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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9231

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 14 2017 00:17 GMT
#184601


Banned from the mall, not from the Senate.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
November 14 2017 00:18 GMT
#184602
On November 14 2017 08:52 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2017 08:50 xDaunt wrote:
On November 14 2017 08:44 Mohdoo wrote:
On November 14 2017 08:41 mikedebo wrote:
On November 14 2017 07:32 Plansix wrote:
On November 14 2017 07:25 Nevuk wrote:
Goddamn



www.theatlantic.com


My favorite part is how it is through twitter DMs. Like not even private email. It would be like finding out the one of Bush’s daughters was communing with Al Qaeda through AIM.


Better yet, ICQ. "Uh oh!"

Mueller slaps manafort around a bit with a large trout

Don't show your age.

Lol, am I considered old now?! T_T I should really start cranking out kids soon..arg

You know and/or have used ICQ. You def old.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 14 2017 00:23 GMT
#184603
There is nothing wrong with ICQ or a good old BBS.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-14 00:38:29
November 14 2017 00:38 GMT
#184604
didn't ICQ go out of fashion like ~10 years ago or something? That can't be considered old
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
November 14 2017 00:45 GMT
#184605

Roy Moore, the Republican Senate candidate and former chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, was born in Gadsden, a small city flanked by Interstate 59 and the Coosa River, an hour northeast of Birmingham. Gadsden is hilly, woodsy, blue-collar, and religious. “LEGAL OR NOT, SIN IS SIN,” a sign in front of a church announced yesterday. I saw it as I drove around, crisscrossing George Wallace Drive. I also saw Trump posters, Confederate flags, and dozens of signs for Doug Jones, the Democrat tied with Moore in recent Senate-race polls. Gadsden is the seat of Etowah County, which is a conservative place; Donald Trump received three times as many votes in the county as Hillary Clinton did. (Statewide, he received twice as many.) But I didn’t, in all my driving, see a single yard sign for Moore, the home-town son. Even the parking lot of the one mall in town had more bumper stickers for Luther Strange (four), Moore’s opponent in the Republican primary, than for Moore himself (one).

The Gadsden Mall opened in 1974. It has two department stores, Belk and Sears, one on each end. Between them, on Sunday night, I walked past Books-A-Million, Cellular Solutions, a Japanese steak house, Great American Cookies, Blacklight Mini-Golf, KnockerBall Gadsden, an eyebrow-styling kiosk, and a clothing store for young girls, called Justice. A diverse assortment of families wandered around the place, which felt trapped in time. Two young security guards made their rounds. “It gets rough in here on Saturday nights,” one of them told me, mentioning fighting, stealing, and gun-toting. “We still have an active ban list,” the other said, referencing a list of chronic rule-breakers not allowed on mall property. “But it doesn’t go back that far.”

He meant back to the early eighties, when Roy Moore was, many people say, a regular visitor to the mall. On Thursday, the Washington Post reported that, when Moore was a thirty-two-year-old assistant district attorney in Etowah County, he brought Leigh Corfman, who was fourteen years old at the time, to his home and sexually molested her. Three additional women told the Post that Moore had pursued them when they were in their teens and he was in his early thirties. (On Monday, another woman, Beverly Young Nelson, said that Moore assaulted her when she was sixteen years old. At a press conference, she held up a high-school yearbook that she said Moore signed before the alleged assault.) Two of the women say that they first met Moore at the Gadsden Mall, and the Post reports that several other women who used to work there remembered Moore’s frequent presence—“usually alone” and “well-dressed in slacks and a button-down shirt.”

This past weekend, I spoke or messaged with more than a dozen people—including a major political figure in the state—who told me that they had heard, over the years, that Moore had been banned from the mall because he repeatedly badgered teen-age girls. Some say that they heard this at the time, others in the years since. These people include five members of the local legal community, two cops who worked in the town, several people who hung out at the mall in the early eighties, and a number of former mall employees. (A request for comment from the Moore campaign was not answered.) Several of them asked that I leave their names out of this piece. The stories that they say they’ve heard for years have been swirling online in the days since the Post published its report. “Sources tell me Moore was actually banned from the Gadsden Mall and the YMCA for his inappropriate behavior of soliciting sex from young girls,” the independent Alabama journalist Glynn Wilson wrote on his Web site on Sunday. (Wilson declined to divulge his sources.) Teresa Jones, a deputy district attorney for Etowah County in the early eighties, told CNN last week that “it was common knowledge that Roy dated high-school girls.” Jones told me that she couldn’t confirm the alleged mall banning, but said, “It’s a rumor I’ve heard for years.”


Source

I wonder if Roy Moore regrets running for Senate now.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
November 14 2017 01:05 GMT
#184606
I’m rather baffled that a figure like Moore could have gone this long in the public sphere without any of these allegations coming to light.
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-14 01:14:05
November 14 2017 01:12 GMT
#184607
This was the first time Moore ever threw his hat into a big election (unless you count Alabama chief justice, from which he was suspended twice) where he didn't get dumpstered in the primary. Between no need for great oppo previously and the intimidation of making these sorts of allegations/how fucked up it makes your life, it's not that surprising to me.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 14 2017 01:13 GMT
#184608
Kevin Spacey and Woody Allen exist and were successful for decades. Moore isnt any different from all the other harassers reaping what they sowed in late 2017.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32746 Posts
November 14 2017 01:17 GMT
#184609
It is easy to be skeptical of conveniently timed announcements like what we've seen out of the Moore accusers, but it's the floodgate effect from Weinstein and everyone feeling it's the opportune moment to let it all out.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23654 Posts
November 14 2017 01:21 GMT
#184610
People will act surprised if/when Biden gets put on blast for being a creeper. I mean you can see video/pictures of him doing things that are obvious af red flags/inappropriate.

The one of Sessions slapping away Biden's hands from his grandkid feels pretty telling.

I thought Moore being a vocal opponent of the first amendment would be enough to put off anyone who respected the constitution and rule of law. I wouldn't expect these stories to change opinions, maybe depress turnout for Republicans slightly.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
November 14 2017 01:31 GMT
#184611
On November 14 2017 05:55 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2017 04:42 Danglars wrote:
On November 14 2017 04:21 Liquid`Drone wrote:
On November 14 2017 04:01 Toadesstern wrote:
On November 14 2017 03:43 Buckyman wrote:
...or Alabama collectively considers the pedophilia allegations to be Fake News™.
...or Alabama holds strongly the view that the accused is innocent until proven guilty.
...or they think Doug Jones has done something even worse.
...or after Bill Clinton's shining example they no longer think sexual misconduct should disqualify someone from holding office.

I think there's a bit of a difference between what he allegedly did and getting a blowjob from a (I presume?) consenting adult


monica lewinsky isn't the big bill clinton scandal anymore. He is fully established as a predator-rapist in right wing circles, and I think there actually seems to be quite some meat on the bone of that accusation.
The issue is more the idea that Bill's past transgressions in any way justify electing a sexual predator today than the claim that Bill is a sexual predator. He left office 17 years ago.



Democrats voted the woman that threatened and covered up the rape accusers to the 2016 Democratic party nominee.

Pretty fucked up if you ask me. I wouldn't vote Moore, but damn if they know the political double standard present.


Hillary's actions towards Broderick, even if fully accepting them, cannot in be equated with that of Moore, Bill Clinton, or even the self admitted ones from Donald Trump. Completely unfair comparison.

If you can vote for a woman that will cover up, threaten into silence, and destroy the credibility of rape victims so her husband can offend again, you're nine tenths of the way there as far as I'm concerned.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
November 14 2017 01:32 GMT
#184612
On November 14 2017 10:12 TheTenthDoc wrote:
This was the first time Moore ever threw his hat into a big election (unless you count Alabama chief justice, from which he was suspended twice) where he didn't get dumpstered in the primary. Between no need for great oppo previously and the intimidation of making these sorts of allegations/how fucked up it makes your life, it's not that surprising to me.

Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court is a major election. There's few state posts higher in a state-wide election.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23654 Posts
November 14 2017 01:37 GMT
#184613
On November 14 2017 10:31 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2017 05:55 Liquid`Drone wrote:
On November 14 2017 04:42 Danglars wrote:
On November 14 2017 04:21 Liquid`Drone wrote:
On November 14 2017 04:01 Toadesstern wrote:
On November 14 2017 03:43 Buckyman wrote:
...or Alabama collectively considers the pedophilia allegations to be Fake News™.
...or Alabama holds strongly the view that the accused is innocent until proven guilty.
...or they think Doug Jones has done something even worse.
...or after Bill Clinton's shining example they no longer think sexual misconduct should disqualify someone from holding office.

I think there's a bit of a difference between what he allegedly did and getting a blowjob from a (I presume?) consenting adult


monica lewinsky isn't the big bill clinton scandal anymore. He is fully established as a predator-rapist in right wing circles, and I think there actually seems to be quite some meat on the bone of that accusation.
The issue is more the idea that Bill's past transgressions in any way justify electing a sexual predator today than the claim that Bill is a sexual predator. He left office 17 years ago.

https://twitter.com/atensnut/status/929899833950982145

Democrats voted the woman that threatened and covered up the rape accusers to the 2016 Democratic party nominee.

Pretty fucked up if you ask me. I wouldn't vote Moore, but damn if they know the political double standard present.


Hillary's actions towards Broderick, even if fully accepting them, cannot in be equated with that of Moore, Bill Clinton, or even the self admitted ones from Donald Trump. Completely unfair comparison.

If you can vote for a woman that will cover up, threaten into silence, and destroy the credibility of rape victims so her husband can offend again, you're nine tenths of the way there as far as I'm concerned.


You know I'm no fan of Hillary but I think the evidence of how bad she was about that is tenuous. I mean it's clear she didn't come out in support of the victims and "Believe women" wasn't a 90's Democrat slogan but I think her hiring Brock says more about her morals about people who do such things than her reaction to Bill's infidelity/victims.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
November 14 2017 01:40 GMT
#184614
On November 14 2017 05:39 Nevuk wrote:
But seriously, did every GOP politician forget how to do oppo research on other GOP during primaries in the last 2 years? This shit should've come out a long time ago.

You might even say it makes people suspicious.

I find the primary account credible enough for my base disbelief.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11420 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-14 01:45:02
November 14 2017 01:42 GMT
#184615
On November 14 2017 07:19 Kyadytim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2017 05:17 Falling wrote:
On November 13 2017 18:56 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 13 2017 18:38 Falling wrote:
On November 13 2017 15:40 Kyadytim wrote:
On November 13 2017 14:19 Buckyman wrote:
On November 13 2017 14:07 Slaughter wrote:
Yea well the glorification of the US and Capitalism has taught people to be selfish because everyone should be/are selfish. So people really don't give a fuck about things like that and just say "them's the breaks I was lucky that time"


This appears to be based on a fundamental misunderstanding of capitalism. Capitalism is how we entice selfish people to contribute to the rest of society.

Capitalism is how selfish people provide moral justification for the accumulation of wealth at the expense of society.

Why is wealth accumulation by default at the expense of society? Theoretically we are freely exchanging goods (or labour in order to get goods) that we have a surplus and couldn't use anyways. If we are generating wealth and I get what I want and you get what you want in an exchange that we are reasonably happy why would that be at the expense of each other?


What planet is this happening on?

Right here, right now. It's called job specialization. I work at a particular job, but I can't be bothered to fix my own car, so I pay someone else to do so. I gain because I don't have time to learn to fix my car (not have I invested in all the tools needed), and so I benefit from his labour. I'm salaried, so my potential earnings is limited unless I hustle on the side. But if that mechanic does well and is able to hire a bunch of journeymen mechanics and/or apprentices and double the income that I make, hell if he makes ten times what I make, I still haven't lost anything. I still get my car fixed, freeing up my time to do something else. And he gets my money, plus a bunch of other customer's money. And the journeymen mechanics are gainfully employed and may well strike out on their own if they are sufficiently enterprising. There's no loss to me, if I get what I want for a reasonable price, and they got rich. I got what I wanted, and I can focus my labour elsewhere.

It's all very nice looking at the relationship between two laborers, but how about the relationship between you and your employer? If your employer starts giving you 10 more hours of work a week with no compensation, that's fine because value is still being created? I'd call that your employer generating value at your expense.

Well, I teach, so it's not so much that I'm given more hours, so much as I take on more hours. But the public will never want to pay sufficient money to compensate my out of class hours, even if I am (as I am currently) coaching two volleyball teams and am the athletic director on top of full time teaching.

But teaching is weird in that it relies upon tax money, in full or in part, so it isn't exactly free market (even our private schools have 50% government funding for the students, though nothing for capital expenses). Salaried work is weird in general, as I suppose it is more open to abuse from an employer. On the other hand, if I didn't like working those extra hours without pay, I could find some other job that paid hourly. I certainly wouldn't have double coached (in the same season) any other sport other than volleyball. But I enjoy it, so I do it- no one else was going to.
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
November 14 2017 01:42 GMT
#184616
On November 14 2017 10:31 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2017 05:55 Liquid`Drone wrote:
On November 14 2017 04:42 Danglars wrote:
On November 14 2017 04:21 Liquid`Drone wrote:
On November 14 2017 04:01 Toadesstern wrote:
On November 14 2017 03:43 Buckyman wrote:
...or Alabama collectively considers the pedophilia allegations to be Fake News™.
...or Alabama holds strongly the view that the accused is innocent until proven guilty.
...or they think Doug Jones has done something even worse.
...or after Bill Clinton's shining example they no longer think sexual misconduct should disqualify someone from holding office.

I think there's a bit of a difference between what he allegedly did and getting a blowjob from a (I presume?) consenting adult


monica lewinsky isn't the big bill clinton scandal anymore. He is fully established as a predator-rapist in right wing circles, and I think there actually seems to be quite some meat on the bone of that accusation.
The issue is more the idea that Bill's past transgressions in any way justify electing a sexual predator today than the claim that Bill is a sexual predator. He left office 17 years ago.

https://twitter.com/atensnut/status/929899833950982145

Democrats voted the woman that threatened and covered up the rape accusers to the 2016 Democratic party nominee.

Pretty fucked up if you ask me. I wouldn't vote Moore, but damn if they know the political double standard present.


Hillary's actions towards Broderick, even if fully accepting them, cannot in be equated with that of Moore, Bill Clinton, or even the self admitted ones from Donald Trump. Completely unfair comparison.

If you can vote for a woman that will cover up, threaten into silence, and destroy the credibility of rape victims so her husband can offend again, you're nine tenths of the way there as far as I'm concerned.


Hey look you repeated a false claim for which you have not and cannot provide support.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-14 01:47:22
November 14 2017 01:44 GMT
#184617
On November 14 2017 08:50 Leporello wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2017 08:05 Tachion wrote:
"WikiLeaks made a series of increasingly bold requests, including asking for Trump’s tax returns, urging the Trump campaign on Election Day to reject the results of the election as rigged, and requesting that the president-elect tell Australia to appoint Julian Assange ambassador to the United States."

Why in God's name would that be of any benefit to wikileaks? Oh, right, it wouldn't be. The whole sowing chaos thing was more of Russia's goal. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.


Seriously, this article is crazy-crazy.

Like, WTF are we still doing here? We're so past the point of reasonable impeachment. WikiLeaks, even if you're naive enough to think they're not doing Russia's bidding here, is not an American organization.

A foreign organization is telling the Trump campaign to convince its people, American citizens, to disregard election results. And what did Trump's campaign do? How did Trump's campaign react to this foreign-organization's subversive requests? They advertised them. Shortly after Jr's correspondence, Trump starts speaking and tweeting about WikiLeaks regularly.

The timeline of this implicates more than Jr. It was Trump himself that THEN went on a de-facto WikiLeaks Promotion Tour. This is so fucking rotten.


The only question as to collusion at this point is whether Trump and Trump Jr managed to pull off what they were willing to do and wanted to do.

Although it may be that the extent of Trump's collusion was his public exhortations and (continued) butt kissing of Putin, and behind the scenes it really was just a parade of clowns doing their best to collude (for example meeting with Russian representatives making an offer as part of the Russian government's support of Trump, and paying consultants to seek hackers on the dark web with access to Hillary's emails) but being unsuccessful in doing so.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 14 2017 01:58 GMT
#184618
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23654 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-14 02:01:00
November 14 2017 01:58 GMT
#184619
On November 14 2017 10:42 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2017 10:31 Danglars wrote:
On November 14 2017 05:55 Liquid`Drone wrote:
On November 14 2017 04:42 Danglars wrote:
On November 14 2017 04:21 Liquid`Drone wrote:
On November 14 2017 04:01 Toadesstern wrote:
On November 14 2017 03:43 Buckyman wrote:
...or Alabama collectively considers the pedophilia allegations to be Fake News™.
...or Alabama holds strongly the view that the accused is innocent until proven guilty.
...or they think Doug Jones has done something even worse.
...or after Bill Clinton's shining example they no longer think sexual misconduct should disqualify someone from holding office.

I think there's a bit of a difference between what he allegedly did and getting a blowjob from a (I presume?) consenting adult


monica lewinsky isn't the big bill clinton scandal anymore. He is fully established as a predator-rapist in right wing circles, and I think there actually seems to be quite some meat on the bone of that accusation.
The issue is more the idea that Bill's past transgressions in any way justify electing a sexual predator today than the claim that Bill is a sexual predator. He left office 17 years ago.

https://twitter.com/atensnut/status/929899833950982145

Democrats voted the woman that threatened and covered up the rape accusers to the 2016 Democratic party nominee.

Pretty fucked up if you ask me. I wouldn't vote Moore, but damn if they know the political double standard present.


Hillary's actions towards Broderick, even if fully accepting them, cannot in be equated with that of Moore, Bill Clinton, or even the self admitted ones from Donald Trump. Completely unfair comparison.

If you can vote for a woman that will cover up, threaten into silence, and destroy the credibility of rape victims so her husband can offend again, you're nine tenths of the way there as far as I'm concerned.


Hey look you repeated a false claim for which you have not and cannot provide support.


Do you think Joe Biden acts inappropriately around young female children and/or women in general?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
November 14 2017 02:00 GMT
#184620
On November 14 2017 10:42 Doodsmack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2017 10:31 Danglars wrote:
On November 14 2017 05:55 Liquid`Drone wrote:
On November 14 2017 04:42 Danglars wrote:
On November 14 2017 04:21 Liquid`Drone wrote:
On November 14 2017 04:01 Toadesstern wrote:
On November 14 2017 03:43 Buckyman wrote:
...or Alabama collectively considers the pedophilia allegations to be Fake News™.
...or Alabama holds strongly the view that the accused is innocent until proven guilty.
...or they think Doug Jones has done something even worse.
...or after Bill Clinton's shining example they no longer think sexual misconduct should disqualify someone from holding office.

I think there's a bit of a difference between what he allegedly did and getting a blowjob from a (I presume?) consenting adult


monica lewinsky isn't the big bill clinton scandal anymore. He is fully established as a predator-rapist in right wing circles, and I think there actually seems to be quite some meat on the bone of that accusation.
The issue is more the idea that Bill's past transgressions in any way justify electing a sexual predator today than the claim that Bill is a sexual predator. He left office 17 years ago.

https://twitter.com/atensnut/status/929899833950982145

Democrats voted the woman that threatened and covered up the rape accusers to the 2016 Democratic party nominee.

Pretty fucked up if you ask me. I wouldn't vote Moore, but damn if they know the political double standard present.


Hillary's actions towards Broderick, even if fully accepting them, cannot in be equated with that of Moore, Bill Clinton, or even the self admitted ones from Donald Trump. Completely unfair comparison.

If you can vote for a woman that will cover up, threaten into silence, and destroy the credibility of rape victims so her husband can offend again, you're nine tenths of the way there as far as I'm concerned.


Hey look you repeated a false claim for which you have not and cannot provide support.

The first step would be to show through action that you're only lacking support to be argued into believing these terrible things about the Clintons. I'm really not going to waste my breath with someone that thinks there's not a shred of evidence in support. I lived the 90s. I saw reporters detail with aplomb how Hillary Clinton's team took forward position on discrediting Clinton's accusers. I have to first believe there's some minds out there that examined the evidence and are willing to be convinced otherwise, and trust me when I say the basest Trump-Russia conspiracy theorists are very low on the list.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
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