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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7983

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-01 23:06:01
July 01 2017 23:05 GMT
#159641
On July 02 2017 04:36 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2017 04:31 zlefin wrote:
the passport bit made me wonder so I checked the landsize; the US has more than twice the land area of the EU. I thought it was closer than that.

Yeah, it's a pretty stark difference. France is one of EU's biggest countries and is about the size of Texas. They also both have a Paris.
So what? France has twice as many people. Europe in general has twice as many people as USA. The countries which make up the EU contains more people, yet the idea to only travel within the EU is a pretty strange one for those living within it. Yet most Europeans in the high income European countries have travelled outside to another continent within their lifetimes. Nearly everyone owns a passport irregardless of whether they need one to travel within the EU. Even the poor. It's pretty obvious why you feel a bit diminshed about the whole passport thing, but saying that USA is a large country doesn't explain it.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18825 Posts
July 01 2017 23:58 GMT
#159642
On July 02 2017 07:35 Monochromatic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2017 05:55 KwarK wrote:
Healthcare is a hot potato where you get nothing but problems for doing anything. Provide healthcare and people don't want to pay. Take away healthcare and people don't want to die.


With that statement in mind, how can you advocate for universal healthcare? A very clear solution to this problem is to never get involved in the first place.

That's neither a solution nor clear.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-02 00:07:30
July 02 2017 00:07 GMT
#159643
indeed; a clearer solution would be to talk about the known psychological underpinnings of people, and try to devise a way to adjust democracy to account for the problems caused by them. and that isn't much clearer
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
July 02 2017 00:33 GMT
#159644
So... he's slowly quickly and steadily going off the deep end...

[image loading]
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
July 02 2017 00:36 GMT
#159645
I still don't see *anyone* in Congress talking about the supply side of health care. It's like they think they can fix the problems by throwing money at them.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-02 00:43:02
July 02 2017 00:41 GMT
#159646
On July 02 2017 09:36 Buckyman wrote:
I still don't see *anyone* in Congress talking about the supply side of health care. It's like they think they can fix the problems by throwing money at them.

That's because you don't hear much about the policy tlak; few people actually want to listen to policy, so you don't hear much about it unless you really go looking for it from the policy wonks.
the regular news doesn't report on it much because people don't bother reading it if they do.
and the realities of governing mean all actual proposals tend to hurt someone, so politicians tend to avoid specifics.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13920 Posts
July 02 2017 00:44 GMT
#159647
I mean I can totally appreciate the president useing twitter as a pipeline to increase transparency on a day to day "what am I up to and thinking about thing on the news and ask questions to tweeter-verse about random issues I want to peddle" but for god damm sake your the executive of the most powerful superpower the world has seen and you act like a child. You don't have to suffer insults because you're a warlord that controls the worlds seas. You don't have to give a shit about joe opposition because you're an emperor.

Everyone's whos been afraid of what trump will do and what he might do might turn out to be silly for thinking he could have gotten anything done in the first place. It won't be too long now until his window for any legislation closes and everyones looking down the barrel of the 2018 elections.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-02 01:08:35
July 02 2017 01:01 GMT
#159648
On July 02 2017 09:44 Sermokala wrote:
I mean I can totally appreciate the president useing twitter as a pipeline to increase transparency on a day to day "what am I up to and thinking about thing on the news and ask questions to tweeter-verse about random issues I want to peddle" but for god damm sake your the executive of the most powerful superpower the world has seen and you act like a child. You don't have to suffer insults because you're a warlord that controls the worlds seas. You don't have to give a shit about joe opposition because you're an emperor.

Everyone's whos been afraid of what trump will do and what he might do might turn out to be silly for thinking he could have gotten anything done in the first place. It won't be too long now until his window for any legislation closes and everyones looking down the barrel of the 2018 elections.

not if what they're afraid of is institutional damage, and the degradation of american prestige and international influence.

Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
July 02 2017 01:12 GMT
#159649
On July 02 2017 10:01 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2017 09:44 Sermokala wrote:
I mean I can totally appreciate the president useing twitter as a pipeline to increase transparency on a day to day "what am I up to and thinking about thing on the news and ask questions to tweeter-verse about random issues I want to peddle" but for god damm sake your the executive of the most powerful superpower the world has seen and you act like a child. You don't have to suffer insults because you're a warlord that controls the worlds seas. You don't have to give a shit about joe opposition because you're an emperor.

Everyone's whos been afraid of what trump will do and what he might do might turn out to be silly for thinking he could have gotten anything done in the first place. It won't be too long now until his window for any legislation closes and everyones looking down the barrel of the 2018 elections.

not if what they're afraid of is institutional damage, and the degradation of american prestige and international influence.


Not that American Exceptionalism ever had any basis in reality to begin with, but we're gonna lose any excuse to have it real fast.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Mercy13
Profile Joined January 2011
United States718 Posts
July 02 2017 01:18 GMT
#159650
On July 02 2017 05:55 KwarK wrote:
Healthcare is a hot potato where you get nothing but problems for doing anything. Provide healthcare and people don't want to pay. Take away healthcare and people don't want to die. Nationalize things and Ben Carson says that this is literally slavery. Ration things and Fox News says the death panels are coming for grandma.

I can absolutely see why the Democrats don't want to push big idea plans. The American people won't thank them for it. Ultimately the problem with politics has always been the electorate.


I think they need to make an affirmative case for the policies they support. We saw in the election what happens when they spend all their energy talking about how terrible the other party is without making a case for their own policies.

They don't need to sell a whole white paper about how to restructure the healthcare system, but they should at least have a few generic talking points about their own ideas to use when journalists ask them about healthcare.

Public option + price controls has a nice ring to it, but there's lots of other ideas which would work instead. I just haven't heard them propose any meaningful ones.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
July 02 2017 01:49 GMT
#159651
On July 02 2017 10:18 Mercy13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2017 05:55 KwarK wrote:
Healthcare is a hot potato where you get nothing but problems for doing anything. Provide healthcare and people don't want to pay. Take away healthcare and people don't want to die. Nationalize things and Ben Carson says that this is literally slavery. Ration things and Fox News says the death panels are coming for grandma.

I can absolutely see why the Democrats don't want to push big idea plans. The American people won't thank them for it. Ultimately the problem with politics has always been the electorate.


I think they need to make an affirmative case for the policies they support. We saw in the election what happens when they spend all their energy talking about how terrible the other party is without making a case for their own policies.

They don't need to sell a whole white paper about how to restructure the healthcare system, but they should at least have a few generic talking points about their own ideas to use when journalists ask them about healthcare.

Public option + price controls has a nice ring to it, but there's lots of other ideas which would work instead. I just haven't heard them propose any meaningful ones.

As I'm reading it, though, the questions were not about "what is your goal with healthcare", but what would they try to do if the Republicans actually decided to try negotiating with Democrats in this current sitting government.

Granted, it doesn't make their answers less vague. But understandable, at least, that they aren't saying what their limits are before voting on a Republican bill.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35142 Posts
July 02 2017 02:06 GMT
#159652
On July 02 2017 08:05 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2017 04:36 Gahlo wrote:
On July 02 2017 04:31 zlefin wrote:
the passport bit made me wonder so I checked the landsize; the US has more than twice the land area of the EU. I thought it was closer than that.

Yeah, it's a pretty stark difference. France is one of EU's biggest countries and is about the size of Texas. They also both have a Paris.
So what? France has twice as many people. Europe in general has twice as many people as USA. The countries which make up the EU contains more people, yet the idea to only travel within the EU is a pretty strange one for those living within it. Yet most Europeans in the high income European countries have travelled outside to another continent within their lifetimes. Nearly everyone owns a passport irregardless of whether they need one to travel within the EU. Even the poor. It's pretty obvious why you feel a bit diminshed about the whole passport thing, but saying that USA is a large country doesn't explain it.

It matters because the space that the USA takes up lets you experience a vast array of environments without needing a passport. I don't need a passport to go to Hawaii, while I'm pretty sure you need a passport to go to Mauritius. So unless I'm destination traveling, like if I wanted to see Venice, I don't have a purpose for owning a passport. I'm not going to spend money so I can get a new passport when I don't intend to use it.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
July 02 2017 02:16 GMT
#159653
His fingers really have a life all of their own.

Porouscloud - NA LoL
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
July 02 2017 02:41 GMT
#159654
On July 02 2017 10:18 Mercy13 wrote:
Public option + price controls has a nice ring to it, but there's lots of other ideas which would work instead. I just haven't heard them propose any meaningful ones.


What's the point of having price controls if there's a public option?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23214 Posts
July 02 2017 02:42 GMT
#159655
On July 02 2017 11:16 Amui wrote:
His fingers really have a life all of their own.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/881281755017355264


You all just don't appreciate Trump's beauty. Trump is avant-garde af.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4748 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-02 02:53:04
July 02 2017 02:47 GMT
#159656
As a follow up to this tweet: + Show Spoiler +
it should serve as a good reason why we should be careful with tweets and who is tweeting.

Just from some google searching it seems like most red states are saying the following: We will provide publicly available information, but not things like Social Security numbers.

Some say they are prohibited by law from releasing the information. So, while I don't really object to states telling the federal government to pound sand, these reports are missing important details.

Edit: fixed link
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7291 Posts
July 02 2017 03:08 GMT
#159657
On July 02 2017 11:16 Amui wrote:
His fingers really have a life all of their own.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/881281755017355264


The notion that hes defining what is and will in the future be considered presidential is a little unsettling.

God I hope that notion is as asinine as it feels and sounds.
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
Mercy13
Profile Joined January 2011
United States718 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-02 04:02:35
July 02 2017 03:48 GMT
#159658
On July 02 2017 11:41 Buckyman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2017 10:18 Mercy13 wrote:
Public option + price controls has a nice ring to it, but there's lots of other ideas which would work instead. I just haven't heard them propose any meaningful ones.


What's the point of having price controls if there's a public option?


A public option would probably be too expensive without price controls. Medicaid and Medicare both include price controls for example.

Edit:

Price controls are a good idea regardless. The way providers currently set rates is rediculous.

Edit 2 (sorry):

A public option is different from single payer in case that's why you're confused.
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
July 02 2017 04:14 GMT
#159659
On July 02 2017 12:48 Mercy13 wrote:
A public option is different from single payer in case that's why you're confused.


I understand what public option means. I must be confused about what you mean by price controls.
Mercy13
Profile Joined January 2011
United States718 Posts
July 02 2017 04:18 GMT
#159660
On July 02 2017 13:14 Buckyman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2017 12:48 Mercy13 wrote:
A public option is different from single payer in case that's why you're confused.


I understand what public option means. I must be confused about what you mean by price controls.


Price controls like in Medicaid, where the government specifies what it will pay for each procedure.
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