US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9929

On February 17 2018 11:47 KwarK wrote:
I feel like this is so obvious it ought not to need saying but whatever, I'll say it anyway. A theory that involves a conspiracy is not the same thing as a conspiracy theory. A conspiracy theory is generally a theory that a small group of people secretly control events to do evil things or whatever. Normally considered far fetched. A theory involving a conspiracy is any theory where a group of people conspired.

Examples:
Bush did 9/11 is a conspiracy theory
Al Qaeda did 9/11 is a theory involving a conspiracy (to attack the WTC using planes)

Both contain conspiracies, but both are not conspiracy theories.

Trump accepting Russian aid in the election is a theory involving a conspiracy, not a conspiracy theory. The Russians sent emails stating that they wanted to meet as part of their government support of his campaign. The meeting took place. Minutes after the meeting Trump was tweeting about hacked emails for the first time. A quick study of Trump's tweeting habits will confirm that whenever he learns something new that affirms his worldview, such as every morning when he watches Fox and Friends, he immediately tweets about it.

The 9/11 Al Qaeda did it theory is "things basically went down more or less the way it looks like to any casual observer". So is the Trump Russia theory.

Trump tweeted about Hillary's hacked emails minutes after the representatives of the government who hacked the emails met his son to offer state support just metres from the office where Trump himself was sitting at the time. The theory that he tweeted about the emails because his son just told him about them doesn't require a secret group of Jewish elders running the world to be true, it's the same kind of reach as "maybe the WTC fell down because it was on fire".

On February 17 2018 12:00 riotjune wrote:
Maybe this whole gun thing is actually a Russian ploy to get Americans to continue killing their kids.

On February 17 2018 12:26 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I've said it before in this thread, Russia is trying to cause chaos within the US. They're trying to destroy us from the inside out, without ever stepping on our soil with an army, and sadly it's been working.

On February 17 2018 12:46 Leporello wrote:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/884016887692234753

I'd totally forgotten about this.
Come the fuck on with this already.
I don't think anyone can actually remember every single guilty-as-fuck thing Trump has said and done.

And that is the part of the damage. This "Russiar thing" has revealed such an Orwellian streak in us, that the President of the United States can be so two-faced, so audaciously complicit, and we continue to have swaths of people who aren't simply withholding judgment or don't care, but actually promote his innocence, all the way up to the Senate. I mean he's admitted to obstruction. He's admitted to completely given every favor and benefit to Putin that he possibly could. He's an admitted pervert without self-control, with an admitted love for Russia.

I don't need the pee-tape to tell you that Trump got freaky with Russian prostitutes. Or that he laundered Russian money. And that his entire "political movement" is simply payback for some personal bankruptcy. It's who he is. A degenerate, terrible salesman, who's success has always depended on the charity of other degenerates. And he took every Republican in this country, from the Senate on down, for a ride in his filthy van, by which I mean the most treasonous, corrupt, terrible Presidency in the history of the United States.

This fucking tweet is treason. It's illiterate, dumb, clownish treason. That's what it is. And it's just one fucking example.

On February 17 2018 12:26 ShoCkeyy wrote:
I've said it before in this thread, Russia is trying to cause chaos within the US. They're trying to destroy us from the inside out, without ever stepping on our soil with an army, and sadly it's been working.

On February 17 2018 12:50 GreenHorizons wrote:


Now take that anger and amplify it at the inability of your proxy champions to do anything to stop it, more so when they actively and clearly support it. Expect more and don't settle for less.

On February 17 2018 12:55 Leporello wrote:


The "Russiar thing" could've been a small chapter, if Trump were to act complicit with the United States, instead of with "Russiar". It has only worked as long as people allow it to work, and it only works because of the underlying crime. It won't go away by pretending it doesn't exist, while Trump destroys our foreign policy.

It sucks. I don't think anyone, even in the spectacle of history being made, enjoys the fact that the President is guilty of betraying his country.

On February 17 2018 13:03 GreenHorizons wrote:


What gets me is that if we accept that as true (which most people are beyond convinced of even if they claim otherwise), what does it say about our system and current position. If someone can be so openly blatant and brazen about it while also being remarkably outright stupid and all we can do is get a special council to slap some lackeys on the wrist, what hope is there?

A remotely competent ambitious sociopath could basically get away with anything so long as they manage to be more capable than literally the most idiotic pathologically lying person ever to sit at the head of the executive branch.

In which case we're fucked. If Trump is as bad as people say (I think he basically is) and he's (and his team) as obviously guilty of multiple infractions as it seems and we essentially can't do more than pitch a fit about it, how can people possibly keep the suspension of disbelief going?

On February 17 2018 13:07 Leporello wrote:


It feels like you're spreading the blame, which annoys me.
Many people have been correct. Many people called the Emperor naked. And they continue.

And he is being exposed, more and more.
The failure is on some. Not all.

On February 17 2018 08:42 GreenHorizons wrote:


That sounds EXTREMELY familiar. First it was "the DNC isn't rigging the primary", "Sure there was favoritism but it wasn't a coordinated thing", "okay, they worked together to push Bernie out but it wasn't against the rules", "Okay it was against the spirit of the rules but they are just suggestions and It didn't affect the outcome!"

I'm not going to say that Republicans don't tend to follow remarkably crazier patterns in general, but I think some reflection on how this stuff works would do liberals some good.

On February 17 2018 13:03 GreenHorizons wrote:


What gets me is that if we accept that as true (which most people are beyond convinced of even if they claim otherwise), what does it say about our system and current position. If someone can be so openly blatant and brazen about it while also being remarkably outright stupid and all we can do is get a special council to slap some lackeys on the wrist, what hope is there?

A remotely competent ambitious sociopath could basically get away with anything so long as they manage to be more capable than literally the most idiotic pathologically lying person ever to sit at the head of the executive branch.

In which case we're fucked. If Trump is as bad as people say (I think he basically is) and he's (and his team) as obviously guilty of multiple infractions as it seems and we essentially can't do more than pitch a fit about it, how can people possibly keep the suspension of disbelief going?

On February 17 2018 17:18 Tachion wrote:

Why do you maintain such outrage over the DNC "rigging" the primaries, yet are so dismissive of the Russia investigation where actual illegal activity occurred? Do you think the former is a graver offense than the latter?

On February 17 2018 18:49 iamthedave wrote:


I'm pretty confident that the US will turn to actual fascism inside a century unless there's a dramatic socio-political shift. Trump is the sign.

Trump is not as bad as people say; he's not a fascist. But if he was his supporters would back him. If he said he wanted to delay the 2020 elections to stop Democrats from preventing him from Making America Great Again, some people would cheer. If he openly called for militias to start rounding up illegal immigrants, some would do it.

The conditions aren't right quite yet, but the slide is obvious. When half of the country thinks the other half is literally the enemy, when your schoolkids are murdering each other and your politicians just shrug and keep on keeping on, when the gap between your wealthy and poor is so vast you might as well be from different planets, when the truth is compromised to the point that people don't even care about it anymore, when the police in some parts of your country are practically a paramilitary group and are regularly killing innocent people for no real consequence, you're only a hop skip and a jump from a charismatic madman deciding that ALL OF THIS MUST BE FIXED AND I HAVE A SOLUTION.

I think the real scary thing for me is that I think a lot of Americans still don't understand how fascism happens. You kind of don't without it happening. I've heard Americans say all the checks and balances are there to stop it, but those checks and balances only work because people at the helm make them do so. Fascists don't always get into power sneaking in through the backdoor. They're sometimes ushered in to rapturous applause by crowds of supporters, surrounded by men in suits eager to reshape the halls of government for x, y and z reasons, full of big ideas.

But we'll see. Maybe Trump is the wake up call America needs, and your next generation is so appalled that they'll yank the country kicking and screaming back towards the left a few inches. I don't see much reason to hope at the minute though.

I mean, shit, the evangelicals overwhelmingly voted for Trump, didn't they? If your centres of faith have become so politically compromised that they'll back the almost perfect physical embodiment of Mammon, and they hold enough sway to matter, that right there says a lot about the soul of a big part of America.

On February 17 2018 23:50 sc-darkness wrote:
Have democrats announced who will be their next candidate to be president? Hopefully Sanders but I doubt it.