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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18866 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-08 00:43:50
September 08 2017 00:43 GMT
#173721
On September 08 2017 09:40 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
https://twitter.com/JessiTurnure/status/905932137966206976

Fun fact: claiming aggrieved status as a taxpayer doesn't get you into federal court when you want to challenge government action, but if taxes are allegedly being used in support of religion in violation of the Establishment Clause of the 1st Amendment, it does :D
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 08 2017 01:01 GMT
#173722




Nothing to see here, just lies undermining our democracy.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
September 08 2017 01:20 GMT
#173723
The US should issue national id's that everybody above voting age is required to obtain, and once practically everybody has one you can demand them as identification. That should get rid of both issues of fraud and disenfranchising voters.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 08 2017 01:20 GMT
#173724
On September 08 2017 10:20 Nyxisto wrote:
The US should issue national id's that everybody above voting age is required to obtain, and once practically everybody has one you can demand them as identification. That should get rid of both issues of fraud and disenfranchising voters.


Unfortunately we have idiots that call themselves Libertarians that would throw a fit.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18866 Posts
September 08 2017 01:23 GMT
#173725
That's a great idea and one worth pushing for, but its an uphill battle not only because of libertarian "don't put me on a list!" sentiments mentioned by stealth, but also the fact that many state governments charge a nice premium on ID/licensing services and they'll fight tooth and nail against having these threatened.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-08 01:27:30
September 08 2017 01:27 GMT
#173726
On September 08 2017 10:20 Nyxisto wrote:
The US should issue national id's that everybody above voting age is required to obtain, and once practically everybody has one you can demand them as identification. That should get rid of both issues of fraud and disenfranchising voters.


Should be tied to the census. They go door to door to take the census, they could take a pic and issue an ID on the spot. That way people don't have to go anywhere even (which not everyone can do). The technology is there to print a card on the spot. But yeah, libertarians are a thing that exist.
LiquidDota Staff
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-08 01:33:27
September 08 2017 01:32 GMT
#173727
On a lighter note. Wikileaks has always been trash, but this is a whole new level of stupid.




I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
September 08 2017 02:00 GMT
#173728
While Bernie Sanders readies a single-payer health care bill that the GOP is itching to attack, one of his Democratic colleagues is proposing a step toward that goal that could give cover to the party’s vulnerable incumbents.

Sen. Chris Murphy, a potential presidential contender, is working on legislation expected this fall that would let individuals and businesses buy into Medicare as part of Obamacare’s exchanges. As Sanders and other potential challengers to President Donald Trump flock to “Medicare for all,” embracing a top liberal priority before 2020, Murphy is taking a conspicuously more pragmatic approach designed to get Democrats closer to that lofty but potentially unobtainable goal.

In the process, it could give vulnerable Democrats loath to attach themselves to Sanders a more politically palatable alternative that still satisfies the party’s base.

The first-term senator is also raising his national profile by wading into the hot-button single-payer debate — though the Connecticut Democrat has tamped down talk that he might take on Trump in 2020. It’s not about competing with Sanders, Murphy says, but rather offering a complementary path toward the creation of a single-payer system.

“Bernie is setting a really important marker for where he and many people in our party think the health care system needs to be,” Murphy — one of the Affordable Care Act’s staunchest defenders since its earliest days — told POLITICO.

But, Murphy added, “We’re not going to pass a single-payer health care bill any time in the next few years. And so we need to have a conversation about how we get there.”

Murphy doesn’t have Sanders’ army of grass-roots supporters, and public endorsements of his bill are still forthcoming even as Sanders racks up prominent single-payer backers such as Democratic Sens. Kamala Harris of California and Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts. But Murphy has the advantage of rising-star status without the political target that Republicans have drawn on Sanders’ plan. In July, Republicans forced a Senate vote on the idea that all but four Democrats boycotted.

Republicans are preparing to wield Sanders’ single-payer plan as a cudgel against Democrats up for reelection next year in states that Trump carried, challenging them to get behind an idea that polls show attracts only about a third of Americans. The Murphy proposal could give those imperiled Democrats a more moderate fallback to get behind.

Murphy said he would begin with a resolution designed to build support for expanding the popular program before releasing legislation later this fall. Making Medicare more widely available, as he sees it, would pave the way for an effective “redesign” that prepares it to cover younger beneficiaries as part of a Sanders-style approach.

A Medicare buy-in “may not be as big a leap for the health care system as single-payer, but I think it’s a big, easy-to-understand, and super-popular idea,” Murphy said.

“I think we need to be in the business of communicating big, easy-to-understand ideas to people in a way that we didn’t in 2016,” he added. “Donald Trump had very dangerous ideas, but they were easy to get your head wrapped around. Hillary Clinton had very good ideas, but they were so obtuse that few understood them.”

Murphy followed that backhanded compliment of Trump with clear praise for Sanders: “There’s nobody better in our party than Bernie at communicating big, easy-to-understand ideas.”

Murphy said he may ultimately decide to sign onto Sanders’ single-payer bill, expected to emerge as soon as next week, and has spoken with the Vermont independent about potentially supporting his own proposal.

Sen. Brian Schatz (D-Hawaii), a friend of Murphy’s who partnered with him on the caucus’ successful messaging campaign against Obamacare repeal, is offering another complementary health care option that would create a Medicaid buy-in. Schatz, who has flatly ruled out any run in 2020, told POLITICO that he is already planning to co-sponsor Sanders’ bill and has secured Sanders’ support for his legislation.

“Of course, I like my idea the best — but I think they're all good ideas,” Schatz quipped, adding: “We have to be serious-minded about policymaking, and so not everything should be a litmus test of your progressive purity. Sometimes the question is, ‘What's going to provide the most coverage to the most people?’”

Many Democrats bristle at chatter that Sanders' activist network might challenge any Democratic candidate, incumbent or otherwise, who doesn't back the single-payer plan he wants at the forefront of the party's agenda.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
September 08 2017 02:06 GMT
#173729
If Trump actually does something about H1Bs, preferably just ending the program outright, we can upgrade his presidency from a C+ to a B-. That would be years overdue and one of the genuine failures of Obama that need correcting.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44179 Posts
September 08 2017 02:19 GMT
#173730
On September 08 2017 11:06 LegalLord wrote:
If Trump actually does something about H1Bs, preferably just ending the program outright, we can upgrade his presidency from a C+ to a B-. That would be years overdue and one of the genuine failures of Obama that need correcting.

no
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
bo1b
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Australia12814 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-08 02:20:48
September 08 2017 02:19 GMT
#173731
On September 08 2017 11:06 LegalLord wrote:
If Trump actually does something about H1Bs, preferably just ending the program outright, we can upgrade his presidency from a C+ to a B-. That would be years overdue and one of the genuine failures of Obama that need correcting.

if he can genuinely fix immigration, from h1b to daca and all that lies in between he will go down as one of the best.

It seems like a serious challenge though so I wish him the best.

Worth noting that fixing immigration is different from stopping it.
bo1b
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Australia12814 Posts
September 08 2017 02:24 GMT
#173732
Also from an outside perspective the h1b looks super important, just horribly abused.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
September 08 2017 02:26 GMT
#173733
isnt't the h1b visa just a few ten thousand cases per year? Even under the assumption that the people who are economically suffering are impacted by this (which sounds pretty unlikely tbh), how is this a significant issue?
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-08 02:43:18
September 08 2017 02:37 GMT
#173734
On September 08 2017 11:19 bo1b wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2017 11:06 LegalLord wrote:
If Trump actually does something about H1Bs, preferably just ending the program outright, we can upgrade his presidency from a C+ to a B-. That would be years overdue and one of the genuine failures of Obama that need correcting.

if he can genuinely fix immigration, from h1b to daca and all that lies in between he will go down as one of the best.

It seems like a serious challenge though so I wish him the best.

Worth noting that fixing immigration is different from stopping it.

since he clearly can't; the if clause will never be satisfied.
also, that would only be a good thing, not really reaching "one of the best" levels; though again it's moot since he has no chance of doing so.

nyx -> It's a known gripe that's been around a long time; and it makes for easy talking points, that's probably why.
also note that that's the number of new ones allowed per year; existing ones continue on, so the total population of people under an h1b is several times higher (i'm not clear on all the details)
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-08 02:43:21
September 08 2017 02:42 GMT
#173735
On September 08 2017 11:00 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
While Bernie Sanders readies a single-payer health care bill that the GOP is itching to attack, one of his Democratic colleagues is proposing a step toward that goal that could give cover to the party’s vulnerable incumbents.

Sen. Chris Murphy, a potential presidential contender, is working on legislation expected this fall that would let individuals and businesses buy into Medicare as part of Obamacare’s exchanges. As Sanders and other potential challengers to President Donald Trump flock to “Medicare for all,” embracing a top liberal priority before 2020, Murphy is taking a conspicuously more pragmatic approach designed to get Democrats closer to that lofty but potentially unobtainable goal.

In the process, it could give vulnerable Democrats loath to attach themselves to Sanders a more politically palatable alternative that still satisfies the party’s base.

The first-term senator is also raising his national profile by wading into the hot-button single-payer debate — though the Connecticut Democrat has tamped down talk that he might take on Trump in 2020. It’s not about competing with Sanders, Murphy says, but rather offering a complementary path toward the creation of a single-payer system.

“Bernie is setting a really important marker for where he and many people in our party think the health care system needs to be,” Murphy — one of the Affordable Care Act’s staunchest defenders since its earliest days — told POLITICO.

But, Murphy added, “We’re not going to pass a single-payer health care bill any time in the next few years. And so we need to have a conversation about how we get there.”

Murphy doesn’t have Sanders’ army of grass-roots supporters, and public endorsements of his bill are still forthcoming even as Sanders racks up prominent single-payer backers such as Democratic Sens. Kamala Harris of California and Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts. But Murphy has the advantage of rising-star status without the political target that Republicans have drawn on Sanders’ plan. In July, Republicans forced a Senate vote on the idea that all but four Democrats boycotted.

Republicans are preparing to wield Sanders’ single-payer plan as a cudgel against Democrats up for reelection next year in states that Trump carried, challenging them to get behind an idea that polls show attracts only about a third of Americans. The Murphy proposal could give those imperiled Democrats a more moderate fallback to get behind.

Murphy said he would begin with a resolution designed to build support for expanding the popular program before releasing legislation later this fall. Making Medicare more widely available, as he sees it, would pave the way for an effective “redesign” that prepares it to cover younger beneficiaries as part of a Sanders-style approach.

A Medicare buy-in “may not be as big a leap for the health care system as single-payer, but I think it’s a big, easy-to-understand, and super-popular idea,” Murphy said.

“I think we need to be in the business of communicating big, easy-to-understand ideas to people in a way that we didn’t in 2016,” he added. “Donald Trump had very dangerous ideas, but they were easy to get your head wrapped around. Hillary Clinton had very good ideas, but they were so obtuse that few understood them.”

Murphy followed that backhanded compliment of Trump with clear praise for Sanders: “There’s nobody better in our party than Bernie at communicating big, easy-to-understand ideas.”

Murphy said he may ultimately decide to sign onto Sanders’ single-payer bill, expected to emerge as soon as next week, and has spoken with the Vermont independent about potentially supporting his own proposal.

Sen. Brian Schatz (D-Hawaii), a friend of Murphy’s who partnered with him on the caucus’ successful messaging campaign against Obamacare repeal, is offering another complementary health care option that would create a Medicaid buy-in. Schatz, who has flatly ruled out any run in 2020, told POLITICO that he is already planning to co-sponsor Sanders’ bill and has secured Sanders’ support for his legislation.

“Of course, I like my idea the best — but I think they're all good ideas,” Schatz quipped, adding: “We have to be serious-minded about policymaking, and so not everything should be a litmus test of your progressive purity. Sometimes the question is, ‘What's going to provide the most coverage to the most people?’”

Many Democrats bristle at chatter that Sanders' activist network might challenge any Democratic candidate, incumbent or otherwise, who doesn't back the single-payer plan he wants at the forefront of the party's agenda.


Source



This isn't really new. Bob Casey's been pushing for a medicare public option for months. I still have not had any explanation of why these bills are going to get further than Ben Cardin's health care reform bill he proposed a while ago.
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
September 08 2017 02:44 GMT
#173736
Also the one part of the sec of state job that Tillerson seems to be engaged in just got told no

"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
September 08 2017 02:59 GMT
#173737


Coming this fall: Can Colorado force Masterpiece Cakeshop to bake that same-sex wedding cake? The Justice Department of the Trump Administration files an amicus curiae in support of the baker today.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6223 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-08 03:01:21
September 08 2017 02:59 GMT
#173738
On September 08 2017 11:26 Nyxisto wrote:
isnt't the h1b visa just a few ten thousand cases per year? Even under the assumption that the people who are economically suffering are impacted by this (which sounds pretty unlikely tbh), how is this a significant issue?


Put it this way.

For what they pay me for my job, and benefits, going by glassdoor, an outsourcing company in India can hire ~12-20 people to do the same job easily. Assuming the outsourcing company takes a 100% cut, by outsourcing, you hire 6-10 people to do my one job. Or you hire 3 people and save the rest of the money.

It almost definitely will not improve the output quality of the work done (I have low confidence in anything that outsourced software devs have built, given what I've seen), but for anything which can be outsourced, hiring one H1B, and 10 monkeys in India is cheaper than paying one person in America a reasonable wage.

Places that want talent (Big tech like Apple, Google etc.) make good use of H1Bs, since the people they hire are in high demand regardless of where in the world they work whereas shit like disney hiring h1Bs to replace IT staff is kinda inexcusable, especially since the staff were training their replacements
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 08 2017 03:12 GMT
#173739
In the least suprising move in history, Session's justice department supports discrimination against homosexuals before the Supreme Court.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-09-08 03:43:57
September 08 2017 03:24 GMT
#173740
On September 08 2017 11:59 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/chrisgeidner/status/905912864531259392

Coming this fall: Can Colorado force Masterpiece Cakeshop to bake that same-sex wedding cake? The Justice Department of the Trump Administration files an amicus curiae in support of the baker today.


How surprising.

Trump, Sessions and the rest of family dickhead didn't strike me at all as homophobes and discriminating based on sexuality.

No really. Totally unexpected.

edit: read through the paper, jesus fucking christ are these people retarded. I frequent TL, so i've seen my fair share of mental gymnastics of people trying to win an argument by simply throwing all kinds of stupid shit and hope that something sticks, but that's another pay grade. Trying to paint the baker as some kind of "artist" "who can't be forced to do his work, like a writer can't be forced to write" (note that these things have nothing in common, not to mention that quite a few of that guys cakes look pretty ass), really?

It's relatively easy. You got A: freedom to say what you want, and to say nothing if you don't want. You B: are not allowed to deny service based on sexuality, religion and whatnot.

There. Solved. Denying service isn't covered by any freedoms. You can complain, if you deny service, you break the law. No, baking a cake is not art (it can be, but not in this case). No, baking a cake isn't "a form of religious expression", especially not if you do it commercially. Also not if you decide to not use alcohol etc in your cake.

But hey. I wonder how religious people would react if it went the other way around. Somebody who's muslim, not serving kebop or whatever to someone who wears a cross around their necks.

Wouldn't that be a funny shitstorm.
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