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On February 18 2018 07:28 iamthedave wrote:That's the one, thanks. re: Bernie; I sincerely hope he doesn't get the nomination because he almost guarantees 4 more years of Trump. The hysteria that a politician with the vaguest of left wing policies causes in America would likely motivate tons of people who don't normally vote and give Trump a giant target to go after and weaponise. You need someone almost depressingly conventional to take Trump down, someone non-controversial, preferably a woman as that brings out all of Trump's worst qualities, who Trump is going to motivate people to vote against him because he's so goddamn awful.
I rarely come across a somewhat long post that I believe is 100% false^^
Provided the current circumstances don't change, Sanders vs Trump is almost guaranteed win for Sanders. His policies are known right now and he's by far the most popular politician in the country. On top of that, the vaguest of leftwing policies that you're talking about all enjoy massive popularity in the american population. You can tell because Trump lied during his campaign about implementing a few of those and that reinforced his popularity. When people try to get elected in the US, they are suddenly the most progressive they've been in their entire lives. That should tell you something.
Will Trump call him a socialist and gain a few votes from doing that? Well duh, yeah of course he will. But that's going to happen no matter who you put against him, he's going to attack that person, they can be deep state and swampy just as much as they can be socialist. Luckily we have a guy who has a massive head start so that he can easily withstand those attacks.
You absolutely do not need someone depressingly conventional to take Trump down. That strategy has already been tried and it failed. It was so much not the right strategy that Trump is actually president right now, and as much as people would like to forget it, it wasn't very easy to lose to him, it took some effort.
Even if we discount experience and we look purely strategically putting someone conventional is the wrong strategy. It doesn't capitalize on the energy of the base, it doesn't give people a direction and hope. It's not even coherent in terms of state strategy cause Bernie did a little better than Hillary in the states that you're going to need to win back.
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The big problem with Sanders is the same as everyone in the run this time had. They are too old. I think that generally speaking, it is a good idea if the leader of the country is not of retirement age. People in their 70s and 80s are definitively not at their peak performance, and in any other job they would have retired 10 years ago instead of just starting their job.
Is there really no one who is 50 or so that could be president?
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nebuchad, your counterpoints don't fully hold; one of the reasons sanders has such popularity is that he hasn't been the subject of attacks much, because he hasn't been in the lead and avoided the party system. it's simply unclear how thinsg would change if the attack ads found in a national general campaign actually happened.
there's a lot of potential problems which could hurt sanders, and most voters are terribly uninformed and aren't aware of those yet.
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Bernie is old, but that's also been part of his appeal. A 40 year old version of him wouldn't have nearly the same appeal. He's got some crazy ideas by contemporary American standards, but he's been around and walked the walk. There's no doubting he believes the things he believes. He's not flip flopping to suit current polling data.
As far as going against Trump 1 on 1 one of the biggest grievances against Hillary (and Democrats in general) is they didn't tell people how their policies would help them. The general election was just Trump and Hillary insulting each other, policy wasn't discussed at all. Bernie would absolutely trash Trump in that regard. If Bernie refused to get in the mud with Trump and kept things purely about policy and explaining why things are fucked and how his policies would make their lives better it would be a murder on stage. Trump is very clearly an unintelligent human, just imagine him having to talk policy and flailing about as he drowns.
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On February 18 2018 08:54 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Bernie is old, but that's also been part of his appeal. A 40 year old version of him wouldn't have nearly the same appeal. He's got some crazy ideas by contemporary American standards, but he's been around and walked the walk. There's no doubting he believes the things he believes. He's not flip flopping to suit current polling data.
As far as going against Trump 1 on 1 one of the biggest grievances against Hillary (and Democrats in general) is they didn't tell people how their policies would help them. The general election was just Trump and Hillary insulting each other, policy wasn't discussed at all. Bernie would absolutely trash Trump in that regard. If Bernie refused to get in the mud with Trump and kept things purely about policy and explaining why things are fucked and how his policies would make their lives better it would be a murder on stage. Trump is very clearly an unintelligent human, just imagine him having to talk policy and flailing about as he drowns.
on policy hillary is/was way better than bernie; the problem is the media simply ignored it whenever hillary tried to talk about policy. hillary had extensive detailed plans, which included info on how each group would be helped by them; they were simply ignored and got no/little coverage.
bernie has shown himself to be somewhat ignorant on policy when actually pressed on details.
now hillary could've tried to use her ad buy money to talk about policies, which might've helped, hard to say, but that doesn' tchange the extent to which the voters and the media simply ignored policy.
I'd disagree about bernie wakling the walk, so much as talking the talk (which is still very valuable for winning an election)
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On February 18 2018 09:03 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2018 08:54 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Bernie is old, but that's also been part of his appeal. A 40 year old version of him wouldn't have nearly the same appeal. He's got some crazy ideas by contemporary American standards, but he's been around and walked the walk. There's no doubting he believes the things he believes. He's not flip flopping to suit current polling data.
As far as going against Trump 1 on 1 one of the biggest grievances against Hillary (and Democrats in general) is they didn't tell people how their policies would help them. The general election was just Trump and Hillary insulting each other, policy wasn't discussed at all. Bernie would absolutely trash Trump in that regard. If Bernie refused to get in the mud with Trump and kept things purely about policy and explaining why things are fucked and how his policies would make their lives better it would be a murder on stage. Trump is very clearly an unintelligent human, just imagine him having to talk policy and flailing about as he drowns. on policy hillary is/was way better than bernie; the problem is the media simply ignored it whenever hillary tried to talk about policy. hillary had extensive detailed plans, which included info on how each group would be helped by them; they were simply ignored and got no/little coverage. bernie has shown himself to be somewhat ignorant on policy when actually pressed on details. I'd disagree about bernie wakling the walk, so much as talking the talk.
On policy people actually want, she's not better, and regardless she was too dumb to keep things about policy. She wanted to make it a wrestling match and turns out that was a incredibly stupid thing to do. Bernie keeps things purely about policy and why it's good and it matters to people and Trump has a less than 0% chance of winning. She kept trying to make things "LOL, see how dumb this fucking guy is? What a dummy!" the media didn't make her do that, she chose to do that. Everyone knows he sucks, that battle has already been settled, so now give me actual reasons your ideas are better than his. Stop making it a circus and give me policy, she refused to do so.
The DNC primaries are almost entirely policy based from all parties involved....and then when the general hits its nowhere to be found. Lol Bernie has a voting history going back decades that aligns with the stuff he's still preaching, if that's not walking the walk in your book then nothing is. He didn't change his ideas because they're politically expedient like most others, that would be talking the talk.
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On February 18 2018 09:14 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2018 09:03 zlefin wrote:On February 18 2018 08:54 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Bernie is old, but that's also been part of his appeal. A 40 year old version of him wouldn't have nearly the same appeal. He's got some crazy ideas by contemporary American standards, but he's been around and walked the walk. There's no doubting he believes the things he believes. He's not flip flopping to suit current polling data.
As far as going against Trump 1 on 1 one of the biggest grievances against Hillary (and Democrats in general) is they didn't tell people how their policies would help them. The general election was just Trump and Hillary insulting each other, policy wasn't discussed at all. Bernie would absolutely trash Trump in that regard. If Bernie refused to get in the mud with Trump and kept things purely about policy and explaining why things are fucked and how his policies would make their lives better it would be a murder on stage. Trump is very clearly an unintelligent human, just imagine him having to talk policy and flailing about as he drowns. on policy hillary is/was way better than bernie; the problem is the media simply ignored it whenever hillary tried to talk about policy. hillary had extensive detailed plans, which included info on how each group would be helped by them; they were simply ignored and got no/little coverage. bernie has shown himself to be somewhat ignorant on policy when actually pressed on details. I'd disagree about bernie wakling the walk, so much as talking the talk. On policy people actually want, she's not better, and regardless she was too dumb to keep things about policy. She wanted to make it a wrestling match and turns out that was a incredibly stupid thing to do. Bernie keeps things purely about policy and why it's good and it matters to people and Trump has a less than 0% chance of winning. She kept trying to make things "LOL, see how dumb this fucking guy is? What a dummy!" the media didn't make her do that, she chose to do that. Everyone knows he sucks, that battle has already been settled, so now give me actual reasons your ideas are better than his. Stop making it a circus and give me policy, she refused to do so. The DNC primaries are almost entirely policy based from all parties involved....and then when the general hits its nowhere to be found. Lol Bernie has a voting history going back decades that aligns with the stuff he's still preaching, if that's not walking the walk in your book then nothing is. He didn't change his ideas because they're politically expedient like most others, that would be talking the talk.
in terms of actual functional policy that actually does things as opposed to talking wihtout any real plan she's way better.
she didn' twnat it to be a wrestling match; she tried to make it about policy and it simply didn' twork. policy was simply ignored. so since policy was being completely ignored, she tried to go the non-policy route, which didn' twork out well; but again it's only because policy was being ignored repeatedly whenever she tried to talk about it.
you're simply a liar, you're straight up lying about what actually happened, or just profoundly ignorant on the topic. so I need to disengage from someone who's acting terribly as you are. go read the report in my sig if you want to learn something.
oh and I call it talking the talk because he talks a good game but he doesn't have actual policies in depth to follow up on and implement to actually achieve his objectives. like actual detailed policy papers.
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Can Hillary do this?
+ Show Spoiler +
Or go up stairs without help/handrails?
+ Show Spoiler +
If not, she's less healthy (at least mobility wise). He also hosted far more events (endurance/energy) and could stand more than hour for them. He also didn't pass out and get dragged into a van when he got sick (durability). But for like the 30th time, no I don't think she was on deaths door having crazy laughing seizures.
@Neb I don't know about a first pick per say, but I like what Ajamu is talking about/perspective. I like Nina Turner. If I had to pick a "real Democrat" maybe Barbara Lee if she could be at least a little more aware of the links between our capitalism and the wars/interventions she opposes with integrity. GT is acting as a prime example of that right now.
On the "Most of the ads were after the election" That should have been pretty obvious when the propaganda about thousands attending a rally organized by Russians on facebook was paraded as an obvious and biggest single example of their (the ads) significant influence turned out to actually not be true and have happened AFTER the election (and happened to be ANTI-Trump).
On February 18 2018 09:24 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2018 09:14 OuchyDathurts wrote:On February 18 2018 09:03 zlefin wrote:On February 18 2018 08:54 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Bernie is old, but that's also been part of his appeal. A 40 year old version of him wouldn't have nearly the same appeal. He's got some crazy ideas by contemporary American standards, but he's been around and walked the walk. There's no doubting he believes the things he believes. He's not flip flopping to suit current polling data.
As far as going against Trump 1 on 1 one of the biggest grievances against Hillary (and Democrats in general) is they didn't tell people how their policies would help them. The general election was just Trump and Hillary insulting each other, policy wasn't discussed at all. Bernie would absolutely trash Trump in that regard. If Bernie refused to get in the mud with Trump and kept things purely about policy and explaining why things are fucked and how his policies would make their lives better it would be a murder on stage. Trump is very clearly an unintelligent human, just imagine him having to talk policy and flailing about as he drowns. on policy hillary is/was way better than bernie; the problem is the media simply ignored it whenever hillary tried to talk about policy. hillary had extensive detailed plans, which included info on how each group would be helped by them; they were simply ignored and got no/little coverage. bernie has shown himself to be somewhat ignorant on policy when actually pressed on details. I'd disagree about bernie wakling the walk, so much as talking the talk. On policy people actually want, she's not better, and regardless she was too dumb to keep things about policy. She wanted to make it a wrestling match and turns out that was a incredibly stupid thing to do. Bernie keeps things purely about policy and why it's good and it matters to people and Trump has a less than 0% chance of winning. She kept trying to make things "LOL, see how dumb this fucking guy is? What a dummy!" the media didn't make her do that, she chose to do that. Everyone knows he sucks, that battle has already been settled, so now give me actual reasons your ideas are better than his. Stop making it a circus and give me policy, she refused to do so. The DNC primaries are almost entirely policy based from all parties involved....and then when the general hits its nowhere to be found. Lol Bernie has a voting history going back decades that aligns with the stuff he's still preaching, if that's not walking the walk in your book then nothing is. He didn't change his ideas because they're politically expedient like most others, that would be talking the talk. in terms of actual functional policy that actually does things as opposed to talking wihtout any real plan she's way better. she didn' twnat it to be a wrestling match; she tried to make it about policy and it simply didn' twork. policy was simply ignored. so since policy was being completely ignored, she tried to go the non-policy route, which didn' twork out well; but again it's only because policy was being ignored repeatedly whenever she tried to talk about it. you're simply a liar, you're straight up lying about what actually happened, or just profoundly ignorant on the topic. so I need to disengage from someone who's acting terribly as you are. go read the report in my sig if you want to learn something. oh and I call it talking the talk because he talks a good game but he doesn't have actual policies in depth to follow up on and implement to actually achieve his objectives. like actual detailed policy papers.
What a world it must be...
Study: Hillary Clinton’s TV ads were almost entirely policy-free
Source
Clever of her to avoid advertising her policy based campaign.
EDIT: BTW on the DNC primary, they argued in court what I said from the start which is that it's all theatrical and the "voting" is for show and they've just been lucky for it to line up with what they wanted to do, but should they choose, they can abandon the illusion whenever they want and ignore the votes and select their nominee however they want.
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On February 18 2018 03:35 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2018 03:25 FallDownMarigold wrote:On February 17 2018 12:59 Plansix wrote:
I truly believe Trump is so out of touch with reality that he didn’t even know that accepting assistance from Russia would come back on him. Or he didn’t believe that it would be considered highly illegal. The Presidency is just something that black asshole that made fun of him earn, so it couldn’t be that important. So why not take a little assistance Russia or some other country? This is how I think Mueller will end his investigation. He's not going to conclude that Trump was some 1337 spy coordinating with Putin from the beginning. He's going to find that Trump was a useful unwitting idiot. Whether or not he'll find that what started off unwitting became witting or even a cover-up/obstruction is less clear to me but it seems likely too. It most likely started out as a useful unwitting idiot but if Trump accepted aid (like at the Trump tower meeting) then it stops being an unwitting idiot and goes right into being a (potential) crime.
Exactly and that's what I'm keeping my eye on. It's still not clear that Trump Sr. was involved in this (we know he's involved in what could potentially be determined to be a cover up, but not with the meeting itself). It seems really likely, but the public doesn't have that yet. It's gonna get juicy in the next 12 months.
On February 18 2018 04:09 LegalLord wrote:
Sean Spicer?
Do any of you guys miss Spicer yet? I don't *really* miss him but his antics provided some decent comedic relief, like when he ducked behind some bushes to avoid reporters. Scaramucci too. Shame he only lasted a mooch (10 days).
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On February 18 2018 08:20 Simberto wrote:
The big problem with Sanders is the same as everyone in the run this time had. They are too old. I think that generally speaking, it is a good idea if the leader of the country is not of retirement age. People in their 70s and 80s are definitively not at their peak performance, and in any other job they would have retired 10 years ago instead of just starting their job.
Is there really no one who is 50 or so that could be president?
If you wanted someone younger, you could have voted for Ted Cruz!
But really, the ambition level of someone who even wants to be president at 70 is something that I will never understand. Frankly, when I've lived to the age of 70, I've earned the right to be a lazy shit for the rest of my days. Why someone who has the means to live comfortably for the rest of their life would want to take up a highly stressful job like being the president is completely beyond me.
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On February 18 2018 09:14 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2018 09:03 zlefin wrote:On February 18 2018 08:54 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Bernie is old, but that's also been part of his appeal. A 40 year old version of him wouldn't have nearly the same appeal. He's got some crazy ideas by contemporary American standards, but he's been around and walked the walk. There's no doubting he believes the things he believes. He's not flip flopping to suit current polling data.
As far as going against Trump 1 on 1 one of the biggest grievances against Hillary (and Democrats in general) is they didn't tell people how their policies would help them. The general election was just Trump and Hillary insulting each other, policy wasn't discussed at all. Bernie would absolutely trash Trump in that regard. If Bernie refused to get in the mud with Trump and kept things purely about policy and explaining why things are fucked and how his policies would make their lives better it would be a murder on stage. Trump is very clearly an unintelligent human, just imagine him having to talk policy and flailing about as he drowns. on policy hillary is/was way better than bernie; the problem is the media simply ignored it whenever hillary tried to talk about policy. hillary had extensive detailed plans, which included info on how each group would be helped by them; they were simply ignored and got no/little coverage. bernie has shown himself to be somewhat ignorant on policy when actually pressed on details. I'd disagree about bernie wakling the walk, so much as talking the talk. On policy people actually want, she's not better, and regardless she was too dumb to keep things about policy. She wanted to make it a wrestling match and turns out that was a incredibly stupid thing to do. Bernie keeps things purely about policy and why it's good and it matters to people and Trump has a less than 0% chance of winning. She kept trying to make things "LOL, see how dumb this fucking guy is? What a dummy!" the media didn't make her do that, she chose to do that. Everyone knows he sucks, that battle has already been settled, so now give me actual reasons your ideas are better than his. Stop making it a circus and give me policy, she refused to do so. The DNC primaries are almost entirely policy based from all parties involved....and then when the general hits its nowhere to be found. Lol Bernie has a voting history going back decades that aligns with the stuff he's still preaching, if that's not walking the walk in your book then nothing is. He didn't change his ideas because they're politically expedient like most others, that would be talking the talk.
On policy people want promised to them that would magically make everything better and make everyone crap out rainbows and $1,000,000 bills, yes she wasn't better. On policy that could possibly happen, she was way better. The issue is people like trump and bernie promised impossible things that were too good to be true, and people wanted those. The people didn't care about what was possible or even realistic, and that's why we have the dumpsterfire we do now, and that's why we have bernie bros still running around defending his silly fairlytale policies.
@GH Yes she can, can bernie stand for a 6 hour republican witch trial examination? And can you stop with the silly baseless attacks just because you fell for russian paid ads and memes?
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On February 18 2018 10:13 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2018 09:14 OuchyDathurts wrote:On February 18 2018 09:03 zlefin wrote:On February 18 2018 08:54 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Bernie is old, but that's also been part of his appeal. A 40 year old version of him wouldn't have nearly the same appeal. He's got some crazy ideas by contemporary American standards, but he's been around and walked the walk. There's no doubting he believes the things he believes. He's not flip flopping to suit current polling data.
As far as going against Trump 1 on 1 one of the biggest grievances against Hillary (and Democrats in general) is they didn't tell people how their policies would help them. The general election was just Trump and Hillary insulting each other, policy wasn't discussed at all. Bernie would absolutely trash Trump in that regard. If Bernie refused to get in the mud with Trump and kept things purely about policy and explaining why things are fucked and how his policies would make their lives better it would be a murder on stage. Trump is very clearly an unintelligent human, just imagine him having to talk policy and flailing about as he drowns. on policy hillary is/was way better than bernie; the problem is the media simply ignored it whenever hillary tried to talk about policy. hillary had extensive detailed plans, which included info on how each group would be helped by them; they were simply ignored and got no/little coverage. bernie has shown himself to be somewhat ignorant on policy when actually pressed on details. I'd disagree about bernie wakling the walk, so much as talking the talk. On policy people actually want, she's not better, and regardless she was too dumb to keep things about policy. She wanted to make it a wrestling match and turns out that was a incredibly stupid thing to do. Bernie keeps things purely about policy and why it's good and it matters to people and Trump has a less than 0% chance of winning. She kept trying to make things "LOL, see how dumb this fucking guy is? What a dummy!" the media didn't make her do that, she chose to do that. Everyone knows he sucks, that battle has already been settled, so now give me actual reasons your ideas are better than his. Stop making it a circus and give me policy, she refused to do so. The DNC primaries are almost entirely policy based from all parties involved....and then when the general hits its nowhere to be found. Lol Bernie has a voting history going back decades that aligns with the stuff he's still preaching, if that's not walking the walk in your book then nothing is. He didn't change his ideas because they're politically expedient like most others, that would be talking the talk. On policy people want promised to them that would magically make everything better and make everyone crap out rainbows and $1,000,000 bills, yes she wasn't better. On policy that could possibly happen, she was way better. The issue is people like trump and bernie promised impossible things that were too good to be true, and people wanted those. The people didn't care about what was possible or even realistic, and that's why we have the dumpsterfire we do now, and that's why we have bernie bros still running around defending his silly fairlytale policies. @GH Yes she can, can bernie stand for a 6 hour republican witch trial examination? And can you stop with the silly baseless attacks just because you fell for russian paid ads and memes?
Do you have any evidence whatsoever from the last few years that she can do those things? Also she sat for that (but it is notable).
It's idiotic to say I fell for Russian paid ads and memes when I've asked for any semblance of evidence of such a dozen times without any of my accusers ever providing any evidence, meanwhile I laid out a clear example of you guys (at least one of you without question) falling for US propaganda and not one of you has the guts to engage with that.
The "you're just a russian stooge" line is basically a glowing neon sign that one is a full throated endorser of US propaganda
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On February 18 2018 10:23 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2018 10:13 hunts wrote:On February 18 2018 09:14 OuchyDathurts wrote:On February 18 2018 09:03 zlefin wrote:On February 18 2018 08:54 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Bernie is old, but that's also been part of his appeal. A 40 year old version of him wouldn't have nearly the same appeal. He's got some crazy ideas by contemporary American standards, but he's been around and walked the walk. There's no doubting he believes the things he believes. He's not flip flopping to suit current polling data.
As far as going against Trump 1 on 1 one of the biggest grievances against Hillary (and Democrats in general) is they didn't tell people how their policies would help them. The general election was just Trump and Hillary insulting each other, policy wasn't discussed at all. Bernie would absolutely trash Trump in that regard. If Bernie refused to get in the mud with Trump and kept things purely about policy and explaining why things are fucked and how his policies would make their lives better it would be a murder on stage. Trump is very clearly an unintelligent human, just imagine him having to talk policy and flailing about as he drowns. on policy hillary is/was way better than bernie; the problem is the media simply ignored it whenever hillary tried to talk about policy. hillary had extensive detailed plans, which included info on how each group would be helped by them; they were simply ignored and got no/little coverage. bernie has shown himself to be somewhat ignorant on policy when actually pressed on details. I'd disagree about bernie wakling the walk, so much as talking the talk. On policy people actually want, she's not better, and regardless she was too dumb to keep things about policy. She wanted to make it a wrestling match and turns out that was a incredibly stupid thing to do. Bernie keeps things purely about policy and why it's good and it matters to people and Trump has a less than 0% chance of winning. She kept trying to make things "LOL, see how dumb this fucking guy is? What a dummy!" the media didn't make her do that, she chose to do that. Everyone knows he sucks, that battle has already been settled, so now give me actual reasons your ideas are better than his. Stop making it a circus and give me policy, she refused to do so. The DNC primaries are almost entirely policy based from all parties involved....and then when the general hits its nowhere to be found. Lol Bernie has a voting history going back decades that aligns with the stuff he's still preaching, if that's not walking the walk in your book then nothing is. He didn't change his ideas because they're politically expedient like most others, that would be talking the talk. On policy people want promised to them that would magically make everything better and make everyone crap out rainbows and $1,000,000 bills, yes she wasn't better. On policy that could possibly happen, she was way better. The issue is people like trump and bernie promised impossible things that were too good to be true, and people wanted those. The people didn't care about what was possible or even realistic, and that's why we have the dumpsterfire we do now, and that's why we have bernie bros still running around defending his silly fairlytale policies. @GH Yes she can, can bernie stand for a 6 hour republican witch trial examination? And can you stop with the silly baseless attacks just because you fell for russian paid ads and memes? Do you have any evidence whatsoever from the last few years that she can do those things? Also she sat for that (but it is notable). It's idiotic to say I fell for Russian paid ads and memes when I've asked for any semblance of evidence of such a dozen times without any of my accusers ever providing any evidence, meanwhile I laid out a clear example of you guys falling for US propaganda and not one of you has the guts to engage with that. The "you're just a russian stooge" line is basically a glowing neon sign that one is a full throated endorser of US propaganda
You were linked several articles that stated russia created/paid for pro bernie ads. I will do this again, and you will continue ignoring it and living in your own world, but at least next time you do this I will call you a liar, as I am now.
U.S. Special Counsel Robert Mueller unveiled the details of a widespread and coordinated campaign by Russians to influence the U.S. presidential election in favor of Donald Trump, delivering on his initial mandate by the Justice Department.
In an indictment announced Friday in Washington, Mueller describes a years-long, multimillion-dollar conspiracy by hundreds of Russians aimed at criticizing Hillary Clinton and supporting Senator Bernie Sanders and Trump. Mueller charged 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities and accused them of defrauding the U.S. government by interfering with the political process.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-16/u-s-charges-13-russians-3-companies-for-hacking-election
A 37-page indictment resulting from special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation shows that Russian nationals and businesses also worked to boost the campaigns of Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and Green party nominee Jill Stein in an effort to damage Democrat Hillary Clinton.
The Russians “engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump,” according to the indictment, which was issued Friday.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/17/indictment-russians-also-tried-help-bernie-sanders-jill-stein-presidential-campaigns/348051002/
Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein was the beneficiary of at least one of the Russian-bought political ads on Facebook that federal government officials suspect were intended to influence the 2016 election.
Other advertisements paid for by shadowy Russian buyers criticized Hillary Clinton and promoted Donald Trump. Some backed Bernie Sanders and his platform even after his presidential campaign had ended, according to a person with knowledge of the ads.
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/26/facebook-russia-trump-sanders-stein-243172
Funny enough I remember you liking and possibly backing jill stein over Hillary after bernie lost?
According to the indictment, the defendants and their co-conspirators created hundreds of social media accounts impersonating real and fictitious Americans — and they paid for ads promoting their posts.
The Russians in the indictment acted as an organization, and employees who ran the accounts were directed to create “political intensity through supporting radical groups” and to criticize Hillary Clinton, but not Donald J. Trump or Bernie Sanders.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/02/16/us/politics/russia-propaganda-election-2016.html
Do you need more?
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Theres a list of good democratic candidates and really bad. Democratic candidates. Amy klobushar wins the states trump flipped in the election and rides the blue firewall for 8 years. Shes an extremely well liked white Midwestern woman in a state with a lot of guns and low gun violence as well as a robust immigrant situation. She would crush it in Wisconsin michigan Illinois Pennsylvania and ohio. Shes young and will have two good Senate terms under her and no one has anything bad to say about her and all her political flanks are covered. Shes the candidate that can bring the democratic party togeather and heal the nation from the bitter years we've had.
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On February 18 2018 10:31 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2018 10:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 18 2018 10:13 hunts wrote:On February 18 2018 09:14 OuchyDathurts wrote:On February 18 2018 09:03 zlefin wrote:On February 18 2018 08:54 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Bernie is old, but that's also been part of his appeal. A 40 year old version of him wouldn't have nearly the same appeal. He's got some crazy ideas by contemporary American standards, but he's been around and walked the walk. There's no doubting he believes the things he believes. He's not flip flopping to suit current polling data.
As far as going against Trump 1 on 1 one of the biggest grievances against Hillary (and Democrats in general) is they didn't tell people how their policies would help them. The general election was just Trump and Hillary insulting each other, policy wasn't discussed at all. Bernie would absolutely trash Trump in that regard. If Bernie refused to get in the mud with Trump and kept things purely about policy and explaining why things are fucked and how his policies would make their lives better it would be a murder on stage. Trump is very clearly an unintelligent human, just imagine him having to talk policy and flailing about as he drowns. on policy hillary is/was way better than bernie; the problem is the media simply ignored it whenever hillary tried to talk about policy. hillary had extensive detailed plans, which included info on how each group would be helped by them; they were simply ignored and got no/little coverage. bernie has shown himself to be somewhat ignorant on policy when actually pressed on details. I'd disagree about bernie wakling the walk, so much as talking the talk. On policy people actually want, she's not better, and regardless she was too dumb to keep things about policy. She wanted to make it a wrestling match and turns out that was a incredibly stupid thing to do. Bernie keeps things purely about policy and why it's good and it matters to people and Trump has a less than 0% chance of winning. She kept trying to make things "LOL, see how dumb this fucking guy is? What a dummy!" the media didn't make her do that, she chose to do that. Everyone knows he sucks, that battle has already been settled, so now give me actual reasons your ideas are better than his. Stop making it a circus and give me policy, she refused to do so. The DNC primaries are almost entirely policy based from all parties involved....and then when the general hits its nowhere to be found. Lol Bernie has a voting history going back decades that aligns with the stuff he's still preaching, if that's not walking the walk in your book then nothing is. He didn't change his ideas because they're politically expedient like most others, that would be talking the talk. On policy people want promised to them that would magically make everything better and make everyone crap out rainbows and $1,000,000 bills, yes she wasn't better. On policy that could possibly happen, she was way better. The issue is people like trump and bernie promised impossible things that were too good to be true, and people wanted those. The people didn't care about what was possible or even realistic, and that's why we have the dumpsterfire we do now, and that's why we have bernie bros still running around defending his silly fairlytale policies. @GH Yes she can, can bernie stand for a 6 hour republican witch trial examination? And can you stop with the silly baseless attacks just because you fell for russian paid ads and memes? Do you have any evidence whatsoever from the last few years that she can do those things? Also she sat for that (but it is notable). It's idiotic to say I fell for Russian paid ads and memes when I've asked for any semblance of evidence of such a dozen times without any of my accusers ever providing any evidence, meanwhile I laid out a clear example of you guys falling for US propaganda and not one of you has the guts to engage with that. The "you're just a russian stooge" line is basically a glowing neon sign that one is a full throated endorser of US propaganda You were linked several articles that stated russia created/paid for pro bernie ads. I will do this again, and you will continue ignoring it and living in your own world, but at least next time you do this I will call you a liar, as I am now. Show nested quote +U.S. Special Counsel Robert Mueller unveiled the details of a widespread and coordinated campaign by Russians to influence the U.S. presidential election in favor of Donald Trump, delivering on his initial mandate by the Justice Department.
In an indictment announced Friday in Washington, Mueller describes a years-long, multimillion-dollar conspiracy by hundreds of Russians aimed at criticizing Hillary Clinton and supporting Senator Bernie Sanders and Trump. Mueller charged 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities and accused them of defrauding the U.S. government by interfering with the political process. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-16/u-s-charges-13-russians-3-companies-for-hacking-election+ Show Spoiler +A 37-page indictment resulting from special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation shows that Russian nationals and businesses also worked to boost the campaigns of Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and Green party nominee Jill Stein in an effort to damage Democrat Hillary Clinton.
The Russians “engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump,” according to the indictment, which was issued Friday. Show nested quote +Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein was the beneficiary of at least one of the Russian-bought political ads on Facebook that federal government officials suspect were intended to influence the 2016 election.
Other advertisements paid for by shadowy Russian buyers criticized Hillary Clinton and promoted Donald Trump. Some backed Bernie Sanders and his platform even after his presidential campaign had ended, according to a person with knowledge of the ads. https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/26/facebook-russia-trump-sanders-stein-243172Funny enough I remember you liking and possibly backing jill stein over Hillary after bernie lost? Show nested quote +According to the indictment, the defendants and their co-conspirators created hundreds of social media accounts impersonating real and fictitious Americans — and they paid for ads promoting their posts.
The Russians in the indictment acted as an organization, and employees who ran the accounts were directed to create “political intensity through supporting radical groups” and to criticize Hillary Clinton, but not Donald J. Trump or Bernie Sanders. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/02/16/us/politics/russia-propaganda-election-2016.htmlDo you need more?
First I presume nothing on the Hillary part is your realization that I was right?
If Russians say 2+2 =4 it doesn't mean math was tricked by the Russians.
What you need to do is show some evidence that I was manipulated by it.
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On February 18 2018 10:33 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2018 10:31 hunts wrote:On February 18 2018 10:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 18 2018 10:13 hunts wrote:On February 18 2018 09:14 OuchyDathurts wrote:On February 18 2018 09:03 zlefin wrote:On February 18 2018 08:54 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Bernie is old, but that's also been part of his appeal. A 40 year old version of him wouldn't have nearly the same appeal. He's got some crazy ideas by contemporary American standards, but he's been around and walked the walk. There's no doubting he believes the things he believes. He's not flip flopping to suit current polling data.
As far as going against Trump 1 on 1 one of the biggest grievances against Hillary (and Democrats in general) is they didn't tell people how their policies would help them. The general election was just Trump and Hillary insulting each other, policy wasn't discussed at all. Bernie would absolutely trash Trump in that regard. If Bernie refused to get in the mud with Trump and kept things purely about policy and explaining why things are fucked and how his policies would make their lives better it would be a murder on stage. Trump is very clearly an unintelligent human, just imagine him having to talk policy and flailing about as he drowns. on policy hillary is/was way better than bernie; the problem is the media simply ignored it whenever hillary tried to talk about policy. hillary had extensive detailed plans, which included info on how each group would be helped by them; they were simply ignored and got no/little coverage. bernie has shown himself to be somewhat ignorant on policy when actually pressed on details. I'd disagree about bernie wakling the walk, so much as talking the talk. On policy people actually want, she's not better, and regardless she was too dumb to keep things about policy. She wanted to make it a wrestling match and turns out that was a incredibly stupid thing to do. Bernie keeps things purely about policy and why it's good and it matters to people and Trump has a less than 0% chance of winning. She kept trying to make things "LOL, see how dumb this fucking guy is? What a dummy!" the media didn't make her do that, she chose to do that. Everyone knows he sucks, that battle has already been settled, so now give me actual reasons your ideas are better than his. Stop making it a circus and give me policy, she refused to do so. The DNC primaries are almost entirely policy based from all parties involved....and then when the general hits its nowhere to be found. Lol Bernie has a voting history going back decades that aligns with the stuff he's still preaching, if that's not walking the walk in your book then nothing is. He didn't change his ideas because they're politically expedient like most others, that would be talking the talk. On policy people want promised to them that would magically make everything better and make everyone crap out rainbows and $1,000,000 bills, yes she wasn't better. On policy that could possibly happen, she was way better. The issue is people like trump and bernie promised impossible things that were too good to be true, and people wanted those. The people didn't care about what was possible or even realistic, and that's why we have the dumpsterfire we do now, and that's why we have bernie bros still running around defending his silly fairlytale policies. @GH Yes she can, can bernie stand for a 6 hour republican witch trial examination? And can you stop with the silly baseless attacks just because you fell for russian paid ads and memes? Do you have any evidence whatsoever from the last few years that she can do those things? Also she sat for that (but it is notable). It's idiotic to say I fell for Russian paid ads and memes when I've asked for any semblance of evidence of such a dozen times without any of my accusers ever providing any evidence, meanwhile I laid out a clear example of you guys falling for US propaganda and not one of you has the guts to engage with that. The "you're just a russian stooge" line is basically a glowing neon sign that one is a full throated endorser of US propaganda You were linked several articles that stated russia created/paid for pro bernie ads. I will do this again, and you will continue ignoring it and living in your own world, but at least next time you do this I will call you a liar, as I am now. U.S. Special Counsel Robert Mueller unveiled the details of a widespread and coordinated campaign by Russians to influence the U.S. presidential election in favor of Donald Trump, delivering on his initial mandate by the Justice Department.
In an indictment announced Friday in Washington, Mueller describes a years-long, multimillion-dollar conspiracy by hundreds of Russians aimed at criticizing Hillary Clinton and supporting Senator Bernie Sanders and Trump. Mueller charged 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities and accused them of defrauding the U.S. government by interfering with the political process. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-16/u-s-charges-13-russians-3-companies-for-hacking-election+ Show Spoiler +A 37-page indictment resulting from special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation shows that Russian nationals and businesses also worked to boost the campaigns of Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and Green party nominee Jill Stein in an effort to damage Democrat Hillary Clinton.
The Russians “engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump,” according to the indictment, which was issued Friday. Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein was the beneficiary of at least one of the Russian-bought political ads on Facebook that federal government officials suspect were intended to influence the 2016 election.
Other advertisements paid for by shadowy Russian buyers criticized Hillary Clinton and promoted Donald Trump. Some backed Bernie Sanders and his platform even after his presidential campaign had ended, according to a person with knowledge of the ads. https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/26/facebook-russia-trump-sanders-stein-243172Funny enough I remember you liking and possibly backing jill stein over Hillary after bernie lost? According to the indictment, the defendants and their co-conspirators created hundreds of social media accounts impersonating real and fictitious Americans — and they paid for ads promoting their posts.
The Russians in the indictment acted as an organization, and employees who ran the accounts were directed to create “political intensity through supporting radical groups” and to criticize Hillary Clinton, but not Donald J. Trump or Bernie Sanders. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/02/16/us/politics/russia-propaganda-election-2016.htmlDo you need more? First I presume nothign on the Hillary part is your realization that I was right? If Russians say 2+2 =4 it doesn't mean math was tricked by the Russians. What you need to do is show some evidence that I was manipulated by it.
Thanks for ignoring the point and not reading the articles linking the pro bernie and anti hillary ads and memes to russia, you are doing your argument much justice. As for the other, I'm sure Hillary is in fine shape and has no problem standing, contrary to what you believed from russian ads. If you think someones ability to walk up a flight of stairs while having pictures taken of them is how we decide who should be president, I suggest you watch idiocracy.
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On February 18 2018 10:36 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2018 10:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 18 2018 10:31 hunts wrote:On February 18 2018 10:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 18 2018 10:13 hunts wrote:On February 18 2018 09:14 OuchyDathurts wrote:On February 18 2018 09:03 zlefin wrote:On February 18 2018 08:54 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Bernie is old, but that's also been part of his appeal. A 40 year old version of him wouldn't have nearly the same appeal. He's got some crazy ideas by contemporary American standards, but he's been around and walked the walk. There's no doubting he believes the things he believes. He's not flip flopping to suit current polling data.
As far as going against Trump 1 on 1 one of the biggest grievances against Hillary (and Democrats in general) is they didn't tell people how their policies would help them. The general election was just Trump and Hillary insulting each other, policy wasn't discussed at all. Bernie would absolutely trash Trump in that regard. If Bernie refused to get in the mud with Trump and kept things purely about policy and explaining why things are fucked and how his policies would make their lives better it would be a murder on stage. Trump is very clearly an unintelligent human, just imagine him having to talk policy and flailing about as he drowns. on policy hillary is/was way better than bernie; the problem is the media simply ignored it whenever hillary tried to talk about policy. hillary had extensive detailed plans, which included info on how each group would be helped by them; they were simply ignored and got no/little coverage. bernie has shown himself to be somewhat ignorant on policy when actually pressed on details. I'd disagree about bernie wakling the walk, so much as talking the talk. On policy people actually want, she's not better, and regardless she was too dumb to keep things about policy. She wanted to make it a wrestling match and turns out that was a incredibly stupid thing to do. Bernie keeps things purely about policy and why it's good and it matters to people and Trump has a less than 0% chance of winning. She kept trying to make things "LOL, see how dumb this fucking guy is? What a dummy!" the media didn't make her do that, she chose to do that. Everyone knows he sucks, that battle has already been settled, so now give me actual reasons your ideas are better than his. Stop making it a circus and give me policy, she refused to do so. The DNC primaries are almost entirely policy based from all parties involved....and then when the general hits its nowhere to be found. Lol Bernie has a voting history going back decades that aligns with the stuff he's still preaching, if that's not walking the walk in your book then nothing is. He didn't change his ideas because they're politically expedient like most others, that would be talking the talk. On policy people want promised to them that would magically make everything better and make everyone crap out rainbows and $1,000,000 bills, yes she wasn't better. On policy that could possibly happen, she was way better. The issue is people like trump and bernie promised impossible things that were too good to be true, and people wanted those. The people didn't care about what was possible or even realistic, and that's why we have the dumpsterfire we do now, and that's why we have bernie bros still running around defending his silly fairlytale policies. @GH Yes she can, can bernie stand for a 6 hour republican witch trial examination? And can you stop with the silly baseless attacks just because you fell for russian paid ads and memes? Do you have any evidence whatsoever from the last few years that she can do those things? Also she sat for that (but it is notable). It's idiotic to say I fell for Russian paid ads and memes when I've asked for any semblance of evidence of such a dozen times without any of my accusers ever providing any evidence, meanwhile I laid out a clear example of you guys falling for US propaganda and not one of you has the guts to engage with that. The "you're just a russian stooge" line is basically a glowing neon sign that one is a full throated endorser of US propaganda You were linked several articles that stated russia created/paid for pro bernie ads. I will do this again, and you will continue ignoring it and living in your own world, but at least next time you do this I will call you a liar, as I am now. U.S. Special Counsel Robert Mueller unveiled the details of a widespread and coordinated campaign by Russians to influence the U.S. presidential election in favor of Donald Trump, delivering on his initial mandate by the Justice Department.
In an indictment announced Friday in Washington, Mueller describes a years-long, multimillion-dollar conspiracy by hundreds of Russians aimed at criticizing Hillary Clinton and supporting Senator Bernie Sanders and Trump. Mueller charged 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities and accused them of defrauding the U.S. government by interfering with the political process. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-16/u-s-charges-13-russians-3-companies-for-hacking-election+ Show Spoiler +A 37-page indictment resulting from special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation shows that Russian nationals and businesses also worked to boost the campaigns of Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and Green party nominee Jill Stein in an effort to damage Democrat Hillary Clinton.
The Russians “engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump,” according to the indictment, which was issued Friday. Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein was the beneficiary of at least one of the Russian-bought political ads on Facebook that federal government officials suspect were intended to influence the 2016 election.
Other advertisements paid for by shadowy Russian buyers criticized Hillary Clinton and promoted Donald Trump. Some backed Bernie Sanders and his platform even after his presidential campaign had ended, according to a person with knowledge of the ads. https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/26/facebook-russia-trump-sanders-stein-243172Funny enough I remember you liking and possibly backing jill stein over Hillary after bernie lost? According to the indictment, the defendants and their co-conspirators created hundreds of social media accounts impersonating real and fictitious Americans — and they paid for ads promoting their posts.
The Russians in the indictment acted as an organization, and employees who ran the accounts were directed to create “political intensity through supporting radical groups” and to criticize Hillary Clinton, but not Donald J. Trump or Bernie Sanders. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/02/16/us/politics/russia-propaganda-election-2016.htmlDo you need more? First I presume nothign on the Hillary part is your realization that I was right? If Russians say 2+2 =4 it doesn't mean math was tricked by the Russians. What you need to do is show some evidence that I was manipulated by it. Thanks for ignoring the point and not reading the articles linking the pro bernie and anti hillary ads and memes to russia, you are doing your argument much justice. As for the other, I'm sure Hillary is in fine shape and has no problem standing, contrary to what you believed from russian ads. If you think someones ability to walk up a flight of stairs while having pictures taken of them is how we decide who should be president, I suggest you watch idiocracy.
I don't think you understand. I'm not even arguing whether there was a bunch of pro-bernie/anti-hillary crap out there coming from Russia (I mean in general I disagree with it's prevalence and effectiveness, but that's not important to this particular point).
I'm saying you can't say I was tricked, without providing evidence that I was tricked. Like I said, if the Russians say 2+2 =4 math wasn't tricked.
You're doing my argument fine justice by quite succinctly showing it.
On the Hillary thing, it would look less foolish for you to just admit you were wrong instead of trying to argue I think stair walking is how we should decide who's president.
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On February 18 2018 10:40 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2018 10:36 hunts wrote:On February 18 2018 10:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 18 2018 10:31 hunts wrote:On February 18 2018 10:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 18 2018 10:13 hunts wrote:On February 18 2018 09:14 OuchyDathurts wrote:On February 18 2018 09:03 zlefin wrote:On February 18 2018 08:54 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Bernie is old, but that's also been part of his appeal. A 40 year old version of him wouldn't have nearly the same appeal. He's got some crazy ideas by contemporary American standards, but he's been around and walked the walk. There's no doubting he believes the things he believes. He's not flip flopping to suit current polling data.
As far as going against Trump 1 on 1 one of the biggest grievances against Hillary (and Democrats in general) is they didn't tell people how their policies would help them. The general election was just Trump and Hillary insulting each other, policy wasn't discussed at all. Bernie would absolutely trash Trump in that regard. If Bernie refused to get in the mud with Trump and kept things purely about policy and explaining why things are fucked and how his policies would make their lives better it would be a murder on stage. Trump is very clearly an unintelligent human, just imagine him having to talk policy and flailing about as he drowns. on policy hillary is/was way better than bernie; the problem is the media simply ignored it whenever hillary tried to talk about policy. hillary had extensive detailed plans, which included info on how each group would be helped by them; they were simply ignored and got no/little coverage. bernie has shown himself to be somewhat ignorant on policy when actually pressed on details. I'd disagree about bernie wakling the walk, so much as talking the talk. On policy people actually want, she's not better, and regardless she was too dumb to keep things about policy. She wanted to make it a wrestling match and turns out that was a incredibly stupid thing to do. Bernie keeps things purely about policy and why it's good and it matters to people and Trump has a less than 0% chance of winning. She kept trying to make things "LOL, see how dumb this fucking guy is? What a dummy!" the media didn't make her do that, she chose to do that. Everyone knows he sucks, that battle has already been settled, so now give me actual reasons your ideas are better than his. Stop making it a circus and give me policy, she refused to do so. The DNC primaries are almost entirely policy based from all parties involved....and then when the general hits its nowhere to be found. Lol Bernie has a voting history going back decades that aligns with the stuff he's still preaching, if that's not walking the walk in your book then nothing is. He didn't change his ideas because they're politically expedient like most others, that would be talking the talk. On policy people want promised to them that would magically make everything better and make everyone crap out rainbows and $1,000,000 bills, yes she wasn't better. On policy that could possibly happen, she was way better. The issue is people like trump and bernie promised impossible things that were too good to be true, and people wanted those. The people didn't care about what was possible or even realistic, and that's why we have the dumpsterfire we do now, and that's why we have bernie bros still running around defending his silly fairlytale policies. @GH Yes she can, can bernie stand for a 6 hour republican witch trial examination? And can you stop with the silly baseless attacks just because you fell for russian paid ads and memes? Do you have any evidence whatsoever from the last few years that she can do those things? Also she sat for that (but it is notable). It's idiotic to say I fell for Russian paid ads and memes when I've asked for any semblance of evidence of such a dozen times without any of my accusers ever providing any evidence, meanwhile I laid out a clear example of you guys falling for US propaganda and not one of you has the guts to engage with that. The "you're just a russian stooge" line is basically a glowing neon sign that one is a full throated endorser of US propaganda You were linked several articles that stated russia created/paid for pro bernie ads. I will do this again, and you will continue ignoring it and living in your own world, but at least next time you do this I will call you a liar, as I am now. U.S. Special Counsel Robert Mueller unveiled the details of a widespread and coordinated campaign by Russians to influence the U.S. presidential election in favor of Donald Trump, delivering on his initial mandate by the Justice Department.
In an indictment announced Friday in Washington, Mueller describes a years-long, multimillion-dollar conspiracy by hundreds of Russians aimed at criticizing Hillary Clinton and supporting Senator Bernie Sanders and Trump. Mueller charged 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities and accused them of defrauding the U.S. government by interfering with the political process. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-16/u-s-charges-13-russians-3-companies-for-hacking-election+ Show Spoiler +A 37-page indictment resulting from special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation shows that Russian nationals and businesses also worked to boost the campaigns of Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and Green party nominee Jill Stein in an effort to damage Democrat Hillary Clinton.
The Russians “engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump,” according to the indictment, which was issued Friday. Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein was the beneficiary of at least one of the Russian-bought political ads on Facebook that federal government officials suspect were intended to influence the 2016 election.
Other advertisements paid for by shadowy Russian buyers criticized Hillary Clinton and promoted Donald Trump. Some backed Bernie Sanders and his platform even after his presidential campaign had ended, according to a person with knowledge of the ads. https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/26/facebook-russia-trump-sanders-stein-243172Funny enough I remember you liking and possibly backing jill stein over Hillary after bernie lost? According to the indictment, the defendants and their co-conspirators created hundreds of social media accounts impersonating real and fictitious Americans — and they paid for ads promoting their posts.
The Russians in the indictment acted as an organization, and employees who ran the accounts were directed to create “political intensity through supporting radical groups” and to criticize Hillary Clinton, but not Donald J. Trump or Bernie Sanders. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/02/16/us/politics/russia-propaganda-election-2016.htmlDo you need more? First I presume nothign on the Hillary part is your realization that I was right? If Russians say 2+2 =4 it doesn't mean math was tricked by the Russians. What you need to do is show some evidence that I was manipulated by it. Thanks for ignoring the point and not reading the articles linking the pro bernie and anti hillary ads and memes to russia, you are doing your argument much justice. As for the other, I'm sure Hillary is in fine shape and has no problem standing, contrary to what you believed from russian ads. If you think someones ability to walk up a flight of stairs while having pictures taken of them is how we decide who should be president, I suggest you watch idiocracy. I don't think you understand. I'm not even arguing whether there was a bunch of pro-bernie/anti-hillary crap out there coming from Russia (I mean in general I disagree with it's prevalence and effectiveness, but that's not important to this particular point). I'm saying you can't say I was tricked, without providing evidence that I was tricked. Like I said, if the Russians say 2+2 =4 math wasn't tricked. You're doing my argument fine justice by quite succinctly showing it. On the Hillary thing, it would look less foolish for you to just admit you were wrong instead of trying to argue I think stair walking is how we should decide who's president.
Well since I can't get inside your head, I can just say that your talking points match quite nicely with those of the russian troll factory. Maybe coincidence that you think the same way they do, but maybe not. Regardless you asking for proof that you personally were swayed by certain ads is just silly and a fallacy. As for your other silly statement, I am saying Hillary can climb a set of stairs, and you are silly for implying that she can't or that. A candidates ability to do so is important to them being president. If Hillary was in a wheel chair she would still make an infinitely better president than bernie or trump, but at this point I don't expect you to understand that.
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On February 18 2018 10:32 Sermokala wrote:
Theres a list of good democratic candidates and really bad. Democratic candidates. Amy klobushar wins the states trump flipped in the election and rides the blue firewall for 8 years. Shes an extremely well liked white Midwestern woman in a state with a lot of guns and low gun violence as well as a robust immigrant situation. She would crush it in Wisconsin michigan Illinois Pennsylvania and ohio. Shes young and will have two good Senate terms under her and no one has anything bad to say about her and all her political flanks are covered. Shes the candidate that can bring the democratic party togeather and heal the nation from the bitter years we've had.
How would you feel if you found out that she has had multiple abortions?
That’s a question that Republicans will be asking voters. They’ll imply that she has, without ever saying it. Then infowars types will use the implication and directly say it. It doesn’t need to be abortion, but they can imply a lot of shit.
Republicans have been destroying Democrat candidates with nonsense for a long time now. Remember, John Kerry got swiftboated in favor of George absent from national guard Bush. Obama is a Kenyan Muslim. Oh, and his pastor is anti-American.
You don’t need fire to create a lot of smoke. With a generally unknown person like Klobuchar, the Republicans can make up whatever they want and people will believe it.
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On February 18 2018 10:56 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2018 10:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 18 2018 10:36 hunts wrote:On February 18 2018 10:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 18 2018 10:31 hunts wrote:On February 18 2018 10:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 18 2018 10:13 hunts wrote:On February 18 2018 09:14 OuchyDathurts wrote:On February 18 2018 09:03 zlefin wrote:On February 18 2018 08:54 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Bernie is old, but that's also been part of his appeal. A 40 year old version of him wouldn't have nearly the same appeal. He's got some crazy ideas by contemporary American standards, but he's been around and walked the walk. There's no doubting he believes the things he believes. He's not flip flopping to suit current polling data.
As far as going against Trump 1 on 1 one of the biggest grievances against Hillary (and Democrats in general) is they didn't tell people how their policies would help them. The general election was just Trump and Hillary insulting each other, policy wasn't discussed at all. Bernie would absolutely trash Trump in that regard. If Bernie refused to get in the mud with Trump and kept things purely about policy and explaining why things are fucked and how his policies would make their lives better it would be a murder on stage. Trump is very clearly an unintelligent human, just imagine him having to talk policy and flailing about as he drowns. on policy hillary is/was way better than bernie; the problem is the media simply ignored it whenever hillary tried to talk about policy. hillary had extensive detailed plans, which included info on how each group would be helped by them; they were simply ignored and got no/little coverage. bernie has shown himself to be somewhat ignorant on policy when actually pressed on details. I'd disagree about bernie wakling the walk, so much as talking the talk. On policy people actually want, she's not better, and regardless she was too dumb to keep things about policy. She wanted to make it a wrestling match and turns out that was a incredibly stupid thing to do. Bernie keeps things purely about policy and why it's good and it matters to people and Trump has a less than 0% chance of winning. She kept trying to make things "LOL, see how dumb this fucking guy is? What a dummy!" the media didn't make her do that, she chose to do that. Everyone knows he sucks, that battle has already been settled, so now give me actual reasons your ideas are better than his. Stop making it a circus and give me policy, she refused to do so. The DNC primaries are almost entirely policy based from all parties involved....and then when the general hits its nowhere to be found. Lol Bernie has a voting history going back decades that aligns with the stuff he's still preaching, if that's not walking the walk in your book then nothing is. He didn't change his ideas because they're politically expedient like most others, that would be talking the talk. On policy people want promised to them that would magically make everything better and make everyone crap out rainbows and $1,000,000 bills, yes she wasn't better. On policy that could possibly happen, she was way better. The issue is people like trump and bernie promised impossible things that were too good to be true, and people wanted those. The people didn't care about what was possible or even realistic, and that's why we have the dumpsterfire we do now, and that's why we have bernie bros still running around defending his silly fairlytale policies. @GH Yes she can, can bernie stand for a 6 hour republican witch trial examination? And can you stop with the silly baseless attacks just because you fell for russian paid ads and memes? Do you have any evidence whatsoever from the last few years that she can do those things? Also she sat for that (but it is notable). It's idiotic to say I fell for Russian paid ads and memes when I've asked for any semblance of evidence of such a dozen times without any of my accusers ever providing any evidence, meanwhile I laid out a clear example of you guys falling for US propaganda and not one of you has the guts to engage with that. The "you're just a russian stooge" line is basically a glowing neon sign that one is a full throated endorser of US propaganda You were linked several articles that stated russia created/paid for pro bernie ads. I will do this again, and you will continue ignoring it and living in your own world, but at least next time you do this I will call you a liar, as I am now. U.S. Special Counsel Robert Mueller unveiled the details of a widespread and coordinated campaign by Russians to influence the U.S. presidential election in favor of Donald Trump, delivering on his initial mandate by the Justice Department.
In an indictment announced Friday in Washington, Mueller describes a years-long, multimillion-dollar conspiracy by hundreds of Russians aimed at criticizing Hillary Clinton and supporting Senator Bernie Sanders and Trump. Mueller charged 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities and accused them of defrauding the U.S. government by interfering with the political process. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-16/u-s-charges-13-russians-3-companies-for-hacking-election+ Show Spoiler +A 37-page indictment resulting from special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation shows that Russian nationals and businesses also worked to boost the campaigns of Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and Green party nominee Jill Stein in an effort to damage Democrat Hillary Clinton.
The Russians “engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump,” according to the indictment, which was issued Friday. Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein was the beneficiary of at least one of the Russian-bought political ads on Facebook that federal government officials suspect were intended to influence the 2016 election.
Other advertisements paid for by shadowy Russian buyers criticized Hillary Clinton and promoted Donald Trump. Some backed Bernie Sanders and his platform even after his presidential campaign had ended, according to a person with knowledge of the ads. https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/26/facebook-russia-trump-sanders-stein-243172Funny enough I remember you liking and possibly backing jill stein over Hillary after bernie lost? According to the indictment, the defendants and their co-conspirators created hundreds of social media accounts impersonating real and fictitious Americans — and they paid for ads promoting their posts.
The Russians in the indictment acted as an organization, and employees who ran the accounts were directed to create “political intensity through supporting radical groups” and to criticize Hillary Clinton, but not Donald J. Trump or Bernie Sanders. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/02/16/us/politics/russia-propaganda-election-2016.htmlDo you need more? First I presume nothign on the Hillary part is your realization that I was right? If Russians say 2+2 =4 it doesn't mean math was tricked by the Russians. What you need to do is show some evidence that I was manipulated by it. Thanks for ignoring the point and not reading the articles linking the pro bernie and anti hillary ads and memes to russia, you are doing your argument much justice. As for the other, I'm sure Hillary is in fine shape and has no problem standing, contrary to what you believed from russian ads. If you think someones ability to walk up a flight of stairs while having pictures taken of them is how we decide who should be president, I suggest you watch idiocracy. I don't think you understand. I'm not even arguing whether there was a bunch of pro-bernie/anti-hillary crap out there coming from Russia (I mean in general I disagree with it's prevalence and effectiveness, but that's not important to this particular point). I'm saying you can't say I was tricked, without providing evidence that I was tricked. Like I said, if the Russians say 2+2 =4 math wasn't tricked. You're doing my argument fine justice by quite succinctly showing it. On the Hillary thing, it would look less foolish for you to just admit you were wrong instead of trying to argue I think stair walking is how we should decide who's president. Well since I can't get inside your head, I can just say that your talking points match quite nicely with those of the russian troll factory. Maybe coincidence that you think the same way they do, but maybe not. Regardless you asking for proof that you personally were swayed by certain ads is just silly and a fallacy. As for your other silly statement, I am saying Hillary can climb a set of stairs, and you are silly for implying that she can't or that a candidates ability to do so is important to them being president. If Hillary was in a wheel chair she would still make an infinitely better president than bernie or trump, but at this point I don't expect you to understand that.
How about something that is objectively inaccurate that Russians propagated that I didn't believe without them? Or a specific example of an ad that you think tricked/swayed/manipulated me? That way we can analyze the basis for which you claim I was tricked by said ad.
I managed to quite clearly link a direct quote from a poster to a US propaganda headline (which he conveniently cited as evidence of his mistaken belief) and none of you (publicly) agreed with me that said person had clearly been tricked by propaganda. Strictly because it wasn't Russian propaganda and it didn't help your argument politically.
+ Show Spoiler +
This is tangential to the more important issue:
I'm silly for saying your inability to find any evidence of what you claim to be obviously true regarding Hillary's physical capabilities is suspect?
I think that makes you the silly one considering she was just on the most public tour of the country in her life and I easily found evidence of Bernie doing it. As to it's relation to her ability to be president you would know that argument is completely fallacious if you read how it came up (sorta my fault for not directly quoting). To catch you up, it was in response to the request for evidence that Bernie was clearly more healthy than Hillary in the ways I described. That one couldn't argue Bernie's health (as it stands currently) is disqualifying but Hillary's was acceptable.
Hope that helps.
EDIT: Decided to add a link so people can read what I'm referencing for themselves if they missed it
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EPT![[image loading]](https://static.politico.com/dims4/default/72b7fad/2147483647/resize/1160x%3E/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F4e%2F31%2F5ccfe57f4530a351578dda3b913e%2Fd-sanders-bernie-ap-1160.jpg)
