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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9349

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Uldridge
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Belgium4953 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-28 19:42:47
November 28 2017 19:40 GMT
#186961
Whites = 100%, blacks = 100%, total = 200%
Anyway, stupid thing, it's simply used to rile up the public and further divide.
Taxes are for Terrans
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-28 19:44:18
November 28 2017 19:41 GMT
#186962
On November 29 2017 04:35 Seuss wrote:
We could sell Alaska to Canada. The Civ/Stellaris player in me is perpetually bothered by how it isn't connected with the rest of the country.

We built a harbor. It's connected to the rest of the country by sea

Come to think of it, most Civ players would see the current situation as reason to completely conquer Canada/create a land route to Alaska by conquest to more easily invade Russia.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14047 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-28 19:46:54
November 28 2017 19:45 GMT
#186963
On November 29 2017 04:32 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2017 04:30 Plansix wrote:
On November 29 2017 04:24 Logo wrote:
On November 29 2017 03:41 Plansix wrote:
Trump’s master plan of saying you don’t plan on making a deal is a good way to get a meeting about cutting a deal canceled. Trump is going to find out that hard way that the party in power gets blamed for government shut downs.


Idk uh lets not cheer for the shutdown just because of political gain there's a whole lot of scientific progress (and lab animals) that suffer heavily during these things .

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want it. It is bad for everyone. My brother works for the federal government. The last shut down was not fun at all. Mortgage payments were nearly missed before they put him back to work. And the Obama administration was far more capable that the clown show in the oval office this time around.

But Trump embodies the political desire to touch the stove and people voting for that. This is a guy who said that the US should default of its debt if they couldn’t get a better deal. I hate finance and math in general, but I know national default is apocalyptic. I am prepared for the worst.

He also said that he'd pay back the full $20t national debt in 8 years. When pressed on how he'd achieve that one of these advisers gave the amazing reply of selling all of the national parks and other Federal land to China in settlement of the debt. I guess we're lucky he didn't think to try to sell Alaska back to Russia.

Oh no it wasn't even that. That could have logically worked if we were willing to sell those to china. His idea to repay the debt was wholly based on renegotiating trade deals. Saying how china alone we're losing $550 billion a year and how we need to change that. I could go back in the thread if you want the interview.
On November 29 2017 04:41 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2017 04:35 Seuss wrote:
We could sell Alaska to Canada. The Civ/Stellaris player in me is perpetually bothered by how it isn't connected with the rest of the country.

We built a harbor. It's connected to the rest of the country by sea

Come to think of it, most Civ players would see the current situation as reason to completely conquer Canada/create a land route to Alaska by conquest to more easily invade Russia.

We built a harbor and in classic Civ imitating life we didn't feel the need to connect it by road to the rest of the state/rest of world.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
November 28 2017 19:47 GMT
#186964
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
November 28 2017 19:47 GMT
#186965
On November 29 2017 04:41 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2017 04:35 Seuss wrote:
We could sell Alaska to Canada. The Civ/Stellaris player in me is perpetually bothered by how it isn't connected with the rest of the country.

We built a harbor. It's connected to the rest of the country by sea


Well played sir.

More seriously I don't want to put the entire country in the same position as Puerto Rico was pre-Hurricane in terms fo selling itself off to pay debts. The only thing it accomplishes is making creditors rich.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
November 28 2017 19:51 GMT
#186966
On November 29 2017 04:24 Toadesstern wrote:

Why am I even trying to understand nazi propaganda


Because there's a cogent argument under the statistics - namely, that police aren't particularly dangerous for black Americans compared to non-police black Americans. By implication, despite BLM's stance, blacks would be safer with stronger policing.

KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43204 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-28 19:53:04
November 28 2017 19:52 GMT
#186967
On November 29 2017 04:51 Buckyman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2017 04:24 Toadesstern wrote:

Why am I even trying to understand nazi propaganda


Because there's a cogent argument under the statistics - namely, that police aren't particularly dangerous for black Americans compared to non-police black Americans. By implication, despite BLM's stance, blacks would be safer with stronger policing.


You can want more policing while also wanting better policing. The two aren't in any way exclusive. You don't have to be anti-policing in general to want the police to stop shooting you.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Excludos
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway8156 Posts
November 28 2017 19:55 GMT
#186968
On November 29 2017 04:51 Buckyman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2017 04:24 Toadesstern wrote:

Why am I even trying to understand nazi propaganda


Because there's a cogent argument under the statistics - namely, that police aren't particularly dangerous for black Americans compared to non-police black Americans. By implication, despite BLM's stance, blacks would be safer with stronger policing.



If you have to use fake statistics to prove your argument it might not be entirely cogent.

The biggest problem in America isn't too much or too little policing, it's the complete lack of police training. For most countries it's treated as a bachelor or masters degree. In US it's a 6 month basic camp.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21950 Posts
November 28 2017 19:57 GMT
#186969
On November 29 2017 04:47 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/samstein/status/935592305729396737

This thing being the tax plan?
The one with a gutting of the ACA?

I would be extremely surprised considering the resistance to the last several times
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
November 28 2017 20:04 GMT
#186970
On November 29 2017 04:57 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2017 04:47 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/samstein/status/935592305729396737

This thing being the tax plan?
The one with a gutting of the ACA?

I would be extremely surprised considering the resistance to the last several times

The vote from the senate budget committee. As in this report claims they’ve found a compromise that will pass that committee and possibly go on to pass the senate, entering reconciliation.

As I was typing this, it just passed the budget committee 12-11. Corker/Johnson on board. It’s interesting because the prospects of all the factions coming together was on something was close to nil, and now it seems like there’s more hope.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 28 2017 20:08 GMT
#186971
The whole “black on black” crime thing has been a pretty amazing trick of basic statistic. On average, more blacks are poor that whites in general. Poverty, in general, is a pretty good indicator if an area will experience violent crime. More blacks living in poverty, therefore more violent crime. Then add in that cities like Boston are more segregated now than in the 1980s and you get the modern problems in black culture/communities narrative. As pushed by Dr. Huxtable himself, the leader in boot strap black conservativism.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 28 2017 20:11 GMT
#186972
I am looking forward to being firmly middle class and getting screwed over by this tax bill for rich people. Very excited to pay more and still have to worry about these clowns gutting healthcare.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21950 Posts
November 28 2017 20:16 GMT
#186973
On November 29 2017 05:04 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2017 04:57 Gorsameth wrote:
On November 29 2017 04:47 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/samstein/status/935592305729396737

This thing being the tax plan?
The one with a gutting of the ACA?

I would be extremely surprised considering the resistance to the last several times

The vote from the senate budget committee. As in this report claims they’ve found a compromise that will pass that committee and possibly go on to pass the senate, entering reconciliation.

As I was typing this, it just passed the budget committee 12-11. Corker/Johnson on board. It’s interesting because the prospects of all the factions coming together was on something was close to nil, and now it seems like there’s more hope.

ah ok, passing the committee is a whole different thing from passing the Senate.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
November 28 2017 20:19 GMT
#186974
On November 29 2017 05:04 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2017 04:57 Gorsameth wrote:
On November 29 2017 04:47 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/samstein/status/935592305729396737

This thing being the tax plan?
The one with a gutting of the ACA?

I would be extremely surprised considering the resistance to the last several times

The vote from the senate budget committee. As in this report claims they’ve found a compromise that will pass that committee and possibly go on to pass the senate, entering reconciliation.

As I was typing this, it just passed the budget committee 12-11. Corker/Johnson on board. It’s interesting because the prospects of all the factions coming together was on something was close to nil, and now it seems like there’s more hope.


Does this version the full Senate will be voting on later this week include the ACA mandate repeal?
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-28 20:23:31
November 28 2017 20:20 GMT
#186975
I would expect another Frankenstein series of bills to emerge once the bill actually hits the floor-in particular, I don't see how anything they add to appease Corker won't piss off another of the votes they need, unless he's given up being a deficit hawk right after saying he would be one.

Then again, none of these people read the consequences of the amendments and bills they create-otherwise we wouldn't have had a bill raising annual insurance payments for a 64 year old who makes 27K to over 14,000 dollars.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-28 20:22:42
November 28 2017 20:22 GMT
#186976

CFPB Deputy Director ‘Flagrantly Butchers’ Law in Lawsuit Against Trump Pick, Expert Says

On Sunday, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau’s Deputy Director Leandra English filed a lawsuit against President Donald Trump and John ‘Mick’ Mulvaney, whom Trump picked to be Acting Director of the CFPB after the former head, Richard Cordray, resigned. Cordray resigned as of Friday, and English claims that the Dodd-Frank Act—which created the CFPB—declares that she become the Acting Director until a permanent director is both nominated by the president and confirmed by the Senate.

Trump’s selection of Mulvaney appears to be authorized by the Federal Vacancies Reform Act, which grants POTUS the power to name a temporary acting director of a government body. English argues, however, that the FVRA doesn’t apply to this situation, because it specifically says that it is not “the exclusive means for temporarily authorizing an acting official” when another statute “expressly designates” someone else to take on the role.

There are two issues with English’s argument.

First, she misstates the law by saying “the Vacancies Act, by its own terms, does not apply where another statute ‘expressly . . . designates an officer or employee.'” The Act doesn’t say it “does not apply,” only that it is not the “exclusive means” for picking an Acting Director. Indeed, the CFPB’s own General Counsel Mary E. McLeod refuted this argument in a memo sent the day before English filed her lawsuit.

The memo cites a situation from 2007 when the Office of Legal Counsel deemed it proper when an Acting Attorney General was selected who would not have been the one next in line according to the agency’s succession statute. That OLC opinion stated, “That the Vacancies Reform Act is not exclusive does not mean that it is unavailable.”

Additionally, even if the FVRA would be overruled by a contradicting statute, it’s unclear whether Dodd-Frank really contradicts it. Dodd-Frank says that the Deputy Director shall “serve as acting Director in the absence or unavailability of the Director.” As McLeod noted, an “absence” typically means something temporary, where a “vacancy” would mean a permanent situation such as the one created by Cordray’s resignation.

Adam White, a professor at George Mason University’s Antonin Scalia Law School, agrees with McCleod.


In a blog post, White cited a Ninth Circuit decision that ruled in favor of President Barack Obama‘s usage of the FVRA to appoint an acting General Counsel to the National Labor Relations Board, despite the National Labor Relations Act having a clause similar to Dodd-Frank’s. The court ruled in that case that the existence of the NLRA’s clause did not prohibit Obama from appointing his own replacement, rather it provided an alternative option for selecting someone for the position.

White also noted that Trump could solve this problem pretty quickly by firing English.

English’s lawsuit also ignores another part of the FVRA. In her complaint, she warns that with his new appointment, Mulvaney “would seek to serve indefinitely as the interim head[.]” That’s just not true, however, as the FVRA provides time limits for how long a person named under the Act can serve. Mulvaney would not be able to serve for longer than 210 days, unless a nomination for the permanent role is rejected, in which case his term would be extended.

English v Trump Mulvaney Complaint by LawNewz on Scribd



lawandcrime.com
I think Danglars mentioned this situation a while back.

In other news, our favorite legal analysis site changed its name from "lawnewz" to law and crime after being bought by someone. I think A&E? Whatever, change is highly welcome. Lawnewz made it seem like a meme site.
Trainrunnef
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States599 Posts
November 28 2017 20:34 GMT
#186977
On November 29 2017 04:55 Excludos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2017 04:51 Buckyman wrote:
On November 29 2017 04:24 Toadesstern wrote:

Why am I even trying to understand nazi propaganda


Because there's a cogent argument under the statistics - namely, that police aren't particularly dangerous for black Americans compared to non-police black Americans. By implication, despite BLM's stance, blacks would be safer with stronger policing.



If you have to use fake statistics to prove your argument it might not be entirely cogent.

The biggest problem in America isn't too much or too little policing, it's the complete lack of police training. For most countries it's treated as a bachelor or masters degree. In US it's a 6 month basic camp.


here is a random sample of what is required by police officers in the US

[image loading]

here is a sample (england and wales only because I am not fluent enough in other european languages) of what is required by police officers in europe

Continuing Professional Development (CPD) is anything over and above mandatory training,
for example first aid. This has just been launched at 35 hours per year (recommended by
the College of Policing) recorded locally by logging hours (Interviewee 7).


n8prp.org.uk
I am, therefore I pee
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
November 28 2017 20:39 GMT
#186978
So, apparently Uber thinks it's completely above all laws:
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/28/uber-waymo-hearing-trial-delayed-amid-new-evidence.html

You have to fuck up pretty badly for the Justice Department to step into a case unrequested and tell the judge that evidence was withheld.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
doomdonker
Profile Joined October 2017
90 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-28 20:43:54
November 28 2017 20:40 GMT
#186979
Continuing Professional Development (CPD) in the document you listed is anything over and above mandatory training. The issue he's bringing up with American policing is the mandatory training.

From the Greater Manchester Police Force is an example of basic training for a British police officer. I seems similar to what Australian police officers go through, its definitely not a walk in the park from what I know:

The initial training is divided into three phases, and lasts for 20 weeks with one week built into the programme for annual leave. Leave at this stage will be taken as directed. Following this you will have a period of workplace assessment. Successful completion at this point will make you eligible for independent patrol. Over the following 18 months, you will continue to be assessed and will return to Sedgley Park, or other training venues for further legislative training.

Weeks 1 – 10
You will be based at the Sedgley Park complex. This incorporates a general induction into GMP or your new role if you are an internal candidate; an introduction to the main policies and procedures, including professional standards and expectations; ethics and values; decision making and problem solving; communication skills training, the assessment process for the probationary period and some basic legislation. You will also attend other sites to undertake Personal Safety Training and on your Borough for a Community Engagement week incorporating partnership awareness. You will have your Attestation ceremony in this period of training.

Weeks 11 – 20
This is the main section of the legislative training programme. You will work aligned to an Area Training Base, of which there are 5 across the force. They are currently located at Rochdale, Bury, Stretford, Leigh and Wythenshawe. It includes public protection training, crime scene preservation and investigation and training on roads policing. You will also undergo victim and suspect interview and search technique training.

Assessment
During your initial training you will be assessed by way of knowledge checks, multiple choice question formal assessment, and taking part in simulated exercises designed to test your practical application of knowledge.

You will also be enrolled on the Level 3 Diploma in Policing which is a nationally recognised qualification and equivalent to ‘A’-level standard on the Qualifications Credit Framework. The City and Guilds are our current providers for the award.

You will be assessed by trained assessors both in the learning environment and also in the workplace. You will work toward completion of the award within your two-year probationary period and is essential for you to achieve confirmation in the rank of Constable. You will use an electronic portfolio to record evidence of competence.

Tutor Phase. Weeks 22-32
Following the initial training programme, you will commence a period of 10-weeks workplace assessment with a trained tutor constable. This will be on your posted borough and you are likely to be on shifts during this period. You will be assessed against some of the basic skills required for an officer to achieve independent patrol.


Independent Patrol/Phase 4. Weeks 33 - 104
During this time you will be on independent patrol on your Borough and are likely to be a Neighbourhood Police Office. You will be continually assessed during this period by trained Borough staff and your line manager who will complete assessment documentation. You will return to a training venue for 3 additional developmental courses throughout this period covering more complex legislation.

Completion
At the successful completion of this two-year probation period, you will be confirmed in the rank of Constable.
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
November 28 2017 20:41 GMT
#186980
On November 29 2017 03:25 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 29 2017 03:00 Artisreal wrote:
On November 29 2017 02:15 Danglars wrote:
On November 29 2017 01:44 Artisreal wrote:
On November 29 2017 01:27 Danglars wrote:
On November 29 2017 01:18 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 29 2017 01:17 Danglars wrote:
On November 29 2017 01:05 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 29 2017 00:28 Danglars wrote:
On November 28 2017 17:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]

Well we have mutual combat laws here so I figured it would go something like you say something repugnant, I say you can't say that, you say you can, I challenge you to combat to settle whether you can say it in my presence or not, you don't like those choices and object. I assure you your choices are 1. not say it 2.fight 3. get ostrasized and not be a part of the conversation. You pick fight and get punched in the throat.

I suppose you could just walk away or stop, but you seem far too stubborn to do something like that.

Seems perfectly civilized to me, but you also can't tell the difference between everything being racist and racism being a part of pretty much everything in this country so we clearly have trouble agreeing on the meaning of words.

Your evaluation of what’s repugnant lol. You’re way too willing to settle things with violence for me. Go find a police officer or something to get your rocks off.

You’ve always seen racism in everything and I don’t expect it to change soon.


It's pretty simple really. We both see a Nazi advocating for my genocide I go to punch him, you defend his right to advocate genocide, and get punched too.

You act like your positions aren't antithetical to polite discourse on their face. You seem to think you're entitled to the floor to say whatever you want, well, you can't say fire in a crowded theater and you can't advocate for my genocide in my presence. You want to think that makes me the uncivilized one, you go right ahead.

I do have to give you points for the clever "Kill yourself" line you slipped in there though.

First amendment free speech rights, who needs them? I should frame those first two sentences. But don’t worry, bro, if they shout to start lynching blacks in such and such neighborhood, that’s inciting imminent unlawful activity. I won’t let your base stupidity on the free speech rights of citizens interfere with the historical crossing of the line.

You wish everybody thought like you, but they don’t. If you’re perpetually aggrieved, and say that gives you the right to punch someone talking politics, you construct your own law. Just excuse your own mischief.

Here’s a thought: If you’re sharing beers and a political topic comes up, and you’re willing to punch him or her over it, just tell them to not discuss politics. It’ll work out better for both, and you get the bonus of not appearing to be a man itching for a fight. Given your tendency to call conservatives here advocates of white supremacy, and topics not unique to the black community expose white fragility, you’re just telling everyone to expect violence for their politics. And anyone not in full agreement with your political theory will have the good sense to stay away from those threats.


You're sitting here defending advocating genocide on the principle that it will take too long to get from where we are today to actually committing genocide without a shred of irony.

As for the rest, I already said that in the first place...

But in reality I have friends with wildly different politics. I'm the leftiest though. They run all the way to "voted for Trump" you seem not to appreciate how absurd the ground you're standing on is as displayed by the first part.

You're sitting here unaware that intruding on the free speech rights of some imperils the free speech rights of all. And then you make the absurd leap that neonazis protected when they do their stupid marches is one short step to "actually committing genocide." We have laws. You can say what you like politically with great freedom. You can't start killing people based on skin color. These laws have held up thus far.

I'm glad you haven't put your stated rules for socking people into practice with your friend group.

Casually assuming you're part of all and he's part of some.
:Thinking:

How much worth is a law that is not abided by? Nothing.
By that standard it suffices to have the law.
We have the law of not punching you so punching you is fine.
But go on please.

What are you on about? Law against genocide?

Keep on thinking about free speech rights.

You even have a sheriff that's been pardoned by your president as a prime example how fucking meaningless laws can be when the people enforcing them are confronted with a non white person.
Your failure to see that is on you.

Are you really ducking to Arpaio? Was Obama black and did he have pardon power over everyone black and white?

You're on fire today!
What is Obamas connection to a racist lawbreaker that has been exempt from punishment by your President?

Two things come apparent with Arpaio.
1) Racist policies are in place and breaking the law, entirely voiding your "there's a law against genocide" argument. Just because we have a law there's no fucking way to be sure it is enforced when needed, especially concerning POCs
2) It takes a long time of that being public knowledge and a little luck for the justice system to finally fuck him over
2b) then comes the Cavalry and ruins justice for a little diversion during Hurricane troubles
passive quaranstream fan
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