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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9165

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
November 06 2017 22:50 GMT
#183281
On November 07 2017 07:37 Biff The Understudy wrote:
I still refuse to believe that anyone is stupid enough to think that the problem to gun violence is more guns. I give all those people the benefit of the doubt and assume they are hypocritical.

there's ample evidence that a lot of people believe a lot of stupid things which don't hold up in the real world and aren't really sensible. and a lot of people will believe things if they've been told them all along. so i'm gonna disagree, and assert that stupid is applicable in a fair number of these cases (though perhaps not in this case).
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22083 Posts
November 06 2017 22:51 GMT
#183282
On November 07 2017 07:37 Biff The Understudy wrote:
I still refuse to believe that anyone is stupid enough to think that the problem to gun violence is more guns. I give all those people the benefit of the doubt and assume they are hypocritical.

The easy answer is that the NRA bribes, I mean donates, to them.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9768 Posts
November 06 2017 22:52 GMT
#183283
On November 07 2017 07:44 ShoCkeyy wrote:
The shooter was a huge piece of shit, but nothing on the paradise papers. Fun...


I think people fall into one of two categories when it comes to leaks like the paradise papers:
1: Indifferent because they somehow believe that its possible to deserve that much money.
2: Indifferent because the system is irreversibly fucked so what's the point?

So far, the only angry person I've seen was one of the guys who BBC Panorama tried to interview about it.
RIP Meatloaf <3
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7966 Posts
November 06 2017 23:05 GMT
#183284
On November 07 2017 07:51 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2017 07:37 Biff The Understudy wrote:
I still refuse to believe that anyone is stupid enough to think that the problem to gun violence is more guns. I give all those people the benefit of the doubt and assume they are hypocritical.

The easy answer is that the NRA bribes, I mean donates, to them.

Reading the "thought and prayers" of the GOP congressmen makes me want to puke. Those people are so shameless and cynical, it's hard to even believe.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23621 Posts
November 06 2017 23:09 GMT
#183285
On November 07 2017 07:52 Jockmcplop wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2017 07:44 ShoCkeyy wrote:
The shooter was a huge piece of shit, but nothing on the paradise papers. Fun...


I think people fall into one of two categories when it comes to leaks like the paradise papers:
1: Indifferent because they somehow believe that its possible to deserve that much money.
2: Indifferent because the system is irreversibly fucked so what's the point?

So far, the only angry person I've seen was one of the guys who BBC Panorama tried to interview about it.


I mean it's at the core of my critique of the US and politics in general but no one gives a shit other than how it might make Trump look bad. No one (politically) really wants to go there though because they all represent people who do this shit on the reg.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9768 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-06 23:13:42
November 06 2017 23:13 GMT
#183286
On November 07 2017 08:09 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2017 07:52 Jockmcplop wrote:
On November 07 2017 07:44 ShoCkeyy wrote:
The shooter was a huge piece of shit, but nothing on the paradise papers. Fun...


I think people fall into one of two categories when it comes to leaks like the paradise papers:
1: Indifferent because they somehow believe that its possible to deserve that much money.
2: Indifferent because the system is irreversibly fucked so what's the point?

So far, the only angry person I've seen was one of the guys who BBC Panorama tried to interview about it.


I mean it's at the core of my critique of the US and politics in general but no one gives a shit other than how it might make Trump look bad. No one (politically) really wants to go there though because they all represent people who do this shit on the reg.


Where do you start when the people making the decisions are the same people who benefit from rigging the system?
Its rotten. You do get the odd politician who cares or even really tries to change things but they are so overwhelmingly outnumbered that its pointless trying.
RIP Meatloaf <3
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
November 06 2017 23:26 GMT
#183287
On November 07 2017 07:44 ShoCkeyy wrote:
The shooter was a huge piece of shit, but nothing on the paradise papers. Fun...

The ridiculous numbers contained in the Paradise Papers are going to go down quietly, make no mistake. These are the people with the real power, there's no way a stink is going to be allowed to be made by anyone.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23621 Posts
November 06 2017 23:28 GMT
#183288
On November 07 2017 08:13 Jockmcplop wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2017 08:09 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 07 2017 07:52 Jockmcplop wrote:
On November 07 2017 07:44 ShoCkeyy wrote:
The shooter was a huge piece of shit, but nothing on the paradise papers. Fun...


I think people fall into one of two categories when it comes to leaks like the paradise papers:
1: Indifferent because they somehow believe that its possible to deserve that much money.
2: Indifferent because the system is irreversibly fucked so what's the point?

So far, the only angry person I've seen was one of the guys who BBC Panorama tried to interview about it.


I mean it's at the core of my critique of the US and politics in general but no one gives a shit other than how it might make Trump look bad. No one (politically) really wants to go there though because they all represent people who do this shit on the reg.


Where do you start when the people making the decisions are the same people who benefit from rigging the system?
Its rotten. You do get the odd politician who cares or even really tries to change things but they are so overwhelmingly outnumbered that its pointless trying.


Start by telling yourself that "I am a revolutionary in the international proletarian revolution" and/or buy lube so it hurts less.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
November 06 2017 23:49 GMT
#183289
On November 07 2017 07:44 ShoCkeyy wrote:
The shooter was a huge piece of shit, but nothing on the paradise papers. Fun...

Just wait until your concerns are labeled Benghazi over and over.

Good fucking shit.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
kollin
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom8380 Posts
November 07 2017 00:09 GMT
#183290
On November 07 2017 08:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2017 08:13 Jockmcplop wrote:
On November 07 2017 08:09 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 07 2017 07:52 Jockmcplop wrote:
On November 07 2017 07:44 ShoCkeyy wrote:
The shooter was a huge piece of shit, but nothing on the paradise papers. Fun...


I think people fall into one of two categories when it comes to leaks like the paradise papers:
1: Indifferent because they somehow believe that its possible to deserve that much money.
2: Indifferent because the system is irreversibly fucked so what's the point?

So far, the only angry person I've seen was one of the guys who BBC Panorama tried to interview about it.


I mean it's at the core of my critique of the US and politics in general but no one gives a shit other than how it might make Trump look bad. No one (politically) really wants to go there though because they all represent people who do this shit on the reg.


Where do you start when the people making the decisions are the same people who benefit from rigging the system?
Its rotten. You do get the odd politician who cares or even really tries to change things but they are so overwhelmingly outnumbered that its pointless trying.


Start by telling yourself that "I am a revolutionary in the international proletarian revolution" and/or buy lube so it hurts less.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v34/n02/slavoj-zizek/the-revolt-of-the-salaried-bourgeoisie

Read this? Remarkably prescient
PhoenixVoid
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Canada32746 Posts
November 07 2017 00:11 GMT
#183291
On November 07 2017 07:44 ShoCkeyy wrote:
The shooter was a huge piece of shit, but nothing on the paradise papers. Fun...

Deeply imbedded corporate corruption and tax dodging doesn't carry the blood and guts eye-catching nature of 26 people killed in a church. Not to say the shooting isn't newsworthy or tragic, but when the Paradise Papers link celebrities, politicians, and even the Queen, and the world responds with resounding yawn, I'm not sure there's that much they can do to attract interest. Whether because the powers that be who want it suppressed, or the public that is either bored by it, cynical about the change it can create, or believe the corporations are simply being smart by playing the tax game, the PP were already in an uphill battle for attention.
I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
November 07 2017 00:32 GMT
#183292
The problem is that the discussion never comes up. So then it never gets discussed... The reason why the yawns happen is because those same people linked are always going to try and keep the status quo. By keeping the status quo, people like me who work a shit ton of hours to make what I make get fucked every year to pay for their bullshit, when I can be paying medical bills for the people who were shot.

Obviously we're not all thinking the same.
Life?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23621 Posts
November 07 2017 00:37 GMT
#183293
On November 07 2017 09:09 kollin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2017 08:28 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 07 2017 08:13 Jockmcplop wrote:
On November 07 2017 08:09 GreenHorizons wrote:
On November 07 2017 07:52 Jockmcplop wrote:
On November 07 2017 07:44 ShoCkeyy wrote:
The shooter was a huge piece of shit, but nothing on the paradise papers. Fun...


I think people fall into one of two categories when it comes to leaks like the paradise papers:
1: Indifferent because they somehow believe that its possible to deserve that much money.
2: Indifferent because the system is irreversibly fucked so what's the point?

So far, the only angry person I've seen was one of the guys who BBC Panorama tried to interview about it.


I mean it's at the core of my critique of the US and politics in general but no one gives a shit other than how it might make Trump look bad. No one (politically) really wants to go there though because they all represent people who do this shit on the reg.


Where do you start when the people making the decisions are the same people who benefit from rigging the system?
Its rotten. You do get the odd politician who cares or even really tries to change things but they are so overwhelmingly outnumbered that its pointless trying.


Start by telling yourself that "I am a revolutionary in the international proletarian revolution" and/or buy lube so it hurts less.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v34/n02/slavoj-zizek/the-revolt-of-the-salaried-bourgeoisie

Read this? Remarkably prescient


I hadn't, that's a pretty good take.

The proletarianisation of the lower salaried bourgeoisie is matched at the opposite extreme by the irrationally high remuneration of top managers and bankers (irrational since, as investigations have demonstrated in the US, it tends to be inversely proportional to a company’s success). Rather than submit these trends to moralising criticism, we should read them as signs that the capitalist system is no longer capable of self-regulated stability – it threatens, in other words, to run out of control.


Trump feels like a personification of this.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
November 07 2017 00:42 GMT
#183294
On November 07 2017 09:32 ShoCkeyy wrote:
The problem is that the discussion never comes up. So then it never gets discussed... The reason why the yawns happen is because those same people linked are always going to try and keep the status quo. By keeping the status quo, people like me who work a shit ton of hours to make what I make get fucked every year to pay for their bullshit, when I can be paying medical bills for the people who were shot.

Obviously we're not all thinking the same.

i'd say the discussion does come up, just not as much. where is it that you want the discussion to come up that it isn't coming up enough?
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
November 07 2017 00:50 GMT
#183295



The thing about it vs paradise papers is that PP are more of a slow, existential threat. There's problems but it's in laxly enforced regulations or similar things, which isn't something that the average citizen is really too concerned with. Being killed by a gunman is something of a more immediate concern.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
November 07 2017 01:32 GMT
#183296
We’re coming up in the anniversary! I remember those sweet old days before Trump started messing with people’s sanity.

Van Jones, CNN political commentator: The Democrats had this attitude, which I think is very unhealthy and unproductive, that any acknowledgement that Trump had a chance was somehow helping Trump, and that we all had to be on this one accord that it was impossible for him to win. I thought that was stupid. I've never seen that strategy work.


Matt Oczkowski, formerly of Cambridge Analytica (Trump campaign data firm): When you see outlets like the Huffington Post giving Trump a 1 percent probability of victory, which is not even physically possible, it's just like, “Wow, people are going to miss this massively.”

Bret Baier, Fox News chief political anchor: We got the exit polls at 5 p.m. in a big office on the executive floor. Rupert Murdoch and all the staff were there. It looked like we were going to call the race for Hillary Clinton at 10:30 or 11 p.m.


Steve Bannon: The exit polls were horrific. It was brutal. I think we were close in Iowa and Ohio and everything else was just brutal. Losing everywhere. Florida, Pennsylvania. I mean, it looked like a landslide.

Maggie Haberman, The New York Times: When I went downstairs at 8:15, Hillary was up in Florida. When I came back upstairs, it had flipped. I got a sense the second I set foot in the newsroom that something was going on.

David Remnick: Not only did I not have anything else ready, I don't think our site had anything, or much of anything, ready in case Trump won. The mood in the offices, I would say, was frenetic.

Dave Weigel: I’m in the parking lot of the Scalise party. There are Republicans drinking, some celebrating, some not paying attention. My editor was calling to see when I would hand in my story. One, I’m on a minor story that’s falling apart, and two, I’m probably in the wrong place. Three, I need to reorder the story, and four, how much did I tell people confidently about the election that I was wrong about?

Recollections are also organized by time reported.

Esquire
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23621 Posts
November 07 2017 02:39 GMT
#183297
On November 07 2017 10:32 Danglars wrote:
We’re coming up in the anniversary! I remember those sweet old days before Trump started messing with people’s sanity.

Show nested quote +
Van Jones, CNN political commentator: The Democrats had this attitude, which I think is very unhealthy and unproductive, that any acknowledgement that Trump had a chance was somehow helping Trump, and that we all had to be on this one accord that it was impossible for him to win. I thought that was stupid. I've never seen that strategy work.


Matt Oczkowski, formerly of Cambridge Analytica (Trump campaign data firm): When you see outlets like the Huffington Post giving Trump a 1 percent probability of victory, which is not even physically possible, it's just like, “Wow, people are going to miss this massively.”

Bret Baier, Fox News chief political anchor: We got the exit polls at 5 p.m. in a big office on the executive floor. Rupert Murdoch and all the staff were there. It looked like we were going to call the race for Hillary Clinton at 10:30 or 11 p.m.


Steve Bannon: The exit polls were horrific. It was brutal. I think we were close in Iowa and Ohio and everything else was just brutal. Losing everywhere. Florida, Pennsylvania. I mean, it looked like a landslide.

Maggie Haberman, The New York Times: When I went downstairs at 8:15, Hillary was up in Florida. When I came back upstairs, it had flipped. I got a sense the second I set foot in the newsroom that something was going on.

David Remnick: Not only did I not have anything else ready, I don't think our site had anything, or much of anything, ready in case Trump won. The mood in the offices, I would say, was frenetic.

Dave Weigel: I’m in the parking lot of the Scalise party. There are Republicans drinking, some celebrating, some not paying attention. My editor was calling to see when I would hand in my story. One, I’m on a minor story that’s falling apart, and two, I’m probably in the wrong place. Three, I need to reorder the story, and four, how much did I tell people confidently about the election that I was wrong about?

Recollections are also organized by time reported.

Esquire


Media kinda sorta gets it now. Hillary fanatics, not so much...


"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-07 03:02:18
November 07 2017 02:59 GMT
#183298
On November 07 2017 11:39 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2017 10:32 Danglars wrote:
We’re coming up in the anniversary! I remember those sweet old days before Trump started messing with people’s sanity.

Van Jones, CNN political commentator: The Democrats had this attitude, which I think is very unhealthy and unproductive, that any acknowledgement that Trump had a chance was somehow helping Trump, and that we all had to be on this one accord that it was impossible for him to win. I thought that was stupid. I've never seen that strategy work.


Matt Oczkowski, formerly of Cambridge Analytica (Trump campaign data firm): When you see outlets like the Huffington Post giving Trump a 1 percent probability of victory, which is not even physically possible, it's just like, “Wow, people are going to miss this massively.”

Bret Baier, Fox News chief political anchor: We got the exit polls at 5 p.m. in a big office on the executive floor. Rupert Murdoch and all the staff were there. It looked like we were going to call the race for Hillary Clinton at 10:30 or 11 p.m.


Steve Bannon: The exit polls were horrific. It was brutal. I think we were close in Iowa and Ohio and everything else was just brutal. Losing everywhere. Florida, Pennsylvania. I mean, it looked like a landslide.

Maggie Haberman, The New York Times: When I went downstairs at 8:15, Hillary was up in Florida. When I came back upstairs, it had flipped. I got a sense the second I set foot in the newsroom that something was going on.

David Remnick: Not only did I not have anything else ready, I don't think our site had anything, or much of anything, ready in case Trump won. The mood in the offices, I would say, was frenetic.

Dave Weigel: I’m in the parking lot of the Scalise party. There are Republicans drinking, some celebrating, some not paying attention. My editor was calling to see when I would hand in my story. One, I’m on a minor story that’s falling apart, and two, I’m probably in the wrong place. Three, I need to reorder the story, and four, how much did I tell people confidently about the election that I was wrong about?

Recollections are also organized by time reported.

Esquire


Media kinda sorta gets it now. Hillary fanatics, not so much...

https://twitter.com/verrit/status/927680032474050562

Wow, that’s amazing. It’s hard to believe such people still exist and yet, here we are. Such beauty.

Lefties don’t really attack Obama though. It’s mostly just that his his honeymoon period of being forgiven for his flaws is over. Most people still sorta like him.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
November 07 2017 03:02 GMT
#183299
A top adviser to Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross served on the board of Navigator Holdings, a shipping company whose clients include a Russian energy company with Kremlin ties, while she was working in the Trump administration.

Wendy Teramoto retained her seat on Navigator’s board after joining Commerce in mid-March as a part-time adviser to Ross, one of the most influential voices in President Donald Trump’s ear on global trade and economic policy. She also continued to serve as an executive of Ross’s private equity firm WL Ross & Co. after becoming a government employee.

Teramoto didn’t resign her seat on Navigator’s board until July 17, according to a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission. She left WL Ross that same month. On Aug. 1, she was formally named Ross’s chief of staff.

Her role with Navigator is notable because Ross has come under scrutiny after the release of a cache of documents by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists on Sunday that showed him profiting from investments in Navigator, which does significant business with Sibur, an energy company partly owned by Russian President Vladimir Putin’s son-in-law. Sibur has not been subject to U.S. sanctions on Russian energy companies, though one of its owners is, according to the ICIJ report.

Ross has denied any wrongdoing. He has recused himself from transoceanic shipping matters and has said that he met all disclosure requirements, despite some Democratic lawmakers’ claim that the link between his investments and Russia were not fully revealed.

The matter has also grabbed attention because relationships between senior members of Trump’s inner circle and Russia are under increasing scrutiny from prosecutors and congressional investigators.

The overlap between Teramoto’s board tenure and her time at the Commerce Department could be problematic because it’s yet another point of connection between Russian financial interests and the Trump administration, even if no government violations occurred. It’s also not known whether Teramoto was receiving compensation from Navigator or influencing company decisions while she was serving at Commerce.

A Commerce spokesman downplayed Teramoto’s role, describing her job from March 14 until Aug. 1 as a “part-time special government position as an advisor to the Secretary of Commerce.”

Before being named the secretary’s full-time chief-of-staff on Aug. 1, she resigned from outside non-federal positions, the spokesman said.

Teramoto did not respond to a request for comment, and the Commerce Department press shop did not respond to a more detailed list of questions regarding Teramoto’s employment.

Two government employees who have worked with Teramoto described her role at Commerce during the months she remained on Navigator’s board as more significant, saying she was Ross’s closest ally and aide.

Along with Ross, Teramoto attended President Donald Trump’s meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping at the president’s Mar-a-Lago resort in early April, according to one of the government employees, who was familiar with the guest list.

By mid-April, Teramoto was trading emails with officials at Commerce, Treasury, the National Security Council, and the U.S. Trade Representative.

The Commerce spokesman said Teramoto signed an ethics pledge upon her initial appointment to the agency and is subject to the same disqualification requirements under conflict of interest statutes as the secretary and other federal employees.

He also said Ross was not involved with Navigator negotiations with Sibur.

“Secretary Ross has never met the Sibur shareholders referenced in this story and, until now, did not know of their relationship,” the spokesman said. Ross has recused himself from matters involving trans-oceanic shipping vessels and supports the Trump administration’s sanctions against Russian entities, the spokesman said.

A spokeswoman at Navigator did not respond to questions about Teramoto’s compensation as a board member or the timing of her resignation. Executives of the petrochemical shipping company met in August at the Coral Beach and Tennis Club in Bermuda to vote in her replacement on the board, according to the company’s SEC filings.

Ross’s namesake company, WL Ross & Co., is Navigator’s biggest shareholder and has the right to designate two directors to the shipping company’s board. In January, Ross said he would divest holdings in WL Ross, its parent company and other firms.

Ross said Monday in an interview with the BBC that there is “nothing whatsoever improper” about the relationship between Navigator and Sibur.

Jeaneen Terrio, a spokeswoman for WL Ross parent company Invesco, declined to answer questions about Teramoto’s tenure at the company except to confirm that Teramoto left in July.

Richard Painter, who served as a White House chief ethics lawyer under President George W. Bush, said that even part-time employees are subject to conflict-of-interest statutes. Serving on the board of a company or holding stock could be a conflict, Painter said, if Teramoto worked on policy issues that had a direct effect on Navigator’s bottom line.

“The key to all of this is understanding what both she and Secretary Ross were doing at Commerce,” Painter said.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
November 07 2017 04:00 GMT
#183300
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
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