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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9982

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
February 27 2018 21:19 GMT
#199621
On February 28 2018 06:07 Logo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2018 05:51 Lmui wrote:
Well, the charges against Gates were pretty serious. ~70 million dollars of money laundering, tax fraud and bank fraud.

Manafort is already fucked beyond belief, so it's probably someone pretty damn high up the food chain if charges for that which are pretty much guaranteed convictions are being dropped.


Forgive my lack of knowledge, but how does this work for charges that involve illicitly getting a boatload of money? I assume there's some sort of penalty or repayment plan involved in dropping the charges?

They're basically settling it out of court, so it all depends on the terms of the agreement.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 27 2018 21:36 GMT
#199622
On February 28 2018 06:19 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2018 06:07 Logo wrote:
On February 28 2018 05:51 Lmui wrote:
Well, the charges against Gates were pretty serious. ~70 million dollars of money laundering, tax fraud and bank fraud.

Manafort is already fucked beyond belief, so it's probably someone pretty damn high up the food chain if charges for that which are pretty much guaranteed convictions are being dropped.


Forgive my lack of knowledge, but how does this work for charges that involve illicitly getting a boatload of money? I assume there's some sort of penalty or repayment plan involved in dropping the charges?

They're basically settling it out of court, so it all depends on the terms of the agreement.

If this was a plea deal, it would still be approved by a judge. I think dropping the charges might indicate they intend to go after Manafort for that boatload of money.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 27 2018 21:38 GMT
#199623


Glad leaders of the GOP are dropping the whole reasonable restrictions on abortion and just telling us what we always knew.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
February 27 2018 21:39 GMT
#199624
Kushner's security clearance downgraded. I wonder if he will still be responsible for peace and innovation.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21961 Posts
February 27 2018 21:52 GMT
#199625
On February 28 2018 06:39 Doodsmack wrote:
Kushner's security clearance downgraded. I wonder if he will still be responsible for peace and innovation.

Trump can still simply give him top level stuff.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
February 27 2018 21:56 GMT
#199626
Trump left the decision up to Kelly, saying he "hoped that he would make the right decision". So this is an interesting development.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21961 Posts
February 27 2018 22:07 GMT
#199627
On February 28 2018 06:56 ticklishmusic wrote:
Trump left the decision up to Kelly, saying he "hoped that he would make the right decision". So this is an interesting development.
There was no way Kelly was throwing himself under that bus and Trump knew it. Just trying to create a situation where he can shift blame if needed.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8191 Posts
February 27 2018 22:24 GMT
#199628
On February 28 2018 06:52 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2018 06:39 Doodsmack wrote:
Kushner's security clearance downgraded. I wonder if he will still be responsible for peace and innovation.

Trump can still simply give him top level stuff.


Even worse, Trump can simply reinstate his security clearance.. He hasn't done it so far, saying he'll let Kelly decide.
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-27 22:46:17
February 27 2018 22:31 GMT
#199629
edit: misread.

+ Show Spoiler [a grammatically confusing headline] +
https://twitter.com/cbsnews/status/968588555768475648

White House communications official who worked closely with Jared Kushner has confirmed to CBS News that he will be leaving in the next 2 months http://cbsn.ws/2HPwGHJ
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-27 22:38:23
February 27 2018 22:35 GMT
#199630
Who would've thought that the most unremarkable, boring, invisible being on earth with no prior experience or anything whatsoever wouldn't be the best choice for brokering world peace.

Hell, the buggers smeared behind a kids nightstand have more charisma, and most likely more impact on diplomacy than this personification of beige.

What even was his actual position?

edit: ah.. Well. Too bad. That tweet (and the headline) were easy to misunderstand.
On track to MA1950A.
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7918 Posts
February 27 2018 22:53 GMT
#199631
On February 28 2018 06:38 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/968597129659912198

Glad leaders of the GOP are dropping the whole reasonable restrictions on abortion and just telling us what we always knew.

I reaaaaaaaally hope Trump doesn't get empeached. He is a clown and a buffoon, but Pence is a truly horrifying man.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 27 2018 22:57 GMT
#199632
Lost in the news today is that Trump has not told the NSA Chief to attempt disrupt the Russia efforts at their origins.

The admiral in charge of both the nation's top electronic spying agency and the Pentagon's cyber security operations would seem a logical point man for countering Russia's digital intrusions in U.S. election campaigns.

But National Security Agency and U.S. Cyber Command chief Adm. Mike Rogers told the Senate Armed Services Committee Tuesday there's only so much he can do. That's because, according to Rogers, President Trump has not ordered him to go after the Russian attacks at their origin.

Jack Reed of Rhode Island, the committee's ranking Democrat, asked Rogers, "Have you been directed to do so, given this strategic threat that faces the United States and the significant consequences you recognize already?"

"No, I have not," Rogers replied.

But the spy chief pushed back on suggestions he should seek a presidential sign-off.

"I am not going to tell the president what he should or should not do," Rogers declared when Connecticut Democrat Richard Blumenthal pressed him on whether Trump should approve that authority. "I'm an operational commander, not a policymaker," he added. "That's the challenge for me as a military commander."

Rogers agreed with Blumenthal's estimation that Russian cyber operatives continue to attack the U.S. with impunity and that Washington's response has fallen short.

"It hasn't changed the calculus, is my sense," the spy chief told Blumenthal. "It certainly hasn't generated the change in behavior that I think we all know we need."

The only intelligence agency head to be held over from the Obama administration told Massachusetts Democrat Elizabeth Warren he believed Russian President Vladimir Putin has reached a conclusion: there's little price to pay for his actions and they can therefore continue.

"Bingo!" Warren replied.

Rogers wasn't finished. "Everything, both as the director of the NSA and what I see on the Cyber Command side, leads me to believe that if we don't change the dynamic here, this is going to continue and 2016 won't be viewed as something isolated," he added. "This is something that will be sustained over time."

In another part of an oversight hearing in which Rogers appeared as the sole witness and Republican members kept silent about the Trump administration's response to Russian meddling, Reed asked if Moscow was trying to obtain a strategic objective by influencing U.S. public opinion on elections.

"Yes, sir," Rogers replied. "I believe they're attempting to undermine our institutions."

Without going into details, he said he'd directed the Cyber Command's Cyber Mission Force "to begin some specific work" in response to Russia's interference in U.S. elections.

But Rogers also made clear that he had not been granted what he called "the day-to-day authority" to disrupt Russian hacking operations at their point of origin. That, he said, would have to come from Trump through Defense Secretary Jim Mattis.

"Nobody is denying him the authority," White House spokeswoman Sarah Sanders said when asked about Rogers' testimony. "We're going to continue looking at different ways to combat [Russian meddling], and I would imagine that that will be certainly a big part of it, but I can't speak to anything further on it right now."

Even if he were granted authority to act, Rogers questioned during the Senate hearing whether his agencies' capabilities would be the best or only response to those attacks.

"Be mindful of falling in the trap that just because someone comes at us in cyber that we have to default to immediately going back and doing the exact same thing," he warned. "I've always believed we need to step back and think a little bit more broadly about it and just don't default — it's because of that, you know, that I have not done that to date."

Rogers pointed to U.S. economic sanctions against Russia and Special Counsel Robert Mueller's indictment last week of 13 Russian officials (which Rogers acknowledged not having read) as measures that have put a price on Russia's trouble-making. "I think, in fairness, you can't say nothing's been done," he said. "But the point would be, it hasn't been enough."

This was likely Rogers' last appearance before the panel before his retirement this spring. President Trump has nominated Army Lt. Gen. Paul Nakasone, head of the U.S. Army Cyber Command, to replace Rogers. The post requires Senate confirmation.


www.npr.org

The White House's response is typical, where they claim to not be denying authorization.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 27 2018 23:11 GMT
#199633
Whoa.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 27 2018 23:16 GMT
#199634
I don't understand how this is shocking to anyone. Especially folks in the White House. This was the concern in January, 2017 when he got clearance and worked in the White House.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15725 Posts
February 27 2018 23:43 GMT
#199635
I don't understand. I thought republicans hated nepotism in politics?
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
February 27 2018 23:45 GMT
#199636
'Jared always was my least favourite son-in-law, I hardly knew him, he only did minor things like 100 billion dollar arms deals' Trump soon
Neosteel Enthusiast
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-27 23:47:10
February 27 2018 23:46 GMT
#199637
On February 28 2018 07:53 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2018 06:38 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/968597129659912198

Glad leaders of the GOP are dropping the whole reasonable restrictions on abortion and just telling us what we always knew.

I reaaaaaaaally hope Trump doesn't get empeached. He is a clown and a buffoon, but Pence is a truly horrifying man.

I disagree; it's still far better if trump gets removed from office. even with his incompetence, there's a vast amount of other kinds of corrosion and damage that occur from trump.

@mohdoo, why would it be surprising? they discarded all of morality beyond pretense some time ago.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
RenSC2
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States1071 Posts
February 27 2018 23:50 GMT
#199638
On February 28 2018 08:45 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
'Jared always was my least favourite son-in-law, I hardly knew him, he only did minor things like 100 billion dollar arms deals' Trump soon

Technically true that he is the least favorite son-in-law. He’s the only one. So for once Trump wouldn’t be lying.
Playing better than standard requires deviation. This divergence usually results in sub-standard play.
Womwomwom
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
5930 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-28 00:15:19
February 28 2018 00:12 GMT
#199639
On February 28 2018 08:43 Mohdoo wrote:
I don't understand. I thought republicans hated nepotism in politics?


People generally don't when its their side doing it. I don't blame them, its pretty natural to give your friends and family a leg up.

Ignoring the ethics problem for a second, the biggest problem is that Trump's administration is basically nuking the US Foreign Office and the Republicans don't really seem to care that its happening. Its one thing to let slip some corruption/nepotism but its an other thing to let it actually harm long term national interest and security.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4866 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-28 00:24:04
February 28 2018 00:23 GMT
#199640
Trump is unique in many ways. We've always known about his trust in his family so no one was surprised when these people came into the White House. It's just part of the Trump effect, of all the crap going on this matters relatively little.

Also the fact that his family is generally seen as more competent (and more progressive, at this point) than he is surely helps.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
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