EPTEvery GSL event has had Ro32 terran plurality - Page 5
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Kettchup
United States1911 Posts
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SoniC_eu
Denmark1008 Posts
On December 02 2012 07:35 arcane1129 wrote: EU ladder: http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/eu/1/all KR: (zerg is lowest % in gm and masters actually) http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/fea/1/all Global: http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all Who are you trying to fool? Wow if you look at previous patches, there used to be 800,000 1v1 players at a point. Now there are 250,000. Thats a HUGE reduction. That is much mroe cause for discussion than any balance thread. | ||
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Aterons_toss
Romania1275 Posts
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/6/6c/GSLraceW.png) That is Code S since the beginning of the world til now. Other interesting facts: 7 out of 17 GSL winners are terrans 22 out of 34 finalist are terrans 5 out of top 10 players as earning are terrans The majority of major tournaments ( DH, MLG, IPL, GSL, ESL, NASL, WCS, WCG final ) have been won by terrans. Terran has always dominated, especially in Korea and to some extent they still do but now it seems that the zergs have a fighting chance against them, as for foreign zergs... better for them. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On December 02 2012 14:45 Aterons_toss wrote: Facts against terran QQ-ing, i'm all up for it: That is Code S since the beginning of the world til now. Other interesting facts: 7 out of 17 GSL winners are terrans 22 out of 34 finalist are terrans 5 out of top 10 players as earning are terrans The majority of major tournaments ( DH, MLG, IPL, GSL, ESL, NASL, WCS, WCG final ) have been won by terrans. Terran has always dominated, especially in Korea and to some extent they still do but now it seems that the zergs have a fighting chance against them, as for foreign zergs... better for them. That should read, "only in Korea". | ||
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Steelo_Rivers
United States1968 Posts
On December 02 2012 07:26 QuanticState wrote: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/GOMTV_Global_StarCraft_II_League you're horribly, horribly wrong Naw, he's right. As of 2012, no other terran besides MVP has made it to the finals. | ||
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Tropical Bob
United States127 Posts
On December 02 2012 12:20 SniXSniPe wrote: http://i.imgur.com/TTaiA.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/dwPRQ.png https://s3.amazonaws.com/carlfish-public/2012 Tournament Statistics.pdf I just love how everyone keeps ignoring how Protoss is just as well off as Zerg when it comes to tournament representation and placements. | ||
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Mattumsfox
United States233 Posts
On December 02 2012 14:45 Aterons_toss wrote: Facts against terran QQ-ing, i'm all up for it: That is Code S since the beginning of the world til now. Other interesting facts: 7 out of 17 GSL winners are terrans 22 out of 34 finalist are terrans 5 out of top 10 players as earning are terrans The majority of major tournaments ( DH, MLG, IPL, GSL, ESL, NASL, WCS, WCG final ) have been won by terrans. Terran has always dominated, especially in Korea and to some extent they still do but now it seems that the zergs have a fighting chance against them, as for foreign zergs... better for them. Other interesting 2012 facts: 1 out of 5 GSL winners are terran 2 out of 10 finalist are terran (only MVP) 2 out of top 10 player earnings are terran (MVP & Taeja) | ||
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Fyodor
Canada971 Posts
With Boxer, oov, NaDa, Flash, etc... majority of the role models for pro players were terran. | ||
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ParamouR
Australia28 Posts
On December 02 2012 14:45 Aterons_toss wrote: Facts against terran QQ-ing, i'm all up for it: That is Code S since the beginning of the world til now. Other interesting facts: 7 out of 17 GSL winners are terrans 22 out of 34 finalist are terrans 5 out of top 10 players as earning are terrans The majority of major tournaments ( DH, MLG, IPL, GSL, ESL, NASL, WCS, WCG final ) have been won by terrans. Terran has always dominated, especially in Korea and to some extent they still do but now it seems that the zergs have a fighting chance against them, as for foreign zergs... better for them. This is a really stupid analysis because it includes a period of terran dominance, after which they were nerfed heavily. To get a better view you need to look at stats since the last patch. even just stats for 2012 are a lot more acceptable. My concern is that every major tournament outside of the GSL has been Zerg dominated in terms of participants: IEM: 12 Zerg 9 Protoss 3 Terran. WCS: 15 Zerg 13 Protoss 4 Terran. IPL: 27 Zerg 21 Terran 17 Protoss When you have this constant racial imbalance, AND zergs are having crazy high win rates (at IPL ~60%+) I think there is cause for concern. Zerg sympathizers (players, for the most part), always point at the GSL as the evidence that the game is balanced because it has more Terran participants then Zerg. But look at the Round of 16: 8 Zerg 6 Terran 2 Protoss. Now the Ro16 at IPL 5: 10 Zerg, 3 Protoss, 3 Terran. Zerg are currently dominant in almost every major tournament, and the only one in which they do not have the most participants is GSL. I feel that this is cause enough to question the racial balance of SC2 at the moment. | ||
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cskalias.pbe
United States293 Posts
and its easy to come to the right conclusion via the wrong reasoning | ||
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blacknwhite
Canada6 Posts
I mean look at Gumiho vs. Life in first game of GSTL, it really looked like that the amount of multi-tasking is needed to beat a top level Zerg. He went marine maurauder medivacs, skipping tanks and then gradually mixing in ghosts; it looked like it caught life quite off guard especially with the amount of drops and harassment that Gumiho was able to achieve. It feels like Terran just hasn't adapted, I'll just continue doing hellion reactor expands, although 4/6 queens clearly deflect this build; but I'll continue building hellions and waste 2-3 minutes of in-game time to build 12 hellions to be killed by queens, then complain that I can't get a third. It feels like that ATM, just because reactor hellion expand was largely successful as an opener in 2011, doesn't mean it is now... It used to act as a contain, but can't anymore Terrans just need to change up their opener to deal with the greedy 4-6 queens that Zerg has been doing.. | ||
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Sophia
Germany115 Posts
Right now lesser zergs win, because its so much easier to win with zerg. Look at all these newcomers that you never heared before, that get good results now - and ALL OF THEM ARE ZERG! Now with the Christmas-Brake it would be a good time for a balance-patch. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On December 02 2012 16:18 blacknwhite wrote: Don't you think that Terran is just playing incorrectly? I mean look at Gumiho vs. Life in first game of GSTL, it really looked like that the amount of multi-tasking is needed to beat a top level Zerg. He went marine maurauder medivacs, skipping tanks and then gradually mixing in ghosts; it looked like it caught life quite off guard especially with the amount of drops and harassment that Gumiho was able to achieve. It feels like Terran just hasn't adapted, I'll just continue doing hellion reactor expands, although 4/6 queens clearly deflect this build; but I'll continue building hellions and waste 2-3 minutes of in-game time to build 12 hellions to be killed by queens, then complain that I can't get a third. It feels like that ATM, just because reactor hellion expand was largely successful as an opener in 2011, doesn't mean it is now... It used to act as a contain, but can't anymore Terrans just need to change up their opener to deal with the greedy 4-6 queens that Zerg has been doing.. Reactor hellions at least gives the terran SOME map control. If you rely on just marines, you basically cede map control to zerg once they have ling speed. And then their creep spread goes unchecked until you get at least 2 medivacs out. Hellions are also used to try to force out roaches (zergs don't know if it is just the 6-8 hellions or the 12+ BF hellions) so that the zerg doesn't just make lings and drone up. As for dealing with 4-6 queens openings, with the size of maps these days and the overlord scouting, I am not sure what build except for the most extreme all ins even have a chance of working. | ||
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xPabt
226 Posts
On December 02 2012 15:31 ParamouR wrote: Zerg sympathizers (players, for the most part), always point at the GSL as the evidence that the game is balanced because it has more Terran participants then Zerg. But look at the Round of 16: 8 Zerg 6 Terran 2 Protoss. Now the Ro16 at IPL 5: 10 Zerg, 3 Protoss, 3 Terran. Also Terran vs Zerg winrate in GSL hasn't been 50% since season 1. http://www.gomtv.net/records/index.gom?searchType=3&race=T&vsrace=Z&season=2012&leaguetype=0&leagueid=0&gamever=0&mapid=0 This season was the worst http://www.gomtv.net/records/index.gom?searchType=3&race=T&vsrace=Z&season=2012&leaguetype=20&leagueid=27067&gamever=0&mapid=0 | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
but nice try zerg xD also stats who has won most, you cant take time BEFORE last patchs because #loltroll | ||
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Lunares
United States909 Posts
On December 02 2012 11:50 m0ck wrote: When is the last time that foreign terrans had as good results against korean terrans as foreign zergs had against korean zergs this weekend? That just means terran is harder to play / requires more skill / has a higher skill ceiling to reach "balanced", not that it's fundamentally weaker. Balance only refers to match win rate, not how good a player has to be to get there. Foreign terrans are that much worse than korean terrans since it requires so much micro. On December 02 2012 12:29 Moka wrote: What's the point of this thread? Saying that because Terran have been the most represented in Ro32 in GSL, all Infestor-BroodLord-Queen synergy death ball problem in the late game in PvZ and TvZ becomes irrelevant? All this intense discussion for nothing? The point is that we should be focusing on exactly what you said. We should be looking at making the game more exciting, better for spectating, more strategies etc. Don't focus on balance! Even in the face of large "balance" swings the actual win rates/ race representation has stayed constant. | ||
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LimitSEA
Australia9580 Posts
20 Terrans. The horror. | ||
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link0
United States1071 Posts
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Zrana
United Kingdom698 Posts
On December 02 2012 15:31 ParamouR wrote: This is a really stupid analysis because it includes a period of terran dominance, after which they were nerfed heavily. To get a better view you need to look at stats since the last patch. even just stats for 2012 are a lot more acceptable. My concern is that every major tournament outside of the GSL has been Zerg dominated in terms of participants: IEM: 12 Zerg 9 Protoss 3 Terran. WCS: 15 Zerg 13 Protoss 4 Terran. IPL: 27 Zerg 21 Terran 17 Protoss When you have this constant racial imbalance, AND zergs are having crazy high win rates (at IPL ~60%+) I think there is cause for concern. Zerg sympathizers (players, for the most part), always point at the GSL as the evidence that the game is balanced because it has more Terran participants then Zerg. But look at the Round of 16: 8 Zerg 6 Terran 2 Protoss. Now the Ro16 at IPL 5: 10 Zerg, 3 Protoss, 3 Terran. Zerg are currently dominant in almost every major tournament, and the only one in which they do not have the most participants is GSL. I feel that this is cause enough to question the racial balance of SC2 at the moment. That's actually not logical. A race being more popular just proves that it's...more popular. If you look at the other 2 races and their issues it becomes obvious why more people play zerg. Terran is hard to play properly. It's always been very under-represented in foreign tournaments because foreign players aren't very good. We can see in the GSL that it still has a healthy presence. Protoss is broken in so many ways. There's almost no way for a skilled protoss player to express their skill in game apart from not missing forcefields. You just copy the build order of the month and cross your fingers that your opponent messes up. Thinking up a new build seems to be the only way for a pro protoss player to get recognised. We can see that over SC2's history protoss thinks up a new warpgate timing, gets more popular, timing gets figured out, protoss gets less popular. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
On December 02 2012 14:45 Aterons_toss wrote: Facts against terran QQ-ing, i'm all up for it: That is Code S since the beginning of the world til now. Other interesting facts: 7 out of 17 GSL winners are terrans 22 out of 34 finalist are terrans 5 out of top 10 players as earning are terrans The majority of major tournaments ( DH, MLG, IPL, GSL, ESL, NASL, WCS, WCG final ) have been won by terrans. Terran has always dominated, especially in Korea and to some extent they still do but now it seems that the zergs have a fighting chance against them, as for foreign zergs... better for them. This fails to take into account the fact that old results don't mean so much since the game has developed a lot since then and there have been patches; nor does it include the race percentages in later rounds. The amount of terrans in the Ro32 doesn't mean so much if most of them are getting knocked out there. | ||
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