In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
On October 11 2017 22:59 Uldridge wrote: The why has nothing to do with the how many. There might be deeply differing issues for both parties' supporters, showing us the symptoms of an ever divided country. Perhaps it's the sign of a political infrastructure that doesn't work (300 million people governed like this is not an easy task), perhaps it's something different entirely.
That is a complete logical and realistic point. However, that doesn’t stop people from regurgitating the false claim that more people voted for Trump than Clinton over and over.
And no, ignoring them is a bad idea. That is how false information takes root and becomes truth, by people saying it over and over again.
Plansix, I don't ignore any of my conservative friends who boast this garbage, I try to talk to them and give them good reasoning, without bringing too much up from democratic side. The problem is hese people are so far up there own asses, they believe their own lies.
It's literally talking to a brick wall. Any point you try to make they always have to try and counter. I remember one arguement was about the economy and how the president doesn't really affect it. He thinks Trump has a ton to do with how the economy is doing now. I provided links and debates during Bush era, from NPR that says otherwise. The first thing the person said was NPR is liberal garbage and was funded by Obama. The guy didn't even want to hear or see said debate. Called him out saying this was during Bush, and he still went spouting bullshit completely ignoring anything in saying.
It's hard to deal with people like that. I've had some liberal friends who are the same way too, but I have way more problems with getting conservatives to listen.
I mean, polling data doesn't really show Trump winning hearts and minds right now. Maria (or the NFL stuff, or both) seems to have eroded the brief polling bump he was experiencing after the other hurricanes.
On October 11 2017 12:14 GreenHorizons wrote: Bodied!
The reason why Trump won is because he is much more down to Earth than Hillary.
The average people look at Hillary's rallies with the celebrities and they say "Nope, can't relate."
She definitely didn't lose because she was too smart or too relatable or too loved, and I don't know why all these groups of famous multimillionaires keep making the same mistake of thinking the American people care to be lectured to by them.
On October 11 2017 22:59 Uldridge wrote: The why has nothing to do with the how many. There might be deeply differing issues for both parties' supporters, showing us the symptoms of an ever divided country. Perhaps it's the sign of a political infrastructure that doesn't work (300 million people governed like this is not an easy task), perhaps it's something different entirely.
330 million people governed "like this" is actually one big issue in my wing of the Republican party. It's better to have high amounts of control in your state government responsible for 500k-40mil rather than a big national government centered in a lobbyist, politician, and special interest swamp that tells you your health insurance plan is now illegal.
You have just over two out of every three citizens in West Virginia saying Trump was the man for the job, whereas just over nine out of every ten voters in Washington DC thought Hillary was the woman for the job. It's basically a task of managing two very different countries in political union locked in a legislative (& executive & judicial) war in the nation's capital. From where I've seen the rhetoric going, this kind of ~20 states against ~30 states is an acceptable enduring conflict.
The reason why Trump won is because he is much more down to Earth than Hillary.
The average people look at Hillary's rallies with the celebrities and they say "Nope, can't relate."
She definitely didn't lose because she was too smart or too relatable or too loved, and I don't know why all these groups of famous multimillionaires keep making the same mistake of thinking the American people care to be lectured to by them.
Because sometimes smart people have answers.
Hillary's response to the crisis in Appalachia was jobs programs, relocation aid, government sponsored retraining initiative, and tax incentives to businesses that bring jobs to the region. Basically what was shown to work in other regions desolated by reliance on a dead industry (happened to the north of England for example).
But the people wanted to know that coal was the bedrock of the American economy. So they voted for the guy that told them that.
On October 11 2017 23:29 ShoCkeyy wrote: Plansix, I don't ignore any of my conservative friends who boast this garbage, I try to talk to them and give them good reasoning, without bringing too much up from democratic side. The problem is hese people are so far up there own asses, they believe their own lies.
It's literally talking to a brick wall. Any point you try to make they always have to try and counter. I remember one arguement was about the economy and how the president doesn't really affect it. He thinks Trump has a ton to do with how the economy is doing now. I provided links and debates during Bush era, from NPR that says otherwise. The first thing the person said was NPR is liberal garbage and was funded by Obama. The guy didn't even want to hear or see said debate. Called him out saying this was during Bush, and he still went spouting bullshit completely ignoring anything in saying.
It's hard to deal with people like that. I've had some liberal friends who are the same way too, but I have way more problems with getting conservatives to listen.
My brother has the same problem, he believes the bullshit that people feed him. Or he really wants to believe it. But he also knows he can’t repeat that bullshit in front of the family because we will argue with him because it isn’t true. So he doesn’t get to really believe it. He can’t because he respects my parents and their views. He even grudgingly respects me. Just having people in their lives that push back against these lies does a lot more good than you give it credit.
It's nothing short of comical to read keyboard warriors of the same ideological demographic attempt discourse among one other to determine who can more accurately convince the forum his or her own brand of liberalism is unlike the others and morally superior. To assume this outlet you've so nostalgically latched onto carries even an ounce of worth, or that your alleged expertise is influencing anyone or anything inside or out of the incredibly small, remarkably insignificant and ideologically homogeneous world of computer games (or the even more acutely homogeneous demographic of netizens who contribute political discourse to computer game forums), is a pipe dream more poorly conceived than the short-lived successor to the game we all loved as kids. The entertainment spawned from egocentric delusion rivals even that so graciously provided to us by our beloved orange leader.
The reason why Trump won is because he is much more down to Earth than Hillary.
The average people look at Hillary's rallies with the celebrities and they say "Nope, can't relate."
She definitely didn't lose because she was too smart or too relatable or too loved, and I don't know why all these groups of famous multimillionaires keep making the same mistake of thinking the American people care to be lectured to by them.
Because sometimes smart people have answers.
Hillary's response to the crisis in Appalachia was jobs programs, relocation aid, government sponsored retraining initiative, and tax incentives to businesses that bring jobs to the region. Basically what was shown to work in other regions desolated by reliance on a dead industry (happened to the north of England for example). But the people wanted to know that coal was the bedrock of the American economy. So they voted for the guy that told them that.
This is the sad result of politicians brainwashing their brain dead constituents. These morons actually identify with the coal industry and the work that was done there. They take pride in coal and they see coal's position in the country as somehow partly their own. The idea of being retrained to do something else is insulting because they see coal as being a part of who they are.
On October 12 2017 00:48 always_winter wrote: It's nothing short of comical to read keyboard warriors of the same ideological demographic attempt discourse among one other to determine who can more accurately convince the forum his or her own brand of liberalism is unlike the others and morally superior. To assume this outlet you've so nostalgically latched onto carries even an ounce of worth, or that your alleged expertise is influencing anyone or anything inside or out of the incredibly small, remarkably insignificant and ideologically homogeneous world of computer games (or the even more acutely homogeneous demographic of netizens who contribute political discourse to computer game forums), is a pipe dream more poorly conceived than the short-lived successor to the game we all loved as kids. The entertainment spawned from egocentric delusion rivals even that so graciously provided to us by our beloved orange leader.
thanks for your valuable insight into our own psyche’s. i wish i knew it was coming, i’d have laid on a chaise or something. do we have to pay you now? or was this pro-bono?
wait is there some medical equivalent to pro bono?
On October 12 2017 00:48 always_winter wrote: It's nothing short of comical to read keyboard warriors of the same ideological demographic attempt discourse among one other to determine who can more accurately convince the forum his or her own brand of liberalism is unlike the others and morally superior. To assume this outlet you've so nostalgically latched onto carries even an ounce of worth, or that your alleged expertise is influencing anyone or anything inside or out of the incredibly small, remarkably insignificant and ideologically homogeneous world of computer games (or the even more acutely homogeneous demographic of netizens who contribute political discourse to computer game forums), is a pipe dream more poorly conceived than the short-lived successor to the game we all loved as kids. The entertainment spawned from egocentric delusion rivals even that so graciously provided to us by our beloved orange leader.
lol, this sounds like it is coming from someone who just finished the sophomore year of their philosophy degree. Nothing you are saying here is remotely new, profound or worthwhile. You completely miss the point while going way out of your way to appear above it all in a cringe inducingly condescending way. You gave it a good shot, but ultimately a big swing and a miss.
I do love a good “Look at all these silly people with opinions. Thank god I am above it all. Let me tell them how silly they all are,” post. Its like someone watched South Park and thought that was some high level counter culture media, speaking truth to power.
On October 12 2017 00:58 Plansix wrote: I do love a good “Look at all these silly people with opinions. Thank god I am above it all. Let me tell them how silly they all are,” post. Its like someone watched South Park and thought that was some high level counter culture media, speaking truth to power.
This is a common thing for people in their late teens or early twenties to go through. Just gotta pat him on the head, tell him good job and nudge him away. My favorite part about posts like his is that whenever these developing young lads walk into these threads, they feel like they about to drop some huge wisdom bomb, only to end up embarrassed. Makes me smile every time.
On October 12 2017 00:48 always_winter wrote: It's nothing short of comical to read keyboard warriors of the same ideological demographic attempt discourse among one other to determine who can more accurately convince the forum his or her own brand of liberalism is unlike the others and morally superior. To assume this outlet you've so nostalgically latched onto carries even an ounce of worth, or that your alleged expertise is influencing anyone or anything inside or out of the incredibly small, remarkably insignificant and ideologically homogeneous world of computer games (or the even more acutely homogeneous demographic of netizens who contribute political discourse to computer game forums), is a pipe dream more poorly conceived than the short-lived successor to the game we all loved as kids. The entertainment spawned from egocentric delusion rivals even that so graciously provided to us by our beloved orange leader.
thanks for your valuable insight into our own psyche’s. i wish i knew it was coming, i’d have laid on a chaise or something. do we have to pay you now? or was this pro-bono?
wait is there some medical equivalent to pro bono?
On October 11 2017 23:29 ShoCkeyy wrote: Plansix, I don't ignore any of my conservative friends who boast this garbage, I try to talk to them and give them good reasoning, without bringing too much up from democratic side. The problem is hese people are so far up there own asses, they believe their own lies.
It's literally talking to a brick wall. Any point you try to make they always have to try and counter. I remember one arguement was about the economy and how the president doesn't really affect it. He thinks Trump has a ton to do with how the economy is doing now. I provided links and debates during Bush era, from NPR that says otherwise. The first thing the person said was NPR is liberal garbage and was funded by Obama. The guy didn't even want to hear or see said debate. Called him out saying this was during Bush, and he still went spouting bullshit completely ignoring anything in saying.
It's hard to deal with people like that. I've had some liberal friends who are the same way too, but I have way more problems with getting conservatives to listen.
If anything, it simply shows just how big of a bubble all these celebrities live and the people who push this kind of bullshit. Its rather unfortunate that garnering celebrity support is more important than actually understanding why do not share the views in urban cultural centers.
I really don't know what you're talking about, but I like the term "urban cultural centers". I think a lot of people don't understand why they don't share the views of urban cultural centers though.
We're suffering from a heroin overdose, de-industrialization, rising crime, breaking apart of the family, but a moral lecture on our privilege and pretentious analysis of our bigotry is the real problem.
I voted against Trump and I hate Trump, but this kind of arrogance and refusal to empathize with Trump voters by defining them in ways that many of them cannot relate to is just infuriating.
I think that video is just as much a joke on, if not the substance, then at least the language of gender theory.
The Butler quote he reads is eminently understandable though. I don't know whether you think the "joke on . . . the language of gender theory" lands but its a funny comment coming from a poster named Deleuze. I actually think the video is more tragicomic than absurdist satire.
On October 12 2017 00:48 always_winter wrote: It's nothing short of comical to read keyboard warriors of the same ideological demographic attempt discourse among one other to determine who can more accurately convince the forum his or her own brand of liberalism is unlike the others and morally superior. To assume this outlet you've so nostalgically latched onto carries even an ounce of worth, or that your alleged expertise is influencing anyone or anything inside or out of the incredibly small, remarkably insignificant and ideologically homogeneous world of computer games (or the even more acutely homogeneous demographic of netizens who contribute political discourse to computer game forums), is a pipe dream more poorly conceived than the short-lived successor to the game we all loved as kids. The entertainment spawned from egocentric delusion rivals even that so graciously provided to us by our beloved orange leader.
I don't think many labor under the impression that people here can be convinced of moral superiority or is influencing anyone or anything. It's a debate/discussion/shitpostfest on the internet. I'll learn a new good-faith argument here and there and practice outlining my own arguments. It can also be entertaining just watching the parade and deluded members of the left here, particularly from people that rival Trump in delusion and the twisting of truth.
Your perception that people here are something of keyboard warriors that mistakenly think this thread changes things really speaks to your overall ignorance of people unlike you.
On October 12 2017 00:48 always_winter wrote: It's nothing short of comical to read keyboard warriors of the same ideological demographic attempt discourse among one other to determine who can more accurately convince the forum his or her own brand of liberalism is unlike the others and morally superior. To assume this outlet you've so nostalgically latched onto carries even an ounce of worth, or that your alleged expertise is influencing anyone or anything inside or out of the incredibly small, remarkably insignificant and ideologically homogeneous world of computer games (or the even more acutely homogeneous demographic of netizens who contribute political discourse to computer game forums), is a pipe dream more poorly conceived than the short-lived successor to the game we all loved as kids. The entertainment spawned from egocentric delusion rivals even that so graciously provided to us by our beloved orange leader.
EPT
