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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 8550

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 25 2017 15:18 GMT
#170981
On August 25 2017 23:48 KwarK wrote:
Danglars, you do know that Trump is protected by his own party and that impeachment is a political process, not a legal one, right?

Because it feels a lot like you're attempting to argue that all that could result from a cocked up natural disaster is unpopularity without realizing that unpopularity is what will get him, if anything does.

To get members of his own party to go against him, there would need to be an actual biggie crime. No Republican would be suicidal enough to remove the voters choice lacking that cause, no matter how unpopular he gets.

And I've heard enough of "this current event will be the end of Trump" in this thread and in my social group of mostly liberal Californians. He'll most likely finish a largely unsuccessful term in 3.5 years. If Bush had been impeached and removed for mishandling TARP or Obama for non-recess appointments or Obamacare non-legislative changes, I might be more willing to concede the likelihood.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 25 2017 15:22 GMT
#170982
On August 25 2017 23:46 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
I could show you a neighborhood in St Louis or Chicago that looks just as bad as New Orleans and it was never hit by a natural disaster. These kinds of places are just ignored altogether.

Coincidentally, these also have a good minority population. I think the 9th ward and other poverty stricken areas should just wait for gentrification. That's their best hope because the city won't fix them.
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2017 23:46 Danglars wrote:
On August 25 2017 23:35 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On August 25 2017 23:00 Danglars wrote:
On August 25 2017 22:48 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On August 25 2017 22:23 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:

This is going to be both good and bad to watch. Depending on the response, we could be seeing the end.

The Trump hysteria is so comical I'm wondering if you're talking the end of Trump as president or the end of Texas.

"His response was so bad to this hurricane that we consulted lawyers and they said it was 'basically high crimes and misdemeanors, just go for it bro.'"

Hysteria? Stop.

I left it open for a reason. While I have no love for trump, I also have no love for Te-has except for a very few people who live there. Either could go and I'll be fine.

And also, for reference, see Bush v Katrina. If trump handles this as bad as that, then...choose your own ending.

I'm no closer to getting an answer. Unless you're walking back when you said "the end" for Trump by making an explicit comparison to Bush, who finished the term in regular fashion.

You didn't ask a question.

We could be seeing the end
::I'm wondering if you're talking the end of Trump or of Texas
I left it open. I don't like Texas. Either could go. Choose your own ending.
:?? This could be the end of ZerOCool. I don't like him, and I have no idea why this could be the end but Bush and choose your own ending.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
August 25 2017 15:33 GMT
#170983
t's a Cat2. We just haven't had any sort of significant hurricane landing in the last couple years, so that combined with serious doubts about the current Admin's ability to flush a toilet is what's driving the hysteria. Storms hit, and then stuff gets fixed. Texas will be more than likely fine, any sort of disaster will be in the bungling of the fixes rather than the storm itself.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
8982 Posts
August 25 2017 15:39 GMT
#170984
On August 26 2017 00:22 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2017 23:46 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
I could show you a neighborhood in St Louis or Chicago that looks just as bad as New Orleans and it was never hit by a natural disaster. These kinds of places are just ignored altogether.

Coincidentally, these also have a good minority population. I think the 9th ward and other poverty stricken areas should just wait for gentrification. That's their best hope because the city won't fix them.
On August 25 2017 23:46 Danglars wrote:
On August 25 2017 23:35 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On August 25 2017 23:00 Danglars wrote:
On August 25 2017 22:48 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On August 25 2017 22:23 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/CNN/status/901067781713436672

This is going to be both good and bad to watch. Depending on the response, we could be seeing the end.

The Trump hysteria is so comical I'm wondering if you're talking the end of Trump as president or the end of Texas.

"His response was so bad to this hurricane that we consulted lawyers and they said it was 'basically high crimes and misdemeanors, just go for it bro.'"

Hysteria? Stop.

I left it open for a reason. While I have no love for trump, I also have no love for Te-has except for a very few people who live there. Either could go and I'll be fine.

And also, for reference, see Bush v Katrina. If trump handles this as bad as that, then...choose your own ending.

I'm no closer to getting an answer. Unless you're walking back when you said "the end" for Trump by making an explicit comparison to Bush, who finished the term in regular fashion.

You didn't ask a question.

We could be seeing the end
::I'm wondering if you're talking the end of Trump or of Texas
I left it open. I don't like Texas. Either could go. Choose your own ending.
:?? This could be the end of ZerOCool. I don't like him, and I have no idea why this could be the end but Bush and choose your own ending.

You got me. I made no sense. I'll do better.

With trump's historically low polling approval/disapproval ratings, his constant lashing out at GOP leaders, and his ineffectiveness to create anything resembling a plan for legislative governing, he's a lame duck and will be until he is out of office. Include his problems with denouncing white supremacists and their ilk (not being wishy washy on the topic), his need to obfuscate any Russia investigation as best he can, and his failure to make coherent statements/speeches (thankfully we can blame twitter's character limit), and you kind of get the picture of where this is headed. Should he bungle this natural disaster, then I could see it being the end of the trump administration and we welcome in Mike "No Nonsense" Pence to the Oval Office.

Better?
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
August 25 2017 15:40 GMT
#170985
On August 26 2017 00:18 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2017 23:48 KwarK wrote:
Danglars, you do know that Trump is protected by his own party and that impeachment is a political process, not a legal one, right?

Because it feels a lot like you're attempting to argue that all that could result from a cocked up natural disaster is unpopularity without realizing that unpopularity is what will get him, if anything does.

To get members of his own party to go against him, there would need to be an actual biggie crime. No Republican would be suicidal enough to remove the voters choice lacking that cause, no matter how unpopular he gets.

And I've heard enough of "this current event will be the end of Trump" in this thread and in my social group of mostly liberal Californians. He'll most likely finish a largely unsuccessful term in 3.5 years. If Bush had been impeached and removed for mishandling TARP or Obama for non-recess appointments or Obamacare non-legislative changes, I might be more willing to concede the likelihood.


Let's say Kushner, Page, Manafort and Flynn were all indicted by Mueller's team. They find no proof leading to Trump himself. I wonder if that would be enough.

Trump is definitely doing his best to antagonize Republicans in Congress though, especially the Senate. They are not afraid to criticize him.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 25 2017 15:41 GMT
#170986
On August 26 2017 00:33 ticklishmusic wrote:
t's a Cat2. We just haven't had any sort of significant hurricane landing in the last couple years, so that combined with serious doubts about the current Admin's ability to flush a toilet is what's driving the hysteria. Storms hit, and then stuff gets fixed. Texas will be more than likely fine, any sort of disaster will be in the bungling of the fixes rather than the storm itself.

That was my original takeaway. Then I saw the article on catastrophic storm surge, life threatening storm surge, very significant disaster, mass exodus, "Such daunting language hasn't been seen by CNN's experts since Hurricane Katrina, which left more than 1,800 people dead in 2005." How the fuck are you supposed to describe a Cat 5 if this is what a 2 perhaps 3 merits, seriously?
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 25 2017 15:43 GMT
#170987
On August 26 2017 00:39 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2017 00:22 Danglars wrote:
On August 25 2017 23:46 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
I could show you a neighborhood in St Louis or Chicago that looks just as bad as New Orleans and it was never hit by a natural disaster. These kinds of places are just ignored altogether.

Coincidentally, these also have a good minority population. I think the 9th ward and other poverty stricken areas should just wait for gentrification. That's their best hope because the city won't fix them.
On August 25 2017 23:46 Danglars wrote:
On August 25 2017 23:35 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On August 25 2017 23:00 Danglars wrote:
On August 25 2017 22:48 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On August 25 2017 22:23 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/CNN/status/901067781713436672

This is going to be both good and bad to watch. Depending on the response, we could be seeing the end.

The Trump hysteria is so comical I'm wondering if you're talking the end of Trump as president or the end of Texas.

"His response was so bad to this hurricane that we consulted lawyers and they said it was 'basically high crimes and misdemeanors, just go for it bro.'"

Hysteria? Stop.

I left it open for a reason. While I have no love for trump, I also have no love for Te-has except for a very few people who live there. Either could go and I'll be fine.

And also, for reference, see Bush v Katrina. If trump handles this as bad as that, then...choose your own ending.

I'm no closer to getting an answer. Unless you're walking back when you said "the end" for Trump by making an explicit comparison to Bush, who finished the term in regular fashion.

You didn't ask a question.

We could be seeing the end
::I'm wondering if you're talking the end of Trump or of Texas
I left it open. I don't like Texas. Either could go. Choose your own ending.
:?? This could be the end of ZerOCool. I don't like him, and I have no idea why this could be the end but Bush and choose your own ending.

You got me. I made no sense. I'll do better.

With trump's historically low polling approval/disapproval ratings, his constant lashing out at GOP leaders, and his ineffectiveness to create anything resembling a plan for legislative governing, he's a lame duck and will be until he is out of office. Include his problems with denouncing white supremacists and their ilk (not being wishy washy on the topic), his need to obfuscate any Russia investigation as best he can, and his failure to make coherent statements/speeches (thankfully we can blame twitter's character limit), and you kind of get the picture of where this is headed. Should he bungle this natural disaster, then I could see it being the end of the trump administration and we welcome in Mike "No Nonsense" Pence to the Oval Office.

Better?

Well, lame duck until end of office is somewhat likely at his current pace, I'll give you that. I understand you now, of course disagreeing on the likelihood of a Pence presidency after a bungled natural disaster, but that's a side note.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Adreme
Profile Joined June 2011
United States5574 Posts
August 25 2017 15:44 GMT
#170988
On August 26 2017 00:41 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2017 00:33 ticklishmusic wrote:
t's a Cat2. We just haven't had any sort of significant hurricane landing in the last couple years, so that combined with serious doubts about the current Admin's ability to flush a toilet is what's driving the hysteria. Storms hit, and then stuff gets fixed. Texas will be more than likely fine, any sort of disaster will be in the bungling of the fixes rather than the storm itself.

That was my original takeaway. Then I saw the article on catastrophic storm surge, life threatening storm surge, very significant disaster, mass exodus, "Such daunting language hasn't been seen by CNN's experts since Hurricane Katrina, which left more than 1,800 people dead in 2005." How the fuck are you supposed to describe a Cat 5 if this is what a 2 perhaps 3 merits, seriously?


It all depends on where stuff hits honestly. Katrina was bad because it was a bad hurricane in a dangerous location. Rita was just as bad but hit a less severe location. This one could hit a bad location so it could be bad but in general the media will always overhype hurricanes because they grab ratings.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42638 Posts
August 25 2017 15:59 GMT
#170989
On August 26 2017 00:18 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2017 23:48 KwarK wrote:
Danglars, you do know that Trump is protected by his own party and that impeachment is a political process, not a legal one, right?

Because it feels a lot like you're attempting to argue that all that could result from a cocked up natural disaster is unpopularity without realizing that unpopularity is what will get him, if anything does.

To get members of his own party to go against him, there would need to be an actual biggie crime. No Republican would be suicidal enough to remove the voters choice lacking that cause, no matter how unpopular he gets.

And I've heard enough of "this current event will be the end of Trump" in this thread and in my social group of mostly liberal Californians. He'll most likely finish a largely unsuccessful term in 3.5 years. If Bush had been impeached and removed for mishandling TARP or Obama for non-recess appointments or Obamacare non-legislative changes, I might be more willing to concede the likelihood.

I agree on it being likely he'll complete his term because it's unlikely Republicans will turn on him. I'm not counting down to impeachment, Republicans don't know how to tap into the Trump base without Trump and until they can work it out they'll not risk alienating them.

But this does come down to a pure popularity contest. If Trump starts to hurt them more than he helps them he'll find the ice breaking beneath him. And an "actual biggie crime" isn't necessarily required. As I said, it's a political process, not a judicial one. All that is required is a pretext and an incentive. He'll survive because there is no incentive but if that changes then the pretext will appear.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 25 2017 16:00 GMT
#170990
On August 26 2017 00:44 Adreme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2017 00:41 Danglars wrote:
On August 26 2017 00:33 ticklishmusic wrote:
t's a Cat2. We just haven't had any sort of significant hurricane landing in the last couple years, so that combined with serious doubts about the current Admin's ability to flush a toilet is what's driving the hysteria. Storms hit, and then stuff gets fixed. Texas will be more than likely fine, any sort of disaster will be in the bungling of the fixes rather than the storm itself.

That was my original takeaway. Then I saw the article on catastrophic storm surge, life threatening storm surge, very significant disaster, mass exodus, "Such daunting language hasn't been seen by CNN's experts since Hurricane Katrina, which left more than 1,800 people dead in 2005." How the fuck are you supposed to describe a Cat 5 if this is what a 2 perhaps 3 merits, seriously?


It all depends on where stuff hits honestly. Katrina was bad because it was a bad hurricane in a dangerous location. Rita was just as bad but hit a less severe location. This one could hit a bad location so it could be bad but in general the media will always overhype hurricanes because they grab ratings.

They also don't get any credit for downplaying them and it would be seen as irresponsible. Texas is supposed to get 24 inches of rain in some areas. Sounds dangerous for the area it is hitting.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-25 16:23:48
August 25 2017 16:21 GMT
#170991
Gary Cohn, Trump's econ adviser wrote a resignation letter in reaction to Charlottesville but decided against it due to fear of the market reaction, came out in NYT interview earlier.

Brietbart's reaction has been measured and thoughtful.


{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 25 2017 16:22 GMT
#170992
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 25 2017 16:28 GMT
#170993
On August 26 2017 01:21 Nevuk wrote:
Gary Cohn, Trump's econ adviser wrote a resignation letter in reaction to Charlottesville but decided against it due to fear of the market reaction, came out in NYT interview earlier.

Brietbart's reaction has been measured and thoughtful.


https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/901068333449175041

I like the globes. Very subtle.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
August 25 2017 16:43 GMT
#170994
On August 26 2017 01:28 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2017 01:21 Nevuk wrote:
Gary Cohn, Trump's econ adviser wrote a resignation letter in reaction to Charlottesville but decided against it due to fear of the market reaction, came out in NYT interview earlier.

Brietbart's reaction has been measured and thoughtful.


https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/901068333449175041

I like the globes. Very subtle.



Just to be sure, the globes are calling him Jewish right?
Something witty
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23217 Posts
August 25 2017 16:49 GMT
#170995
On August 25 2017 23:44 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2017 23:42 m4ini wrote:
I remember that episode because i was shocked too. To this day i don't understand really how you can/could just ignore part of your country (city, blocks, whatever) in rubble after a natural disaster.

Two step process
1) Paint rubble black
2) "I'm so not racist I don't even see colour"


You know, I feel like people don't remember ~1000 people died from Katrina, or that it took almost a decade to get their public schools back.

Also seems like a good time to remind people Flint STILL doesn't have safe drinking water...
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-25 16:56:36
August 25 2017 16:56 GMT
#170996

How Free Eyeglasses Are Boosting Test Scores in Baltimore

Three years ago, Johns Hopkins University researchers in Baltimore asked a seemingly simple straightforward question: Could the persistent gap in reading performance between poor students and wealthier ones be closed if they gave the poor students eyeglasses?

They knew that poorer students were less likely to have glasses than wealthier white children, but data were limited on whether simply helping children better focus on the page in front of them might improve their ability to master a skill essential for early learning. They screened several hundred second- and third-graders, gave two pairs of eyeglasses to the ones who needed them (about 60 percent of the group, based on a uniquely liberal prescribing standard) and then they tracked their school performance over the course of the year. The outcomes were notable even with the small sample size—reading proficiency improved significantly compared with the children who did not need eyeglasses. In late 2015, a conversation between Dr. Leana Wen, the new Baltimore City health commissioner, and Johns Hopkins President Ronald Daniels about areas of potential collaboration quickly focused on students’ eyesight. Vision screening by the health department had already identified an unmet need for thousands of children; the research seemed to confirm the value of addressing it in the school setting.

In May 2016, the Baltimore Health Department assembled a public-private coalition made up of the city’s public school system, Johns Hopkins Wilmer Eye Institute, Johns Hopkins School of Education, eyeglass retailer Warby Parker, and a national nonprofit called Vision To Learn.
The three-year program, called Vision for Baltimore, plans to visit 150 schools over the course of the study and screen 60,000 students, making it the biggest study of its kind. The data officials expect to glean could radically alter how school systems across the country approach one of the most difficult and consequential problems in modern education. It may well be that the solution to the persistent gap in reading proficiency is not instructional, but a simple health issue that could be addressed with a pair eyeglasses that could cost a couple of hundred dollars at the mall.

“We know, based on common sense, that giving glasses for kids is important for education [and] health,” said Dr. Wen.

As of mid-August, Vision for Baltimore has performed nearly 18,000 screenings and distributed nearly 2,000 pairs of glasses for free. That’s on schedule of the program’s goal to give out 8,000 glasses before the end of the study. They estimate that just 20 percent of screened children who need glasses subsequently get them, leaving as many as 20,000 children citywide staring fuzzily at the board in their classrooms.

Experts attribute the glasses gap to Maryland law, which requires screening only or pre-K, first-and eighth-graders. A child who develops eyesight issues in second grade could wait years before being examined again, falling further behind peers. But even with mandatory screening, parents may not follow through. Parents might not be able to afford the glasses if they don’t qualify for Medicaid. (Maryland’s Medicaid system covers one pair of eyeglasses for minors per year, and will replace them in some cases.) The consequences of not addressing eyesight problems early can be dire and compounding. Studies over the past decade suggest that students who perform badly in school are misdiagnosed with behavioral disorders or special education needs when the culprit was their poor eyesight.

The solution was deceptively simple: If kids can’t get to the doctor, bring the doctor to the kids. Under the Vision for Baltimore program, a mobile clinic shows up to the school for about a week during the school year to determine whether a child may need glasses. In Baltimore, the city health department conducts the screening, which requires checking distance vision, depth perception and eye alignment. If the child fails the screening test, he is given a parental consent form for an optometry exam on the school campus. Two weeks later, an optician comes to the school to fit the glasses, which the child picks himself. Each student gets one pair.

...

Source

Someone pointed this article out yesterday in a discussion about how the Black Panthers ran an ambulance service, busing and other basic services during civil rights movement. That some areas are deprived of basic services(water) for literally no reason beyond that they are poor and black.

Flint Michigan is a stain on our goverment and its complete inability to provide basic services for its people. But every time I read about it, it is a giant game of pointing the finger and arguing over who will pay for the repairs. That thing should have been put in receivership, pipes fixed with federal money and the the bill written off as the price of failure. Charge people with crimes, fire people, but just fix the water and write down the cost.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42638 Posts
August 25 2017 16:56 GMT
#170997
On August 26 2017 01:43 IyMoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2017 01:28 Plansix wrote:
On August 26 2017 01:21 Nevuk wrote:
Gary Cohn, Trump's econ adviser wrote a resignation letter in reaction to Charlottesville but decided against it due to fear of the market reaction, came out in NYT interview earlier.

Brietbart's reaction has been measured and thoughtful.


https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/901068333449175041

I like the globes. Very subtle.



Just to be sure, the globes are calling him Jewish right?

((())) is Jewish. Globes are for globalist. Although the far right believes globalists are part of the Jewish conspiracy because they think nations are the enemy because apparently Jews are responsible for international communism and the Trotskyist continuing revolution, along with also controlling international banking. Only by creating an autarkic ethnostate can the globalists be defeated. Or something.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-25 16:59:37
August 25 2017 16:57 GMT
#170998
On August 26 2017 01:56 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2017 01:43 IyMoon wrote:
On August 26 2017 01:28 Plansix wrote:
On August 26 2017 01:21 Nevuk wrote:
Gary Cohn, Trump's econ adviser wrote a resignation letter in reaction to Charlottesville but decided against it due to fear of the market reaction, came out in NYT interview earlier.

Brietbart's reaction has been measured and thoughtful.


https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/901068333449175041

I like the globes. Very subtle.



Just to be sure, the globes are calling him Jewish right?

((())) is Jewish. Globes are for globalist. Although the far right believes globalists are part of the Jewish conspiracy because they think nations are the enemy because apparently Jews are responsible for international communism and the Trotskyist continuing revolution, along with also controlling international banking. Only by creating an autarkic ethnostate can the globalists be defeated. Or something.

I look forward to the slow realization that globalist might have been coded language for anti-Semites all along. Soon they will be talking about how all globalists were educated at the Frankfurt School.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42638 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-25 17:21:13
August 25 2017 17:14 GMT
#170999
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/22/trumps-team-and-lawmakers-making-strides-on-tax-reform-plan-241873
There is broad consensus, according to five sources familiar with the behind-the-scenes talks, on some of the best ways to pay for cutting both the individual and corporate tax rates.

The options include capping the mortgage interest deduction for homeowners; scrapping people's ability to deduct state and local taxes; and eliminating businesses' ability to deduct interest, while also phasing in so-called full expensing for small businesses that allows them to immediately deduct investments like new equipment or facilities.

One idea quietly being discussed would be taxing the money that workers place into their 401(k) savings plans up front: an idea that would raise billions of dollars in the short-term and is pulled from the Camp plan. This policy idea is widely disliked by budget hawks, who consider it a gimmick; the financial services industry that handles retirement savings; and nonprofits that try to encourage Americans to save.


In layman's terms

Mortgage interest deduction is basically bullshit, and double bullshit given how low interest rates are. You have to live in an extremely high cost of living city and buy a big house, and still have most of your mortgage to pay off, for this to be a significant deduction. Basically it subsidizes the 1% buying themselves bigger houses. No impact on rental properties etc because they can already deduct mortgage payments against rental income and only pay tax on the profits. So this is actually a good thing. It simplifies the tax code by removing an interest deduction that only benefits a small number of people. Incidentally all interest used to be deductible, then they changed that and made most interest not deductible but kept mortgage interest as a political gift to the rich. If Trump does actually scrap it, that's actually good.

Deducting state and local taxes kinda makes sense from a practical point of view because otherwise you're paying taxes on taxes. If you get paid $100 and the state takes away $10 of them then that leaves you with $90 as your post tax income. Without this deduction the Federal government will demand a cut of both the $90 you earned and the $10 you never got. In practice it only benefits higher income folks because lower income people use the standard deduction. The benefit also varies hugely by state and city. Many people will call removing this an attack on the Democratic states. Republican leaning states tend not to have as many state and local taxes and therefore reintroducing double taxation wouldn't impact them as much.

Business interest deductions come from a logical place. If you borrow money to do a thing then logically the cost of the interest should be incorporated into the cost of doing the thing because you weren't just borrowing money for the hell of it. The problem with accountants though is some smartass will say "yeah, but if we borrow money from our Irish division then we can effectively use interest deductions to offshore profits". Mixed feelings on this. The rule makes sense. The problem is a real problem though.

Expensing up front is kinda just bad accounting. It's also what Trump used to not pay any taxes before the loophole was closed. If you trade $100 for something that is worth $100 you haven't taken a loss. If the thing that is worth $100 will be worthless in 5 years then you take a $20 loss per year. It's a gift to the accountants and their ability to generate bullshit.

Taxing tax deferred retirement savings up front could only ever be done on a voluntary basis because people would flip the fuck out if it wasn't. And the voluntary basis already exists. The entire idea has actually already been done. A guy called Roth came up with it. It's also a pretty dumb plan. It goes "if we offer people future tax exemption in exchange for present taxes then we'll get a bunch of money paid in taxes this year". Hopefully we can all see why that doesn't really make for stable long term tax policy. But either way that already exists. UNLESS Trump is suggesting that Trad 401(k) balances and the like are taxed on both the front end and the back end. That would be insane but maybe that is what he means. A 401(k) is basically just regular employment income that you have delayed. It's like saving up paychecks and then receiving the paychecks (and paying the taxes on those paychecks) when you're retired. If Trump really is suggesting that he wants to tax the 401(k) balances, which would be insane and I don't believe would ever happen, that'd be monstrous. I'm going to go ahead and assume that he's talking about a variant on Roth (pay taxes now, don't pay taxes in future), rather than some new (pay taxes now, also pay taxes in future) bullshit.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
August 25 2017 17:14 GMT
#171000
I still don't understand why globalist is an insult. Globalism is pretty great
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