US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9934

a. On or about August 4, 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators began purchasing advertisements that promoted a post on the Facebook account “Stop A.I.” The post alleged that “Hillary Clinton has already committed voter fraud during the Democrat Iowa Caucus.”

b. On or about August 11, 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators posted that allegations of voter fraud were being investigated in North Carolina on the Twitter account @TEN_GOP.

c. On or about November 2, 2016, Defendants and their co-conspirators used the same account to post allegations of “#VoterFraud by counting tens of thousands of ineligible mail in Hillary votes being reported in Broward County, Florida.”

On February 18 2018 14:28 Wulfey_LA wrote:
GH, you been pushing the Russian line for years. Just own it and deal with it. Your views and the memes the indicted crew pushed are the same. No amount of arguments about how you were misquoted will change where you stand relative to what the ruskies pushed. They pushed #BernieOrBust and JillNotHill and other anti-establishment nonsense, and so did/do you.

Here is a good one that should feel close to home for you.



https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/02/russians-tried-to-suppress-minority-turnout-spread-lies-about-voter-fraud/

Sounds just like you!

On February 18 2018 15:41 Leporello wrote:
To be dishonest af, I'm not concerned in pointing out that people were duped and were spreading Russian BS.
Even Senators and news-anchors were retweeting these propagandists. If someone wants to deny it at this point -- whatever. Not wasting time on that. People don't admit when they lie, and they don't admit they were lied to. And tribalism, and blah blah blah.


I voted for Bernie (then Hillary in the general). I know I didn't vote for him because of propaganda. And I don't care if someone voted for Jill Stein, because they hated Hillary or whatever. People have their reasons, and they're not going to call them fake. They're not fake. I just hope the diehard BernieOrBusters realize, going forward, that there was nothing much there with Jill Stein. I mean, she was and is just kind of an empty windbag. I don't care that they hate the DNC. But Jill Stein? Letting Donald Trump win? It's time to grow up.

If someone like GH wants to go Green Party, then I honestly look forward to them arguing for their candidate on some merit beyond banalities like the "Clinton e-mails, the DNC is rigged" and that meaningless stuff. Things are more important than that.

I think Hillary is a deeply unethical person when it comes to separating her job and her personal relationships (Clinton Foundation). She is deeply arrogant and thought she was entitled to be President. But she is a competent adult and you let a treasonous manchild take over. And there's just no excuse for that... disregard for your country. All the whining about the DNC and "both parties are bad" is just piddly bullshit in comparison to letting someone like Donald Trump represent America.

On February 18 2018 15:43 GreenHorizons wrote:


ftfy.

If we want to see someone not admit when they were lied to we need look no further than the liberals in this thread.

On February 18 2018 15:51 Leporello wrote:


I haven't been the one quoting you, or pointing fingers at you. How am I dishonest about that? I am interested in pointing out the Russian propaganda itself. That would be true. I would be dishonest if I said that didn't concern me.

But I have never shown concern over who in this thread was using @TEN_GOP tweets or whatever. Are you knee-jerking with this response? We all know you're the "Bernie Bro" of the thread, but I never accused you as to WHY.

I've never questioned YOUR intentions.

That was my whole fucking point, actually. So thanks, for completely ignoring it.

Your actual response to me, besides your clever editing of my post, doesn't even really, like, address anything I was saying.

Good luck, dude. IDK.

If someone wants to deny it at this point -- whatever. Not wasting time on that. People don't admit when they lie, and they don't admit they were lied to. And tribalism, and blah blah blah.

On February 18 2018 16:08 Leporello wrote:
I can see why you might think I'm being snide towards you, and I apologize for that.

But I just really want to press that if someone thinks you voted for the wrong reasons, then fuck it. If you get the impression that I think that way about you -- then to hell with me. That election is over. And I just want Jill Stein voters to not be on this defensive position about why they voted for her, even if everyone is screaming "propaganda". As far as you're concerned -- it doesn't matter. Does it?

I mean, I get defending yourself from people calling you out, so I'm specifically not trying to do that. I just want to know that next election we're not reliving Bernie vs. Hillary because you feel you're being given the McCarthy treatment. A) I don't think it's true, and B) this is a distraction.

It is worth noting that Russian propaganda was used. As I said -- used by fucking everybody. It's not worth the accusations.

On February 18 2018 08:44 zlefin wrote:
nebuchad, your counterpoints don't fully hold; one of the reasons sanders has such popularity is that he hasn't been the subject of attacks much, because he hasn't been in the lead and avoided the party system. it's simply unclear how thinsg would change if the attack ads found in a national general campaign actually happened.
there's a lot of potential problems which could hurt sanders, and most voters are terribly uninformed and aren't aware of those yet.

On February 18 2018 16:15 GreenHorizons wrote:


I want to give everyone who may consider bringing it up in the future plenty of time to respond/bring it before I move on personally but I'll take you at your word about what you meant.

As to the rest to the effect that I wouldn't literally call it/mean McCarthyism. I have been the target of unsubstantiated accusations of Russian influence for months now, where it repeatedly ends like it sits now (their accusations falling apart) and them just waiting for something else to come up and act like it didn't happen.

Additionally there is value in understanding how the phenomena I'm describing can contribute to many of the problems we currently face and will face in the upcoming elections. Again, as to give people the opportunity to get the last of their "GH is influenced by Russia" trash out I'd prefer to take it up in PM until sufficient time has elapsed.

EDIT after leo's edit so he's not endorsing this in any way:

*several of them are watching this thread right now desperately hoping someone not directly implicated posts something about ANYTHING else (or someone just bites the credibility bullet) so they can still participate without having to address the elephant + Show Spoiler + in the thread.*

On February 18 2018 18:17 hunts wrote:


LoL it's cute you say that. But in the end, even if you first jumped on the bernie train before the russian sponsored mmes and ads, your talking points still aligned with theirs afterwards, meaning you probably did listen to them. Regardless of what you say, most bernie and anti hillary people WERE influenced by russia, and to deny that is to deny the FBI, CIA, NSA, and every other intelligence agency. At that point, you may as well tell us the moon landing was fake. I could care less if by some chance maybe you personally came to the conclusion that Hillary was brain damaged and dying of cancer without the russian troll factory, but if you don't admit that they pushed the same narrative you happened to, and that others who held similar beliefs as you WERE influenced by them, then you're just delusional. In the end, I really don't care what you think, who you vote for, or how you feel. I just don't like you spreading misinformation on behalf of a foreign country and believing that you are saying what you yourself truly believe.

On February 18 2018 18:57 GreenHorizons wrote:


I see that instead of engaging with the argument at all you're perfectly content to ignore both the elephant + Show Spoiler +

and the time I took to point out the absurdity of your claims. In addition you've added that my clear examples and the collective inability for the thread to provide any for their argument (regarding myself) and now substituted your own arguments (brain damaged/dying of cancer Hillary) and made them the equivalent to me being the person thinking they faked the moon landing and you being the perfectly reasonable one.

I just hope the liberals here don't hide behind you poorly making their argument for them and instead own what happened.

On February 18 2018 19:03 hunts wrote:


But you still believe absolutely ridiculous things that have no facts backing them up and literal mountains of facts against them, while failing to provide evidence, while also calling people out for disagreeing with your silly beliefs. Come on man.

"absolutely ridiculous things that have no facts backing them up and literal mountains of facts against them, while failing to provide evidence, while also calling people out for disagreeing with your silly beliefs."

On February 18 2018 19:14 GreenHorizons wrote:


With exception to my questions that can not be named, I'd be happy to hash any of the



that you're envisioning, but first I'd prefer you acknowledge your persistent wrongness regarding previous post (but I get why people don't).

Forgiving that not happening, The Elephant™ + Show Spoiler + if you please?

On February 18 2018 19:20 hunts wrote:


I acknowledged that you jumped on the bernie train before the russian propaganda did. That does not in any way mean you did not see and believe their memes and ads and such afterwards. All it means is you were on your way there already before they started telling you what to believe.

On February 18 2018 19:20 hunts wrote:


I acknowledged that you jumped on the bernie train before the russian propaganda did. That does not in any way mean you did not see and believe their memes and ads and such afterwards. All it means is you were on your way there already before they started telling you what to believe.

On February 18 2018 19:26 GreenHorizons wrote:


For the sake of moving the conversation forward in the absence of a liberal with the time, courage, or inclination to attempt to make this argument in a less embarrassing fashion, and in disregard to the whole Russians saying 2+2=4 doesn't mean math is spreading their propaganda and being told what to believe, that'll do.

But back to The Elephant™ + Show Spoiler +
though...?

On February 18 2018 19:31 hunts wrote:


You're going in cricles again, and again. I addressed what you said, you have failed time and again to address what I or anyone else have said, you are embarrassing yourself here, as usual. Just because you jumped on the bernie train before the russian bots, does not mean you were immune to their future work. The fact that your talking points have closely followed theirs, does not help your case here at all. Your "russians saying 2+2=4" statement would have more weight if you weren't caught so often repeating their talking points that were prove not be false, only to continue repeating them some more.

On February 18 2018 19:35 GreenHorizons wrote:


You're correct about the circles, but you'll notice my posts have links and examples and yours have empty accusations and an insatiable desire to avoid The Elephant™ + Show Spoiler + no matter how embarrassing it gets.

Because the rhetoric was begrudgingly shared and reasonably subtle I'll be more explicit.

I was trying to (for the sake of moving the argument forward) concede whatever you think happened to me (regarding Russian influence) and hoping you would engage with the The Elephant™

On February 18 2018 19:41 Jockmcplop wrote:


The elephant being that one example that you have been clinging to relentlessly ever since despite the fact that P6 acknowledged that he was wrong and apologized.