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On September 24 2017 09:10 Introvert wrote:
For the sake of the thread I won't go down this rabbit-hole yet again (since it seems to be picking up steam) but this thought that not going to the White House (or some other political action in an apolitical area) is some grand protest instead of grandstanding to a particular, outspoken base is utterly absurd.
Your interpretation is absurd. People don't think it's some "grand protest" it's just a small step in the right direction of people with lots of attention bringing light to a serious and systemic issue that others (like the President and many on the right) would rather marginalize. I hope it only picks up steam and more people are forced to acknowledge where they stand.
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On September 24 2017 09:11 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Politics have ALWAYS been part and parcel with sports. If you've got a problem with that its time to stop watching sports.
I would've thought all the ceremonies, anthems, and ads that are sprinkled into every major sporting event were pretty big tip-offs.
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On September 24 2017 09:13 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2017 09:11 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Politics have ALWAYS been part and parcel with sports. If you've got a problem with that its time to stop watching sports. I would've thought all the ceremonies, anthems, and ads that are sprinkled into every major sporting event were pretty big tip-offs.
These are generally patriotic and unifying. For a long time they weren't a left/right thing and it's a left-winger's tinted glasses that would see it as such.
Edit: ok hopefully done for real. We'll see 
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United States41996 Posts
On September 24 2017 09:10 Introvert wrote:
For the sake of the thread I won't go down this rabbit-hole yet again (since it seems to be picking up steam) but this thought that not going to the White House (or some other political action in an apolitical area) is some grand protest instead of grandstanding to a particular, outspoken base is utterly absurd.
I doubt that that is true. I think for the vast majority of general audience celebrities (apolitical tv show hosts, pop music stars, sportsmen etc) being apolitical is the way to go. People can then project their own politics onto you and you can vapidly say "I think more people should respect each other" and shit like that.
I would be extremely surprised if their image consultants told them that this was a good move. They could have just as easily bowed out gracefully with an excuse.
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On September 24 2017 08:52 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2017 08:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:42 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:38 Plansix wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 07:50 Introvert wrote:
It'd be great if they both shut up. No reason for a sports team to go the White House, no reason for it to be public debate, no reason for players to talk about it, and no reason for Trump to take to twitter about it. It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table). I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives. It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. You don't get to use this one any more. Really Reagan should have ended this shit, but it's really over now. Trump ended it forever. There is no more "stay in our lane" when Hollywood or sports folks decide its politics time. Actually, I'm arguing my own point. I can say it. On September 24 2017 08:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 07:50 Introvert wrote:
It'd be great if they both shut up. No reason for a sports team to go the White House, no reason for it to be public debate, no reason for players to talk about it, and no reason for Trump to take to twitter about it. It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table). I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives. It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. If you understood the first part you would see why more celebrity opinions are a forgone conclusion. You remember the president is an entertainer too right? I didn't say they were going anywhere. And yes, but he's also the elected president. And he ran for office, and he's doing things. I fail to see how the two are remotely comparably or how on earth this point is relevant to what I'm saying. I'm kind of at a loss. You lament them but, know they are going to continue/expand, but you can't grasp how the false meritocracy is related to both that trend and Republicans electing a wholly incompetent entertainer to be president? edit: hemming and hawing about White House visits doesn't draw attention to anything besides their own useless signaling about their part of the resistance It's got more people speaking out and displaying their discontent. So I completely disagree with your interpretation. Well if we really wanted to dig into this we'd examine "false meritocracy." It has a bunch of rich superstars bringing politics into an apolitical arena. It helps nothing. But you've had this explained to you on other issues. You don't see how this could possibly backfire? Steph Curry debating the White House visit did nothing but polarize people. Excellent work everyone. Show nested quote +On September 24 2017 08:51 KwarK wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 07:50 Introvert wrote:
It'd be great if they both shut up. No reason for a sports team to go the White House, no reason for it to be public debate, no reason for players to talk about it, and no reason for Trump to take to twitter about it. It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table). I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives. It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. Edit: + Show Spoiler +
Although as far as I'm aware the NFL doesn't have to allow the players to protest, either.
Civil rights activists have been told they're being divisive and that they need to be quiet and support unity since before the Civil War and the end of slavery. I think they're aware that civil rights is a divisive issue. They just think it shouldn't be. Then they can do so on private time. They aren't fighting an injustice within the NBA.
I remember when we were discussing the nazi march and people jumped to defend their freedom of assembly and protest. Now that sports personalities are in on it (have been) and trump makes a comment on it, we should rally and make sure they shut the hell up and do so on their own time? The standards are doubling at an alarming rate.
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United States41996 Posts
On September 24 2017 09:16 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2017 09:13 NewSunshine wrote:On September 24 2017 09:11 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Politics have ALWAYS been part and parcel with sports. If you've got a problem with that its time to stop watching sports. I would've thought all the ceremonies, anthems, and ads that are sprinkled into every major sporting event were pretty big tip-offs. These are generally patriotic and unifying. For a long time they weren't a left/right thing and it's a left-winger's tinted glasses that would see it as such.
Why don't BLM get to demand that the right stand with them in unity? Why must unity always be accepting the status quo? Unity has been politicized forever. The nation was told it needed to unify behind the Vietnam War for example.
Statists like to do whatever the fuck they like and then insist that anyone disagreeing with them is divisive.
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On September 24 2017 09:18 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2017 08:52 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:42 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:38 Plansix wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 07:50 Introvert wrote:
It'd be great if they both shut up. No reason for a sports team to go the White House, no reason for it to be public debate, no reason for players to talk about it, and no reason for Trump to take to twitter about it. It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table). I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives. It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. You don't get to use this one any more. Really Reagan should have ended this shit, but it's really over now. Trump ended it forever. There is no more "stay in our lane" when Hollywood or sports folks decide its politics time. Actually, I'm arguing my own point. I can say it. On September 24 2017 08:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 07:50 Introvert wrote:
It'd be great if they both shut up. No reason for a sports team to go the White House, no reason for it to be public debate, no reason for players to talk about it, and no reason for Trump to take to twitter about it. It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table). I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives. It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. If you understood the first part you would see why more celebrity opinions are a forgone conclusion. You remember the president is an entertainer too right? I didn't say they were going anywhere. And yes, but he's also the elected president. And he ran for office, and he's doing things. I fail to see how the two are remotely comparably or how on earth this point is relevant to what I'm saying. I'm kind of at a loss. You lament them but, know they are going to continue/expand, but you can't grasp how the false meritocracy is related to both that trend and Republicans electing a wholly incompetent entertainer to be president? edit: hemming and hawing about White House visits doesn't draw attention to anything besides their own useless signaling about their part of the resistance It's got more people speaking out and displaying their discontent. So I completely disagree with your interpretation. Well if we really wanted to dig into this we'd examine "false meritocracy." It has a bunch of rich superstars bringing politics into an apolitical arena. It helps nothing. But you've had this explained to you on other issues. You don't see how this could possibly backfire? Steph Curry debating the White House visit did nothing but polarize people. Excellent work everyone. On September 24 2017 08:51 KwarK wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 07:50 Introvert wrote:
It'd be great if they both shut up. No reason for a sports team to go the White House, no reason for it to be public debate, no reason for players to talk about it, and no reason for Trump to take to twitter about it. It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table). I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives. It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. Edit: + Show Spoiler + Civil rights activists have been told they're being divisive and that they need to be quiet and support unity since before the Civil War and the end of slavery. I think they're aware that civil rights is a divisive issue. They just think it shouldn't be. Then they can do so on private time. They aren't fighting an injustice within the NBA. I remember when we were discussing the nazi march and people jumped to defend their freedom of assembly and protest. Now that sports personalities are in on it (have been) and trump makes a comment on it, we should rally and make sure they shut the hell up and do so on their own time? The standards are doubling at an alarming rate.
These kind of arguments do need to be made with a great deal more care. I don't think anybody is saying that these sportspeople should be forbidden from protesting, merely that they should not do it.
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On September 24 2017 09:08 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2017 08:52 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:42 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:38 Plansix wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 07:50 Introvert wrote:
It'd be great if they both shut up. No reason for a sports team to go the White House, no reason for it to be public debate, no reason for players to talk about it, and no reason for Trump to take to twitter about it. It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table). I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives. It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. You don't get to use this one any more. Really Reagan should have ended this shit, but it's really over now. Trump ended it forever. There is no more "stay in our lane" when Hollywood or sports folks decide its politics time. Actually, I'm arguing my own point. I can say it. On September 24 2017 08:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 07:50 Introvert wrote:
It'd be great if they both shut up. No reason for a sports team to go the White House, no reason for it to be public debate, no reason for players to talk about it, and no reason for Trump to take to twitter about it. It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table). I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives. It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. If you understood the first part you would see why more celebrity opinions are a forgone conclusion. You remember the president is an entertainer too right? I didn't say they were going anywhere. And yes, but he's also the elected president. And he ran for office, and he's doing things. I fail to see how the two are remotely comparably or how on earth this point is relevant to what I'm saying. I'm kind of at a loss. You lament them but, know they are going to continue/expand, but you can't grasp how the false meritocracy is related to both that trend and Republicans electing a wholly incompetent entertainer to be president? edit: hemming and hawing about White House visits doesn't draw attention to anything besides their own useless signaling about their part of the resistance It's got more people speaking out and displaying their discontent. So I completely disagree with your interpretation. Well if we really wanted to dig into this we'd examine "false meritocracy." It has a bunch of rich superstars bringing politics into an apolitical arena. It helps nothing. But you've had this explained to you on other issues. You don't see how this could possibly backfire? Steph Curry debating the White House visit did nothing but polarize people. Excellent work everyone. On September 24 2017 08:51 KwarK wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 07:50 Introvert wrote:
It'd be great if they both shut up. No reason for a sports team to go the White House, no reason for it to be public debate, no reason for players to talk about it, and no reason for Trump to take to twitter about it. It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table). I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives. It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. Edit: + Show Spoiler + Civil rights activists have been told they're being divisive and that they need to be quiet and support unity since before the Civil War and the end of slavery. I think they're aware that civil rights is a divisive issue. They just think it shouldn't be. Then they can do so on private time. They aren't fighting an injustice within the NBA. Are you shaming Trump for being unpresidential all the time as well? Trump's presidency is nothing but a "president" spouting his private and uninformed opinion all the time. You sure appear to call out the sportsmen for displaying private opinions during game time. Which by the way in my book is totally within the bounds of the sport. Sport is about fairness and applying the rules equally to everyone. And people call out when that's not the case. Just like the few openly gay football players call out the stigma put on them to remain silent until their career is over. Thankfully we have whole teams stepping up together this time.
Trump was pretty much right on the money saying that all sides are to blamed for the death of the girl though.
User was warned for this post
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Funny how you didn't see nearly as much uproar from conservatives when a bunch of their ilk took over a federal building while armed to the teeth for a while as some sort of patriotic protest.
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On September 24 2017 09:16 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2017 09:13 NewSunshine wrote:On September 24 2017 09:11 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Politics have ALWAYS been part and parcel with sports. If you've got a problem with that its time to stop watching sports. I would've thought all the ceremonies, anthems, and ads that are sprinkled into every major sporting event were pretty big tip-offs. These are generally patriotic and unifying. For a long time they weren't a left/right thing, and it's a left-winger's tinted glasses that would see it as such.
Yeah, except it's never been that way...
But such is not the state of the case. I say it with a sad sense of the disparity between us. I am not included within the pale of this glorious anniversary! Your high independence only reveals the immeasurable distance between us. The blessings in which you, this day, rejoice, are not enjoyed in common.-The rich inheritance of justice, liberty, prosperity and independence, bequeathed by your fathers, is shared by you, not by me. The sunlight that brought light and healing to you, has brought stripes and death to me. This Fourth July is yours, not mine. You may rejoice, I must mourn. To drag a man in fetters into the grand illuminated temple of liberty, and call upon him to join you in joyous anthems, were inhuman mockery and sacrilegious irony. Do you mean, citizens, to mock me, by asking me to speak to-day? If so, there is a parallel to your conduct. And let me warn you that it is dangerous to copy the example of a nation whose crimes, towering up to heaven, were thrown down by the breath of the Almighty, burying that nation in irrevocable ruin! I can to-day take up the plaintive lament of a peeled and woe-smitten people!
... Fellow-citizens, above your national, tumultuous joy, I hear the mournful wail of millions! whose chains, heavy and grievous yesterday, are, to-day, rendered more intolerable by the jubilee shouts that reach them. If I do forget, if I do not faithfully remember those bleeding children of sorrow this day, "may my right hand forget her cunning, and may my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth!" To forget them, to pass lightly over their wrongs, and to chime in with the popular theme, would be treason most scandalous and shocking, and would make me a reproach before God and the world.
Only in the minds of those afflicted by our culture of white supremacy would someone think patriotism has always been unifying (rather than a reminder of our habitual lying to ourselves)
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On September 24 2017 09:22 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2017 09:08 Artisreal wrote:On September 24 2017 08:52 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:42 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:38 Plansix wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?
There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table).
I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives.
It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. You don't get to use this one any more. Really Reagan should have ended this shit, but it's really over now. Trump ended it forever. There is no more "stay in our lane" when Hollywood or sports folks decide its politics time. Actually, I'm arguing my own point. I can say it. On September 24 2017 08:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?
There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table).
I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives.
It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. If you understood the first part you would see why more celebrity opinions are a forgone conclusion. You remember the president is an entertainer too right? I didn't say they were going anywhere. And yes, but he's also the elected president. And he ran for office, and he's doing things. I fail to see how the two are remotely comparably or how on earth this point is relevant to what I'm saying. I'm kind of at a loss. You lament them but, know they are going to continue/expand, but you can't grasp how the false meritocracy is related to both that trend and Republicans electing a wholly incompetent entertainer to be president? edit: hemming and hawing about White House visits doesn't draw attention to anything besides their own useless signaling about their part of the resistance It's got more people speaking out and displaying their discontent. So I completely disagree with your interpretation. Well if we really wanted to dig into this we'd examine "false meritocracy." It has a bunch of rich superstars bringing politics into an apolitical arena. It helps nothing. But you've had this explained to you on other issues. You don't see how this could possibly backfire? Steph Curry debating the White House visit did nothing but polarize people. Excellent work everyone. On September 24 2017 08:51 KwarK wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 07:50 Introvert wrote:
It'd be great if they both shut up. No reason for a sports team to go the White House, no reason for it to be public debate, no reason for players to talk about it, and no reason for Trump to take to twitter about it. It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table). I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives. It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. Edit: + Show Spoiler + Civil rights activists have been told they're being divisive and that they need to be quiet and support unity since before the Civil War and the end of slavery. I think they're aware that civil rights is a divisive issue. They just think it shouldn't be. Then they can do so on private time. They aren't fighting an injustice within the NBA. Are you shaming Trump for being unpresidential all the time as well? Trump's presidency is nothing but a "president" spouting his private and uninformed opinion all the time. You sure appear to call out the sportsmen for displaying private opinions during game time. Which by the way in my book is totally within the bounds of the sport. Sport is about fairness and applying the rules equally to everyone. And people call out when that's not the case. Just like the few openly gay football players call out the stigma put on them to remain silent until their career is over. Thankfully we have whole teams stepping up together this time. Trump was pretty much right on the money saying that all sides are to blamed for the death of the girl though.
You're right. After all, The Antifa told that Nazi to run the woman over. It's both sides.
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On September 24 2017 09:21 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2017 09:18 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On September 24 2017 08:52 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:42 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:38 Plansix wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?
There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table).
I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives.
It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. You don't get to use this one any more. Really Reagan should have ended this shit, but it's really over now. Trump ended it forever. There is no more "stay in our lane" when Hollywood or sports folks decide its politics time. Actually, I'm arguing my own point. I can say it. On September 24 2017 08:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?
There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table).
I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives.
It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. If you understood the first part you would see why more celebrity opinions are a forgone conclusion. You remember the president is an entertainer too right? I didn't say they were going anywhere. And yes, but he's also the elected president. And he ran for office, and he's doing things. I fail to see how the two are remotely comparably or how on earth this point is relevant to what I'm saying. I'm kind of at a loss. You lament them but, know they are going to continue/expand, but you can't grasp how the false meritocracy is related to both that trend and Republicans electing a wholly incompetent entertainer to be president? edit: hemming and hawing about White House visits doesn't draw attention to anything besides their own useless signaling about their part of the resistance It's got more people speaking out and displaying their discontent. So I completely disagree with your interpretation. Well if we really wanted to dig into this we'd examine "false meritocracy." It has a bunch of rich superstars bringing politics into an apolitical arena. It helps nothing. But you've had this explained to you on other issues. You don't see how this could possibly backfire? Steph Curry debating the White House visit did nothing but polarize people. Excellent work everyone. On September 24 2017 08:51 KwarK wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 07:50 Introvert wrote:
It'd be great if they both shut up. No reason for a sports team to go the White House, no reason for it to be public debate, no reason for players to talk about it, and no reason for Trump to take to twitter about it. It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table). I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives. It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. Edit: + Show Spoiler + Civil rights activists have been told they're being divisive and that they need to be quiet and support unity since before the Civil War and the end of slavery. I think they're aware that civil rights is a divisive issue. They just think it shouldn't be. Then they can do so on private time. They aren't fighting an injustice within the NBA. I remember when we were discussing the nazi march and people jumped to defend their freedom of assembly and protest. Now that sports personalities are in on it (have been) and trump makes a comment on it, we should rally and make sure they shut the hell up and do so on their own time? The standards are doubling at an alarming rate. These kind of arguments do need to be made with a great deal more care. I don't think anybody is saying that these sportspeople should be forbidden from protesting, merely that they should not do it.
What's the difference? If they say "don't do it, play your sport," isn't that the same as forbidding them from doing it? I don't think you can separate this. If you have a stage to stand on and decide to use your voice, that's your prerogative. To silence even one voice from speaking is the same as abdicating democracy and the freedoms we claim we stand for.
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On September 24 2017 09:13 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2017 09:11 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Politics have ALWAYS been part and parcel with sports. If you've got a problem with that its time to stop watching sports. I would've thought all the ceremonies, anthems, and ads that are sprinkled into every major sporting event were pretty big tip-offs.
The best part of the NFL controversy is that before 9/11 players were still in the god damn locker room when the Anthem was played. This is new fake outrage du jour. After 9/11 the military paid the NFL a bunch of money to have players on the field for the Anthem to drum up propaganda patriotism, it's all a sham. No one gave a flying fuck back in the day, it's crap.
But Jackie Robinson was political, Muhammad Ali was political, Jesse Owens was political.
Average people becoming part of the cultural elite whether through art or sport are going to speak up. They've lived the life in the streets, they know what it's like to be on the bottom, they know the system is fucked, they know racism, classism, and sexism exists. So of course they're going to use their platform to bring attention to the problems they lived. People are insane if they think they're ever going to shut up athletes and artists.
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On September 24 2017 09:10 Introvert wrote:For the sake of the thread I won't go down this rabbit-hole yet again (since it seems to be picking up steam) but this thought that not going to the White House (or some other political action in an apolitical area) is some grand protest instead of grandstanding to a particular, outspoken base is utterly absurd. Edit: Ok I lied, one more thing. Show nested quote +On September 24 2017 09:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 09:05 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 09:01 KwarK wrote:On September 24 2017 08:52 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:51 KwarK wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?
There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table).
I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives.
It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. Edit: + Show Spoiler + Civil rights activists have been told they're being divisive and that they need to be quiet and support unity since before the Civil War and the end of slavery. I think they're aware that civil rights is a divisive issue. They just think it shouldn't be. Then they can do so on private time. They aren't fighting an injustice within the NBA. Or, they can express themselves whenever the hell they like because they're constitutionally guaranteed that right. And if the NBA wants to respond, they can. Additionally it's more patriotic to fight for a closer realization of the promise offered by the American constitution for all American citizens than to blindly respect a flag. As the right has said and the left is fond of reminding us recently, private organizations can fire you. Actually, it's more patriotic and better for the nation if we can hold onto the few remaining unifying things we have in apolitical arenas. If Curry wants to go out there and make a cause of police violence against black people during the off season I really couldn't care less. Yeah, the president saying the team should fire you is on a whole different level obviously. Like if Obama had called on google to fire that guy the right would lose their shit. You are more oblivious than I thought if you think sports has ever been apolitical? It has been for a long time, though not always. I think you, who see this stuff everywhere, inject it where most people didn't see it. Part and parcel, as said below, is ridiculous. Show nested quote +On September 24 2017 09:08 Artisreal wrote:On September 24 2017 08:52 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:42 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:38 Plansix wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?
There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table).
I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives.
It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. You don't get to use this one any more. Really Reagan should have ended this shit, but it's really over now. Trump ended it forever. There is no more "stay in our lane" when Hollywood or sports folks decide its politics time. Actually, I'm arguing my own point. I can say it. On September 24 2017 08:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?
There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table).
I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives.
It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. If you understood the first part you would see why more celebrity opinions are a forgone conclusion. You remember the president is an entertainer too right? I didn't say they were going anywhere. And yes, but he's also the elected president. And he ran for office, and he's doing things. I fail to see how the two are remotely comparably or how on earth this point is relevant to what I'm saying. I'm kind of at a loss. You lament them but, know they are going to continue/expand, but you can't grasp how the false meritocracy is related to both that trend and Republicans electing a wholly incompetent entertainer to be president? edit: hemming and hawing about White House visits doesn't draw attention to anything besides their own useless signaling about their part of the resistance It's got more people speaking out and displaying their discontent. So I completely disagree with your interpretation. Well if we really wanted to dig into this we'd examine "false meritocracy." It has a bunch of rich superstars bringing politics into an apolitical arena. It helps nothing. But you've had this explained to you on other issues. You don't see how this could possibly backfire? Steph Curry debating the White House visit did nothing but polarize people. Excellent work everyone. On September 24 2017 08:51 KwarK wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 07:50 Introvert wrote:
It'd be great if they both shut up. No reason for a sports team to go the White House, no reason for it to be public debate, no reason for players to talk about it, and no reason for Trump to take to twitter about it. It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table). I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives. It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. Edit: + Show Spoiler + Civil rights activists have been told they're being divisive and that they need to be quiet and support unity since before the Civil War and the end of slavery. I think they're aware that civil rights is a divisive issue. They just think it shouldn't be. Then they can do so on private time. They aren't fighting an injustice within the NBA. Are you shaming Trump for being unpresidential all the time as well? Trump's presidency is nothing but a "president" spouting his private and uninformed opinion all the time. You sure appear to call out the sportsmen for displaying private opinions during game time. Which by the way in my book is totally within the bounds of the sport. Sport is about fairness and applying the rules equally to everyone. And people call out when that's not the case. Just like the few openly gay football players call out the stigma put on them to remain silent until their career is over. Thankfully we have whole teams stepping up together this time. Uh, I've criticized Trump's behavior A LOT. So I don't see how either of you saying that means jack all to me. In fact, I did so multiple times in this discussion. FFS.
Dont feel bothered by my putting you in that drawer. I can only keep track of so many posters.
I still disagree strongly with your opinion of sportsmen being obligated to put up a show for the enjoyment of the masses as I stated.
On September 24 2017 09:22 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2017 09:08 Artisreal wrote:On September 24 2017 08:52 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:42 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:38 Plansix wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?
There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table).
I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives.
It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. You don't get to use this one any more. Really Reagan should have ended this shit, but it's really over now. Trump ended it forever. There is no more "stay in our lane" when Hollywood or sports folks decide its politics time. Actually, I'm arguing my own point. I can say it. On September 24 2017 08:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?
There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table).
I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives.
It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. If you understood the first part you would see why more celebrity opinions are a forgone conclusion. You remember the president is an entertainer too right? I didn't say they were going anywhere. And yes, but he's also the elected president. And he ran for office, and he's doing things. I fail to see how the two are remotely comparably or how on earth this point is relevant to what I'm saying. I'm kind of at a loss. You lament them but, know they are going to continue/expand, but you can't grasp how the false meritocracy is related to both that trend and Republicans electing a wholly incompetent entertainer to be president? edit: hemming and hawing about White House visits doesn't draw attention to anything besides their own useless signaling about their part of the resistance It's got more people speaking out and displaying their discontent. So I completely disagree with your interpretation. Well if we really wanted to dig into this we'd examine "false meritocracy." It has a bunch of rich superstars bringing politics into an apolitical arena. It helps nothing. But you've had this explained to you on other issues. You don't see how this could possibly backfire? Steph Curry debating the White House visit did nothing but polarize people. Excellent work everyone. On September 24 2017 08:51 KwarK wrote:On September 24 2017 08:36 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 08:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 08:11 Introvert wrote:On September 24 2017 07:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 24 2017 07:50 Introvert wrote:
It'd be great if they both shut up. No reason for a sports team to go the White House, no reason for it to be public debate, no reason for players to talk about it, and no reason for Trump to take to twitter about it. It's tradition, I thought conservatives loved tradition?There's lots of reasons for players to talk about it, plenty of reasons for public debate and, no.... you're right, Trump shouldn't have said anything (since acknowledging and addressing the rampant abuse of PoC is off the table). I have to say the "both sides" defense is better than the grammar police, athletes shouldn't have political opinions (unless they are tom brady endorsing the president) and random rage I've seen from most conservatives. It's still grossly wrong, but better. See, when you say things like this it gives more evidence that either A) after all this time you don't know what you are talking about, or B) that you purposely ask disingenuous questions. But I know it's a bipartisan tradition, but the two realms should be kept separate and the president should not do dumb photo ops to make them seem more like celebrities. We pay professional athletes more than doctors, scientists, cops, teachers, basically all jobs but CEO's and the like. According the false meritocracy America is built on they most certainly should get a photo op with the president if they want it. These athletes are drawing attention to an incredibly serious issue, and they should be. Snowflakes like Trump need to just suck it up. That first part has nothing to do with anything. And what great attention going on about visiting the White House to protest Trump is. They are accomplishing so much! We need more. Just like we need to know the opinion of other entertainers. Edit: + Show Spoiler + Civil rights activists have been told they're being divisive and that they need to be quiet and support unity since before the Civil War and the end of slavery. I think they're aware that civil rights is a divisive issue. They just think it shouldn't be. Then they can do so on private time. They aren't fighting an injustice within the NBA. Are you shaming Trump for being unpresidential all the time as well? Trump's presidency is nothing but a "president" spouting his private and uninformed opinion all the time. You sure appear to call out the sportsmen for displaying private opinions during game time. Which by the way in my book is totally within the bounds of the sport. Sport is about fairness and applying the rules equally to everyone. And people call out when that's not the case. Just like the few openly gay football players call out the stigma put on them to remain silent until their career is over. Thankfully we have whole teams stepping up together this time. Trump was pretty much right on the money saying that all sides are to blamed for the death of the girl though.
thank you for the insight.
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These players are products who represent a brand first, it comes with the territory of making millions and being in the spotlight. If the NFL has a problem with it's players protesting the anthem and decides to take action because of how it affects the bottom line then that's one thing. The president pretending that everyone has to love the US flag is laughable, this isn't north korea. Who's actually defending this president still?
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It is fitting that the Patriots are the most patriotic team in the NFL. Finally someone is willing to stand up to the PC left and fight to make this country great again. Prepare to get triggered:
+ Show Spoiler +
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On September 24 2017 09:47 biology]major wrote:
These players are products who represent a brand first, it comes with the territory of making millions and being in the spotlight. If the NFL has a problem with it's players protesting the anthem and decides to take action because of how it affects the bottom line then that's one thing. The president pretending that everyone has to love the US flag is laughable, this isn't north korea. Who's actually defending this president still?
Great deal of his voter base on Twitter and virtually all of his rally attendees for example.
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On September 24 2017 09:47 biology]major wrote:
These players are products who represent a brand first, it comes with the territory of making millions and being in the spotlight. If the NFL has a problem with it's players protesting the anthem and decides to take action because of how it affects the bottom line then that's one thing. The president pretending that everyone has to love the US flag is laughable, this isn't north korea. Who's actually defending this president still?
I prefer to think of them as human beings first, but if they did that they'd notice Kap had the best selling Jersey and their ratings are down and get ahead of this.
If people don't like it they can go watch NASCAR
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On September 24 2017 09:55 Wulfey_LA wrote:It is fitting that the Patriots are the most patriotic team in the NFL. Finally someone is willing to stand up to the PC left and fight to make this country great again. Prepare to get triggered: + Show Spoiler +
That is so good. Haha. I was about to drop them faster than my cell phone coverage.
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EPT
