On January 21 2013 18:39 Godwrath wrote: I think the bigger issue is not the caster themselves, but how the format is not working for a foreign audience. Kespa should use the Tastosis formula at GOMTV, where they have their own desk, we can see them talking after/before games, building up storylines, etc.
I think that is an issue, but not the bigger issue. A few people are concerned about the intermissions, and also about the Korean caster background noise, but those are things that will automatically get fixed over time as PL gets themselves situated more comfortably. The issue that needs to be brought up is the casters' ability to cast, which is why that is the bigger issue.
To be fair, not many casters around would know how to properly cast those games on Kespa maps, specially if they don't have access to an observer for their own.
To be honest, this is less than a weeks' worth of research done for your full time job. It's not hard.... Ofc most casters can't do that prior to researching them. These 2 casters wouldn't have been able to do with before researching them either. That doesn't make them better casters, that makes them paid PL casters. Pretty general and easy requirements if that's all you're looking for...
On January 21 2013 19:18 Visage814 wrote: I'm actually really surprised how many complain about SNM's accent... it sounds totally fine to me, I've never had a single problem understanding him. He might have a slight lisp, but it's really not that bad. He speaks better english than a ton of people I know (especially all my math teachers... UGH)
Yeah actually, I was thinking about it too. Mainly because there are few very praised casters, whose accent is much worse - Khaldor being the prime example, and mostly all the players that are casting like Grubby, TLO or Tod to name a few. (Don't get me wrong, I love all those and I don't really mind accents, it just seems weird to me that someone complaine about SNM accent which is nearly non-existent).
I don't care about accents or chemistry as much as just wanting more analysis. They both feel like play-by-play casters and two play-by-play casters is always a poor combination IMO. Analysis is good. Please do it more!
I no longer watch SPL because of SNM, and if I do its the korean stream/VODs. Whiplash is "OK", but not very knowledgable. If you are reading this and you want to improve, then SNM in particular, you need to work on your english language, pronunciation and game knowledge. Most of what you say is either wrong, needless filler or contradicting whiplash.
So many plain out wrong calls. And so few enthusiasm. I expect 2 things from a commentator, analyzing with great accuracy what's going on and bringing a certain degree of excitement. I've no business in someone telling me with a straight voice what I can already see on my screen.
It's true they have come a long way since the beginning, but their casting is still subpar and will remain so for quite a while. I do not believe proleague is the proper place to learn casting. Little game knowledge, not a very solid interaction between the two, a lot of gibberish, poor overall production quality overall.
they just need improvement + need more emotion when they speak with a huge engagement. that's what makes korean audio so good even if i don't understand a word.
SNM needs some to do some serious, serious work on his speech. The lisp, the stutters, the inability to put together a smooth sentence, it's all incredibly jarring and annoying, so much so that I can't listen to it. Your job is to talk. You need to be good at talking. You aren't good at talking. Fix this.
Whiplash is a lot better at talking, but definitely needs to work on interpreting better what he's seeing.
And there's also no chemistry between the casters. Neither seems to understand the humor of the other at all, especially SNM, and it results in a lot of awkward exchanges.
On January 21 2013 20:12 SiroKO wrote: So many plain out wrong calls. And so few enthusiasm. I expect 2 things from a commentator, analyzing with great accuracy what's going on and bringing a certain degree of excitement. I've no business in someone telling me with a straight voice what I can already see on my screen.
I think they would be better off not trying to predict anything, for this reason. It would be better if they just stick to describing the action as it happens. If they act excited by what is happening it will be a lot better than throwing out 3-4 wrong predictions in the first 5-8 minutes of every game.
Whiplash is pretty good but SNM lacks basic knowledge about the game needed to cast. The number of times he's completely misread openings/builds while trying to cover it up with ~hilarious~ jokes has gotten to the point where it beggars belief.
On January 21 2013 20:12 SiroKO wrote: So many plain out wrong calls. And so few enthusiasm. I expect 2 things from a commentator, analyzing with great accuracy what's going on and bringing a certain degree of excitement. I've no business in someone telling me with a straight voice what I can already see on my screen.
I think they would be better off not trying to predict anything, for this reason. It would be better if they just stick to describing the action as it happens. If they act excited by what is happening it will be a lot better than throwing out 3-4 wrong predictions in the first 5-8 minutes of every game.
I agree with you. Bring excitement and stop trying to analyze what you know nothing of. Seeing them wondering why there were no helions creep tumor denial against 4 queens, or whether or not 25 magix boxed mutalisks would lose to 4 unrepairable thors was quite painful.
I'm not asking them to be at a Thud (French IronSquid caster) or BW Tasteless level, but at least step your game up.
ps : I acknowledge how hard it is to get excited behind a computer desk at night, and I personaly wouldn't be able to do it without taking substances.
Overall I think they've improved significantly since they've started. I can watch the stream without putting it on mute, the commentary is better and there is less yelling. There's been more play by play and less false predictions. I hope that the thread can provide some constructive feedback. I think an important point is to find a good balance for the back and forth between the 2 casters, complement each other's qualities, give each other space, focus on what you're comfortable with. Good luck guys.
Whiplash is good. He seems to have decent analysis (he's rarely wrong enough to the point where the opposite of what he says is true). I dislike SNM though. He's not very fluid with his speech or something. A weird sort of cadence. And he doesn't seem to know much about the game.
Also, OP you should create two different polls, one for Whiplash and one for SNM.
I believe SNM speaks Korean, right? If so, then I suggest you get inside info from Korean teams/players so you can give such nuggets during the cast. Also you can listen to Korean casts of games to learn the game even if you don't really want to play. I know you're not in Korea, but surely through connections you can get at least solid info on Kespa teams, random nuggets that aren't confidential but still allow viewers to connect more with the players.
I think connection with players is very important. And with TL partnering up with Kespa, this gives a brand new inside look at kespa team houses and players, to bring players and fans together. Perhaps have some fans ask the players some questions, and have those answers during the cast. It's not always about dry knowledge. A lot of fans root for teams/players through emotion. And this emotional attachment was mostly deprived during the BW days due to the scene being totally Korean. This should be rectified in SC2 if Kespa truly want to make this an international market.
The casters was in my opinion really bad at the beginning, but after working together some, they got better. It's still not being close to enjoyable as tastosis, but a step in the right direction. I hope they continue working hard to improve.
On January 21 2013 19:18 Visage814 wrote: I'm actually really surprised how many complain about SNM's accent... it sounds totally fine to me, I've never had a single problem understanding him. He might have a slight lisp, but it's really not that bad. He speaks better english than a ton of people I know (especially all my math teachers... UGH)
Yeah actually, I was thinking about it too. Mainly because there are few very praised casters, whose accent is much worse - Khaldor being the prime example, and mostly all the players that are casting like Grubby, TLO or Tod to name a few. (Don't get me wrong, I love all those and I don't really mind accents, it just seems weird to me that someone complaine about SNM accent which is nearly non-existent).
You say his accent is nearly non-existent, but you aren't a native english speaker. to an native english speaker, foreigners accents are glaringly obvious, SNM's is extremely pronounced. I don't care about the accent, but its obviously there. The amount of people that think Soe is actually English annoys me, to any native speaker she is obviously not English, she has the least accent of any non-native caster/personality in SC2 but to someone who grew up less than 15 miles from Buckingham Palace, its quite obvious that she is German.
There is always a twang, no matter how slight and British/Americans/Australians will always pick up on it. It is afterall, our language. I actually speak English as a second language, technically, as I spoke French until the age of 4, however I've always lived in the Uk so I have a UK accent. When I speak French, even tho I do if flawlessly, a French person can still tell I'm not French because my accent is always slightly off to their ear.
One obvious thing that I notice that bugs me, can't even remember if its SNM who says it is......"in the meanwhile". That hurts every time I hear it. You can either say "meanwhile" or "in the mean time" I would hope that its not the native english speaker making the mistake constantly ;p
To me, in a vaccum, SNM and whiplash have improved loads. However, when compared to apollo, tastosis, bitterdam, wolfdor etc... They are nowhere near... Which is sad because SPL is actually quite good to watch.
EPT
