US Politics Mega-thread - Page 8425

On August 16 2017 09:42 farvacola wrote:
And as frazzle brought up a number of pages ago, the conservative movement has a lot to hang its hat on all things considered, particularly in the courts and in state legislatures/governor's mansions. There's too much overt focus on the federal government and folks end up missing out on the bulk of what actually goes on here, Trump's tacit encouragement of white supremacists and overall awful job as president notwithstanding.

On August 16 2017 10:04 Introvert wrote:
Actually, I think most of the conservatives in this thread and elsewhere feel like this:

+ Show Spoiler +

which is how politics today works. And Trump is not the right person to deal with this.

On August 16 2017 10:25 Sermokala wrote:

Which is really why I've gotten so disinterested in things in the past two years. conservatism had a genuine rise in power and influence gearing up for a second George bush to lead the faithful to victory for a generation. Then the reactionaries got exited for an asshole that was as racist and stupid as they were. Jeb hadn't bought his baseball team yet (he should have that down pretty soon thank you miami) Paul ryan grew a beard and there wasn't anyone serious on the bench to step up to the monster we got today. now its 2006 every year for the next 3-6 years and nothing can make you happy anymore.

On August 16 2017 10:17 Introvert wrote:


This wasn't explicitly about Charlotesville either.

If people calmed down for 3 seconds and just took the time to read.

And we have lots of evidence that antifa is violent, as has been documented.

On August 16 2017 10:30 xDaunt wrote:

If that's the narrative that you believe, you should just turn in your GOP/conservative credentials and go be a democrat.

On August 16 2017 10:20 Wulfey_LA wrote:


So you are going to just stick to your talking points and not bother with evidence? Do you concede you can't show any Antifa violence in Charlotesville? The VICE video is pretty decisive in what it shows: the racist side was there to beat people with sticks and did beat people with sticks.

On August 16 2017 10:22 Odawg27 wrote:


Except what's going on is this:

Violent, hateful rhetoric from Unite the Right protesters.
Documented attacks and vile chants and statements from those protesters.
A few scuffles between protesters and counter-protesters.
A Unite the Right protester drives his car into a group of peaceful counter-protesters at high speed killing 1 and injuring 19.

Most people: "Nazis are bad!"

Trump and many on the far right: "Whoa, many sides are at fault for violence here!"

Most people: "wait, what? What about the Neo-nazis and white supremacists?"

Trump and many on the far right: "Stop trying to shut down free speech and the first amendment. The left is oppressive and wrong. A lot of those protesters were good people."

On August 16 2017 10:30 Wulfey_LA wrote:


Here is something to read. When fascists came to Berkeley, Antifa caused some property damage. You keep getting to say that Antifa is violent for free. Pony up something beyond vandalism.

http://time.com/4899658/charlottesville-antifa-protests/

EDIT: here is more. Yes, the Fascists are the ones doing the violence. No, not seeing assaults initiated by Antifa.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/04/far-right-white-supremacists-berkeley-protests-antifa-trump/

On August 16 2017 10:33 Sermokala wrote:

Yeah but I don't want to because I disagree with democrats more then I do GOP/conservatives.

On August 16 2017 10:17 Introvert wrote:


This wasn't explicitly about Charlotesville either.

If people calmed down for 3 seconds and just took the time to read

On August 16 2017 10:37 Introvert wrote:


We already knew this, but it's unfortunate to see that fully reading and comprehending what was written is still a challenge here.

On August 16 2017 10:38 zlefin wrote:

what are your top 3 disagreements with democrats?

On August 16 2017 10:51 Wulfey_LA wrote:
Here we go. This is a pretty decisive account of charlottesville. Yes, it was the Nazis. No, it was not Antifa. https://www.buzzfeed.com/blakemontgomery/heres-what-really-happened-in-charlottesville?utm_term=.yaKx22exO#.evLg11AgR

Here is a broader survey piece. Only hardcore racist bloggers say the racists weren't the ones pushing the violence. All non-racist sources pin the violence on the racists.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-charlottesville-witnesses-20170815-story.html

On August 16 2017 10:42 Nebuchad wrote:


Tfw you post about the right's response to nazis being perceived as not enough right after a nazi terrorist attack and people don't have the reading comprehension not to assume you're talking about the attack.

On August 16 2017 10:43 Odawg27 wrote:


Ok, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Do you believe the tweet from Walsh is correct? Not only that conservatives feel this, but they *should* feel this way because it's true that's what's happening?

On August 16 2017 11:07 Sermokala wrote:

Gun control, the drug war and how bad things are right now. I find almost every democrat I talk to talking like trump was going to be/is the end of the world or that the world is on the brink of collapse. I see 2007 and take faith in the stability and resiliency of the modern world. I think police have been bad but they've gotten better and have large challenges to fix on a structural level that goes beyond basic policy. I don't think fascists or the KKK are anything but an obvious and unavoidable feature of society. I don't think the world is going to collapse because no one wants it to collapse. I don't think Islamic terrorism is anywhere near as much of a threat as the soviet union was to the country.

On August 16 2017 11:09 Plansix wrote:
And the drug war?

On August 16 2017 11:17 Introvert wrote:


With the exception of the president the right's response has been fine. A large exception. But even then we have a problem of lumping "alt-right" with everyone else, which is very intentional.

On August 16 2017 11:18 zlefin wrote:


what are your particular disagreements on gun control and how to handle the drug war?
as to how bad things are righ tnow; that seems odd, cuz you hear the same kind of doomsaying (or worse) from many republicans, especially when obama was president. that's not really a feature of democrats that isn't equally present in republican/conservative circles. and I don't hear anyone talking about trump being the end of the world or brink of collapse or anything like that; just a lot of griping and mocking and sadness that people would fall for something that obvious, and some fear of the implications of that.
islamic terrorism is indeed not a significant threat; which is a view closer to dems than reps; so I don't see hwy you brought it up in this context.

On August 16 2017 11:24 Sermokala wrote:

I don't think it was a bad thing or a failure. There was a real rise in violent criminal organizations during the time and it posed a very real threat to national security. Jails were a failure as they didn't rehabilitate so much as punish and is the most visable result of the war. But It worked I belive foreign and domestically. Violent crime went down and criminal organizations were crippled coast to coast. I don't belive south america would have had not thrown off the cartels without us but I belive that they posted a much better chance with out support then against it. we did terrible things in South america but we did what we wanted to. They moved to Mexico and now I don't think they have anywhere else to go. Domestically I think a lot of changes can be made as the situation is completely different. Mass incarceration is bad but without a better alternative to fight criminal organizations like drug gangs and biker gangs I don't think its the wrong policy. A massive reorganization and reorientation of the jails system in the country is long past needed. Medical pot shouldn't be an argument with heroin as pain meds and meth as mental health drugs. Addictive substances are a threat to national security and thats the end that I'll hear of it.