|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On January 03 2018 10:14 micronesia wrote:
Danglers, while few users will be surprised, it's quite telling that you danced around the questions again without answering, all while throwing shot after shot at me even though I haven't really disagreed with you about your overarching criticism of liberals creating the current environment. When you are willing to actually answer my questions I'll have to change my opinion that you don't have conversations here in good faith.
Here we are again. I really don’t think you have special privilege to butt in and say I’m being unfair to liberals (assaigning them undue blame for the circumstances behind Trump’s election). You demand I answer to the spread of fault. Bahh. Go ahead and say you breathe the rarified air and divine my intentions to absolve Trump voters. I hold that you’ve said some very silly things and try to call others to account. Give a more full explanation next time. All this sophomoric focus on your perceptions is unbecoming of you.
|
On January 03 2018 10:14 crms wrote:Don't worry guys he's just trying to trigger those sensitive libtards lul, it's completely fine for him to behave like this - just ignore it! Show nested quote +On January 03 2018 10:13 Gorsameth wrote:On January 03 2018 10:08 Danglars wrote:On January 03 2018 09:57 micronesia wrote:On January 03 2018 09:52 Danglars wrote:On January 03 2018 09:38 micronesia wrote:On January 03 2018 09:28 Danglars wrote:On January 03 2018 09:14 micronesia wrote:
Danglers is there anything in this universe that you don't blame the liberals for? It's the liberals' fault Trump was elected (vice the people who voted for him). It's the liberals' fault Trump calls Kim Jong Un little rocket man (because they get triggered by it). What happened to the principle of personal responsibility?
Perhaps you would say it's Trump's fault he made the tweet, but the liberals simply have the power to prevent it too... I guess that would be a bit more reasonable... not sure if that's where you were going then. If I had blinked, I would’ve missed all the nuance being thrown out the window. Yes, if you narrowly focus Trump with your permanent horse blinders, he’s ridiculous and blameworthy. But the overall arc of history doesn’t allow for a reality TV star to accidentally ascend to the presidency. Oops. Better focus in on how his behavior proceeds from his will to that behavior!!! Funny how this doesn't address my thought that the blame may lay more with the people who voted for him than the liberals who presumably didn't. You turned it on to me being at fault, presumably because you think I'm a liberal...? Clearly, the best action today is to divine the amount of blame I assign to his voters compared to his non-voters. You did read the post you responded to, right? I say you’re pathetic and you’re better than this. And you can spell my name properly lol. I just did it to trigger you. If you stop getting triggered perhaps I won't do it. It is clearly your fault, not mine. We should elect you president with this much understanding of the status quo. Wait, micronesia demands I ask you to explain how triggering others is irrelevant compared to your choice to trigger. What do you have to answer yourself? Are you not guilty of choosing to misspell, or did someone else force you to do it? Are you at all interested in more than the trollish “Trump’s bad, let’s all chant it until 2020” until it’s all gone. Because I’ve twice insulted Trump in past posts today and maybe that’s internet invisible ink to you.
Furthermore, I’ve half a mind to adopt your own myopic focus until smelling salts revive your broader understanding. Why are you so intent on ignoring history to blame Trump for the worlds ills? Is it deliberate or accidental? This has nothing to do with ignoring history. I'm not saying the democratic party doesn't also have their share of blame in whatever you are talking about. I'm just saying you are acting like the liberals are more to blame than others who should quite obviously be more to blame. Calling me pathetic is also rather telling, even if you hedged a bit with "you're better than this." I am acting like no such thing. This whole thread is full of valid criticism of the president. Only your biases demand that I’m criticizing triggered liberals too hard for their due. Your plumb line is faulty. You can’t determine how much outrage is feeding the Trump phenomenon. You’re not properly judging how much criticism of his critics is warranted. Let's simplify this, if you will. I will ask just a couple of questions that you have danced around in the past and then claimed you didn't dance around them, so if I'm wrong about that you can very easily prove me wrong with just a few typed words. Recognizing more than one party may be at least partly responsible for a given act or situation, 1) Who is more responsible for the fact that Trump was elected, the people who voted for him, or the liberals in the U.S.? 2) Who is more responsible for Trump's tweeting behavior currently referring to Kim John Un as little rocket man, liberals because they get triggered, or the people who voted for Trump knowing this type of behavior was going to be normal with Trump elected? You keep saying I'm not reading or not understanding you, so here's a chance to eliminate misunderstanding and miscommunication. Ooh so much effort. That’s not a simplification. It’s indulging your conceit that I unjustly blame the wild reactions to Trump for the existence of Trump. You have thus far only showed that you can’t understand how feeding the troll influences the troll to continue. You get Zero until you can admit that the outrage/triggering machine demands more tweets of this nature. Have you ever had a provocateur at any party you’ve attended? I’m starting to doubt your variety of life experience, since you literally only resort to insinuation and not fact. “Just ignore him” is not justifying his existence or his life choices. It’s a rational response. But you’ve repeatedly and quizzically insinuated the contrary. It’s baffling, to be honest. Still ignoring the simply question I see. Everyone is responsible for the US turning into the laughing stock of the world but you. Show nested quote +On January 03 2018 10:14 micronesia wrote:
Danglers, while few users will be surprised, it's quite telling that you danced around the questions again without answering, all while throwing shot after shot at me even though I haven't really disagreed with you about your overarching criticism of liberals creating the current environment. When you are willing to actually answer my questions I'll have to change my opinion that you don't have conversations here in good faith. Were either of you really expecting a proper response? I know it's a new year but were you expecting him to change whatsoever? I'm constantly shocked at the level people engage with him. I assume it's because you're all bored at work with nothing better to do? I used to give him and others the benefit of the doubt but that ran out long ago. I think specifically it was around when Yango gave him a direct example (after he requested it) and then never responded only to goad more bullshit with other users.
Were you expecting the outrage at Trump persisting in using “rocket man” to generate anything else but repeated use? Please wait a few minutes and consider before responding.
|
|
|
On January 03 2018 10:32 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2018 10:14 crms wrote:Don't worry guys he's just trying to trigger those sensitive libtards lul, it's completely fine for him to behave like this - just ignore it! On January 03 2018 10:13 Gorsameth wrote:On January 03 2018 10:08 Danglars wrote:On January 03 2018 09:57 micronesia wrote:On January 03 2018 09:52 Danglars wrote:On January 03 2018 09:38 micronesia wrote:On January 03 2018 09:28 Danglars wrote:On January 03 2018 09:14 micronesia wrote:
Danglers is there anything in this universe that you don't blame the liberals for? It's the liberals' fault Trump was elected (vice the people who voted for him). It's the liberals' fault Trump calls Kim Jong Un little rocket man (because they get triggered by it). What happened to the principle of personal responsibility?
Perhaps you would say it's Trump's fault he made the tweet, but the liberals simply have the power to prevent it too... I guess that would be a bit more reasonable... not sure if that's where you were going then. If I had blinked, I would’ve missed all the nuance being thrown out the window. Yes, if you narrowly focus Trump with your permanent horse blinders, he’s ridiculous and blameworthy. But the overall arc of history doesn’t allow for a reality TV star to accidentally ascend to the presidency. Oops. Better focus in on how his behavior proceeds from his will to that behavior!!! Funny how this doesn't address my thought that the blame may lay more with the people who voted for him than the liberals who presumably didn't. You turned it on to me being at fault, presumably because you think I'm a liberal...? Clearly, the best action today is to divine the amount of blame I assign to his voters compared to his non-voters. You did read the post you responded to, right? I say you’re pathetic and you’re better than this. And you can spell my name properly lol. I just did it to trigger you. If you stop getting triggered perhaps I won't do it. It is clearly your fault, not mine. We should elect you president with this much understanding of the status quo. Wait, micronesia demands I ask you to explain how triggering others is irrelevant compared to your choice to trigger. What do you have to answer yourself? Are you not guilty of choosing to misspell, or did someone else force you to do it? Are you at all interested in more than the trollish “Trump’s bad, let’s all chant it until 2020” until it’s all gone. Because I’ve twice insulted Trump in past posts today and maybe that’s internet invisible ink to you.
Furthermore, I’ve half a mind to adopt your own myopic focus until smelling salts revive your broader understanding. Why are you so intent on ignoring history to blame Trump for the worlds ills? Is it deliberate or accidental? This has nothing to do with ignoring history. I'm not saying the democratic party doesn't also have their share of blame in whatever you are talking about. I'm just saying you are acting like the liberals are more to blame than others who should quite obviously be more to blame. Calling me pathetic is also rather telling, even if you hedged a bit with "you're better than this." I am acting like no such thing. This whole thread is full of valid criticism of the president. Only your biases demand that I’m criticizing triggered liberals too hard for their due. Your plumb line is faulty. You can’t determine how much outrage is feeding the Trump phenomenon. You’re not properly judging how much criticism of his critics is warranted. Let's simplify this, if you will. I will ask just a couple of questions that you have danced around in the past and then claimed you didn't dance around them, so if I'm wrong about that you can very easily prove me wrong with just a few typed words. Recognizing more than one party may be at least partly responsible for a given act or situation, 1) Who is more responsible for the fact that Trump was elected, the people who voted for him, or the liberals in the U.S.? 2) Who is more responsible for Trump's tweeting behavior currently referring to Kim John Un as little rocket man, liberals because they get triggered, or the people who voted for Trump knowing this type of behavior was going to be normal with Trump elected? You keep saying I'm not reading or not understanding you, so here's a chance to eliminate misunderstanding and miscommunication. Ooh so much effort. That’s not a simplification. It’s indulging your conceit that I unjustly blame the wild reactions to Trump for the existence of Trump. You have thus far only showed that you can’t understand how feeding the troll influences the troll to continue. You get Zero until you can admit that the outrage/triggering machine demands more tweets of this nature. Have you ever had a provocateur at any party you’ve attended? I’m starting to doubt your variety of life experience, since you literally only resort to insinuation and not fact. “Just ignore him” is not justifying his existence or his life choices. It’s a rational response. But you’ve repeatedly and quizzically insinuated the contrary. It’s baffling, to be honest. Still ignoring the simply question I see. Everyone is responsible for the US turning into the laughing stock of the world but you. On January 03 2018 10:14 micronesia wrote:
Danglers, while few users will be surprised, it's quite telling that you danced around the questions again without answering, all while throwing shot after shot at me even though I haven't really disagreed with you about your overarching criticism of liberals creating the current environment. When you are willing to actually answer my questions I'll have to change my opinion that you don't have conversations here in good faith. Were either of you really expecting a proper response? I know it's a new year but were you expecting him to change whatsoever? I'm constantly shocked at the level people engage with him. I assume it's because you're all bored at work with nothing better to do? I used to give him and others the benefit of the doubt but that ran out long ago. I think specifically it was around when Yango gave him a direct example (after he requested it) and then never responded only to goad more bullshit with other users. I think ignore features are quite a healthy thing for discussion boards. Being able to opt IN to certain discussions, rather than having to consciously opt out (this may be responsible for the noted surprising levels of engagement) is great. And people just goading and never engaging in good faith also just get less attention and head space. But alas we do not have this 
You seem to enjoy referring obliquely to other discussions, so I would hope any changes do not deprive you of your enjoyment. Truly, you argue against yourself.
|
On January 03 2018 12:28 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2018 10:14 crms wrote:Don't worry guys he's just trying to trigger those sensitive libtards lul, it's completely fine for him to behave like this - just ignore it! On January 03 2018 10:13 Gorsameth wrote:On January 03 2018 10:08 Danglars wrote:On January 03 2018 09:57 micronesia wrote:On January 03 2018 09:52 Danglars wrote:On January 03 2018 09:38 micronesia wrote:On January 03 2018 09:28 Danglars wrote:On January 03 2018 09:14 micronesia wrote:
Danglers is there anything in this universe that you don't blame the liberals for? It's the liberals' fault Trump was elected (vice the people who voted for him). It's the liberals' fault Trump calls Kim Jong Un little rocket man (because they get triggered by it). What happened to the principle of personal responsibility?
Perhaps you would say it's Trump's fault he made the tweet, but the liberals simply have the power to prevent it too... I guess that would be a bit more reasonable... not sure if that's where you were going then. If I had blinked, I would’ve missed all the nuance being thrown out the window. Yes, if you narrowly focus Trump with your permanent horse blinders, he’s ridiculous and blameworthy. But the overall arc of history doesn’t allow for a reality TV star to accidentally ascend to the presidency. Oops. Better focus in on how his behavior proceeds from his will to that behavior!!! Funny how this doesn't address my thought that the blame may lay more with the people who voted for him than the liberals who presumably didn't. You turned it on to me being at fault, presumably because you think I'm a liberal...? Clearly, the best action today is to divine the amount of blame I assign to his voters compared to his non-voters. You did read the post you responded to, right? I say you’re pathetic and you’re better than this. And you can spell my name properly lol. I just did it to trigger you. If you stop getting triggered perhaps I won't do it. It is clearly your fault, not mine. We should elect you president with this much understanding of the status quo. Wait, micronesia demands I ask you to explain how triggering others is irrelevant compared to your choice to trigger. What do you have to answer yourself? Are you not guilty of choosing to misspell, or did someone else force you to do it? Are you at all interested in more than the trollish “Trump’s bad, let’s all chant it until 2020” until it’s all gone. Because I’ve twice insulted Trump in past posts today and maybe that’s internet invisible ink to you.
Furthermore, I’ve half a mind to adopt your own myopic focus until smelling salts revive your broader understanding. Why are you so intent on ignoring history to blame Trump for the worlds ills? Is it deliberate or accidental? This has nothing to do with ignoring history. I'm not saying the democratic party doesn't also have their share of blame in whatever you are talking about. I'm just saying you are acting like the liberals are more to blame than others who should quite obviously be more to blame. Calling me pathetic is also rather telling, even if you hedged a bit with "you're better than this." I am acting like no such thing. This whole thread is full of valid criticism of the president. Only your biases demand that I’m criticizing triggered liberals too hard for their due. Your plumb line is faulty. You can’t determine how much outrage is feeding the Trump phenomenon. You’re not properly judging how much criticism of his critics is warranted. Let's simplify this, if you will. I will ask just a couple of questions that you have danced around in the past and then claimed you didn't dance around them, so if I'm wrong about that you can very easily prove me wrong with just a few typed words. Recognizing more than one party may be at least partly responsible for a given act or situation, 1) Who is more responsible for the fact that Trump was elected, the people who voted for him, or the liberals in the U.S.? 2) Who is more responsible for Trump's tweeting behavior currently referring to Kim John Un as little rocket man, liberals because they get triggered, or the people who voted for Trump knowing this type of behavior was going to be normal with Trump elected? You keep saying I'm not reading or not understanding you, so here's a chance to eliminate misunderstanding and miscommunication. Ooh so much effort. That’s not a simplification. It’s indulging your conceit that I unjustly blame the wild reactions to Trump for the existence of Trump. You have thus far only showed that you can’t understand how feeding the troll influences the troll to continue. You get Zero until you can admit that the outrage/triggering machine demands more tweets of this nature. Have you ever had a provocateur at any party you’ve attended? I’m starting to doubt your variety of life experience, since you literally only resort to insinuation and not fact. “Just ignore him” is not justifying his existence or his life choices. It’s a rational response. But you’ve repeatedly and quizzically insinuated the contrary. It’s baffling, to be honest. Still ignoring the simply question I see. Everyone is responsible for the US turning into the laughing stock of the world but you. On January 03 2018 10:14 micronesia wrote:
Danglers, while few users will be surprised, it's quite telling that you danced around the questions again without answering, all while throwing shot after shot at me even though I haven't really disagreed with you about your overarching criticism of liberals creating the current environment. When you are willing to actually answer my questions I'll have to change my opinion that you don't have conversations here in good faith. Were either of you really expecting a proper response? I know it's a new year but were you expecting him to change whatsoever? I'm constantly shocked at the level people engage with him. I assume it's because you're all bored at work with nothing better to do? I used to give him and others the benefit of the doubt but that ran out long ago. I think specifically it was around when Yango gave him a direct example (after he requested it) and then never responded only to goad more bullshit with other users. Were you expecting the outrage at Trump persisting in using “rocket man” to generate anything else but repeated use? Please wait a few minutes and consider before responding.
When an abused wife expresses to her husband that his abuse is unacceptable, even though all it will accomplish is provoking further abuse, who is at fault and who should change their behaviour?
|
On January 03 2018 11:54 KwarK wrote:
Trump just accused the justice department of working for the state.
The 'deep state'? As far as I can tell that just means the rule of law, so yeah, they're probably in on it 
|
United States24768 Posts
On January 03 2018 12:26 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2018 10:14 micronesia wrote:
Danglers, while few users will be surprised, it's quite telling that you danced around the questions again without answering, all while throwing shot after shot at me even though I haven't really disagreed with you about your overarching criticism of liberals creating the current environment. When you are willing to actually answer my questions I'll have to change my opinion that you don't have conversations here in good faith. Here we are again. I really don’t think you have special privilege to butt in and say I’m being unfair to liberals (assaigning them undue blame for the circumstances behind Trump’s election). You demand I answer to the spread of fault. Bahh. Go ahead and say you breathe the rarified air and divine my intentions to absolve Trump voters. I hold that you’ve said some very silly things and try to call others to account. Give a more full explanation next time. All this sophomoric focus on your perceptions is unbecoming of you.
I think you are just going off the deep end at this point. I acknowledged that we may be miscommunicating and that I may be misunderstanding you so I boiled down my issues to very simple statements. You absolutely refuse to discuss those issues directly. I predicted this. It happened. It happened again. I will restate my concern so you can refuse to take it on a third time.
On January 03 2018 09:57 micronesia wrote:
Recognizing more than one party may be at least partly responsible for a given act or situation,
1) Who is more responsible for the fact that Trump was elected, the people who voted for him, or the liberals in the U.S.?
2) Who is more responsible for Trump's tweeting behavior currently referring to Kim John Un as little rocket man, liberals because they get triggered, or the people who voted for Trump knowing this type of behavior was going to be normal with Trump elected?
Can you address the above without trying to steer the conversation towards my 'special privilege to butt in' and that I've said 'some very silly things' and my 'sophomoric focus on my perceptions'? The answer seems to be no unless you come up with new creative ways to try to twist the issue on to me.
|
CHARLESTON, W.Va. — Coal mining deaths surged in the U.S. in 2017, one year after they hit a record low.
The nation’s coal mines recorded 15 deaths last year, including eight in West Virginia. Kentucky had two deaths, and there were one each in Alabama, Colorado, Montana, Pennsylvania and Wyoming. In 2016 there were eight U.S. coal mine deaths.
West Virginia has led the nation in coal mining deaths in six of the past eight years. That includes 2010, when 29 miners were killed in an explosion at the Upper Big Branch mine in southern West Virginia.
In September, President Trump appointed retired coal company executive David Zatezalo as the new chief of the Mine Safety and Health Administration. Most of the deaths this year occurred before his appointment. The Wheeling resident retired in 2014 as chairman of Rhino Resources.
Zatezalo was narrowly approved by the Senate in November. His appointment was opposed by Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., who said he was not convinced Zatezalo was suited to oversee the federal agency that implements and enforces mine safety laws and standards.
...
Coal mining deaths surge in 2017 after hitting record low - USAToday
|
On January 03 2018 12:53 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2018 12:26 Danglars wrote:On January 03 2018 10:14 micronesia wrote:
Danglers, while few users will be surprised, it's quite telling that you danced around the questions again without answering, all while throwing shot after shot at me even though I haven't really disagreed with you about your overarching criticism of liberals creating the current environment. When you are willing to actually answer my questions I'll have to change my opinion that you don't have conversations here in good faith. Here we are again. I really don’t think you have special privilege to butt in and say I’m being unfair to liberals (assaigning them undue blame for the circumstances behind Trump’s election). You demand I answer to the spread of fault. Bahh. Go ahead and say you breathe the rarified air and divine my intentions to absolve Trump voters. I hold that you’ve said some very silly things and try to call others to account. Give a more full explanation next time. All this sophomoric focus on your perceptions is unbecoming of you. I think you are just going off the deep end at this point. I acknowledged that we may be miscommunicating and that I may be misunderstanding you so I boiled down my issues to very simple statements. You absolutely refuse to discuss those issues directly. I predicted this. It happened. It happened again. I will restate my concern so you can refuse to take it on a third time. Show nested quote +On January 03 2018 09:57 micronesia wrote:
Recognizing more than one party may be at least partly responsible for a given act or situation,
1) Who is more responsible for the fact that Trump was elected, the people who voted for him, or the liberals in the U.S.?
2) Who is more responsible for Trump's tweeting behavior currently referring to Kim John Un as little rocket man, liberals because they get triggered, or the people who voted for Trump knowing this type of behavior was going to be normal with Trump elected? Can you address the above without trying to steer the conversation towards my 'special privilege to butt in' and that I've said 'some very silly things' and my 'sophomoric focus on my perceptions'? The answer seems to be no unless you come up with new creative ways to try to twist the issue on to me.
You're still a little too narrow, as I understand it. Let's go back to why you think advice to not feed the troll constitutes promoting or excusing the troll. You could nominate a great many mundane or stupid ideas that you take away from my posts, but I have no particular reason to humor your delusions. I say this particularly when this forum does some very protracted discussions on FPTP on voting third party or least worst possibilities. Who is more responsible for misspellings, you or the person you wish to trigger?
|
On January 03 2018 12:44 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2018 12:28 Danglars wrote:On January 03 2018 10:14 crms wrote:Don't worry guys he's just trying to trigger those sensitive libtards lul, it's completely fine for him to behave like this - just ignore it! On January 03 2018 10:13 Gorsameth wrote:On January 03 2018 10:08 Danglars wrote:On January 03 2018 09:57 micronesia wrote:On January 03 2018 09:52 Danglars wrote:On January 03 2018 09:38 micronesia wrote:On January 03 2018 09:28 Danglars wrote:On January 03 2018 09:14 micronesia wrote:
Danglers is there anything in this universe that you don't blame the liberals for? It's the liberals' fault Trump was elected (vice the people who voted for him). It's the liberals' fault Trump calls Kim Jong Un little rocket man (because they get triggered by it). What happened to the principle of personal responsibility?
Perhaps you would say it's Trump's fault he made the tweet, but the liberals simply have the power to prevent it too... I guess that would be a bit more reasonable... not sure if that's where you were going then. If I had blinked, I would’ve missed all the nuance being thrown out the window. Yes, if you narrowly focus Trump with your permanent horse blinders, he’s ridiculous and blameworthy. But the overall arc of history doesn’t allow for a reality TV star to accidentally ascend to the presidency. Oops. Better focus in on how his behavior proceeds from his will to that behavior!!! Funny how this doesn't address my thought that the blame may lay more with the people who voted for him than the liberals who presumably didn't. You turned it on to me being at fault, presumably because you think I'm a liberal...? Clearly, the best action today is to divine the amount of blame I assign to his voters compared to his non-voters. You did read the post you responded to, right? I say you’re pathetic and you’re better than this. And you can spell my name properly lol. I just did it to trigger you. If you stop getting triggered perhaps I won't do it. It is clearly your fault, not mine. We should elect you president with this much understanding of the status quo. Wait, micronesia demands I ask you to explain how triggering others is irrelevant compared to your choice to trigger. What do you have to answer yourself? Are you not guilty of choosing to misspell, or did someone else force you to do it? Are you at all interested in more than the trollish “Trump’s bad, let’s all chant it until 2020” until it’s all gone. Because I’ve twice insulted Trump in past posts today and maybe that’s internet invisible ink to you.
Furthermore, I’ve half a mind to adopt your own myopic focus until smelling salts revive your broader understanding. Why are you so intent on ignoring history to blame Trump for the worlds ills? Is it deliberate or accidental? This has nothing to do with ignoring history. I'm not saying the democratic party doesn't also have their share of blame in whatever you are talking about. I'm just saying you are acting like the liberals are more to blame than others who should quite obviously be more to blame. Calling me pathetic is also rather telling, even if you hedged a bit with "you're better than this." I am acting like no such thing. This whole thread is full of valid criticism of the president. Only your biases demand that I’m criticizing triggered liberals too hard for their due. Your plumb line is faulty. You can’t determine how much outrage is feeding the Trump phenomenon. You’re not properly judging how much criticism of his critics is warranted. Let's simplify this, if you will. I will ask just a couple of questions that you have danced around in the past and then claimed you didn't dance around them, so if I'm wrong about that you can very easily prove me wrong with just a few typed words. Recognizing more than one party may be at least partly responsible for a given act or situation, 1) Who is more responsible for the fact that Trump was elected, the people who voted for him, or the liberals in the U.S.? 2) Who is more responsible for Trump's tweeting behavior currently referring to Kim John Un as little rocket man, liberals because they get triggered, or the people who voted for Trump knowing this type of behavior was going to be normal with Trump elected? You keep saying I'm not reading or not understanding you, so here's a chance to eliminate misunderstanding and miscommunication. Ooh so much effort. That’s not a simplification. It’s indulging your conceit that I unjustly blame the wild reactions to Trump for the existence of Trump. You have thus far only showed that you can’t understand how feeding the troll influences the troll to continue. You get Zero until you can admit that the outrage/triggering machine demands more tweets of this nature. Have you ever had a provocateur at any party you’ve attended? I’m starting to doubt your variety of life experience, since you literally only resort to insinuation and not fact. “Just ignore him” is not justifying his existence or his life choices. It’s a rational response. But you’ve repeatedly and quizzically insinuated the contrary. It’s baffling, to be honest. Still ignoring the simply question I see. Everyone is responsible for the US turning into the laughing stock of the world but you. On January 03 2018 10:14 micronesia wrote:
Danglers, while few users will be surprised, it's quite telling that you danced around the questions again without answering, all while throwing shot after shot at me even though I haven't really disagreed with you about your overarching criticism of liberals creating the current environment. When you are willing to actually answer my questions I'll have to change my opinion that you don't have conversations here in good faith. Were either of you really expecting a proper response? I know it's a new year but were you expecting him to change whatsoever? I'm constantly shocked at the level people engage with him. I assume it's because you're all bored at work with nothing better to do? I used to give him and others the benefit of the doubt but that ran out long ago. I think specifically it was around when Yango gave him a direct example (after he requested it) and then never responded only to goad more bullshit with other users. Were you expecting the outrage at Trump persisting in using “rocket man” to generate anything else but repeated use? Please wait a few minutes and consider before responding. When an abused wife expresses to her husband that his abuse is unacceptable, even though all it will accomplish is provoking further abuse, who is at fault and who should change their behaviour?
Here we have it: the ultimate refutation of TeamLiquid trolls. They're just like wife abusers. Wait a second ... I think you might be trying your best at not having a stab at it.
Were you expecting the outrage at Trump persisting in using “rocket man” to generate anything else but repeated use? Please wait a few minutes and consider before responding.
Was that your expectation?
|
The president’s official declarations are mere troll statements.
|
On January 03 2018 13:41 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2018 12:44 Aquanim wrote:On January 03 2018 12:28 Danglars wrote:On January 03 2018 10:14 crms wrote:Don't worry guys he's just trying to trigger those sensitive libtards lul, it's completely fine for him to behave like this - just ignore it! On January 03 2018 10:13 Gorsameth wrote:On January 03 2018 10:08 Danglars wrote:On January 03 2018 09:57 micronesia wrote:On January 03 2018 09:52 Danglars wrote:On January 03 2018 09:38 micronesia wrote:On January 03 2018 09:28 Danglars wrote:
[quote]
If I had blinked, I would’ve missed all the nuance being thrown out the window. Yes, if you narrowly focus Trump with your permanent horse blinders, he’s ridiculous and blameworthy. But the overall arc of history doesn’t allow for a reality TV star to accidentally ascend to the presidency. Oops. Better focus in on how his behavior proceeds from his will to that behavior!!! Funny how this doesn't address my thought that the blame may lay more with the people who voted for him than the liberals who presumably didn't. You turned it on to me being at fault, presumably because you think I'm a liberal...? Clearly, the best action today is to divine the amount of blame I assign to his voters compared to his non-voters. You did read the post you responded to, right? I say you’re pathetic and you’re better than this. And you can spell my name properly lol. I just did it to trigger you. If you stop getting triggered perhaps I won't do it. It is clearly your fault, not mine. We should elect you president with this much understanding of the status quo. Wait, micronesia demands I ask you to explain how triggering others is irrelevant compared to your choice to trigger. What do you have to answer yourself? Are you not guilty of choosing to misspell, or did someone else force you to do it? Are you at all interested in more than the trollish “Trump’s bad, let’s all chant it until 2020” until it’s all gone. Because I’ve twice insulted Trump in past posts today and maybe that’s internet invisible ink to you.
Furthermore, I’ve half a mind to adopt your own myopic focus until smelling salts revive your broader understanding. Why are you so intent on ignoring history to blame Trump for the worlds ills? Is it deliberate or accidental? This has nothing to do with ignoring history. I'm not saying the democratic party doesn't also have their share of blame in whatever you are talking about. I'm just saying you are acting like the liberals are more to blame than others who should quite obviously be more to blame. Calling me pathetic is also rather telling, even if you hedged a bit with "you're better than this." I am acting like no such thing. This whole thread is full of valid criticism of the president. Only your biases demand that I’m criticizing triggered liberals too hard for their due. Your plumb line is faulty. You can’t determine how much outrage is feeding the Trump phenomenon. You’re not properly judging how much criticism of his critics is warranted. Let's simplify this, if you will. I will ask just a couple of questions that you have danced around in the past and then claimed you didn't dance around them, so if I'm wrong about that you can very easily prove me wrong with just a few typed words. Recognizing more than one party may be at least partly responsible for a given act or situation, 1) Who is more responsible for the fact that Trump was elected, the people who voted for him, or the liberals in the U.S.? 2) Who is more responsible for Trump's tweeting behavior currently referring to Kim John Un as little rocket man, liberals because they get triggered, or the people who voted for Trump knowing this type of behavior was going to be normal with Trump elected? You keep saying I'm not reading or not understanding you, so here's a chance to eliminate misunderstanding and miscommunication. Ooh so much effort. That’s not a simplification. It’s indulging your conceit that I unjustly blame the wild reactions to Trump for the existence of Trump. You have thus far only showed that you can’t understand how feeding the troll influences the troll to continue. You get Zero until you can admit that the outrage/triggering machine demands more tweets of this nature. Have you ever had a provocateur at any party you’ve attended? I’m starting to doubt your variety of life experience, since you literally only resort to insinuation and not fact. “Just ignore him” is not justifying his existence or his life choices. It’s a rational response. But you’ve repeatedly and quizzically insinuated the contrary. It’s baffling, to be honest. Still ignoring the simply question I see. Everyone is responsible for the US turning into the laughing stock of the world but you. On January 03 2018 10:14 micronesia wrote:
Danglers, while few users will be surprised, it's quite telling that you danced around the questions again without answering, all while throwing shot after shot at me even though I haven't really disagreed with you about your overarching criticism of liberals creating the current environment. When you are willing to actually answer my questions I'll have to change my opinion that you don't have conversations here in good faith. Were either of you really expecting a proper response? I know it's a new year but were you expecting him to change whatsoever? I'm constantly shocked at the level people engage with him. I assume it's because you're all bored at work with nothing better to do? I used to give him and others the benefit of the doubt but that ran out long ago. I think specifically it was around when Yango gave him a direct example (after he requested it) and then never responded only to goad more bullshit with other users. Were you expecting the outrage at Trump persisting in using “rocket man” to generate anything else but repeated use? Please wait a few minutes and consider before responding. When an abused wife expresses to her husband that his abuse is unacceptable, even though all it will accomplish is provoking further abuse, who is at fault and who should change their behaviour? Here we have it: the ultimate refutation of TeamLiquid trolls. They're just like wife abusers. Wait a second ... I think you might be trying your best at not having a stab at it. Show nested quote +Were you expecting the outrage at Trump persisting in using “rocket man” to generate anything else but repeated use? Please wait a few minutes and consider before responding. Was that your expectation?
You've completely misinterpreted or misrepresented what I said. The allegory of a wife abuser was to Trump, not to the "TeamLiquid troll" to whom you are referring.
And no, I wouldn't expect outrage at many of Trump's actions to affect Trump's future actions in any way other than to encourage them. That doesn't mean that the people expressing that outrage are to blame in any way for what Trump does, or that that outrage does not have other, less counterproductive, effects.
Now I've been nice and explicitly answered your question, I think you have an unanswered question or two on the table:
On January 03 2018 09:57 micronesia wrote:
Recognizing more than one party may be at least partly responsible for a given act or situation,
1) Who is more responsible for the fact that Trump was elected, the people who voted for him, or the liberals in the U.S.?
2) Who is more responsible for Trump's tweeting behavior currently referring to Kim John Un as little rocket man, liberals because they get triggered, or the people who voted for Trump knowing this type of behavior was going to be normal with Trump elected?
|
Danglars is on one today damn.
Looks like several pages of
"Liberals made us vote for a grade school bully that lies incessantly because they hurt our admittedly ignorant feelings"
It's a mix between pathetic and hilarious to see the extent Danglars is willing to go to in order to pretend he and conservatives are victims of the big bad liberals and voting for a record breaking idiot like Trump was the only sensible choice they had left.
|
I just woke up to this "I have a bigger dick than you" statement by the president of the USA. What a world we are living in. I want to thank again all the "special" boys that voted for Trump, what a great idea.
|
On January 02 2018 21:01 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +@mozoku: This is kinda "the sky is blue" of American politics, but I'll humor you. It's very well known that the middle class itself has suffered since around the 1980's, at least in terms of income. That's everywhere, and every damn newspaper and research center has something on it. Here's the Centre on Budget and Policy Priorities' nice little graphic: ![[image loading]](https://www.cbpp.org/sites/default/files/styles/downsample150to92/public/atoms/files/10-24-17pov.png?itok=wAexWmRm) Attributing policy to economic change is not trivial, but it is important to note that Reagan came into power right at the splitting point: just after 1980. Once of the first major events of his presidency was his handling of a massive strike. And by handling, I mean he told the workers to go **** themselves. This very strong anti-labour action sent a strong message - unions and organised workers no longer had any real bargaining power as of then. Democracynow analysis of the Patco strikeNYTimes op-ed on Patco StrikeWhile both pieces have a very different view of Reagan's personal ideals, there's no disagreement in the effect of Reagan's decisions regarding unions. It would not be at all surprising to see income disparity after middle and working class people lost their negotiating power, and that is exactly what happened. The myriad of tax cuts and opposition to programs like proper healthcare haven't helped at all, but effectively giving all power to decide wages and salaries to those who already have economic power, is IMO far and away the biggest action the Republican establishment has taken to screw the middle class over. It's important to note that a lot of the problem is what the government hasn't done. Companies already have legal teams, money and time. They don't need their interests to be quite as carefully looked after. Corporate welfare is a sick joke. However their average worker most certainly does not have these things, so in order to maintain a semblance of balance, to have the interests of the middle class protected, government needs to pro-actively support them. They need to ensure unions have some bite and to spend on programs like healthcare. This is why progressives, by and large, don't have very good opinions of libertarian viewpoints. It's why they outright despise the Republican party, because their deliberate refusal to give workers any negotiating power, and their deliberate obstructionism with regards to healthcare and social spending, is as good as telling the average citizen to get ****ed and accept slave wages when their employer decides they want to have a bit more money.
Apologies for late reply. Busy work day.
You're making the exact mistake that I thought you would, and mistakenly attributing to the government that which is actually the result of technology-driven economic shifts.
First mistake: the middle class isn't simply deteriorating away into poverty. It's bifurcating into winners and losers, which is the expected outcome of the shift to the knowledge economy and globalization. The driver of inequality, therefore, isn't government policy but economic shifts. Unions are part of this story, as it's a global trend. While globalization has certainly hurt American laborers and benefited higher earners, it's also brought raised the living standards of untold millions, if not billions, in the developing world. You can make a valid argument that the US should be prioritizing its domestic workers ahead of foreigners, but liberals and leftists who believe the US government is out to screw the middle class almost invariably despise the nationalist/protectionist view so that isn't your ticket either.
Next mistake: blaming the US tax code. Granted the tax code just changed, but the previous tax regime had been the most progressive tax code among developed countries. However, the progressive tax revenue hasn't been redistributed to the middle- and lower- classes. I suspect that has to do with the fact that America subsidizes a large share of the world's defense--seeing as most of the developed world spends about a than a third of as much on defense as the US (as a share of GDP, which is already somewhat biased against the US). [1] [2]
There's one reason you listed that I haven't yet touched: social programs. The two that I commonly hear about are education and healthcare. US healthcare is a mess, but there's been highly publicized efforts from both sides to reform the system in the past decade. The system will likely look completely different in another 10 years.
The suggested education policies I've seen that focus on expanding college access are moronic, as I've explained in an earlier post.
--------------
Despite all of the crying about lobbyists, campaign funding, Trump's profiting off the presidency, etc., there isn't much actual evidence that all of this has amounted to policies that have destroyed the middle class to line the pockets of the rich. The reality is that the shift in income in favor the upper and upper-middle class are economy and technology-driven, and that the government can't simply wave a magic wand to fix the problem.
Health care seems like the lowest hanging fruit, and unsurprisingly it's been the biggest political issue of the past two presidencies.
|
|
|
On January 03 2018 16:01 mozoku wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2018 21:01 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +@mozoku: This is kinda "the sky is blue" of American politics, but I'll humor you. It's very well known that the middle class itself has suffered since around the 1980's, at least in terms of income. That's everywhere, and every damn newspaper and research center has something on it. Here's the Centre on Budget and Policy Priorities' nice little graphic: Attributing policy to economic change is not trivial, but it is important to note that Reagan came into power right at the splitting point: just after 1980. Once of the first major events of his presidency was his handling of a massive strike. And by handling, I mean he told the workers to go **** themselves. This very strong anti-labour action sent a strong message - unions and organised workers no longer had any real bargaining power as of then. Democracynow analysis of the Patco strikeNYTimes op-ed on Patco StrikeWhile both pieces have a very different view of Reagan's personal ideals, there's no disagreement in the effect of Reagan's decisions regarding unions. It would not be at all surprising to see income disparity after middle and working class people lost their negotiating power, and that is exactly what happened. The myriad of tax cuts and opposition to programs like proper healthcare haven't helped at all, but effectively giving all power to decide wages and salaries to those who already have economic power, is IMO far and away the biggest action the Republican establishment has taken to screw the middle class over. It's important to note that a lot of the problem is what the government hasn't done. Companies already have legal teams, money and time. They don't need their interests to be quite as carefully looked after. Corporate welfare is a sick joke. However their average worker most certainly does not have these things, so in order to maintain a semblance of balance, to have the interests of the middle class protected, government needs to pro-actively support them. They need to ensure unions have some bite and to spend on programs like healthcare. This is why progressives, by and large, don't have very good opinions of libertarian viewpoints. It's why they outright despise the Republican party, because their deliberate refusal to give workers any negotiating power, and their deliberate obstructionism with regards to healthcare and social spending, is as good as telling the average citizen to get ****ed and accept slave wages when their employer decides they want to have a bit more money. Apologies for late reply. Busy work day. You're making the exact mistake that I thought you would, and mistakenly attributing to the government that which is actually the result of technology-driven economic shifts. First mistake: the middle class isn't simply deteriorating away into poverty. It's bifurcating into winners and losers, which is the expected outcome of the shift to the knowledge economy and globalization. The driver of inequality, therefore, isn't government policy but economic shifts. Unions are part of this story, as it's a global trend. While globalization has certainly hurt American laborers and benefited higher earners, it's also brought raised the living standards of untold millions, if not billions, in the developing world. You can make a valid argument that the US should be prioritizing its domestic workers ahead of foreigners, but liberals and leftists who believe the US government is out to screw the middle class almost invariably despise the nationalist/protectionist view so that isn't your ticket either. Next mistake: blaming the US tax code. Granted the tax code just changed, but the previous tax regime had been the most progressive tax code among developed countries. However, the progressive tax revenue hasn't been redistributed to the middle- and lower- classes. I suspect that has to do with the fact that America subsidizes a large share of the world's defense--seeing as most of the developed world spends about a than a third of as much on defense as the US (as a share of GDP, which is already somewhat biased against the US). [1] [2]There's one reason you listed that I haven't yet touched: social programs. The two that I commonly hear about are education and healthcare. US healthcare is a mess, but there's been highly publicized efforts from both sides to reform the system in the past decade. The system will likely look completely different in another 10 years. The suggested education policies I've seen that focus on expanding college access are moronic, as I've explained in an earlier post. -------------- Despite all of the crying about lobbyists, campaign funding, Trump's profiting off the presidency, etc., there isn't much actual evidence that all of this has amounted to policies that have destroyed the middle class to line the pockets of the rich. The reality is that the shift in income in favor the upper and upper-middle class are economy and technology-driven, and that the government can't simply wave a magic wand to fix the problem. Health care seems like the lowest hanging fruit, and unsurprisingly it's been the biggest political issue of the past two presidencies.
ah well, the way you tell it, the shrinking of the middle class is just the result of the market, which itself is just a consequence of human nature. government policies don't matter, so why do we get so worked up about who to vote for?
|
On January 03 2018 16:01 mozoku wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2018 21:01 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:+ Show Spoiler +@mozoku: This is kinda "the sky is blue" of American politics, but I'll humor you. It's very well known that the middle class itself has suffered since around the 1980's, at least in terms of income. That's everywhere, and every damn newspaper and research center has something on it. Here's the Centre on Budget and Policy Priorities' nice little graphic: Attributing policy to economic change is not trivial, but it is important to note that Reagan came into power right at the splitting point: just after 1980. Once of the first major events of his presidency was his handling of a massive strike. And by handling, I mean he told the workers to go **** themselves. This very strong anti-labour action sent a strong message - unions and organised workers no longer had any real bargaining power as of then. Democracynow analysis of the Patco strikeNYTimes op-ed on Patco StrikeWhile both pieces have a very different view of Reagan's personal ideals, there's no disagreement in the effect of Reagan's decisions regarding unions. It would not be at all surprising to see income disparity after middle and working class people lost their negotiating power, and that is exactly what happened. The myriad of tax cuts and opposition to programs like proper healthcare haven't helped at all, but effectively giving all power to decide wages and salaries to those who already have economic power, is IMO far and away the biggest action the Republican establishment has taken to screw the middle class over. It's important to note that a lot of the problem is what the government hasn't done. Companies already have legal teams, money and time. They don't need their interests to be quite as carefully looked after. Corporate welfare is a sick joke. However their average worker most certainly does not have these things, so in order to maintain a semblance of balance, to have the interests of the middle class protected, government needs to pro-actively support them. They need to ensure unions have some bite and to spend on programs like healthcare. This is why progressives, by and large, don't have very good opinions of libertarian viewpoints. It's why they outright despise the Republican party, because their deliberate refusal to give workers any negotiating power, and their deliberate obstructionism with regards to healthcare and social spending, is as good as telling the average citizen to get ****ed and accept slave wages when their employer decides they want to have a bit more money. Apologies for late reply. Busy work day. You're making the exact mistake that I thought you would, and mistakenly attributing to the government that which is actually the result of technology-driven economic shifts. First mistake: the middle class isn't simply deteriorating away into poverty. It's bifurcating into winners and losers, which is the expected outcome of the shift to the knowledge economy and globalization. The driver of inequality, therefore, isn't government policy but economic shifts. Unions are part of this story, as it's a global trend. While globalization has certainly hurt American laborers and benefited higher earners, it's also brought raised the living standards of untold millions, if not billions, in the developing world. You can make a valid argument that the US should be prioritizing its domestic workers ahead of foreigners, but liberals and leftists who believe the US government is out to screw the middle class almost invariably despise the nationalist/protectionist view so that isn't your ticket either. Next mistake: blaming the US tax code. Granted the tax code just changed, but the previous tax regime had been the most progressive tax code among developed countries. However, the progressive tax revenue hasn't been redistributed to the middle- and lower- classes. I suspect that has to do with the fact that America subsidizes a large share of the world's defense--seeing as most of the developed world spends about a than a third of as much on defense as the US (as a share of GDP, which is already somewhat biased against the US). [1] [2]There's one reason you listed that I haven't yet touched: social programs. The two that I commonly hear about are education and healthcare. US healthcare is a mess, but there's been highly publicized efforts from both sides to reform the system in the past decade. The system will likely look completely different in another 10 years. The suggested education policies I've seen that focus on expanding college access are moronic, as I've explained in an earlier post. -------------- Despite all of the crying about lobbyists, campaign funding, Trump's profiting off the presidency, etc., there isn't much actual evidence that all of this has amounted to policies that have destroyed the middle class to line the pockets of the rich. The reality is that the shift in income in favor the upper and upper-middle class are economy and technology-driven, and that the government can't simply wave a magic wand to fix the problem. Health care seems like the lowest hanging fruit, and unsurprisingly it's been the biggest political issue of the past two presidencies.
Okay, so you insist that, for example, outright destroying the wage negotiating power of much of the middle class, whose wages have since stagnated, was not at all responsible for the observed trend, and that the aforementioned is purely market forces. I'm not exactly convinced, you understand.
A bifurcation isn't much different than destruction if 10-20% go up and the whole rest go down.
Government can't wave a magic wand, they can however do more than say "oh well guess nature intended for you to be poor". The weird wealth distribution in the US is absolutely not the norm for a country with so much wealth. To blame it all on market forces and whatever completely misses a massive potential role of government. A role that many other countries, to varying degrees, seem to get. This weird deregulation, anti-union, anti-social spending idea the Republican party has (and that the democrats have often allowed them to get away with, although the Fox situation is also anomalous) cannot be left blameless. Especially, again, considering that the US has worse income inequality than pretty much any other developed country. Arguing that there is no cause-effect relationship between policy that destroys middle class bargaining power, and the stagnation of middle class earnings which really kicks off there after, is going to need to be a bit more convincing than this.
|
Estonia4504 Posts
On January 03 2018 12:26 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2018 10:14 micronesia wrote:
Danglers, while few users will be surprised, it's quite telling that you danced around the questions again without answering, all while throwing shot after shot at me even though I haven't really disagreed with you about your overarching criticism of liberals creating the current environment. When you are willing to actually answer my questions I'll have to change my opinion that you don't have conversations here in good faith. Here we are again. I really don’t think you have special privilege to butt in and say I’m being unfair to liberals (assaigning them undue blame for the circumstances behind Trump’s election). You demand I answer to the spread of fault. Bahh. Go ahead and say you breathe the rarified air and divine my intentions to absolve Trump voters. I hold that you’ve said some very silly things and try to call others to account. Give a more full explanation next time. All this sophomoric focus on your perceptions is unbecoming of you.
Here's two questions.
1) How long do you think you can go without attacking anyone indirectly or directly in this thread? Literally every single post has an attack of some sort.
2) Can you just chill for a week or so? If you do, I'm sure nothing negative will happen.
|
The Jewish attorney who Roy Moore's wife touted employing in an attempt to fight off claims of anti-Semitism is actually a longtime friend and supporter of Senator-elect Doug Jones, who defeated Moore last month.
Richard Jaffe is an Alabama defense attorney hired by the Moores to defend their son, Caleb Moore, against drug charges in 2016.
Jaffe told the Washington Examiner he has been close personal friends with Doug Jones for more than 30 years and he both contributed to, and raised money for, his campaign.
"There could not be a more passionate supporter of Doug than me!" Jaffe said.
The Birmingham-based lawyer walked alongside Jones as he took center stage to deliver his acceptance speech and plans to be in the Senate gallery on Wednesday as Jones is sworn in.
Kayla Moore, Roy Moore's wife, caught the political world off-guard the night before the Dec. 12 special election to replace Jeff Sessions when she referenced Jaffe in a campaign speech.
“Fake news will tell you that we don’t care for Jews. I tell you all this because I’ve seen it also I just want to set the record straight while they’re here,” Kayla Moore said at a campaign rally in Midland City, Ala., waving at the media. “One of our attorneys is a Jew!”
Kayla Moore made the remarks after claims that the Moore family hated Jewish people surfaced subsequent to her husband suggesting that Jewish billionaire George Soros was going to hell.
"He's still going to the same place that people who don't recognize God and morality and accept his salvation are going," Moore said of Soros last month during a local radio interview.
On Dec. 12, Doug Jones beat Roy Moore in the special election for Alabama's open U.S. Senate seat.
Source
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
