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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9984

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States5082 Posts
February 28 2018 06:08 GMT
#199661
On February 28 2018 14:10 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2018 10:41 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Another local level flip.


A significant number of people were totally willing to roll the dice because they don't understand the value of government. Now they've learned.


These special elections are all about turnout, not "learning." It's a good proxy for voter enthusiasm but there isn't a greater truth here.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-28 06:16:29
February 28 2018 06:14 GMT
#199662
On February 28 2018 15:08 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2018 14:10 Mohdoo wrote:
On February 28 2018 10:41 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Another local level flip.

https://twitter.com/mattmfm/status/968651286550728705

A significant number of people were totally willing to roll the dice because they don't understand the value of government. Now they've learned.


These special elections are all about turnout, not "learning." It's a good proxy for voter enthusiasm but there isn't a greater truth here.

Anti-establishment sentiment was through the roof. People thought "an outsider" would have a fresh, positively transformative impact.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States5082 Posts
February 28 2018 06:29 GMT
#199663
On February 28 2018 15:14 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2018 15:08 Introvert wrote:
On February 28 2018 14:10 Mohdoo wrote:
On February 28 2018 10:41 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Another local level flip.

https://twitter.com/mattmfm/status/968651286550728705

A significant number of people were totally willing to roll the dice because they don't understand the value of government. Now they've learned.


These special elections are all about turnout, not "learning." It's a good proxy for voter enthusiasm but there isn't a greater truth here.

Anti-establishment sentiment was through the roof. People thought "an outsider" would have a fresh, positively transformative impact.



Then why did a whole bunch of special elections go for the GOP in 2010? The over riding factor in these elections is getting your side to show up.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
February 28 2018 12:15 GMT
#199664
On February 28 2018 15:14 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2018 15:08 Introvert wrote:
On February 28 2018 14:10 Mohdoo wrote:
On February 28 2018 10:41 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Another local level flip.

https://twitter.com/mattmfm/status/968651286550728705

A significant number of people were totally willing to roll the dice because they don't understand the value of government. Now they've learned.


These special elections are all about turnout, not "learning." It's a good proxy for voter enthusiasm but there isn't a greater truth here.

Anti-establishment sentiment was through the roof. People thought "an outsider" would have a fresh, positively transformative impact.

can you demonstrate that people have actually turned against "outsiders"?
or that people are less anti-establishment now?
I'm disinclined to think most of them have learned; and america has a long trend of liking "outsiders" in its politics.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8222 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-28 13:01:14
February 28 2018 12:58 GMT
#199665
On February 28 2018 21:15 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2018 15:14 Mohdoo wrote:
On February 28 2018 15:08 Introvert wrote:
On February 28 2018 14:10 Mohdoo wrote:
On February 28 2018 10:41 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Another local level flip.

https://twitter.com/mattmfm/status/968651286550728705

A significant number of people were totally willing to roll the dice because they don't understand the value of government. Now they've learned.


These special elections are all about turnout, not "learning." It's a good proxy for voter enthusiasm but there isn't a greater truth here.

Anti-establishment sentiment was through the roof. People thought "an outsider" would have a fresh, positively transformative impact.

can you demonstrate that people have actually turned against "outsiders"?
or that people are less anti-establishment now?
I'm disinclined to think most of them have learned; and america has a long trend of liking "outsiders" in its politics.

Personally I have enough faith in people to believe that at least some of them start to realize it’s not a good idea to put people who don’t have a clue and / or any experience in charge.

That seems to be a pretty textbook of what anti establishment means (i think that paradoxically, Hillary’s huge experience, and extreme fluency in government affairs - she is essentially a government nerd, if anything - were a liability in her campaign), I think The Donald will vaccine people for a few years against that kind of reasoning.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-28 13:02:11
February 28 2018 13:02 GMT
#199666
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46686 Posts
February 28 2018 13:05 GMT
#199667
On February 28 2018 21:58 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2018 21:15 zlefin wrote:
On February 28 2018 15:14 Mohdoo wrote:
On February 28 2018 15:08 Introvert wrote:
On February 28 2018 14:10 Mohdoo wrote:
On February 28 2018 10:41 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Another local level flip.

https://twitter.com/mattmfm/status/968651286550728705

A significant number of people were totally willing to roll the dice because they don't understand the value of government. Now they've learned.


These special elections are all about turnout, not "learning." It's a good proxy for voter enthusiasm but there isn't a greater truth here.

Anti-establishment sentiment was through the roof. People thought "an outsider" would have a fresh, positively transformative impact.

can you demonstrate that people have actually turned against "outsiders"?
or that people are less anti-establishment now?
I'm disinclined to think most of them have learned; and america has a long trend of liking "outsiders" in its politics.

Personally I have enough faith in people to believe that at least some of them start to realize it’s not a good idea to put people who don’t have a clue and / or any experience in charge.

That seems to be a pretty textbook of what anti establishment means (i think that paradoxically, Hillary’s huge experience, and extreme fluency in government affairs - she is essentially a government nerd, if anything - were a liability in her campaign), I think The Donald will vaccine people for a few years against that kind of reasoning.


I agree with much of what you said, and I also want to point out that anti-establishment doesn't necessarily mean non--politician. Trump was both, but there are also politicians that hold ideologies that aren't mainstream to the conventional Democratic or Republican establishment- Bernie Sanders comes to mind as an easy example.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 28 2018 13:43 GMT
#199668
The US Department of Housing and Urban Development (Hud) has agreed to spend $165,000 on “lounge furniture” for its Washington headquarters, in addition to a $31,000 dining set purchased for housing secretary Ben Carson’s office.

The revelations on Tuesday of Carson’s expensive decor spending come as Donald Trump’s administration has proposed a cut of $6.8bn to Hud’s annual budget, or roughly 14% of its total spending, which would lead to reductions in programs aimed at poor and homeless Americans.

Department officials signed a contract last September with an Indiana-based seller for the furniture, according to a federal procurement record.

Raffi Williams, a spokesman for Hud, said in an email Tuesday evening that further records on the lounge furniture contract were not immediately available.

Earlier on Tuesday it emerged that the department had agreed to spend $31,000 on a dining table and accompanying items for Carson’s offices. Last week, Williams falsely denied to the Guardian that such a table had been bought.

Details of the furniture purchases were revealed after a senior career official at Hud alleged in a complaint to a federal watchdog that she was demoted after refusing to break a $5,000 spending limit for improvements to Carson’s office.

Helen Foster said she was told “$5,000 will not even buy a decent chair” after informing her bosses that this was the legal price limit for improvements to Carson’s suite of offices. Her complaint was filed to the office of special counsel (OSC).

Williams made false statements to the Guardian in emails last Friday while an article on Foster’s claims was being prepared.

“When it comes to the secretary’s office, the only money HUD spent was $3,200 to put up new blinds in his office and the deputy secretary’s office,” Williams said in an email, declaring this information to be “on background” without prior agreement.

Asked to confirm, as the Guardian had been told by a source, that “a new dining-room-style table was also purchased”, Williams replied: “Yeah, that’s inaccurate.” After news of Foster’s complaint was followed by US media, Williams confirmed on Tuesday that $31,000 was in fact spent on a new dining set for Carson’s offices.

A separate federal procurement record states that Hud agreed last December to pay $31,561 to Sebree And Associates, a Baltimore-based furniture seller. The contract is described as being for “secretary’s furniture”.

Williams, 29, is a former spokesman for the Republican National Committee, where he served as a deputy to Sean Spicer, Trump’s former White House press secretary. Williams is the son of the Fox News presenter Juan Williams.

When asked on Tuesday to explain his misleading statement, Williams falsely stated that he had been asked only about spending on improvements to Carson’s office from what he called “the decorating budget”.

“That’s what you were asking about, was the decorating budget, and no table was bought with the decorating budget,” said Williams. He then claimed he had actually been unaware a table had even been bought. “I walked over there and there was no new table there, so I did not know,” he said. “I did not find out until much later.”

Williams then said that he had another phone call coming in and terminated the interview.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18875 Posts
February 28 2018 13:50 GMT
#199669
The NFL finally kicked Papa Johns to the curb, can't say I'm sad to see those shitty commercial spots go.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 28 2018 13:53 GMT
#199670
Today is blessed. Those commercials were terrible.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2763 Posts
February 28 2018 14:42 GMT
#199671
As a filthy socialist liberal atheist, I'm feeling some hope for the first time in a long time. The "blue wave" seems different than having someone like Hillary shoved down our throats. This feels organic and real. I don't think the Republicans fully appreciate the precarious position they are in right now. January 2019 is going to be very interesting. I'm not a fan of counting my chickens before they hatch, but let's be honest, Dems are killing it and the numbers continue to move further in their direction.
Vrtra Vanquisher/Tiamat Trouncer/World Serpent Slayer
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18875 Posts
February 28 2018 14:43 GMT
#199672
As a filthy socialist liberal Christian, I'm inclined to agree
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 28 2018 14:45 GMT
#199673
Yeah well until the Neoliberal aspect is gone from the Democratic platforms don't expect much to change, but that is just me.

Also Pizza Hut is now the official sponsor of the NFL now.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2763 Posts
February 28 2018 14:47 GMT
#199674
On February 28 2018 23:45 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Yeah well until the Neoliberal aspect is gone from the Democratic platforms don't expect much to change, but that is just me.

Also Pizza Hut is now the official sponsor of the NFL now.


That's not a change that will come soon unfortunately. Capitalism is as ingrained into America as gun culture. Gonna have a hard time convincing people otherwise. I really hope I'm wrong.
Vrtra Vanquisher/Tiamat Trouncer/World Serpent Slayer
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 28 2018 14:53 GMT
#199675
Here we go again.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-28 14:55:35
February 28 2018 14:53 GMT
#199676
We can only hope that the Democratic Party gets back to its labor roots and stops trying appeal everyone. That isn’t how they held the house for 40 years.

Edit: Trump: Why is the AG using the process set up post Nixon to prevent the Justice department from being a tool for the president? Why isn’t he flagrantly abusing his office to protect me?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12619 Posts
February 28 2018 14:57 GMT
#199677
On February 28 2018 23:47 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2018 23:45 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Yeah well until the Neoliberal aspect is gone from the Democratic platforms don't expect much to change, but that is just me.

Also Pizza Hut is now the official sponsor of the NFL now.


That's not a change that will come soon unfortunately. Capitalism is as ingrained into America as gun culture. Gonna have a hard time convincing people otherwise. I really hope I'm wrong.


In the meantime you could always push for less neoliberalism in capitalism. It's true that a capitalist system is naturally inclined to slide in the direction of neoliberalism, but we could always fight that tendency. And it's easier to rally people against neoliberalism than it is against capitalism itself.
No will to live, no wish to die
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46686 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-28 15:01:03
February 28 2018 15:00 GMT
#199678
Edit: More relevant to the gun thread, so I moved it there.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 28 2018 15:00 GMT
#199679
Just before the midterms.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46686 Posts
February 28 2018 15:03 GMT
#199680
On February 28 2018 23:42 Ayaz2810 wrote:
As a filthy socialist liberal atheist, I'm feeling some hope for the first time in a long time. The "blue wave" seems different than having someone like Hillary shoved down our throats. This feels organic and real. I don't think the Republicans fully appreciate the precarious position they are in right now. January 2019 is going to be very interesting. I'm not a fan of counting my chickens before they hatch, but let's be honest, Dems are killing it and the numbers continue to move further in their direction.


I hope so! All depends upon how motivated people are to vote, and if they actually cast their vote. Actions speak louder than words.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
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