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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18013 Posts
On February 17 2018 23:50 sc-darkness wrote: Have democrats announced who will be their next candidate to be president? Hopefully Sanders but I doubt it. You hope it'll be Sanders because you think he'll lose? From what you were doing in the UK politics thread you seem pretty opposed to virtually everything Sanders wants? | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12205 Posts
On February 18 2018 00:27 Acrofales wrote: You hope it'll be Sanders because you think he'll lose? From what you were doing in the UK politics thread you seem pretty opposed to virtually everything Sanders wants? Can't imagine someone thinking Sanders would lose 2020 in the current circumstances | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
On February 18 2018 00:27 Acrofales wrote: You hope it'll be Sanders because you think he'll lose? From what you were doing in the UK politics thread you seem pretty opposed to virtually everything Sanders wants? A full blown socialist like Sanders would wreck the U.S. and hit the world pretty hard, I'd rather he not run in the off chance he could win. he is a thousand years old though. | ||
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Dromar
United States2145 Posts
On February 18 2018 01:02 GoTuNk! wrote: A full blown socialist like Sanders would wreck the U.S. and hit the world pretty hard, I'd rather he not run in the off chance he could win. he is a thousand years old though. That he's old is the primary argument against him running. But honestly the guy is pretty healthy. I don't get it. He's in better shape, both mentally and physically, than Trump is in now. And it's not even particularly close. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On February 18 2018 01:56 Dromar wrote: That he's old is the primary argument against him running. But honestly the guy is pretty healthy. I don't get it. He's in better shape, both mentally and physically, than Trump is in now. And it's not even particularly close. being better than trump isn't much of a bar, nor is being quite a bit better than trump; that's still a very low bar. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23255 Posts
On February 18 2018 02:00 zlefin wrote: being better than trump isn't much of a bar, nor is being quite a bit better than trump; that's still a very low bar. Was and is healthier than Hillary too. If her health wasn't disqualifying I don't know how his could be (for Hillary voters anyway). He's not my first pick, but he's a hell of a lot better than someone like Kamala Harris or Corey Booker. Perhaps I should outline all of my problems with every potential Democratic candidate soon, as to preempt more accusations of being manipulated by Russians without evidence (even though we have a very clear example of liberals being manipulated with US propaganda, and a second less obvious example). Something tells me it won't matter, any criticism of Democrats from the left is pure Russian propaganda forever I imagine. | ||
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farvacola
United States18829 Posts
On February 18 2018 01:02 GoTuNk! wrote: A full blown socialist like Sanders would wreck the U.S. and hit the world pretty hard, I'd rather he not run in the off chance he could win. he is a thousand years old though. This is a load of unsubstantiated crap that can only come from a place of fearmongering the likes of which the US encouraged in Chile through support for men like Pinochet. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On February 18 2018 02:27 GreenHorizons wrote: Something tells me it won't matter, any criticism of Democrats from the left is pure Russian propaganda forever I imagine. Look, you're either for [Hillary or equivalent], or you're [against Democracy / supporting the rise of fascism / victim of Russian propaganda / destroying America and the principles it stands for / a racist sexist bigot]. This story was told before any inkling of Russia came around, it'll be told after that story runs its course. It's a coping mechanism to deal with how badly the centrist consensus (including Hillary but also Jeb! and other Republican candidates who got bodied by Trump) dropped the ball. | ||
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plated.rawr
Norway1676 Posts
On February 18 2018 01:02 GoTuNk! wrote: A full blown socialist like Sanders would wreck the U.S. and hit the world pretty hard, I'd rather he not run in the off chance he could win. he is a thousand years old though. Sanders is a social democrat, not a socialist. A socialist ruling system would be the transitional goverment on the path to communistic redistribution of ownership, something which social democracy (or any modern nation) is not. If you're going to be afraid of ideologies, at least know what they are. That said, I'd think Sanders has blown his chance really, and he'd be too old in the coming presidental election. I also don't think the US is ready for a social democratic president, as the other elected representatives in House and Congress probably wouldn't be up for zany ideas such as "functioning, affordable health-care for all" and "tax-financed, solid education for all". Point being, change for social democracy in the US needs to be a grass-root movement to envelop a lot of elected positions, not simply that of the president. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On February 18 2018 02:27 GreenHorizons wrote: Was and is healthier than Hillary too. If her health wasn't disqualifying I don't know how his could be (for Hillary voters anyway). He's not my first pick, but he's a hell of a lot better than someone like Kamala Harris or Corey Booker. Perhaps I should outline all of my problems with every potential Democratic candidate soon, as to preempt more accusations of being manipulated by Russians without evidence (even though we have a very clear example of liberals being manipulated with US propaganda, and a second less obvious example). Something tells me it won't matter, any criticism of Democrats from the left is pure Russian propaganda forever I imagine. what citations/basis do you have for his current health/health then? at any rate; I agree it wasn't disqualifying last cycle; but by the next one it's really getting a bit too old. also, be less of a jerk and/or don't respond to me. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12205 Posts
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
On February 17 2018 12:59 Plansix wrote: I truly believe Trump is so out of touch with reality that he didn’t even know that accepting assistance from Russia would come back on him. Or he didn’t believe that it would be considered highly illegal. The Presidency is just something that black asshole that made fun of him earn, so it couldn’t be that important. So why not take a little assistance Russia or some other country? This is how I think Mueller will end his investigation. He's not going to conclude that Trump was some 1337 spy coordinating with Putin from the beginning. He's going to find that Trump was a useful unwitting idiot. Whether or not he'll find that what started off unwitting became witting or even a cover-up/obstruction is less clear to me but it seems likely too. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On February 18 2018 03:25 FallDownMarigold wrote: This is how I think Mueller will end his investigation. He's not going to conclude that Trump was some 1337 spy coordinating with Putin from the beginning. He's going to find that Trump was a useful unwitting idiot. Whether or not he'll find that what started off unwitting became witting or even a cover-up/obstruction is less clear to me but it seems likely too. There are few people for whom I'm more willing to apply Hanlon's Razor than Donald Trump (never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice). All the news I've seen thus far has reinforced the possibility for me that Trump made some godawful hiring decisions (and then ceded authority to the individuals in question because he's a pure delegator with no actual skills) which were driven by the fact that only scum wanted to work with or under him, resulting in a pretty messy campaign that probably fucked up at a few points legally. Then because he has the potent combination of big ego and massive stupidity, he tried to kill an investigation that would expose that he hired terrible people (and gave them substantial power and authority because of his allergy to work) that in his heart of hearts he also believes probably fucked up at multiple points. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21717 Posts
On February 18 2018 03:25 FallDownMarigold wrote: This is how I think Mueller will end his investigation. He's not going to conclude that Trump was some 1337 spy coordinating with Putin from the beginning. He's going to find that Trump was a useful unwitting idiot. Whether or not he'll find that what started off unwitting became witting or even a cover-up/obstruction is less clear to me but it seems likely too. It most likely started out as a useful unwitting idiot but if Trump accepted aid (like at the Trump tower meeting) then it stops being an unwitting idiot and goes right into being a (potential) crime. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On February 18 2018 03:34 TheTenthDoc wrote: There are few people for whom I'm more willing to apply Hanlon's Razor than Donald Trump (never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice). All the news I've seen thus far has reinforced the possibility for me that Trump made some godawful hiring decisions (and then ceded authority to the individuals in question because he's a pure delegator with no actual skills) which were driven by the fact that only scum wanted to work with or under him, resulting in a pretty messy campaign that probably fucked up at a few points legally. Then because he has the potent combination of big ego and massive stupidity, he tried to kill an investigation that would expose that he hired terrible people (and gave them substantial power and authority because of his allergy to work) that in his heart of hearts he also believes probably fucked up at multiple points. I really don't think that Trump believes he could ever fuck up being the president. The rampant narcissism just doesn't allow for it. I don't think he's taken responsibility for anything that didn't go well in his presidency. Every problem is someone else's fault, because clearly he didn't make that mistake. The combination of being a powerful idiot and surrounding himself with malicious/corrupt yes-men/women just makes it worse. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7890 Posts
On February 18 2018 02:27 farvacola wrote: This is a load of unsubstantiated crap that can only come from a place of fearmongering the likes of which the US encouraged in Chile through support for men like Pinochet. I wouldn’t be surprised if GT was of the opinion that Pinochet was not that bad and saved the country from the disastrous communist Allende. He sounds like a pro Franco spanish grandmother during the civil war when he goes about “socialists”. And as weird as it sounds, the hard right in Chile actually does regret Pinochet, just as you will find solid nostalgia for Mussolini in Italy amongst tge most right wing people. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On February 18 2018 03:34 TheTenthDoc wrote: There are few people for whom I'm more willing to apply Hanlon's Razor than Donald Trump (never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice). All the news I've seen thus far has reinforced the possibility for me that Trump made some godawful hiring decisions (and then ceded authority to the individuals in question because he's a pure delegator with no actual skills) which were driven by the fact that only scum wanted to work with or under him, resulting in a pretty messy campaign that probably fucked up at a few points legally. Then because he has the potent combination of big ego and massive stupidity, he tried to kill an investigation that would expose that he hired terrible people (and gave them substantial power and authority because of his allergy to work) that in his heart of hearts he also believes probably fucked up at multiple points. Donald Trump is 100% malicious. There's plenty of people on the record about how petty he is, how long and how deeply he holds grudges, and how eager he is to see anyone who's slighted him pay for doing so. I do not think he even faintly believes he has done anything wrong. It's ALWAYS someone else. He'd probably blame whoever put the table there if he knocked over a glass of water. Still, regardless of my personal opinion on the Drumpster's (lack of) character; which hiring decisions do you think he genuinely regrets? If I was going to be charitable towards him (I'm not), I'd say he probably regrets Jeff Sessions, Scaramucci, and... whoever it was Scaramucci replaced. Genuinely can't remember his name though I remember him hiding in bushes. MAYBE the guy leading the EPA? | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
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