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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On January 18 2018 01:40 Mohdoo wrote: So what stops the FBI from calling him in? Perhaps already having an arrangement with them? He was reportedly already ordered to testify to a grand jury, but recently struck a deal to be interviewed by Mueller's team instead. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On January 18 2018 01:17 Plansix wrote: I have no idea. The House is going to make him testify or invoke the privilege specifically so it can be challenged in court. Sessions pulled this trick before the Senate and I think the White House is going to continue to pull it until they are stopped. As for Bannon, I don’t know. But I am sure Trump’s allies have plenty of ammo they could use to hurt Bannon in ways we can’t even think of. I wonder if bannon is still holding out to protect his own brand. Ratting out the Whitehouse probably sinks his own brand, so he might not be willing to burn that bridge, even if he hates the white house. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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mozoku
United States708 Posts
On January 18 2018 00:59 IyMoon wrote: Nah, this is still on the dems. How can you be expected to get your whole party to vote for something? Nah this is 100% on the dems /s I'm not sure how it makes more sense to blame a small faction of dissenting Republicans willing to shut down the government than the entire Democratic party. Is partisanship supposed to be a virtue now? What kind of mental gymnastics is this? I blame all congressmen voting to shut down our government and hurt the country. Last time that was the GOP. This time it's both parties, but mostly Dems. Hence they get a larger share of the blame in my book. I'll grant you that I don't believe the GOP would be any better if the situations were reversed, but that still doesn't make this a good look for the self-proclaimed "party of adults." Obviously this assumes the shutdown actually occurs, so I'll reserve judgment until that actually happens. | ||
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IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
On January 18 2018 01:59 mozoku wrote: I'm not sure how it makes more sense to blame a small faction of dissenting Republicans willing to shut down the government than the entire Democratic party. Is partisanship supposed to be a virtue now? What kind of mental gymnastics is this? I blame all congressmen voting to shut down our government and hurt the country. Last time that was the GOP. This time it's both parties, but mostly Dems. Hence they get a larger share of the blame in my book. I'll grant you that I don't believe the GOP would be any better if the situations were reversed, but that still doesn't make this a good look for the self-proclaimed "party of adults." Obviously this assumes the shutdown actually occurs, so I'll reserve judgment until that actually happens. How can you blame the dems? They sent trump a deal that he said he would sign, and then he didn't. You can't just give people some conditions, have them meet them, then blow that shit up and go it is their fault If the dems were in control of one house, I would blame them, but at this point how can you blame the minority for not going along when you can't even get the majority to go along. Dems are not needed to avoid a shut down | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15742 Posts
On January 18 2018 01:43 Tachion wrote: He was reportedly already ordered to testify to a grand jury, but recently struck a deal to be interviewed by Mueller's team instead. Oh, sweet. So then none of this matters, right? If anything, the less congress knows, the better. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 18 2018 01:59 mozoku wrote: I'm not sure how it makes more sense to blame a small faction of dissenting Republicans willing to shut down the government than the entire Democratic party. Is partisanship supposed to be a virtue now? What kind of mental gymnastics is this? I blame all congressmen voting to shut down our government and hurt the country. Last time that was the GOP. This time it's both parties, but mostly Dems. Hence they get a larger share of the blame in my book. I'll grant you that I don't believe the GOP would be any better if the situations were reversed, but that still doesn't make this a good look for the self-proclaimed "party of adults." Obviously this assumes the shutdown actually occurs, so I'll reserve judgment until that actually happens. The real person to blame is the President, who blindsided both parties by saying he would sign anything one day and then going on a racist rant when the deal was presented to him. The Democrats are being told by their voters not to give an inch after those comments and the Republicans are pushing for a harder line on immigration. He backed both sides into a corner where they cannot compromise by changing his mind. This is a case of Trump not understanding that politician’s word needs to be their bond. If they say they are going to do something, they need to do it. We joke about them being dishonest, but they can’t lie to each other. It doesn’t work with lawyers and it doesn’t work in politics. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 18 2018 02:03 Mohdoo wrote: Oh, sweet. So then none of this matters, right? If anything, the less congress knows, the better. It matters a lot. If he doesn’t invoke privilege with the FBI(and there are legal questions the president can do that through a witness), Bannon can’t use it again before the House when he is called back. Executive Privilege can’t be applied selectively depending on who is asking. Second, he didn’t invoke executive privilege. He just didn’t answer questions, which is not the same thing. That is why the House is going to call him back. But they might wait until after the FBI deals with him. But the long and short of it is that the White House isn’t playing by the same rules as everyone else and that plan has limits. There is only so many time they can thumb their nose at congress before some Republicans have had enough of it. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15742 Posts
On January 18 2018 01:59 mozoku wrote: I'm not sure how it makes more sense to blame a small faction of dissenting Republicans willing to shut down the government than the entire Democratic party. Is partisanship supposed to be a virtue now? What kind of mental gymnastics is this? I blame all congressmen voting to shut down our government and hurt the country. Last time that was the GOP. This time it's both parties, but mostly Dems. Hence they get a larger share of the blame in my book. I'll grant you that I don't believe the GOP would be any better if the situations were reversed, but that still doesn't make this a good look for the self-proclaimed "party of adults." Obviously this assumes the shutdown actually occurs, so I'll reserve judgment until that actually happens. Who do you think has more common ground with a GOP budget? Members of the GOP, or the democratic party? These dissenting members of the GOP are basically saying either they get 100% of what they want or they walk. Democrats would be lucky to get 50% of anything they want out of this. Our 2 parties are extremely polarized right now. Wondering why democrats aren't on board for a GOP budget is silly when there is so little common ground nowadays. | ||
KwarK
United States43705 Posts
Sometimes I feel like this White House isn't really trying. | ||
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IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
On January 18 2018 02:22 KwarK wrote: In other news Trump's physical has reported that his old age growth spurt has made him a few inches taller, neatly bringing his BMI down from morbidly obese. Sometimes I feel like this White House isn't really trying. there is a picture floating around of 6'3 trump standing next to 6'1 obama and being the same height. It must be a weird trick of the eye | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On January 18 2018 01:59 mozoku wrote: I'm not sure how it makes more sense to blame a small faction of dissenting Republicans willing to shut down the government than the entire Democratic party. Is partisanship supposed to be a virtue now? What kind of mental gymnastics is this? I blame all congressmen voting to shut down our government and hurt the country. Last time that was the GOP. This time it's both parties, but mostly Dems. Hence they get a larger share of the blame in my book. I'll grant you that I don't believe the GOP would be any better if the situations were reversed, but that still doesn't make this a good look for the self-proclaimed "party of adults." Obviously this assumes the shutdown actually occurs, so I'll reserve judgment until that actually happens. I don't blame a small faction of the republicans; I blame the entire republican party. They're the one with the majorities. if you're against congressmen voting to hurt the country, then there's a very long list of republican violations to address. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15742 Posts
On January 18 2018 02:22 KwarK wrote: In other news Trump's physical has reported that his old age growth spurt has made him a few inches taller, neatly bringing his BMI down from morbidly obese. Sometimes I feel like this White House isn't really trying. I don't see why they are even doing this. All it does is add credibility to the theories going around. No matter how you slice it, those numbers are not accurate. They showed us they are willing to lie about his health. | ||
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ChristianS
United States3304 Posts
On January 18 2018 01:59 mozoku wrote: I'm not sure how it makes more sense to blame a small faction of dissenting Republicans willing to shut down the government than the entire Democratic party. Is partisanship supposed to be a virtue now? What kind of mental gymnastics is this? I blame all congressmen voting to shut down our government and hurt the country. Last time that was the GOP. This time it's both parties, but mostly Dems. Hence they get a larger share of the blame in my book. I'll grant you that I don't believe the GOP would be any better if the situations were reversed, but that still doesn't make this a good look for the self-proclaimed "party of adults." Obviously this assumes the shutdown actually occurs, so I'll reserve judgment until that actually happens. How can you judge who is at fault without looking at the deal being rejected? Suppose Democrats put together a "deal" consisting of: -universal healthcare, universal basic income -100% marginal tax rate over $100,000 -National gun registry created immediately -Trump is impeached All D's vote for it, All R's vote against, the government shuts down. Do we blame the Republicans for voting against the deal, thus forcing a shutdown? Assigning blame should be done based on who is more insistent on getting policy concessions, because they were more willing to risk a shutdown to get what they want. If the Republicans insist on a deal so far right that they can't even get all the Republican votes, let alone Democrats, it sounds like they're the ones more insistent on policy concessions. That said, I haven't seen the terms of this deal that Democrats and a few Republicans are apparently rejecting. From what I had seen, Democrats want: -legislative protection for DACA recipients (which supposedly Dems, many Republicans, and Trump all want) -CHIP funding (which supposedly Democrats, Republicans, and Trump all want) -otherwise clean budget extension Republicans apparently want: -more money for border security (which Republicans and Trump want, and Democrats seem willing to accept) -$19B for a border wall (which Republicans and Trump want, and Democrats vehemently don't want) -otherwise clean budget extension The deal I saw had both the Democrats' wishlist items, border security, something like $300M (iirc) for "fence construction" or something, and it funded the government. Trump initially supported the deal, now it sounds like he doesn't. If Republicans reject that deal because they want policy concessions, and then the government shuts down, it sounds like blame pretty naturally goes to the Republicans. Of course all that's off the top of my head, so I might have gotten something wrong. Have Republicans put together an alternate deal I haven't seen? | ||
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KwarK
United States43705 Posts
On January 18 2018 02:25 Mohdoo wrote: I don't see why they are even doing this. All it does is add credibility to the theories going around. No matter how you slice it, those numbers are not accurate. They showed us they are willing to lie about his health. It's not even the same height they reported during the campaign. They're literally going with old age growth spurt. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22143 Posts
On January 18 2018 02:25 Mohdoo wrote: I don't see why they are even doing this. All it does is add credibility to the theories going around. No matter how you slice it, those numbers are not accurate. They showed us they are willing to lie about his health. Because Trump is a massive Narcissist and he cannot accept that he is shorter then Obama, or Obese, or have any other defect at all. Ever. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On January 18 2018 02:23 IyMoon wrote: there is a picture floating around of 6'3 trump standing next to 6'1 obama and being the same height. It must be a weird trick of the eye | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On January 18 2018 02:26 KwarK wrote: It's not even the same height they reported during the campaign. They're literally going with old age growth spurt. what height did they report during the campaign? | ||
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ChristianS
United States3304 Posts
On January 18 2018 02:26 KwarK wrote: It's not even the same height they reported during the campaign. They're literally going with old age growth spurt. I'm confused. This is the September 2016 one, no? https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/16/us/politics/donald-trump-health.html?referer= And this is the most recent one: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-doctor-details-trump-health First says 6'3", 236 pounds. Second says 6'3", 239 pounds. That doesn't mean they're not lying, but where's the height change stuff coming from? Edit: I can understand the impulse to distrust that release, considering all the weird superlatives and politically convenient predictions (and Trump's general lack of credibility). I just worry this stuff is going a little in this direction: http://www.thebeatlesneverexisted.com/Heights/ | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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