they are very different.
When you're a close-minded bigot, they really are the same thing. That is, they are wrong.
-_-
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Gay discrimination there, massive problems in the US. Do you Mericans really have any right to laugh at them for being so backward?
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On June 12 2013 22:40 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 22:37 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:29 DertoQq wrote:On June 12 2013 22:20 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:14 DertoQq wrote:On June 12 2013 22:03 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 21:50 Myles wrote:On June 12 2013 21:48 marvellosity wrote:On June 12 2013 21:43 ZeRoX-45 wrote:
I am supportive about Russia and Ukraine about anti-homo laws. I wish my goverment could bring in the same legislative about this topic.
Main thing to question here is kind of the society you live in. In my country, Russia or some others, beng gay is unacceptable by large majority of people. So I do not understand the need if having marriages or parades if you know that people will brake half of the city apart that day or burn something if they accept gay marriages in some law. It's almost fault of gays as much as fault of people who do not want them on the streets.
On the other side, I know I can't change someones sexual behaviours but also I dont need to look at them few days per year. I dont also think orthodox chiristianity has something to do with this subject but here church(also Orthodox) is strongly opposing "pride" marches and that is one if the reasons here pride never sucedeed and never will. I would let them do whatever they want behind their walls but do not make us and our children watch that attrocious parade in the middle of capital. Shades of "women are partly to blame when they get raped". icky. Yea, and how dare a black person try to sit next to a white. They brought the discrimination on themselves and the violence against them was almost their fault as much as the attackers. If you would go to the same restaurant every day knowing that no one cant protect you from being beaten by waiter, could you say that its notnyour fault? Police cant protect few thousands of people if 100 times more people are attacking them. Its just non sence. If I go to a restaurant and get beat up by the waiter for no reasons, he would be fired and probably arrested. The boss would give me free meal for life and then I would happily go back to this restaurant again ! yep, that's how it feels living in a civilized country. I pointed out example where anyone cant protect you. In some countries, police cant protect gqys since there is multiple times more people against gays then there is police. One more reason to actually fight for your rights (and by "you" I mean them/us fighting people like you you). If you can't go outside because you are afraid of getting beaten up, then there is something seriously wrong with your country. (and no, locking those people inside isn't a solution). If everyone were like you, black people would still be slaves in America and we would still have a king in France. I dont want to fight alone for gay people rights, I just do not care about them enough. If they can't accept socety the way it is, they could move in France and live normal life. I am sorry for them but there's nothing I can do. It's not their responsibility to change themselves for society or move away because they're not accepted. That line of thought is straight from the 13th century. It's society's job to accept people the way they are as long as they do no harm to others. And I don't know about anyone else but I don't feel especially harmed when I meet a homosexual person.
Well, try to come here or Ukraine, Russia, Georgia on pride. Then you will understand what I am talking about. It's not 13th century it's different opinion. Just if westerners think gay is ok, it doesen't mean it actually is acceptable to everyone. Not everyone are same.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On June 12 2013 22:51 Xahhk wrote:
Gay discrimination there, massive problems in the US. Do you Mericans really have any right to laugh at them for being so backward?
Yes, the two aren't really comparable like that.
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On June 12 2013 22:29 Monsen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 21:05 AxUU wrote:On June 12 2013 21:03 marvellosity wrote:On June 12 2013 20:29 AxUU wrote:On June 12 2013 20:12 cloneThorN wrote:On June 12 2013 20:04 Sword of Omens wrote:On June 12 2013 19:42 Friedrich Nietzsche wrote:
The recent gay pride parade suffered a heavy and violent blow after people threw eggs and water at gay rights movement activists and participants of the parade. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/B5wkYTm.jpg) Got this from my feed this morning! This is beyond unbelievable! Wow... What kind of sick freak throws eggs at peaceful protesters, even aiming for their head at such a distance? They are just asking for equal rights, they are not trying to somehow magically convert people into gayness(?). Meanwhile, fanatic douschebags like the guy in this photo, are attacking them for no other reason than seeing the protesters as inferior creatures. Can't America "liberate" Russia? They have gas and oil you know  I don't think America actually is capable of doing that. But that aside, most gay people I have met have been friendly, and I have nothing against them, but they often go about parading how gay they are and how it's good to be gay which irritates me to death, they also seem to be offended when they ask me if I'm gay and I say that I'm not. Btw I laughed at the picture, don't even know why. But that aside, most straight people I have met have been friendly, and I have nothing against them, but they often go about parading how straight they are and how it's good to be straight which irritates me to death, they also seem to be offended when they ask me if I'm straight and I say that I'm not. Btw I laughed at the fact that you laughed at innocent, peaceful people being attacked, don't even know why. Most straight people don't go about parading how straight they are etc. Atleast I have NEVER heard anyone say that. You must be from reddit. You must be from Romania.
What? I'm not, can't you read? (I know it doesn't prove which nationality you belong to, but I do believe it says Finland next to my name.)
Even though being from Romania would be better than being from Reddit, we're going beside the point here.
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Just another push by the Russian government back towards a Christian value dominated parliament and governing system that relies on superstition and fear-mongering to scapegoat the public's attention away from real problems like the stagnating industrial system, and the culture or irresponsibility and lack of direction in the young people. The close relationship between Putin's government reign and the Russian Orthodox Church might have been going unnoticed in the past decade, but it's inevitable that a push such as this one happens. :/
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On June 12 2013 22:51 ZeRoX-45 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 22:40 DarkLordOlli wrote:On June 12 2013 22:37 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:29 DertoQq wrote:On June 12 2013 22:20 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:14 DertoQq wrote:On June 12 2013 22:03 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 21:50 Myles wrote:On June 12 2013 21:48 marvellosity wrote:On June 12 2013 21:43 ZeRoX-45 wrote:
I am supportive about Russia and Ukraine about anti-homo laws. I wish my goverment could bring in the same legislative about this topic.
Main thing to question here is kind of the society you live in. In my country, Russia or some others, beng gay is unacceptable by large majority of people. So I do not understand the need if having marriages or parades if you know that people will brake half of the city apart that day or burn something if they accept gay marriages in some law. It's almost fault of gays as much as fault of people who do not want them on the streets.
On the other side, I know I can't change someones sexual behaviours but also I dont need to look at them few days per year. I dont also think orthodox chiristianity has something to do with this subject but here church(also Orthodox) is strongly opposing "pride" marches and that is one if the reasons here pride never sucedeed and never will. I would let them do whatever they want behind their walls but do not make us and our children watch that attrocious parade in the middle of capital. Shades of "women are partly to blame when they get raped". icky. Yea, and how dare a black person try to sit next to a white. They brought the discrimination on themselves and the violence against them was almost their fault as much as the attackers. If you would go to the same restaurant every day knowing that no one cant protect you from being beaten by waiter, could you say that its notnyour fault? Police cant protect few thousands of people if 100 times more people are attacking them. Its just non sence. If I go to a restaurant and get beat up by the waiter for no reasons, he would be fired and probably arrested. The boss would give me free meal for life and then I would happily go back to this restaurant again ! yep, that's how it feels living in a civilized country. I pointed out example where anyone cant protect you. In some countries, police cant protect gqys since there is multiple times more people against gays then there is police. One more reason to actually fight for your rights (and by "you" I mean them/us fighting people like you you). If you can't go outside because you are afraid of getting beaten up, then there is something seriously wrong with your country. (and no, locking those people inside isn't a solution). If everyone were like you, black people would still be slaves in America and we would still have a king in France. I dont want to fight alone for gay people rights, I just do not care about them enough. If they can't accept socety the way it is, they could move in France and live normal life. I am sorry for them but there's nothing I can do. It's not their responsibility to change themselves for society or move away because they're not accepted. That line of thought is straight from the 13th century. It's society's job to accept people the way they are as long as they do no harm to others. And I don't know about anyone else but I don't feel especially harmed when I meet a homosexual person. Well, try to come here or Ukraine, Russia, Georgia on pride. Then you will understand what I am talking about. It's not 13th century it's different opinion. Just if westerners think gay is ok, it doesen't mean it actually is acceptable to everyone. Not everyone are same.
Yeah, some people are racist or homophobic, what's your point?
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On June 12 2013 22:44 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 22:37 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:29 DertoQq wrote:On June 12 2013 22:20 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:14 DertoQq wrote:On June 12 2013 22:03 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 21:50 Myles wrote:On June 12 2013 21:48 marvellosity wrote:On June 12 2013 21:43 ZeRoX-45 wrote:
I am supportive about Russia and Ukraine about anti-homo laws. I wish my goverment could bring in the same legislative about this topic.
Main thing to question here is kind of the society you live in. In my country, Russia or some others, beng gay is unacceptable by large majority of people. So I do not understand the need if having marriages or parades if you know that people will brake half of the city apart that day or burn something if they accept gay marriages in some law. It's almost fault of gays as much as fault of people who do not want them on the streets.
On the other side, I know I can't change someones sexual behaviours but also I dont need to look at them few days per year. I dont also think orthodox chiristianity has something to do with this subject but here church(also Orthodox) is strongly opposing "pride" marches and that is one if the reasons here pride never sucedeed and never will. I would let them do whatever they want behind their walls but do not make us and our children watch that attrocious parade in the middle of capital. Shades of "women are partly to blame when they get raped". icky. Yea, and how dare a black person try to sit next to a white. They brought the discrimination on themselves and the violence against them was almost their fault as much as the attackers. If you would go to the same restaurant every day knowing that no one cant protect you from being beaten by waiter, could you say that its notnyour fault? Police cant protect few thousands of people if 100 times more people are attacking them. Its just non sence. If I go to a restaurant and get beat up by the waiter for no reasons, he would be fired and probably arrested. The boss would give me free meal for life and then I would happily go back to this restaurant again ! yep, that's how it feels living in a civilized country. I pointed out example where anyone cant protect you. In some countries, police cant protect gqys since there is multiple times more people against gays then there is police. One more reason to actually fight for your rights (and by "you" I mean them/us fighting people like you you). If you can't go outside because you are afraid of getting beaten up, then there is something seriously wrong with your country. (and no, locking those people inside isn't a solution). If everyone were like you, black people would still be slaves in America and we would still have a king in France. I dont want to fight alone for gay people rights, I just do not care about them enough. If they can't accept socety the way it is, they could move in France and live normal life. I am sorry for them but there's nothing I can do. There is a very big thing that you can do. If you have children then you can raise them to be tolerant. That's all people have to do. The vast majority of intolerance is instilled in us when we are children.
I can do that but I can't protect or fight for gay rights.
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On June 12 2013 22:43 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 22:40 Jojo131 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:28 jxx wrote:On June 12 2013 22:20 Jojo131 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:15 Mefano wrote:On June 12 2013 22:10 Jojo131 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:03 Reason wrote:On June 12 2013 22:00 Jojo131 wrote:On June 12 2013 21:56 sushiman wrote:On June 12 2013 21:41 Incognoto wrote:
[quote]
What I put in bold is something that happens quite, quite frequently. The argument isn't that gay parents are worse than no parents, that's obviously not true. The argument is that straight parents are probably better than gay parents, for reasons I've explained above. You'll notice I said "given the current state of things". There is still a large amount of hate directed towards gay people and chances are a kid with gay parents will be picked on at school for it. There assholes everywhere. Furthermore, as I said before, a child is probably better off with a mother and a father than with two parents of the same sex. I say probably because there's no real way to be sure. But there's something about having an actual mother and father as parents which just bodes well. As I said before, you don't interact with your mother the same way you interact with your father. It's not something that can rationally be explained, at least not by me.
I won't go on in this thread or argument, it's way too controversial and I have better things to do with my time. I just wanted to post food for thought. What, so straight parents are better because... they can teach their children to be ignorant and get away with it? Or because some vague reason that a mother and father are somehow better than two mothers or two fathers, but you can't give a reason why other than it can't be "rationally explained"? To get the age old argument out of the cupboard - what about single parents then? They should objectively be worse than a gay couple since they lack a father/mother figure and also has less time for their child than two parents would, yet there's plenty of children to single parents that grow up just fine. And if you're so worried about them lacking a role model of another sex than your parents, you can be sure there's other adults around that could fill that part, whether they are relatives or friends of the parents - and even then I doubt it would be an issue, since two people of the same sex won't have the same personality, so they would still fill different roles in the upbringing of a child. And as I said before, caring parents are better than an orphanage. It's not like there's fierce competition to adopt children, the supply tends to exceed the demands, unfortunately. As a dad it's harder (impossible?) to empathize if your girl is having her period/is pregnant. Delegating that to someone else isn't always an option that is available. You can educate yourself on the subject all you want, but who knows if that'll be enough to convince her that "you're there" the same way a woman would be. Same goes for single parents. Just saying, the argument has some value. The argument has no value, it's commonly known homosexual parents are just as good at bringing up children as heterosexual parents. I'm almost convinced you just decided to sidestep what I just typed -_- Being unable to empathize to biological processes of the opposite sex is a protruding disadvantage to same-sex couples, when the opportunity to seek external help isn't always available. According to what study? There's no statistics needed to be done. As a guy I can't invoke previous pains of being pregnant, or having a period. I cannot empathize with a woman's pain the same way another woman can. It's a type of emotional support I cannot provide as a man. This is completely ridiculous. So if your child loses a limb to some accident then he is gonna hate you because you can't empathize with that kind of pain since you never lost a limb? Everyone can understand pain and fathers/mothers feel more because there is a connection (love) involved, it doesn't matter if there aren't the same sex, when someone you love is in agony you feel for them and will be there for them no matter what, that is human nature. You can't anticipate that your child will lose a leg, so you have no agency in your inability to empathize in this situation. Being able to empathize with your child as she's pregnant/giving birth is dependent of whether you're a gay couple or not (ie. if you are then you cant, if you are not than you can). And of course you can still try to feel for them through love, but you're not as "there" with them as someone else who's shared the same experience. The significance of this factor is situational to the child and the incident. So what about divorced families where the daughter is living with the single father? Heterosexual divorce is EXTREMELY common in the U.S. and it is considered perfectly acceptable and healthy. There's no mother there. Also, what about lesbian parents? Wouldn't the daughter have two parents who could empathize with her then?
A lot of stuff to reply to, not sure I'll catch em all
Is it? My impression was that children from divorced families go through their own traumas which are not exclusive to heterosexual families.
The significance (as asked by someone else, not necessarily aimed at you) is solely dependent on the child during the incident and whether she needs that type of support from her mother. The argument I gave was that without a mother (in the context of man/man couples and a pregnant daughter) it is a disadvantage not to be able to provide this type of support if she needs it when external help is not always available.
You know that there is plenty of gay women that gave birth, do you ?
Admittedly, the scenario I outlined seems more directed at gay men couples, as gay women don;t seem to be at a disadvantage to heterosexual couples regardless of having a son or daughter. Thats a fair point.
updating with the other replies as I find more
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On June 12 2013 22:51 ZeRoX-45 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 22:40 DarkLordOlli wrote:On June 12 2013 22:37 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:29 DertoQq wrote:On June 12 2013 22:20 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 22:14 DertoQq wrote:On June 12 2013 22:03 ZeRoX-45 wrote:On June 12 2013 21:50 Myles wrote:On June 12 2013 21:48 marvellosity wrote:On June 12 2013 21:43 ZeRoX-45 wrote:
I am supportive about Russia and Ukraine about anti-homo laws. I wish my goverment could bring in the same legislative about this topic.
Main thing to question here is kind of the society you live in. In my country, Russia or some others, beng gay is unacceptable by large majority of people. So I do not understand the need if having marriages or parades if you know that people will brake half of the city apart that day or burn something if they accept gay marriages in some law. It's almost fault of gays as much as fault of people who do not want them on the streets.
On the other side, I know I can't change someones sexual behaviours but also I dont need to look at them few days per year. I dont also think orthodox chiristianity has something to do with this subject but here church(also Orthodox) is strongly opposing "pride" marches and that is one if the reasons here pride never sucedeed and never will. I would let them do whatever they want behind their walls but do not make us and our children watch that attrocious parade in the middle of capital. Shades of "women are partly to blame when they get raped". icky. Yea, and how dare a black person try to sit next to a white. They brought the discrimination on themselves and the violence against them was almost their fault as much as the attackers. If you would go to the same restaurant every day knowing that no one cant protect you from being beaten by waiter, could you say that its notnyour fault? Police cant protect few thousands of people if 100 times more people are attacking them. Its just non sence. If I go to a restaurant and get beat up by the waiter for no reasons, he would be fired and probably arrested. The boss would give me free meal for life and then I would happily go back to this restaurant again ! yep, that's how it feels living in a civilized country. I pointed out example where anyone cant protect you. In some countries, police cant protect gqys since there is multiple times more people against gays then there is police. One more reason to actually fight for your rights (and by "you" I mean them/us fighting people like you you). If you can't go outside because you are afraid of getting beaten up, then there is something seriously wrong with your country. (and no, locking those people inside isn't a solution). If everyone were like you, black people would still be slaves in America and we would still have a king in France. I dont want to fight alone for gay people rights, I just do not care about them enough. If they can't accept socety the way it is, they could move in France and live normal life. I am sorry for them but there's nothing I can do. It's not their responsibility to change themselves for society or move away because they're not accepted. That line of thought is straight from the 13th century. It's society's job to accept people the way they are as long as they do no harm to others. And I don't know about anyone else but I don't feel especially harmed when I meet a homosexual person. Well, try to come here or Ukraine, Russia, Georgia on pride. Then you will understand what I am talking about. It's not 13th century it's different opinion. Just if westerners think gay is ok, it doesen't mean it actually is acceptable to everyone. Not everyone are same.
It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of education and understanding what homosexuality is. Rational people know all too well that laws of this kind are completely disgraceful to human society (this also includes rational, educated people from Russia, if you bothered to read this very thread you're posting in).
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EPT
