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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Everyone loves Scourges, including Blizzards... maybe. On old concept arts of Swarm Host I found that Locusts were air unit before. Now Blizzards are using air Locusts in campaign as one of evolutions for Swarm Hosts. Probably with standard melee or ranged attack. What about bringing back Scourges in other form? Without splash as kamikazes against specific targets? And make them able to attack only ground?
This can solve many problems with locusts and weakness of swarm hosts. Many of issues already listed in these threads
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=388313
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386774
Remember flying Scourges in Perimeter RTS game? They had same name as BroodWar zerg unit. They were flying kamikazes, that spawns in big numbers and deal damage to one target on ground (without splash). What if Locusts will be a new Scourges, that will be spawned alltime from Swarm Hosts? They will do kamikaze-damage to specific targets without splash.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MQoZY.jpg) Scourges, spawning at Spounge worlds in perimeter game. Those black-birds are kamikazes, that can ruing half of your base
It will work better against Siege Tanks and Colossies. Also Hydralisks in ZvZ will become a new counter to swarm hosts, or Fungals, to prevent Locusts from kamikaze. This also will buff Zerg air in other form, and still will be swarmy because of big number of Locusts.
Flying Locusts will be available in HotS campaign as one of two evolutions for Swarm Hosts (probably the green Swarm Host, because purple one probably will be a new Lurker). That picture is from game resources.
Well, just make Locusts as Scourges with small damage. Probably not able to attack buildings.
- Widow Mines will still counter them, as they still hit air
- Stalkers will be able to shoot them
- Phoenixes will have good damage against them as light units
- Thors will counter them as they have anti-light damage
- Zerg Swarm-Festors will not work anymore, because you will need anti-air against Locusts. Hydralisks/Corruptors/Fungals to stop those small flying kamikazes
- Siege Tanks and Colossies will not work against Locusts anymore -> more usage for swarm hosts
- New locusts will be able to fly meaning that cliff becomes less a problem for Zergs
- Because Locusts can hit only ground, every air unit will counter it, if it has air-to-air attack.
- Allows ground zerg units not stuck between locusts
- Forces enemy to make more air. Many current stuff already counters new kamikaze-Locusts. Phoenixes, Thors anti-light will be very usefull, because locusts are small and they always will have some splash, corruptors will be more useful as air-to-air counter against locusts, fungals will stop locusts from reaching your units
If you like this idea, support original thread on official EU-forums. If you really like it, make repost on US-forums.
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6160896658#1
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Interesting! But Muta Buff + Scourge.... I don't think so. Viper, Muta, Broodlord, Scourge - sounds balanced!
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Wrong forum but daaaaaaaaamn. This idea is nice. Mass little scourge spawning!  Much more interesting than the current Swarm Host which i think is boring.
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This wouldn't work imo. You can't spawn endless air-bound banelings. There isn't enough aoe that affects air to stop them all. The only thing capable is HSM, storm, and fungal, and you can't endlessly trade units for aoe. If there were enough "scourge," you'd never be able to kill them all in time, even with something super efficient like a marine bio ball (keeping in mind that other things like the hydra and stalker would be prone to huge overkill).
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
The difference of kamikaze Locusts from Scourges is that they can deal less damage and only to ground units, plus they become a free unit, so it can be balanced around it. But they will still able to force enemy to leave their "bunker" positions and start fight against zerg players. The difference is that there will be a bit different solutions to fight with locusts.
Instead Force fields, Time Warps, Colossies, there will be phoenixes/void rays, stalkers, still storms.
Instead siege tanks - Thor anti-light-air attack (finally it will be useful!), vikings, marines, widow mines still hit air and splash damage also can works against flying Locusts
ZvZ becomes more interesting. Because it's now less BroodLord'y unit. Now corruptors and hydralisks will work against new Locusts.
You can't spawn endless air-bound banelings. There isn't enough aoe that affects air to stop them all.
Man, it's enought!
- anti-light phoenixes
- anti-light with splash thors
- widow mines with splash
- archons still counter them
- storms still works great
- makes zvz more fun
even with something super efficient like a marine bio ball (keeping in mind that other things like the hydra and stalker would be prone to huge overkill).
Everything can be balanced. Everything. Buff health a bit, change their speed, add some armor, etc. But flying kamikaze-to-ground locusts will be more fun, than current low-ranged roaches with hydra-HP and slow speed.
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On December 16 2012 02:48 Alryk wrote:
This wouldn't work imo. You can't spawn endless air-bound banelings. There isn't enough aoe that affects air to stop them all. The only thing capable is HSM, storm, and fungal, and you can't endlessly trade units for aoe. If there were enough "scourge," you'd never be able to kill them all in time, even with something super efficient like a marine bio ball (keeping in mind that other things like the hydra and stalker would be prone to huge overkill).
Actually i could very well imagine this to work, they just need to have very low hp so that stalkers and phoenix kill them really fast. Terran should have no big problem either. Banelings isn't the right comparison as they wouldn't have splash.
The current locusts basically add no value, they feel like a cheap verson of the Broodlord's broodlings which spawn much faster.
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wrong forum,but I think the muta already fill the gap in terms of air raider. With all the AA splash damage (thors, psystorm, archon, fungal) I don't think making an even smaller unit with less health would be any viable (because they would tend to clump up a lot)
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
but I think the muta already fill the gap in terms of air raider
They will work differently. Also oracle now fills the role of air-raider as Phoenixes. Plus air-kamikaze-locusts will add more variety to game, especially ZvZ
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Good idea, but in addition, should also make the "scourge" unable to attack buildings.
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So they can't really fly but only glide to the ground (because they cannot attack air)? Or they only detonate if the impact is big enough so they need to pick up speed by using gravity? Sorry to nitpick but I just like the units to make sense (as much as possible).
Scourge could also be an interesting replacement for the IT, albeit an anti air version in that case. If fungal is nerved against air it'll force choosing to use the energy against ground with fungal or scourge with air.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 16 2012 02:58 Traceback wrote:
Good idea, but in addition, should also make the "scourge" unable to attack buildings.
Sounds good too. So it will be a nice alternative to mutalisk rushes.
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On December 16 2012 02:58 Traceback wrote:
Good idea, but in addition, should also make the "scourge" unable to attack buildings.
Would be great because then those annoying saves by lifting from Ts wouldn't be so safe or viable. Finally time for them to feel what its like to have to lose a base and not have a choice 
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On December 16 2012 02:56 Existor wrote:They will work differently. Also oracle now fills the role of air-raider as Phoenixes. Plus air-kamikaze-locusts will add more variety to game, especially ZvZ
Would they? I mean they could just get fungaled and sent to oblivion tbh
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Would they? I mean they could just get fungaled and sent to oblivion tbh
It can be a soft counter, but only for some time, because fungals take energy, when locust will disapear and popup again.
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On December 16 2012 02:48 bobdabillda wrote:
looking at protoss air now, would be interesting. with infestor nerf, maybe some more anti air is needed for zerg
I definitely agree with this. The only midgame anti air option is either Hydralisk or Mutalisks now that Infestors are nerfed. Queens are slow and aren't too strong in general. Mutalisks take a huge commitment and can be easily countered by a simple phoenix tech switch or 1-3 thors. Hydralisks are alright, but they become worse as the game progresses.
If locust could attack air, it would make Zerg midgame more flexible, which is what Blizzard wants.
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On December 16 2012 03:07 Existor wrote:It can be a soft counter, but only for some time, because fungals take energy, when locust will disapear and popup again.
True, true. Also the unit feels really "Zergy" to me. I feel like locusts right now are too slow and weak.
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*shudder*
There's already too much a focus on air in HotS imo.
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On December 16 2012 02:50 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 02:48 Alryk wrote:
This wouldn't work imo. You can't spawn endless air-bound banelings. There isn't enough aoe that affects air to stop them all. The only thing capable is HSM, storm, and fungal, and you can't endlessly trade units for aoe. If there were enough "scourge," you'd never be able to kill them all in time, even with something super efficient like a marine bio ball (keeping in mind that other things like the hydra and stalker would be prone to huge overkill). Actually i could very well imagine this to work, they just need to have very low hp so that stalkers and phoenix kill them really fast. Terran should have no big problem either. Banelings isn't the right comparison as they wouldn't have splash. The current locusts basically add no value, they feel like a cheap verson of the Broodlord's broodlings which spawn much faster.
yea it could work as long as mines continue to hit air, mines/turrets and thors could deal with it as mech and with bio marines would insta kill them although you would need to be really careful with medivacs. but the speed boost would help in tight situations.
maybe a mix of some ground and air?
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I dunno, I think making locusts suicide units (flying or not) only makes one of swam hosts biggest problems even worse: either you have enough of them and completely destroy their defenses while they can't do much to respond, or you don't have enough and end up doing nothing at all.
Making the locusts only deal little damage while exploding doesn't really make sense either, that means swarm hosts are a nuisance at best and can't be used for their intended purpose, breaking through enemy lines.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/edKbf.png)
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