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On February 06 2018 23:38 Velr wrote:
But most are employes.
Do i understand you wrong or are. Youbasically arguing for mass poverty that leads into some revolution as a long term benefit?
GH is cheering on the collapse because he doesn’t have to deal with the aftermath. As someone who will if I remain in my current line of work, I’m not excited. The first great recession was not great. I don’t want to see it happen with these indifferent assholes in charge.
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On February 06 2018 23:38 Velr wrote:
But most are employes.
Do i understand you wrong or are. Youbasically arguing for mass poverty that leads into some revolution as a long term benefit?
Mehhh. I mean we could play with a margins a bit by not including people under 16 how we count self-employed people (and different circumstances), how we count immigrants legal and otherwise, measuring errors, etc. But we're talking about ~50% of the population not being employees either.
Not exactly on your other point. I don't discount that possibility but I was merely pointing out that economic implosions do benefit some people. The severity/circumstances of the economic implosion make a difference to who but as an example we could look at gold and gold mining investors during/following the great depression
On February 06 2018 23:45 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2018 23:38 Velr wrote:
But most are employes.
Do i understand you wrong or are. Youbasically arguing for mass poverty that leads into some revolution as a long term benefit? GH is cheering on the collapse because he doesn’t have to deal with the aftermath. As someone who will if I remain in my current line of work, I’m not excited. The first great recession was not great. I don’t want to see it happen with these indifferent assholes in charge.
You remember I'm not actually in Liberia right? I'd certainly have to deal with the aftermath. I don't think anyone cares if it means more paperwork for you.
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GH, I don’t give a shit about paperwork. That is my job. I’m talking about an abandoned property burning down and the city coming to my firm to find out who owns it because the investor that bought it no longer exists. And they want that information ASAP, because they need to board up the rest of the buildings this investor owned. I’m talking about houses and offices just abandoned by people who just left, so someone has to deal with that and contact whoever owns what they left behind. And this is the mild shit.
If you had to deal with any of this shit and talk to real people, there is no way you would be cheering it on like you do.
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As much as I hate paper pushing, anarchy sounds rather worse.
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On February 07 2018 00:12 Plansix wrote:
GH, I don’t give a shit about paperwork. That is my job. I’m talking about an abandoned property burning down and the city coming to my firm to find out who owns it because the investor that bought it no longer exists. And they want that information ASAP, because they need to board up the rest of the buildings this investor owned. I’m talking about houses and offices just abandoned by people who just left, so someone has to deal with that and contact whoever owns what they left behind. And this is the mild shit.
If you had to deal with any of this shit and talk to real people, there is no way you would be cheering it on like you do.
lol... Your complaint about an economic implosion is being confident that you'd probably still have a good paying job. That I wouldn't cheer it on if I only knew the suffering it would bring you, since I wouldn't have to deal with the aftermath of an economic implosion.
That is some peak neoliberal shining through.
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Yeah and your paper pushing comments mixed with an utter lack of granularity in terms of what would actually happen during the course of a massive economic downturn is your "I don't actually have any experience with the nuts and bolts of working society" shining through. There's this class-romantic idea that events like the Great Depression operated as a sort of "great equalizer," when in reality, those at the bottom took some of the hardest hits. Maybe such conditions renewed would lead to needed change, but in any event, the fallout would be terrible for everyone such that support for a downturn makes very little sense, moral or otherwise.
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On February 07 2018 00:18 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2018 00:12 Plansix wrote:
GH, I don’t give a shit about paperwork. That is my job. I’m talking about an abandoned property burning down and the city coming to my firm to find out who owns it because the investor that bought it no longer exists. And they want that information ASAP, because they need to board up the rest of the buildings this investor owned. I’m talking about houses and offices just abandoned by people who just left, so someone has to deal with that and contact whoever owns what they left behind. And this is the mild shit.
If you had to deal with any of this shit and talk to real people, there is no way you would be cheering it on like you do. lol... Your complaint about an economic implosion is being confident that you'd probably still have a good paying job. That I wouldn't cheer it on if I only knew the suffering it would bring you, since I wouldn't have to deal with the aftermath of an economic implosion. That is some peak neoliberal shining through.
No really my guy. Last time around it was a real struggle to keep the bills paid and by my wife and I bounced between a couple jobs. But whatever you want to believe.
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On February 07 2018 00:24 farvacola wrote:
Yeah and your paper pushing comments mixed with an utter lack of granularity in terms of what would actually happen during the course of a massive economic downturn is your "I don't actually have any experience with the nuts and bolts of working society" shining through. There's this class-romantic idea that events like the Great Depression operated as a sort of "great equalizer," when in reality, those at the bottom took some of the hardest hits. Maybe such conditions renewed would lead to needed change, but in any event, the fallout would be terrible for everyone such that support for a downturn makes very little sense, moral or otherwise.
Ugh...
I didn't know there was a call for me to granular, I'm not opposed though.
You're attributing something to my comments which I did not say and wouldn't support. I mean the example I gave of beneficiaries of the Great Depression were gold investors, hardly some romantic "great equalizer". As I said before and stand by, it wouldn't be fun (obviously there would be some horrific shit) but some people would come out better off.
So no it wouldn't be terrible for everyone. I think people are also mistaking my acceptance of the inevitability of a significant downturn for me cheering it on.
On February 07 2018 00:24 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2018 00:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 07 2018 00:12 Plansix wrote:
GH, I don’t give a shit about paperwork. That is my job. I’m talking about an abandoned property burning down and the city coming to my firm to find out who owns it because the investor that bought it no longer exists. And they want that information ASAP, because they need to board up the rest of the buildings this investor owned. I’m talking about houses and offices just abandoned by people who just left, so someone has to deal with that and contact whoever owns what they left behind. And this is the mild shit.
If you had to deal with any of this shit and talk to real people, there is no way you would be cheering it on like you do. lol... Your complaint about an economic implosion is being confident that you'd probably still have a good paying job. That I wouldn't cheer it on if I only knew the suffering it would bring you, since I wouldn't have to deal with the aftermath of an economic implosion. That is some peak neoliberal shining through. No really my guy. Last time around it was a real struggle to keep the bills paid and by my wife and I bounced between a couple jobs. But whatever you want to believe.
Which is a far more reasonable argument than the one about your job that you were making prior to this.
EDIT: I'm sincerely hoping and going to presume you mean "offline" when you said "real people".
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On February 06 2018 23:32 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2018 23:16 Plansix wrote:They could celebrate right up until the next pay period, when they would find out their employer couldn’t make pay roll. I’m no fan of Wall Street, but an economic implosion isn’t good for anyone. On February 06 2018 23:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 06 2018 21:40 mustaju wrote:
Fortunately, that "DOW joans" tweet is fake. Unfortunately, the "not clapping for me could be called treason, why not?" one is not. The state of political discourse looks very hard to fix right now, and not a lot of people care about fixing it right now.
If I had to guess, an optimistic timeline for centrists goes like this:
8 years to fix the institutional damage Trump has done.
8 years of bipartisan government with a conscious goal to strengthen the center. Is it? Should have checked, my sincere apologies to everyone here. I get mad when people transmit fake stuff without checking, that’s a lesson in humility. To be fair, the dude who faked it said he should have known better given how stupid all of Trump’s previous tweets were and how hard it is to check tweets by date. Most Americans don't have employers. Economic implosions aren't fun but they have beneficiaries, particularly on a longer horizon.
If something extremely negative happens to even 10% of the population, it is basically a catastrophe because of secondary effects. The way you describe these end of days scenarios sounds very similar to the supposed holy war radical Muslims condition themselves for. I forget what it's called, but I remember a dude on another forum who talked about it like it was going to be the best thing ever. It's like you look forward to some ultimate, bloody revolution against banks. Sometimes it is unclear if you actually want something like that to happen or you're just saying "yeah well it would serve them right!".
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The reason I cited my work is that the problems created by a recession will find me. I have no idea how my wife and I will fair if a recessions, we could be fine. But I don’t want to deal with haggling someone’s through a probate case because the recession motivated them to check out early. I like my job boring and without human drama.
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On February 07 2018 00:33 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2018 00:24 farvacola wrote:
Yeah and your paper pushing comments mixed with an utter lack of granularity in terms of what would actually happen during the course of a massive economic downturn is your "I don't actually have any experience with the nuts and bolts of working society" shining through. There's this class-romantic idea that events like the Great Depression operated as a sort of "great equalizer," when in reality, those at the bottom took some of the hardest hits. Maybe such conditions renewed would lead to needed change, but in any event, the fallout would be terrible for everyone such that support for a downturn makes very little sense, moral or otherwise. Ugh... I didn't know there was a call for me to granular, I'm not opposed though. You're attributing something to my comments which I did not say and wouldn't support. I mean the example I gave of beneficiaries of the Great Depression were gold investors, hardly some romantic "great equalizer". As I said before and stand by, it wouldn't be fun (obviously there would be some horrific shit) but some people would come out better off. So no it wouldn't be terrible for everyone. I think people are also mistaking my acceptance of the inevitability of a significant downturn for me cheering it on. Show nested quote +On February 07 2018 00:24 Plansix wrote:On February 07 2018 00:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 07 2018 00:12 Plansix wrote:
GH, I don’t give a shit about paperwork. That is my job. I’m talking about an abandoned property burning down and the city coming to my firm to find out who owns it because the investor that bought it no longer exists. And they want that information ASAP, because they need to board up the rest of the buildings this investor owned. I’m talking about houses and offices just abandoned by people who just left, so someone has to deal with that and contact whoever owns what they left behind. And this is the mild shit.
If you had to deal with any of this shit and talk to real people, there is no way you would be cheering it on like you do. lol... Your complaint about an economic implosion is being confident that you'd probably still have a good paying job. That I wouldn't cheer it on if I only knew the suffering it would bring you, since I wouldn't have to deal with the aftermath of an economic implosion. That is some peak neoliberal shining through. No really my guy. Last time around it was a real struggle to keep the bills paid and by my wife and I bounced between a couple jobs. But whatever you want to believe. Which is a far more reasonable argument than the one about your job that you were making prior to this. EDIT: I'm sincerely hoping and going to presume you mean "offline" when you said "real people".
Its wont be fun but some people will come out better off. Yeah, people at the top who can play the crash for profit. I don't see the middle classes and lower come out on top of a new great depression.
If I remember right the last depression we are just coming out of saw the rich benefit and recovered way more. How is that going to be different next time?
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The Obama clone they were trying to manufacture during the 2012 DNC?
I doubt he’ll gain much traction.
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On February 07 2018 01:00 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2018 00:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 07 2018 00:24 farvacola wrote:
Yeah and your paper pushing comments mixed with an utter lack of granularity in terms of what would actually happen during the course of a massive economic downturn is your "I don't actually have any experience with the nuts and bolts of working society" shining through. There's this class-romantic idea that events like the Great Depression operated as a sort of "great equalizer," when in reality, those at the bottom took some of the hardest hits. Maybe such conditions renewed would lead to needed change, but in any event, the fallout would be terrible for everyone such that support for a downturn makes very little sense, moral or otherwise. Ugh... I didn't know there was a call for me to granular, I'm not opposed though. You're attributing something to my comments which I did not say and wouldn't support. I mean the example I gave of beneficiaries of the Great Depression were gold investors, hardly some romantic "great equalizer". As I said before and stand by, it wouldn't be fun (obviously there would be some horrific shit) but some people would come out better off. So no it wouldn't be terrible for everyone. I think people are also mistaking my acceptance of the inevitability of a significant downturn for me cheering it on. On February 07 2018 00:24 Plansix wrote:On February 07 2018 00:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 07 2018 00:12 Plansix wrote:
GH, I don’t give a shit about paperwork. That is my job. I’m talking about an abandoned property burning down and the city coming to my firm to find out who owns it because the investor that bought it no longer exists. And they want that information ASAP, because they need to board up the rest of the buildings this investor owned. I’m talking about houses and offices just abandoned by people who just left, so someone has to deal with that and contact whoever owns what they left behind. And this is the mild shit.
If you had to deal with any of this shit and talk to real people, there is no way you would be cheering it on like you do. lol... Your complaint about an economic implosion is being confident that you'd probably still have a good paying job. That I wouldn't cheer it on if I only knew the suffering it would bring you, since I wouldn't have to deal with the aftermath of an economic implosion. That is some peak neoliberal shining through. No really my guy. Last time around it was a real struggle to keep the bills paid and by my wife and I bounced between a couple jobs. But whatever you want to believe. Which is a far more reasonable argument than the one about your job that you were making prior to this. EDIT: I'm sincerely hoping and going to presume you mean "offline" when you said "real people". Its wont be fun but some people will come out better off. Yeah, people at the top who can play the crash for profit. I don't see the middle classes and lower come out on top of a new great depression. If I remember right the last depression we are just coming out of saw the rich benefit and recovered way more. How is that going to be different next time?
It wasn't exactly the rich people in the bread lines.
One of the nice things about being rich - barring literal proletariat revolution - is that you're pretty well insulated from an economic downturn. And if the revolution does happen, then you take your helicopter to the airport to your private jet and live off your offshore accounts until it's safe to come back, or die of old age in a luxury villa in Italy or something.
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Has been pointed out and I apologized for posting it. Errare humanum est. Should have fact checked my shit.
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so whats all this talk about an economic implosion, isnt this just a natural market correction following many months of aggressive growth?
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On February 06 2018 23:45 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2018 23:38 Velr wrote:
But most are employes.
Do i understand you wrong or are. Youbasically arguing for mass poverty that leads into some revolution as a long term benefit? GH is cheering on the collapse because he doesn’t have to deal with the aftermath. As someone who will if I remain in my current line of work, I’m not excited. The first great recession was not great. I don’t want to see it happen with these indifferent assholes in charge.
I think every armchair or real revolutionary is cheering for the world going to the shitter because the glorious dawn that comes after everyone has suffered immensely will make it all worth it. Better to see everything burn that the status quo because a radiant new world will rise from the ashes.
Then again, i have tried to convince GH that when the world gets shittier it gets shittier and when people suffer, people suffer. Cheering for economic collapse so you can have your revolution reminds me of the worst hours of the 20th century revolutionary madnesses.
But hey, the world got so much better after the 1929 crisis. Wall Street and the horrific oligarchic sustem of the 20’s crashed, but in the aftermath the world probably became a better place and... OH GOD!!
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On February 07 2018 00:45 Plansix wrote:
The reason I cited my work is that the problems created by a recession will find me. I have no idea how my wife and I will fair if a recessions, we could be fine. But I don’t want to deal with haggling someone’s through a probate case because the recession motivated them to check out early. I like my job boring and without human drama.
They would find most people (in ways much worse than a shitty time at work due to the ensuing chaos), including myself, no idea why you suggested otherwise in the first place.
On February 07 2018 01:00 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2018 00:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 07 2018 00:24 farvacola wrote:
Yeah and your paper pushing comments mixed with an utter lack of granularity in terms of what would actually happen during the course of a massive economic downturn is your "I don't actually have any experience with the nuts and bolts of working society" shining through. There's this class-romantic idea that events like the Great Depression operated as a sort of "great equalizer," when in reality, those at the bottom took some of the hardest hits. Maybe such conditions renewed would lead to needed change, but in any event, the fallout would be terrible for everyone such that support for a downturn makes very little sense, moral or otherwise. Ugh... I didn't know there was a call for me to granular, I'm not opposed though. You're attributing something to my comments which I did not say and wouldn't support. I mean the example I gave of beneficiaries of the Great Depression were gold investors, hardly some romantic "great equalizer". As I said before and stand by, it wouldn't be fun (obviously there would be some horrific shit) but some people would come out better off. So no it wouldn't be terrible for everyone. I think people are also mistaking my acceptance of the inevitability of a significant downturn for me cheering it on. On February 07 2018 00:24 Plansix wrote:On February 07 2018 00:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 07 2018 00:12 Plansix wrote:
GH, I don’t give a shit about paperwork. That is my job. I’m talking about an abandoned property burning down and the city coming to my firm to find out who owns it because the investor that bought it no longer exists. And they want that information ASAP, because they need to board up the rest of the buildings this investor owned. I’m talking about houses and offices just abandoned by people who just left, so someone has to deal with that and contact whoever owns what they left behind. And this is the mild shit.
If you had to deal with any of this shit and talk to real people, there is no way you would be cheering it on like you do. lol... Your complaint about an economic implosion is being confident that you'd probably still have a good paying job. That I wouldn't cheer it on if I only knew the suffering it would bring you, since I wouldn't have to deal with the aftermath of an economic implosion. That is some peak neoliberal shining through. No really my guy. Last time around it was a real struggle to keep the bills paid and by my wife and I bounced between a couple jobs. But whatever you want to believe. Which is a far more reasonable argument than the one about your job that you were making prior to this. EDIT: I'm sincerely hoping and going to presume you mean "offline" when you said "real people". Its wont be fun but some people will come out better off. Yeah, people at the top who can play the crash for profit. I don't see the middle classes and lower come out on top of a new great depression. If I remember right the last depression we are just coming out of saw the rich benefit and recovered way more. How is that going to be different next time?
What part of your post do you think I disagree with?
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On February 07 2018 01:19 Aveng3r wrote:
so whats all this talk about an economic implosion, isnt this just a natural market correction following many months of aggressive growth?
yes it is; just a correction.
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EPT
