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Nice thread  . I only watch the vods from twitch but here's my opinion.
I think Whiplash is decent as one can feel he has at least some knowledge of the game and doesn't state things when he's unsure. The only thing he is lacking imo is the energy to make it lively when a fight occurs. I have barely ever heard him commentate a fight.
I think it is partially due to SNM's presence. I don't know this guy personnally but I strongly feel, through his casts, that he is trying (too ?) hard to justify his presence. Maybe it is in response to the community throwing so much at him in the beginning, idk. I can hear his stammering has improved, but he himself hasn't. He tries to predict who's gonna win a fight way before it is even possible to say it. This huge default ends up in really really long and horribly annoying sentences like, for example (see JD vs. Soulkey on Neo Caldeum from 2 days ago) :
"It seems like JD has more roaches however Soulkey has a better concave however it looks like JD's fungal will make the difference, however Soulkey has an advantage in upgrades however JD's reinforcements come faster"
or something along those lines..... Ten thousand "however" later I was relieved the fight was over.
So if SNM is watching this thread, please stop trying so hard to do something that you're obviously not meant for. I don't necessarily mean the whole casting thing, I mean the casting a fight thing. I think most people would appreciate by far a fight where the commentators may not be super lively but at least they're not annoying. Like one the guys above said, go back to the basics, describe what's happening, talk about what you know for a fact and for everyone's peace stop trying to analyse stuff that you obviously have little understanding of.
To Whiplash now, I want to say that he's actually nice to listen to. His voice reminds me a bit of Husky's, and I feel this guy has a huge potential to becoming a nice caster. But atm SNM is taking way too much space for Whiplash to be able to reveal himself completely. I think it's too bad. I feel Whiplash could cast very nicely with someone like MrBitter for example, or at least I would like to see that.
EDIT : I do realise that the guys are not IN the game and can't give informations aside what the observer shows them. I think that must add quite a lot to their discomfort and I am clearly willing to give them credit and time to improve. I do feel, however, that SNM has sooooooooo much road ahead of him, both on the pronunciation and the analysis, that he could as well just drop it. Sorry.
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Whiplash is decent. He has a very nice speaking voice and knows a decent amount of meta / game knowledge. II think he'll improve to be a solid caster over time. SNM is the problem. He has a very poor casting voice (the lisp) and he doesn't analyze things correctly at all (not going to spell out everything he got wrong because that would take me a while). The small talk between him and Whiplash is cringe worthy at times because SNM seems a bit thick headed to some of Whiplashes comments / jokes.
Whiplash: 5/10 - Average caster but I can stand him as long as hes improving.
SNM: 1/10 - Shouldn't be a caster and I don't see hope for him. Hes just annoying to hear speak.
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I don't really have a strong opinion regarding casters usually, but one of these two guys has an extremely annoying voice. It kinda sounds like he has some kind of speech impediment. Now if that's true I feel sorry for the guy and I'm not here to bash him, but I would say it's a poor career choice to become a caster when you have a voice like that  I know he cannot do much about it but then just don't be a caster. I'm not tall, I don't try to become a basketball pro.
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I'm not very into caster bashing, but they happened to call players names several times. That's end of the story for me. Not to mention that nine times out of ten where they said that the player was playing bad, without any valid circumstantial argumentation, the player actually ended up winning, eg: Calling Jaehoon Failhoon two minutes before he closed up the game.
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Its not that bad as people make it out ot be. I have no problem watching it, the commentary is pretty solid. SMNs voice is kinda wirred, but its not like unwatchable.
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Only thing I'm still not happy with currently is the names. So many times either switching the player's names, or calling one player by another player's name.
Otherwise, improvements are being made.
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At first, I pretty much didn't like them very much. But, after a while, I think they pretty much grew on me and I started to like them a lot better. Pretty much, they roasted my old opinion of them and now that is toast. Pretty much my only criticism of them is pretty much to avoid pretty much reusing the same filler words pretty much. Pretty much too many pretty much extra roasted pretty much words completely pretty much too toast I pretty roast totally pretty sure much toast.
No, but seriously, if you guys are reading this, I want you to know that I think you're improving and you'll be fine if you just speak carefully and avoid the filler words. Nothing says "novice caster" like falling into the same phrases over and over. Other than that, I really have nothing to gripe about.
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On January 21 2013 17:20 laegoose wrote:
Can somebody post a link to the Korean stream please?
On topic: SNM's pronounciation is what bothers me most. Whiplash's speech is pleasure to listen. In my opinion, Whiplash solo commentating would be much better.
Team Liquid is not allowed to post the link to the Korean stream anymore on OGN's orders apparently.
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There's always room for improvement, but I definitely feel like they've both made leaps and bounds since the first time I heard them cast.
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I like how nmetasch said people with negative opinions tend to be more vocal than those with positive opinions. So Whiplash & SNM, keep it up! I may not love the commentating/casting yet (and I mean, yet), but I truly believe I will in the near future!
Cheers.
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SNM: Work on your pacing, pronounciation and just overall speech work.
Whiplash: Work on a better understanding of the game
They're improving which is good to see!
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well to the people who are complaining, there is a reason they are casting and you are not lol!
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I like Whiplash. He's plenty good enough to be there, my only nitpick would be that he needs to work on his charisma a bit...some of his jokes seem really forced, and he can be quite robotic at times.
SNM's biggest weakness is similar; he's just too awkward. He will frequently not understand things that Whiplash says, not understand inflection in English words, and just in general does not seem to be able to have a natural flow in English conversation. I feel that if he were replaced with a notably entertaining color commentator such as TB or Doa, nobody would complain about Whiplash anymore, but the underlying problem is that the two of them together just have zero chemistry.
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EG-TL vs T8:
1) Too many repeated, filler words.
2) Please don't call fights based on supply etc. Ex. being HerO vs Cure: when he was 20 supply down but Cure was still stuck on his half of the map, you were giving cure a huge advantage, when I believe HerO had a better economy at the time and better upgrades. His composition was also better (Cure didn't have enough vikings)
3) Y'all need to work together. PLEASE don't clash. Play off of each other; don't fight each other.
4) Keep working on your play by plays SNM. You're contradicting and going back on what you say too often. Slow down, and think about what you're saying.
On January 21 2013 17:47 GunSec wrote:
well to the people who are complaining, there is a reason they are casting and you are not lol!
Nah. Nathanias is a mid (high?) masters terran who does a solo cast on almost every PL cast (he's sleeping for stars vs stx actually) and does a better job by himself than the two of them do together. It's basically an issue of chemistry. The other problems could EASILY be hidden if SNM can relax a bit, and learn to work with whiplash a bit more.
Unless you wanted to say that the reason was that they were in with kespa, which I certainly am not. Nathanias does a pretty good job though; carries like 2-400 people in his twitch stream, and apparently 800+ on raid call (no audio delay)
+ Show Spoiler +
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SNM: There is definitely room for improvement but i love how there is someone who can translate the korean of SPL on the spot.
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On January 21 2013 17:47 GunSec wrote:
well to the people who are complaining, there is a reason they are casting and you are not lol!
yeah, they live in korea and speak english lol!
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Watched their first casts - dind't liked them at all. Switched to korean stream for a while.
Last week checked them again. I think they are a little better now, but far from being good, very very far.
So for now, I'll be watching korean stream and there's also free VODs on korean language as well so I don't really care.
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On January 21 2013 17:47 GunSec wrote:
well to the people who are complaining, there is a reason they are casting and you are not lol!
Are u smoking ? What the reason ? They play SC better than us then should add a lot of people who are better than them. And We are the audience so we have the right to complain to help SPL improve.
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They should hang out a lot more while not working and work on their chemistry. A ton of the smaller mistakes would be excused if the conversation was more free-flowing than it is not. A lot of the time, one person will joke and the other person won't get it, or one person will correct another person and then an awkward silence ensues.
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EPT
