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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 8039

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-09 14:56:46
July 09 2017 14:55 GMT
#160761
On July 09 2017 23:36 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2017 23:30 NewSunshine wrote:
On July 09 2017 23:19 Gorsameth wrote:
On July 09 2017 22:47 NewSunshine wrote:
On July 09 2017 22:38 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
A true work of art this compilation video. Amazing music, great direction


The President of the United States, everyone.

Yes, he is.

What am I missing? there is nothing special at all in that video.

I suppose that's the saddest part of it all.

I'm serious, what is that video supposed to show?

"Here is a countries leader, shaking hands with other country leaders. Here he is posing for photos with other country leaders like every single summit ever".

There is nothing unusual or out of the ordinary that I see.

I'm guessing you are watching without sound

I think a choir singing MAGA while zooming in on Trumps head in photos is quite strange
Neosteel Enthusiast
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
July 09 2017 15:02 GMT
#160762
I would have said the need to make such a cringy video is what's a bit strange... I don't see Merkel ever making such a collage to show how everything's just fine.

Don't think there's anything with what's IN the video
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
July 09 2017 15:07 GMT
#160763
Even by non-Trump standards that just looks a lot like what the US might make. Nothing to see there.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21685 Posts
July 09 2017 15:12 GMT
#160764
Yeah, the cringe is the dumb music and the fact that Trump re-tweeted it.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3188 Posts
July 09 2017 15:12 GMT
#160765
The song's bad. It's also pretty pathetic to try to turn your campaign slogan into a patriotic anthem. But even given that, it's really just not a great song
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
July 09 2017 15:13 GMT
#160766
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
July 09 2017 15:24 GMT
#160767
lol didnt even have sound enabled. I'm losing it with that maga song who did that
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
July 09 2017 15:24 GMT
#160768
On July 10 2017 00:07 LegalLord wrote:
Even by non-Trump standards that just looks a lot like what the US might make. Nothing to see there.

It looks like what some dude on the internet might make. Let's try to hold our POTUS to a decent standard here.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
8983 Posts
July 09 2017 15:26 GMT
#160769
On July 10 2017 00:13 Doodsmack wrote:
https://twitter.com/ericgeller/status/883879631887015936

Whoa. Check the balls on this guy!
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35147 Posts
July 09 2017 15:39 GMT
#160770
On July 10 2017 00:24 Toadesstern wrote:
lol didnt even have sound enabled. I'm losing it with that maga song who did that

It reminds me of this.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
July 09 2017 15:41 GMT
#160771
The stupidity of this agreement really begs for an explanation.

LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
July 09 2017 15:42 GMT
#160772
On July 09 2017 23:55 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2017 22:21 LegalLord wrote:
On July 09 2017 17:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Just out of curiosity, which female politician you guys could see becoming a good POTUS candidate?

The wording on that makes it tough to answer since "good POTUS candidate" does conflict a fair bit with who I'd like to see in office. But hey, let's throw out a few names.

Tulsi Gabbard is one I like. She's an odd one but I would vote for her.
Warren is a huge maybe. I criticize her for being a one-trick pony but I would definitely give her a chance at redemption if she sought to run seriously.
Gabby Giffords and Tammy Duckworth are two "sympathy vote" candidates who seem reasonable enough. They have enough attention to have a chance, they would just have to make their candidacy stick.
From the Republican side, the most reasonable name being thrown around is Nikki Haley. Personally I think she's doing a kind of bad job at the UN but I think she could get the kind of broad appeal she would need to be a good candidate.

I'll admit I had to reach a fair bit to get a list of five names. But part of that is that prominent male politicians are far more numerous, and I would still have trouble finding five good male choices for president in 2020. I very much disagree with the implicit idea that misogyny would sink any possible female candidate - it's just very clear that Hillary was the wrong choice, and being a woman doesn't somehow explain all her badness or the common perception thereof away. Billy Clinton for example has all the same baggage as she does - and it's not his maleness that gets him more popularity, but more so his intrinsic charm and charisma.

From the low bar of Trump appointment performance thus far, Haley's done great.

Dems are still stuck on stupid if they blame Hillary's loss on her status as woman. It's the remnants of the post-election messianic complex she's obtained. Any woman can outperform by running a traditional message campaign (not doubling down on this group-that group identity politics), show passion and voice, and not be proven a untrustworthy liar throughout her political career.

Dems have a weak field again for 2020. Seriously, good luck.

The bigger problem, perhaps, is not that she is a woman and campaigns on it as an issue, but that she uses that as an excuse to pooh-pooh away the shittiness that people hate her for. Stupid shit like "women who don't vote for Hillary Clinton go to hell" (a line she took with a giant banana grin) and "I can't be part of the establishment because I'm a women" isn't misogyny, it's stupid identity politics. Beyond that, you would have to make some fairly convoluted ("implicit misogyny" and the like) arguments to justify the idea that she lost because woman. That's fairly evidently not why it happened, she just sucked and Trump sucked and sucky things happened from the merged suckage.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
July 09 2017 15:45 GMT
#160773
On July 10 2017 00:41 Doodsmack wrote:
The stupidity of this agreement really begs for an explanation.

https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/884022979004428289

What do you mean? It's kind of like getting someone from Citigroup or Goldman Sachs to run the US Treasury. You get an expert in the field who knows exactly what's up, with no ulterior motives.
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3188 Posts
July 09 2017 15:57 GMT
#160774
Is the concept of multiple sufficient causes really still beyond people? Here's 3 points. Does anyone disagree with any of these three?

1) Hillary lost the election.
2) It was really close.
3) We don't really know how much sexism is out there or how much it affected people's votes.

If these three points are granted it's just plain dumb to boldly proclaim "sexism didn't cost her the election" or "it wasn't that she was a woman, it was x y z." It's entirely possible that in a hypothetical universe where sexism wasn't present she would have won. That doesn't mean your x y z wouldn't have made the difference too, but if you're responding to Kwark's comment, it's not crazy to think that the dems would have a better chance with an old white guy.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
July 09 2017 16:07 GMT
#160775
On July 10 2017 00:57 ChristianS wrote:
Is the concept of multiple sufficient causes really still beyond people? Here's 3 points. Does anyone disagree with any of these three?

1) Hillary lost the election.
2) It was really close.
3) We don't really know how much sexism is out there or how much it affected people's votes.

If these three points are granted it's just plain dumb to boldly proclaim "sexism didn't cost her the election" or "it wasn't that she was a woman, it was x y z." It's entirely possible that in a hypothetical universe where sexism wasn't present she would have won. That doesn't mean your x y z wouldn't have made the difference too, but if you're responding to Kwark's comment, it's not crazy to think that the dems would have a better chance with an old white guy.

You could make the exact same argument for Russia, or Comey, or deplorables, or whatever the fuck else you want. The bottom line is this: it should not have been close, it should have been a blowout. Based on the relative policy positions Hillary was definitely better positioned to win. Given Trump's temperament and qualifications or lack thereof, he should have lost by at least a 5 percent margin. But it's not the tiny little things that caused her to be vulnerable - it's the large scale scumminess that opened the door to a mildly different kind of scum.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21685 Posts
July 09 2017 16:24 GMT
#160776
On July 10 2017 01:07 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2017 00:57 ChristianS wrote:
Is the concept of multiple sufficient causes really still beyond people? Here's 3 points. Does anyone disagree with any of these three?

1) Hillary lost the election.
2) It was really close.
3) We don't really know how much sexism is out there or how much it affected people's votes.

If these three points are granted it's just plain dumb to boldly proclaim "sexism didn't cost her the election" or "it wasn't that she was a woman, it was x y z." It's entirely possible that in a hypothetical universe where sexism wasn't present she would have won. That doesn't mean your x y z wouldn't have made the difference too, but if you're responding to Kwark's comment, it's not crazy to think that the dems would have a better chance with an old white guy.

You could make the exact same argument for Russia, or Comey, or deplorables, or whatever the fuck else you want. The bottom line is this: it should not have been close, it should have been a blowout. Based on the relative policy positions Hillary was definitely better positioned to win. Given Trump's temperament and qualifications or lack thereof, he should have lost by at least a 5 percent margin. But it's not the tiny little things that caused her to be vulnerable - it's the large scale scumminess that opened the door to a mildly different kind of scum.

Yes, it should have been a blowout. The fact that it wasn't shows us that the US is a shittier place then we hoped it was.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-09 16:29:06
July 09 2017 16:28 GMT
#160777
The fact that in this country, one party could nominate Donald Trump, and the other party would essentially take the view of "what's the worst candidate we could possibly get away with?"... yeah, definitely a demerit for the US as a whole.

Too bad "the other party" overshot on candidate badness and just straight up lost to Trump.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-09 16:43:45
July 09 2017 16:41 GMT
#160778
and legal is back to harping on clinton falsely yet again; can't you just let it go legal?
clinton may have come up organically in the thread, but what you're doing is just bringing up the same ol' false spiel over and over, and it's very unhelpful and incredibly tiresome, and brings nothing new to the thread; all you do is force people to rehash the same old arguments over and over.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
July 09 2017 16:59 GMT
#160779
On July 10 2017 01:24 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2017 01:07 LegalLord wrote:
On July 10 2017 00:57 ChristianS wrote:
Is the concept of multiple sufficient causes really still beyond people? Here's 3 points. Does anyone disagree with any of these three?

1) Hillary lost the election.
2) It was really close.
3) We don't really know how much sexism is out there or how much it affected people's votes.

If these three points are granted it's just plain dumb to boldly proclaim "sexism didn't cost her the election" or "it wasn't that she was a woman, it was x y z." It's entirely possible that in a hypothetical universe where sexism wasn't present she would have won. That doesn't mean your x y z wouldn't have made the difference too, but if you're responding to Kwark's comment, it's not crazy to think that the dems would have a better chance with an old white guy.

You could make the exact same argument for Russia, or Comey, or deplorables, or whatever the fuck else you want. The bottom line is this: it should not have been close, it should have been a blowout. Based on the relative policy positions Hillary was definitely better positioned to win. Given Trump's temperament and qualifications or lack thereof, he should have lost by at least a 5 percent margin. But it's not the tiny little things that caused her to be vulnerable - it's the large scale scumminess that opened the door to a mildly different kind of scum.

Yes, it should have been a blowout. The fact that it wasn't shows us that the US is a shittier place then we hoped it was.

I'm glad you're coming around to my point of view))
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21685 Posts
July 09 2017 17:07 GMT
#160780
On July 10 2017 01:59 a_flayer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2017 01:24 Gorsameth wrote:
On July 10 2017 01:07 LegalLord wrote:
On July 10 2017 00:57 ChristianS wrote:
Is the concept of multiple sufficient causes really still beyond people? Here's 3 points. Does anyone disagree with any of these three?

1) Hillary lost the election.
2) It was really close.
3) We don't really know how much sexism is out there or how much it affected people's votes.

If these three points are granted it's just plain dumb to boldly proclaim "sexism didn't cost her the election" or "it wasn't that she was a woman, it was x y z." It's entirely possible that in a hypothetical universe where sexism wasn't present she would have won. That doesn't mean your x y z wouldn't have made the difference too, but if you're responding to Kwark's comment, it's not crazy to think that the dems would have a better chance with an old white guy.

You could make the exact same argument for Russia, or Comey, or deplorables, or whatever the fuck else you want. The bottom line is this: it should not have been close, it should have been a blowout. Based on the relative policy positions Hillary was definitely better positioned to win. Given Trump's temperament and qualifications or lack thereof, he should have lost by at least a 5 percent margin. But it's not the tiny little things that caused her to be vulnerable - it's the large scale scumminess that opened the door to a mildly different kind of scum.

Yes, it should have been a blowout. The fact that it wasn't shows us that the US is a shittier place then we hoped it was.

I'm glad you're coming around to my point of view))

Ha, hardly. Pretty sure I made that point back when the election results came in.

And its not your 'The US isnt great' standpoint I have issue with, its the complete 180 dive into Kremlin propaganda.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
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