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On November 13 2017 10:48 Uldridge wrote:
How hasn't it gotten better? Black people can sit on the front of the bus, right? They can vote now, can't they?
An incredible amount of change has happened for women, non-straight people and people of color. It's insane you're saying things are changing for the worse.
Again, if you don't set the building on fire and assassinate all those that are sitting on their thrones, you won't get shit done. You can scream and riot as loud as you want, they'll still drink out of their golden cups.
Usurp them however you deem fit because in the long run, it'll all be wasted energy. Making people go: "hey, I hadn't thought of it that way", won't make them trade in their comfortable life so they can risk it for something else. People have become entrenched in that comfort, they have no NEED for things to change. You need to reach a boiling point somehow, how do you see that happening?
well...
How hasn't it gotten better? Black people can sit on the front of the bus, right?
I'm going to do my best to take you seriously after that but it's going to be hard.
How about some of the more substantive improvements for Black people specifically you would point to between ~1975 and today?
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On November 13 2017 10:50 Slaughter wrote:
However, bring it up among the large amount of poorly educated and poor whites (of which there are a lot) who have struggled themselves to find success and they immediately think the term is implying that they have had it easy and everything has been handed to them, which conflicts with how their lives has been.
Determinism is a real thing. Does white privilege mean the same thing for everyone, or is it dependent on where they came from (region wise and descendant wise)?
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On November 13 2017 10:54 GreenHorizons wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 13 2017 10:48 Uldridge wrote:
How hasn't it gotten better? Black people can sit on the front of the bus, right? They can vote now, can't they?
An incredible amount of change has happened for women, non-straight people and people of color. It's insane you're saying things are changing for the worse.
Again, if you don't set the building on fire and assassinate all those that are sitting on their thrones, you won't get shit done. You can scream and riot as loud as you want, they'll still drink out of their golden cups.
Usurp them however you deem fit because in the long run, it'll all be wasted energy. Making people go: "hey, I hadn't thought of it that way", won't make them trade in their comfortable life so they can risk it for something else. People have become entrenched in that comfort, they have no NEED for things to change. You need to reach a boiling point somehow, how do you see that happening? well... How hasn't it gotten better? Black people can sit on the front of the bus, right? I'm going to do my best to take you seriously after that but it's going to be hard. How about some of the more substantive improvements for Black people specifically you would point to between ~1975 and today?
How about you don't show videos of a guy that talks before 1975 to illustrate your points.
I never talked about things improving at a certain point, I'm pretty sure they've stagnated or even (like you said, and I have no reason not to believe you) gotten worse. I stated that overall things have gotten better in general for minorities. Are we where we should be as a society? Hell no. Are people in much less of a bind and can they express themselves more freely than 40 years ago? I'd argue yes. Like I said before: let the fucking grey white racist people making documents to ensure their own asses to be well of croak and replace them with smarter and more caring people. General consensus only gets you so far.
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For others following this conversation I would recoment dear.white people on Netflix. Its legitimately about black people dealing with racism and talking about what to do about racism.
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On November 13 2017 10:59 Uldridge wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 10:54 GreenHorizons wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 13 2017 10:48 Uldridge wrote:
How hasn't it gotten better? Black people can sit on the front of the bus, right? They can vote now, can't they?
An incredible amount of change has happened for women, non-straight people and people of color. It's insane you're saying things are changing for the worse.
Again, if you don't set the building on fire and assassinate all those that are sitting on their thrones, you won't get shit done. You can scream and riot as loud as you want, they'll still drink out of their golden cups.
Usurp them however you deem fit because in the long run, it'll all be wasted energy. Making people go: "hey, I hadn't thought of it that way", won't make them trade in their comfortable life so they can risk it for something else. People have become entrenched in that comfort, they have no NEED for things to change. You need to reach a boiling point somehow, how do you see that happening? well... How hasn't it gotten better? Black people can sit on the front of the bus, right? I'm going to do my best to take you seriously after that but it's going to be hard. How about some of the more substantive improvements for Black people specifically you would point to between ~1975 and today? How about you don't show videos of a guy that talks before 1975 to illustrate your points. I never talked about things improving at a certain point, I'm pretty sure they've stagnated or even (like you said, and I have no reason not to believe you) gotten worse. I stated that overall things have gotten better in general for minorities. Are we where we should be as a society? Hell no. Are people in much less of a bind and can they express themselves more freely than 40 years ago? I'd argue yes. Like I said before: let the fucking grey white racist people making documents to ensure their own asses to be well of croak and replace them with smarter and more caring people. General consensus only gets you so far.
That's a mess.
You asked "How hasn't it gotten better?" I pointed out as I did before you asked that for decades it's been getting worse, and you're now mad about the video I posted before any of that?
In the video Baldwin says something to the effect of "It's been 100 years since the 15th amendment, it didn't work, I have no reason to think the Civil Rights Act will work either" and my point was that he was right. White people passed the Civil Rights Act then wiped their hand and considered racism fixed, it got marginally better for about a decade and been getting worse since.
I mention this because it wasn't polite conversation and passivity that got the 15th Amendment or the CRA, it was agitation until white America simply couldn't stand it any more.
The idea that we're one polite-rational discussion away from destroying white supremacy is naive. Like the redistribution of wealth, it's pretty clear the people with the power are going to demand polite discourse right up until the mobs swarm their clubs and the guillotines hit their neck.
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On November 13 2017 09:49 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 09:22 Danglars wrote:On November 13 2017 08:35 IgnE wrote:On November 13 2017 06:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
Man that article really triggered some folks.
I'm glad people read it enough to see that the author does think their kids can be friends with white people, just teaching them to have a healthy skepticism and to understand what "friendship" should really mean (comparably important in today's facebook 5000 "friends").
Mohdoo, I don't why you waited so long to let all this latent hostility toward black people to come out.
@LL All white people aren't "evil racists", just a large portion of white people (larger share of Trump voters) reinforce white supremacy in subtle to significant ways daily.
The troublesome ones are the pretentious Patricks that have convinced themselves they aren't saying/doing that support/perpetuate white supremacy because it makes them feel better about white America still not getting their act right. It's not obvious how this article is any better than a mirror article written by a white person about how "black people" scare them, and that unless a black person shows that they are "for" good social principles like law and order, respectful and professional dress, and proper diction, they can't be trusted. It's "not all black people" of course, but given that so many are opposed to the "rule of law," "hard work," and good manners, they are going to teach their white child to be wary of black people unless they show clear signs of being committed to the American project. I'm not saying there aren't critical differences, but it's surely not obvious. That’s one of the reasons I linked. I think that's at least one reason why they prefaced it with "I'm just figuring this out now after having a privileged childhood" (paraphrasing). I feel like going through the differences (if they aren't obviously apparent) between the mirror is a journey I'm not particularly interested in taking at the moment.
I don’t know how deep I want to get into the weasely ‘advocating aspects of white supremacy” or how Mohdoo could be unwittingly complicit in white supremacy ever. I’ve got to add my two cents as a white man pointing this articles out as portions of a disingenuous cultural dialogue .. having basically reacted as Mohdoo (initial post) and IgnE did, but from a different cultural experience.
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On November 13 2017 11:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
That's a mess.
You asked "How hasn't it gotten better?" I pointed out as I did before you asked that for decades it's been getting worse, and you're now mad about the video I posted before any of that?
In the video Baldwin says something to the effect of "It's been 100 years since the 15th amendment, it didn't work, I have no reason to think the Civil Rights Act will work either" and my point was that he was right. White people passed the Civil Rights Act then wiped their hand and considered racism fixed, it got marginally better for about a decade and been getting worse since.
I mention this because it wasn't polite conversation and passivity that got the 15th Amendment or the CRA, it was agitation until white America simply couldn't stand it any more.
But it did work, albeit not completely. And I can see that they thought that fixed racism, but your one Act doesn't change all the institutions.
Do you think that this time significant change will happen, when America can't stand it anymore, or that it will be just another 15th Amendment or CRA?
I didn't watch the entire video by the way, just the part you highlighted. I didn't see the connection directly. I also think that, even though it's true, it's no use in referring to events that happened 50 years ago, because times were completely different. I'm willing to bet sentiments and cultural understanding was also very different then. Sadly, we can't know that because we weren't there.
All I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's the correct way of handling things. And every time I get into a discussion with you it boils down to the same thing. I largely agree with you, I just don't agree with your methods.
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On November 13 2017 11:29 Uldridge wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 11:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
That's a mess.
You asked "How hasn't it gotten better?" I pointed out as I did before you asked that for decades it's been getting worse, and you're now mad about the video I posted before any of that?
In the video Baldwin says something to the effect of "It's been 100 years since the 15th amendment, it didn't work, I have no reason to think the Civil Rights Act will work either" and my point was that he was right. White people passed the Civil Rights Act then wiped their hand and considered racism fixed, it got marginally better for about a decade and been getting worse since.
I mention this because it wasn't polite conversation and passivity that got the 15th Amendment or the CRA, it was agitation until white America simply couldn't stand it any more. All I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's the correct way of handling things. And every time I get into a discussion with you it boils down to the same thing. I largely agree with you, I just don't agree with your methods.
All I'm trying to say is this conversation has happened countless times since before the US was the US. Turns out your side has always been wrong and been impediments to progress right up until they are like "oh shit, we have to bring out the guns and threaten these assholes lives or they won't act right".
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Norway28742 Posts
On November 13 2017 11:10 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 10:59 Uldridge wrote:On November 13 2017 10:54 GreenHorizons wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 13 2017 10:48 Uldridge wrote:
How hasn't it gotten better? Black people can sit on the front of the bus, right? They can vote now, can't they?
An incredible amount of change has happened for women, non-straight people and people of color. It's insane you're saying things are changing for the worse.
Again, if you don't set the building on fire and assassinate all those that are sitting on their thrones, you won't get shit done. You can scream and riot as loud as you want, they'll still drink out of their golden cups.
Usurp them however you deem fit because in the long run, it'll all be wasted energy. Making people go: "hey, I hadn't thought of it that way", won't make them trade in their comfortable life so they can risk it for something else. People have become entrenched in that comfort, they have no NEED for things to change. You need to reach a boiling point somehow, how do you see that happening? well... How hasn't it gotten better? Black people can sit on the front of the bus, right? I'm going to do my best to take you seriously after that but it's going to be hard. How about some of the more substantive improvements for Black people specifically you would point to between ~1975 and today? How about you don't show videos of a guy that talks before 1975 to illustrate your points. I never talked about things improving at a certain point, I'm pretty sure they've stagnated or even (like you said, and I have no reason not to believe you) gotten worse. I stated that overall things have gotten better in general for minorities. Are we where we should be as a society? Hell no. Are people in much less of a bind and can they express themselves more freely than 40 years ago? I'd argue yes. Like I said before: let the fucking grey white racist people making documents to ensure their own asses to be well of croak and replace them with smarter and more caring people. General consensus only gets you so far. That's a mess. You asked "How hasn't it gotten better?" I pointed out as I did before you asked that for decades it's been getting worse, and you're now mad about the video I posted before any of that? In the video Baldwin says something to the effect of "It's been 100 years since the 15th amendment, it didn't work, I have no reason to think the Civil Rights Act will work either" and my point was that he was right. White people passed the Civil Rights Act then wiped their hand and considered racism fixed, it got marginally better for about a decade and been getting worse since. I mention this because it wasn't polite conversation and passivity that got the 15th Amendment or the CRA, it was agitation until white America simply couldn't stand it any more. The idea that we're one polite-rational discussion away from destroying white supremacy is naive. Like the redistribution of wealth, it's pretty clear the people with the power are going to demand polite discourse right up until the mobs swarm their clubs and the guillotines hit their neck.
I'm totally on board with the idea that the french revolution eventually made stuff much better. But that also took a while, and I'm pretty certain I'd prefer Paris 1783 over Paris 1793. And the french revolution is arguably the single best and most important revolution the western world has seen - many others have had all the negatives but few if any of the positives.
I mean there are ways where I'm still a radical but I have grown to believe that incremental improvement is a better pathway for the future than radical revolutions are. I can't say I understand how waiting for the promised improvement that never comes feels though - but I also don't accept that there hasn't been improvement, even if looking only at black people in america. Obama could never happen in 1975. And yeah, Trump was to some degree a racist reaction to that (to what degree is how that statement is debatable), but I strongly believe that the 2020 backlash to Trump might be an equal middle finger to white rural america.
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And I'm saying, why don't you use your guns instead of showing them? And don't use them on me, but use them on the people that actually hold the power, people I didn't want in power.
I'm not saying to become more docile, I'm saying to become more aggressive. But you need more people than just a fraction to want to be involved, and that's just not the case, so no change will happen.
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Chance officer will be held accountable: zero.
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On November 13 2017 11:43 Uldridge wrote:
And I'm saying, why don't you use your guns instead of showing them? And don't use them on me, but use them on the people that actually hold the power, people I didn't want in power.
I'm not saying to become more docile, I'm saying to become more aggressive. But you need more people than just a fraction to want to be involved, and that's just not the case, so no change will happen.
Well you don't radicalize people by cajoling them you radicalize people by cudgeling them with the discomfort of the truth.
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On November 13 2017 11:58 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 11:43 Uldridge wrote:
And I'm saying, why don't you use your guns instead of showing them? And don't use them on me, but use them on the people that actually hold the power, people I didn't want in power.
I'm not saying to become more docile, I'm saying to become more aggressive. But you need more people than just a fraction to want to be involved, and that's just not the case, so no change will happen. Well you don't radicalize people by cajoling them you radicalize people by cudgeling them with the discomfort of the truth.
When I break Danglars and xDaunt they are going to be more effective and vocal warriors for justice and equity than anyone else here, probably myself included.
EDIT: meant to edit.
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Nah. That's shrugged away easily. It's like hearing about atrocities in whatever country the news decides to report on. You need enough people to care passionately to overthrow the current paradigm. Right now that's not happening, there's not enough mass behind your cause.
How many people in the US actually truly care about equality, enough so that they'd stand up and fight for it when push comes to shove?
It's either rapid change, or small incremental change. And I'm convinced that when all the people that are into office now get gradually replaced and enough new blood is pumped in the system, you'll see things change for the better. But that can take 20-30 years...
Edit: lol at the xDaunt & Danglars remark, you've probably rooted them even harder into the soil with that haha
Also, you can't be a warrior when you're just vocal. How can you be considered a warrior, when all I need to do is put my head in the sand?
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On November 13 2017 12:07 Uldridge wrote:
Nah. That's shrugged away easily. It's like hearing about atrocities in whatever country the news decides to report on. You need enough people to care passionately to overthrow the current paradigm. Right now that's not happening, there's not enough mass behind your cause.
How many people in the US actually truly care about equality, enough so that they'd stand up and fight for it when push comes to shove?
It's either rapid change, or small incremental change. And I'm convinced that when all the people that are into office now get gradually replaced and enough new blood is pumped in the system, you'll see things change for the better. But that can take 20-30 years...
I think people mistake my urgency for not understanding it's going to take time. You'd be surprised how easy it is to hide from the atrocities you talk about because they only last a news cycle or few. They've been all but completely drowned out by Trump as of late.
The human tragedies that have garnered attention has been through the lens of how it can be used against Trump.
Edit: lol at the xDaunt & Danglars remark, you've probably rooted them even harder into the soil with that haha
Also, you can't be a warrior when you're just vocal. How can you be considered a warrior, when all I need to do is put my head in the sand?
I think I see where you're going and I get it. I'm not even there yet. I'm still learning and have plenty to learn.
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There's a fun youtube video about US being obsessed with schadenfreude and how mainstream media has used it to make their ratings skyrocket.
Truthfully, I find the addiction to the hypercapitalistic mindset and the willingness of people to pander to it much more frightening than any inequality issue you're pursuing. Not that yours is a non-issue, but I find this one more urgent and of a much larger scale.
Here's the vid.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On November 13 2017 11:41 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 11:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2017 10:59 Uldridge wrote:On November 13 2017 10:54 GreenHorizons wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 13 2017 10:48 Uldridge wrote:
How hasn't it gotten better? Black people can sit on the front of the bus, right? They can vote now, can't they?
An incredible amount of change has happened for women, non-straight people and people of color. It's insane you're saying things are changing for the worse.
Again, if you don't set the building on fire and assassinate all those that are sitting on their thrones, you won't get shit done. You can scream and riot as loud as you want, they'll still drink out of their golden cups.
Usurp them however you deem fit because in the long run, it'll all be wasted energy. Making people go: "hey, I hadn't thought of it that way", won't make them trade in their comfortable life so they can risk it for something else. People have become entrenched in that comfort, they have no NEED for things to change. You need to reach a boiling point somehow, how do you see that happening? well... How hasn't it gotten better? Black people can sit on the front of the bus, right? I'm going to do my best to take you seriously after that but it's going to be hard. How about some of the more substantive improvements for Black people specifically you would point to between ~1975 and today? How about you don't show videos of a guy that talks before 1975 to illustrate your points. I never talked about things improving at a certain point, I'm pretty sure they've stagnated or even (like you said, and I have no reason not to believe you) gotten worse. I stated that overall things have gotten better in general for minorities. Are we where we should be as a society? Hell no. Are people in much less of a bind and can they express themselves more freely than 40 years ago? I'd argue yes. Like I said before: let the fucking grey white racist people making documents to ensure their own asses to be well of croak and replace them with smarter and more caring people. General consensus only gets you so far. That's a mess. You asked "How hasn't it gotten better?" I pointed out as I did before you asked that for decades it's been getting worse, and you're now mad about the video I posted before any of that? In the video Baldwin says something to the effect of "It's been 100 years since the 15th amendment, it didn't work, I have no reason to think the Civil Rights Act will work either" and my point was that he was right. White people passed the Civil Rights Act then wiped their hand and considered racism fixed, it got marginally better for about a decade and been getting worse since. I mention this because it wasn't polite conversation and passivity that got the 15th Amendment or the CRA, it was agitation until white America simply couldn't stand it any more. The idea that we're one polite-rational discussion away from destroying white supremacy is naive. Like the redistribution of wealth, it's pretty clear the people with the power are going to demand polite discourse right up until the mobs swarm their clubs and the guillotines hit their neck. I'm totally on board with the idea that the french revolution eventually made stuff much better. But that also took a while, and I'm pretty certain I'd prefer Paris 1783 over Paris 1793. And the french revolution is arguably the single best and most important revolution the western world has seen - many others have had all the negatives but few if any of the positives. I mean there are ways where I'm still a radical but I have grown to believe that incremental improvement is a better pathway for the future than radical revolutions are. I can't say I understand how waiting for the promised improvement that never comes feels though - but I also don't accept that there hasn't been improvement, even if looking only at black people in america. Obama could never happen in 1975. And yeah, Trump was to some degree a racist reaction to that (to what degree is how that statement is debatable), but I strongly believe that the 2020 backlash to Trump might be an equal middle finger to white rural america.
I'm not on board with calling any revolution that has happened good but I can recognize the horrid state of affairs that led to it happening. The events afterwords poisoned the revolution to such a degree that it can't be morally attributed as a positive event. It led to a military dictator leading his country to decades of war and an eventual reinstatement of the monarchy that it revolted against.
I'm of the mind that the British slow evolution into parliamentarian democracy was a far more reaching positive influence and was the model that most of the modern world build their freedoms on. Even as an american I can concede that Federalism didn't take on successfully in other nations where it was practiced. The slow grind over eons is an unavoidable creep that needs to be encouraged to grow and not rushed.
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Norway28742 Posts
I don't have time to really indulge in a discussion around the aftermath of the French Revolution right now, but I don't think you can understate how important the signal effect of monarchs and nobility learning that not changing their ways could very possibly lead to their violent executions. I have a hard time seeing the democratic shift of Europe happen without this (or some other) violent upheaval happening first.
But the take away from my post was supposed to be that the positive effects of a violent revolution come to fruition a long time after, presumably not really during the life time of the people involved, so even though I regard the French Revolution instrumental in shaping the much better democratic, liberal minded western europe, few of the people directly involved would perceive it that way.
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United States43587 Posts
On November 13 2017 09:44 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2017 08:27 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2017 08:23 Liquid`Drone wrote:On November 13 2017 07:49 KwarK wrote:On November 13 2017 07:46 Mohdoo wrote:On November 13 2017 07:16 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2017 06:59 Mohdoo wrote:On November 13 2017 06:57 GreenHorizons wrote:On November 13 2017 06:53 Mohdoo wrote:On November 13 2017 06:50 GreenHorizons wrote:
Mohdoo, I don't why you waited so long to let all this latent hostility toward black people to come out.
Just the ones that latch on to extremism as a form of empowerment. I struggled a lot with racism during my childhood and I never let it bring me down. I frown on the types who let their frustration get the better of them. I am better than that. They can be too. What was "extremism" in that article? + Show Spoiler +I feel like this is going to end up the same way the last times you made these foolish rants... The problem is that you aren't willing to see that a lot of the ideals you hold on to are only appealing to you because they finally make you feel in control of the situation. You don't need to feel in control of the situation. You can continue on, powerless against a lot of the forces negatively impacted, just like me, and work towards making the world a better place without the polarization. These ideas don't come across as extreme to you because they are what you see as the only way to actually feel like you're making a difference. They are extreme, they polarize situations and they make people less likely to listen to your message. So sure, you pat yourself on the back for feeling like you're making a difference, but you're not. Edit: to answer your question, the "with us or against us" is the extremism. That's not extreme, it's a statement of fact. You are choosing to interpret the situation that way because you need to have well defined definitions of friend and foe so that you feel more safe. This is all just a reaction to feeling powerless. You don't need to be so rigid in your definition of friend and foe. This all feels like how you have chosen to respond to a life of feeling powerless rather than a well thought out perspective on how to best accomplish goals. It's not that people are actually your enemies. It's that you are so frustrated that you aren't willing to drudge through all the nuance and difficulty of bringing people over to your cause who plain and simply aren't convinced yet. Is racism really an area where there are more than two sides? Where someone can legitimately say "I'm not pro-racism, I just don't think we should get rid of it"? "I'm not saying I think the police should deny the constitutional rights of blacks, I just think that we should stop investigating the cases of them doing that" I thought this post by yourself did a good job delineating the nuances in positions of various degrees of white supremacy endorsement mohdoo is asking for.. You can say that 'either you're a racist or you're not', but when it comes to what policies you actively support, there are lots of different degrees of racism. According to yourself you're like a 7 out of 9, at what point of this scale does the binary go from 0 to 1? 9. 9 is the passing grade there. When the kid actually corrects the injustice at their own expense because they know it's the right thing to do and that, although they worked hard, they did not earn the benefit they received at the expense of the other kid. I'm a terrible ally. I'll freely admit that. I believe in all sorts of causes which I do absolutely nothing to further, while privately enjoying the privileges I receive due to the failure of those causes. I'll probably go max hypocrisy and send my kids to a private school and hell, it'll probably be racially segregated when I do. I'll say it's fucked up that the world is the way it is while shamelessly abusing the benefits of my own hypocrisy. The reality is that racism is a zero sum game. If you're a white guy who thinks black people should be able to sit at the front of the bus then the correct solution is obvious, you stand up and you give Rosa Parks your seat. If you refuse to give up your seat then no amount of words is sufficient. So to what degree must you favor violent property redistribution before you are an ally? I mean, I'm such a leftist that I probably come out better than mostly everyone else according to your definition, but I don't really agree with it anyway. I strongly believe in favoring policies that empower black people (and any other disenfranchised group), I want increased taxes across the board because I want a more equitable distribution of goods, even though this clearly disfavors my own privileged self. However, I also favor a 'whoever sat down first gets to keep their seat' as the literal answer to the bus dilemma, although I could definitely see my current self giving up my seat if I found myself in race segregated USA. (with the knowledge that my current self probably wouldn't be my current self if that's where I grew up.) Imo there's a very big difference between your average trump voter and your average mohdoo, much bigger than the difference between your average mohdoo and your average GH.
Not sure why you're bringing up violent propert redistribution but that's not a part of my argument.
Let's say you and a more qualified female coworker go for the same promotion. Your boss tells you not to worry and that you'll get it because your coworker will probably just end up getting pregnant and he wants someone more reliable. The duty there as an ally couldn't be more simple, if you refuse to accept the promotion then she'll get it. Anything less and you're making a choice to be complicit in the sexist establishment.
It's a zero sum game. You have to be willing to give something up.
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