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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
GOP Senators McCain, Cassidy suggest health-care bill is ‘dead’The initial GOP bill to repeal and replace the nation’s health law is probably “dead” and President Donald Trump’s proposal to just repeal it appears to be a “non-starter,” two moderate Republican senators indicated Sunday as their party scrambled to salvage faltering legislation. “We don’t know what the plan is,” said Sen. Bill Cassidy, R-La. “Clearly, the draft plan is dead. Is the serious rewrite plan dead? I don’t know.” Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said it may now be time for Republicans to come up with a new proposal with support from Democrats. “I think my view is it’s probably going to be dead,” McCain said of the GOP bill. If Democrats are included, he said, it doesn’t mean “they control it. It means they can have amendments considered. And even when they lose, then they’re part of the process. That’s what democracy is supposed to be all about.” Signalling his pessimism as well, Sen. Chuck Grassley wrote on Twitter late Saturday that Republicans will lose their Senate majority if they don’t pass health care legislation. The Iowa Republican said the party should be “ashamed” that it hasn’t been able to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare. “WE WONT BE ASHAMED WE WILL GO FROM MAJORITY TO MINORITY,” he tweeted. ... At least 10 GOP senators have expressed opposition to the initial bill drafted by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky. Republicans hold a 52-48 majority and Democrats stand united against the bill, meaning that just three GOP defections will doom it. The weeklong July 4 recess only raised more doubts among senators as many heard from constituents angry about the GOP bill and the prospect of rising premiums. McConnell last week said he would introduce a fresh bill in about a week scuttling and replacing much of former President Barack Obama’s health care law. But McConnell also acknowledged that if the broader effort fails, he may turn to a smaller bill with quick help for insurers and consumers and negotiate with Democrats. Cassidy, an uncommitted senator who encountered upset voters this month at a Baton Rouge town hall, rated the chances of Republicans passing broader legislation in the next three weeks at “50-50.” He cited questions about the impact on coverage and cost in a revised conservative plan being circulated by Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas. ...
A chance, but how good?
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Voting related civil rights are a mess right now.
15th Amendment: Cannot discriminate between voters on the basis of race.
Voting Rights Act section 2: Must take voters' race into account when redistricting.
Constitution Article 2: Some states must redraw their federal House districts every 10 years.
Result: All processes for redistricting are illegal. In practice, nice federal Judges sometimes decide to give maps a pass.
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On July 10 2017 07:10 Buckyman wrote:
Voting related civil rights are a mess right now.
15th Amendment: Cannot discriminate between voters on the basis of race.
Voting Rights Act section 2: Must take voters' race into account when redistricting.
Constitution Article 2: Some states must redraw their federal House districts every 10 years.
Result: All processes for redistricting are illegal. In practice, nice federal Judges sometimes decide to give maps a pass.
Taking race into account =/= discrimination. The laws on that subject are much more nuanced that what you describe.
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United States42694 Posts
14th amendment guarantees that racial disenfranchisement must be done through disparate impact.
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A short timeline on this specific topic. Even if Jr is being completely honest at this point, it's only because his back is to the wall. But there isn't but much of a reason that he is being completely honest.
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The real key to this story is going to be the acquaintance in the first line. Josh at TPM thinks it was Felix Sater. I used to be a bear/downer on the whole out and out 2016 Campaign Collusion story, but at this point everyone that is 1 or 2 degrees down from Trump had some kind of Russia thing going on.
Manafort was getting paid
Carter was a fully compromised Russian agent
Stone was tweeting wikileaks
Flynn was getting side Turkey/Russia money
Don Jr. and Kushner were hunting down dirt on HRC from the Russians
Sessions had to lie under oath about his Kislyak meetings
A dead guy who claimed he had contacts with Flynn was trying to buy deleted HRC emails of dark web Russians www.wsj.com
EDIT: other stories are saying the acquaintance is the guy from the 2013 Miss Universe pageant. www.washingtonpost.com
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I still think it's unlikely, but it's worth talking about: what would be the finish line in terms of proof of collusion? What would it take for some of the skeptics around here to say "okay, yes, Trump colluded dith Russia to swing the 2016 election"? If a Trump surrogate arranged a meeting with the Russians and received the information before the Wikileaks release, would that qualify? Or would the Trump campaign need to have "used" the info somehow? What if after the release Trump made statements/commercials about the info, and cast doubt on the idea that Russia provided the info even though he knew before it was released that Russia did it?
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I hope Mueller and his team of lawyers are taking their time building a nice, fat case, as evidence continues to be unveiled across this entire administration/family. I want to hear about any and all nailings all at once.
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On July 10 2017 08:52 NewSunshine wrote:
I hope Mueller and his team of lawyers are taking their time building a nice, fat case, as evidence continues to be unveiled across this entire administration/family. I want to hear about any and all nailings all at once.
Presuming he was doing that, who do you think would prosecute? Or do you see it working out differently?
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On Mueller, wait for the truth and the evidence to come out. Mueller has the best 15 prosecutors on the east coast on his team. Whatever they find, they will publicize and the American people will make their decision. Actual prosecution of Trump himself is exceedingly unlikely ... but boy the guys down the ladder taking money (Manafort,Flynn,Page) and/or the guys lying under oath/forms (Kushner,Sessions) are in some serious trouble.
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My money's still on the Russians manipulating a clueless Trump into office without him picking up on what was going on.
His staff being full of guys with links means they managed to get their people around him, but Trump himself being a full-on soviet agent is still very far fetched to me. I can imagine Kushner/Jr simply being dumb enough to take the bait when some shady dude offers them dirt on Hillary.
Either way the investigation has plenty to chew on.
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"But..but..the Russia thing was... supposed to be a big..nothing..burger.."
I think, there's still not enough hard evidence though. So it's just a nice headline to keep people in the indictement bubble, which will eventually burst, once reality sets in.
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On July 10 2017 11:04 thePunGun wrote:
"But..but..the Russia thing was... supposed to be a big..nothing..burger.."
I think, there's still not enough hard evidence though. So it's just a nice headline to keep people in the indictement bubble, which will eventually burst, once reality sets in.
So the indictment bubble bursts and he is indicted? Or the Russian one bursts and the US move on to the next stupid thing he did and try to get him indicted for that?
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The indictment bubble represents the illusion some people seem to have, that Trump will eventually get indicted.
edit:
It was a reference to the SNL City Culture Bubble Skit.
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Don't forget their different efforts to set up a back channel, their desire and consideration to lift sanctions, Flynn calling Kislyak to say they'd lift sanctions and no he wasn't doing that on his own.
Kushner asking to use Russian comms for a back channel. LOL what is that?
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On July 10 2017 10:36 Belisarius wrote:
My money's still on the Russians manipulating a clueless Trump into office without him picking up on what was going on.
His staff being full of guys with links means they managed to get their people around him, but Trump himself being a full-on soviet agent is still very far fetched to me. I can imagine Kushner/Jr simply being dumb enough to take the bait when some shady dude offers them dirt on Hillary.
Either way the investigation has plenty to chew on.
I'm 100% certain that none of them are innocent anymore or way over their heads. I used to think that but their intent are way too obvious at this point. Don Jr might have more money than brains like his dad but they're 100% aware of what they're doing.
They went to visit Natalia Veselnitskaya, a lawyer specifically there to talk about Magnitsky Act. An act that put a ban on Russian human right abusers, which pissed Putin so much that he retaliated by banned Americans from adopting Russian children. What would be the reason to visit this woman if it wasn't do discuss the Magnitsky Act? I really, really doubt Don Jr and Kushner really care about adopting Russian babies so its got to do with the Magnitsky Act.
The media kind of blindsided Don Jr by slowdripping the details and he's so goddamn stupid that he walked into it. The smarter one is Kushner, who predictably doesn't say anything self incriminating.
Some of the cabinet choices, everyone associated with the Trump Campaign at this point and their personal actions to this very day have the same line of thought: "we want to remove sanctions on Russia". The reason is very simple and obvious too: "we're going to get really rich when sanctions are lifted".
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EPT
