I don't really understand the point. He talks about the 'unwitting complicity' of his adversaries. But everyone knew exactly how Trump would react to more people kneeling, because he's transparent as fuck in his reactions. They chose to do so because they don't want to be belittled by this man calling them 'sons of bitches' and misusing his power to threaten peoples jobs for trying to raise awareness for a serious societal problem. That some of his base view this flame-crusade of his as a victory is not the problem of the people choosing to protest his actions, it's the problem of the base itself being so blind to reason that they get themselves fooled by his made-up problem of 'disrespecting the anthem' as if it's something important. Most other people just looked at it as another clear token of his awfulness as a person and the moral emptiness of most of his supporters.
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
I don't really understand the point. He talks about the 'unwitting complicity' of his adversaries. But everyone knew exactly how Trump would react to more people kneeling, because he's transparent as fuck in his reactions. They chose to do so because they don't want to be belittled by this man calling them 'sons of bitches' and misusing his power to threaten peoples jobs for trying to raise awareness for a serious societal problem. That some of his base view this flame-crusade of his as a victory is not the problem of the people choosing to protest his actions, it's the problem of the base itself being so blind to reason that they get themselves fooled by his made-up problem of 'disrespecting the anthem' as if it's something important. Most other people just looked at it as another clear token of his awfulness as a person and the moral emptiness of most of his supporters. | ||
IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On October 12 2017 03:56 Ryzel wrote: I'm going to have to agree with Mohdoo that the post is a big swing and a miss. To reach a juicier conclusion, you'll have to take the argument a little further. For example... Given: Posting on this thread has negligible political impact. Given: Posting in this thread can help further develop ones' political views. Given: All citizens have equal inherent political power (e.g. all else being equal, someone voting for Hillary because they agree with her policies has just as much impact as someone voting for Hillary because she's a woman/Democrat). Therefore: Unless extra effort is spent in one's life to create a greater political impact (joining a campaign party, donating/writing to Congressmen, protesting, etc), a person with weak, uninformed political views is just as politically meaningful as a person with nuanced, developed political views. Therefore: Unless those posting in this thread are making that extra effort to create greater political impact, participating in this thread is essentially politically meaningless mental masturbation (which, given we're on a computer gaming forum, makes sense). Of course you'd have no counter argument when everyone else states that your post is even more meaningless than everyone else's, but then you could just point out that you've only wasted maybe 10 minutes on your post while others here have wasted many many hours. There, I just saved you the trouble. You're welcome. TLDR: Instead of basing your premise on speculation of subjective motives that you can't prove, focus on more (though not still wholly) objective points. Yeah I mean what's the point of learning anything if it can't be directly and immediately tied to useful, measurable action, right? | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 12 2017 04:11 Danglars wrote: Not a big shocker, but good luck dealing with that problem. This is the problem with having agencies police themselves, which is what our government loves to do. The more troubling part of that piece is why don’t we have a national data base to track complaints and issues with all doctors. Why is the VA the only group doing this when it would be easier to create a national data base and have all agencies use it? Oh yeah, federal overreach. I forgot. | ||
Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10726 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
I remember this article. It's still applicable. | ||
Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On October 12 2017 04:29 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: I don't really understand the point. He talks about the 'unwitting complicity' of his adversaries. But everyone knew exactly how Trump would react to more people kneeling, because he's transparent as fuck in his reactions. They chose to do so because they don't want to be belittled by this man calling them 'sons of bitches' and misusing his power to threaten peoples jobs for trying to raise awareness for a serious societal problem. That some of his base view this flame-crusade of his as a victory is not the problem of the people choosing to protest his actions, it's the problem of the base itself being so blind to reason that they get themselves fooled by his made-up problem of 'disrespecting the anthem' as if it's something important. Most other people just looked at it as another clear token of his awfulness as a person and the moral emptiness of most of his supporters. I thought he illustrated that point well through the fourth, fifth, and sixth paragraphs particularly. What did you think they were about? You also have to think more broadly in the terms of the win because he wasn’t any less polarizing for wading in, nor is this all about the country at large to the negligence of the league-team-fan relationship dynamic. | ||
Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On October 12 2017 05:31 Tachion wrote: What is Trump even "winning" by participating in this? Only 36% of people in this poll approve of Trump's involvement in the NFL protests. 54% disapprove, and 10% unsure. That's pretty damn close to his overall approval rating right now. He's not gaining much ground, if any, through this endeavor. That is the end goal isn't it? A PR stunt to pull in more support from voters? i'ts not about winning; it's about being perceived as "winning" by a portion of the base, without regard to reality. and increasing polarization so that base will stick with him through whatever happens. in much politics today it's not about convincing reasonable people of anything or being right, it's about getting the crazy supporters to support more. | ||
Mohdoo
United States15690 Posts
On October 12 2017 05:31 Tachion wrote: What is Trump even "winning" by participating in this? Only 36% of people in this poll approve of Trump's involvement in the NFL protests. 54% disapprove, and 10% unsure. That's pretty damn close to his overall approval rating right now. He's not gaining much ground, if any, through this endeavor. That is the end goal isn't it? A PR stunt to pull in more support from voters? The "win" here is legitimizing the conservative position. Many conservatives complain that modern culture has deemed conservatives wrong until proven right. Issues like gay marriage have really framed conservatism as not a lot more than obstructionism. Trump, through polarizing and energizing certain situations, brings to light a fierce perspective that "NO, these conservative positions DO have legitimacy and SHOULD be talked about as a 2 different sides issue" | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 12 2017 05:31 Tachion wrote: What is Trump even "winning" by participating in this? Only 36% of people in this poll approve of Trump's involvement in the NFL protests. 54% disapprove, and 10% unsure. That's pretty damn close to his overall approval rating right now. He's not gaining much ground, if any, through this endeavor. That is the end goal isn't it? A PR stunt to pull in more support from voters? He turned a good part of the population against the NFL over a dispute that had nothing to do with him. | ||
Logo
United States7542 Posts
On October 12 2017 05:34 zlefin wrote: i'ts not about winning; it's about being perceived as "winning" by a portion of the base, without regard to reality. and increasing polarization so that base will stick with him through whatever happens. in much politics today it's not about convincing reasonable people of anything or being right, it's about getting the crazy supporters to support more. He's also accidentally winning (I don't buy Trump as a master distractor type theory) because the death toll of hurricane Maria isn't constant above the fold news even on days such as today when the official numbers have been bumped up to 45. | ||
zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On October 12 2017 05:47 Logo wrote: He's also accidentally winning (I don't buy Trump as a master distractor type theory) because the death toll of hurricane Maria isn't constant above the fold news even on days such as today when the official numbers have been bumped up to 45. indeed; and it is that way because that's what people consume for media, rather than focusing on things that really matter. (and of course a lot of people don't know it's part of the US) | ||
Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On October 12 2017 05:31 Tachion wrote: What is Trump even "winning" by participating in this? Only 36% of people in this poll approve of Trump's involvement in the NFL protests. 54% disapprove, and 10% unsure. That's pretty damn close to his overall approval rating right now. He's not gaining much ground, if any, through this endeavor. That is the end goal isn't it? A PR stunt to pull in more support from voters? He stumbled into the culture war about unpatriotic displays, and made the backlash about him and flag & country. The NFL started with a sympathetic play, then lost viewership numbers, ticket revenue, and threats from sponsors. Then Goodell reversed course, and owners like Jerry Jones fired back at protesting players. Trump owns the message. The NFL shot itself in the foot making a sympathy play. Goodell, red-faced, explains the protests are a barrier to constructive conversation on critical social issues (no kidding), and very visibly mea culpas to Trump. | ||
sertas
Sweden887 Posts
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KwarK
United States42787 Posts
On October 12 2017 05:54 sertas wrote: as a non american i dont get it. Isnt america supposed to be super patriotic? Why kneel during ur anthem? Thats like saying fu america, at least thats how i would see it. You think kneeling before something is unpatriotic? How do you feel about people flying the confederate flag? For a super patriotic country there do seem to be an awful lot of people flying the flags of traitors who fought a war against the country. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 12 2017 05:54 sertas wrote: as a non american i dont get it. Isnt america supposed to be super patriotic? Why kneel during ur anthem? Thats like saying fu america, at least thats how i would see it. Its protesting police violence against minorities, which is a big issue in the country. Kneeling is a sign of respect. Players how kneel want to protest respectfully, in silence. | ||
zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On October 12 2017 05:54 sertas wrote: as a non american i dont get it. Isnt america supposed to be super patriotic? Why kneel during ur anthem? Thats like saying fu america, at least thats how i would see it. some americans are super patriotic (or more accurately nationalistic), some aren't. the kneeling was about protesting the horrible mistreatment some people suffer, and on which no/insufficient action is taken. some people chose to read it as you would, some chose to read it otherwise. | ||
sertas
Sweden887 Posts
On October 12 2017 05:55 KwarK wrote: You think kneeling before something is unpatriotic? How do you feel about people flying the confederate flag? Obviously evreone allways stands during the national anthem. If ur in a hall sitting evreone is supposed to stand during the national anthem. Confederate flag is also not patriotic. | ||
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