|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
United States43989 Posts
On January 13 2014 04:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 04:30 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:09 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:04 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:58 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:38 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 12 2014 21:25 Biff The Understudy wrote:
[quote]
Fascinating to think that the world's science powerhouse, that has brought us iPhones, space shuttles and sent men on the moon has only 15% of its population really believing in science, and 45% of its population holding on absolutely medieval beliefs.
I wouldn't like being a 35th century's archeologist trying to understand that country in the XXth and XXIst century. It's going to be a giant mindfuck for future observers. You do realize you can cherry pick your beliefs, right? Someone who's religious can understand the science perfectly fine but choose not to roll with that in their personal lives. Sure, and someone could be an airline pilot professionally and choose to deny that gravity exists in their private life but at a certain point it's reasonable to expect someone to pick beliefs that conform with reality. While I accept that someone can choose to disbelieve in evolution, gravity, left (I heard it's just right in a mirror) or any number of other silly things people should be held accountable for their beliefs. If they choose to believe really dumb shit then they're probably just really dumb. You're waling a fine line between making on obvious point and being a bigot. Evolution is a scientific fact and people who don't understand that are either willfully ignorant or just stupid. Now I'm not saying all religious people are stupid, most have been smart enough to get around the obvious cognitive dissonance caused by being an intelligent individual trying to hold a belief they know is wrong and settled on God having a passive background role in the process. But those that have declined to take the out given to them by God guided evolution should merit a special type of contempt usually reserved for flat earthers and adults who still believe in Santa. Again, we don't put up with this shit regarding gravity. If someone just flatly insisted that things didn't fall when dropped on earth you'd seek a diagnosis for them. Hell, even if people argued that while things do fall it's only because an invisible, all powerful and all knowing being that loved them was everywhere at once dragging them about you'd still think that was pretty dumb. Evolution gets a special pass for this bullshit in America, and only in America, because the mass delusion has taken hold so deeply that people don't get called out on it enough. Other crazy shit is rightfully dismissed but doubting evolution, despite being no less crazy, has a critical mass that makes it acceptable and it won't change until people start challenging it. Tolerance, Kwark. If there's one thing Europeans should know by now, it's that tolerance has value. I'm not saying we should put them into camps and gas them, I'm saying it shouldn't be socially acceptable to believe something so stupid and that it already isn't in the case of every other clearly ridiculous belief. It's not that Americans don't feel the same way as Europeans regarding idiocy, you wouldn't employ someone who came to a job interview with his shoes on the wrong feet and then told you he believed in his heart that both feet are the same shape, it's that disbelief in evolution has somehow been grandfathered in as a special exemption to the social conventions against being a moron. In America it's generally considered bad form to hate on someone over religious / cultural differences. Frankly, intolerance of this sort seems extremely moronic to me and I can't imagine you having an easy time getting hired if you wear these views on your sleeve. Believing really dumb shit should be a thing you're ashamed of. It's not a religious or cultural difference, it's a choice. If I don't hire you because you've got an Arabic name then I'm discriminating against you because of your culture. If I don't hire you because you couldn't work out how to get into the building because you're choosing not to believe in doors today then I'm discriminating against your stupidity. They're not the same thing and shouldn't be treated the same way. A lot of Americans believe in their heart that Obama is disqualified from being President for being a Kenyan but it doesn't count for shit when they try to ignore his laws because Americans, like the rest of the world, don't let stupid beliefs overrule reality. It's only evolution that gets a free pass. If you can't understand the difference between someone dis-believing in evolution on religious grounds and someone not being able to figure out how a door works, you are, without a doubt, stupid.
No, they know how doors work in the same way that most religious people can understand the mechanics of evolution. They're just choosing not to accept it.
The difference is that door denial is so incredibly rare that if you tried it then you'd immediately get called out by your peers and eventually be too humiliated to keep going whereas evolution denial doesn't seem to merit the same response. If evolution denial wasn't already so common it'd get the same response as shown by the fact it does get the same response in the rest of the civilised world.
But let's take a real example, flat earthers. Would you judge a flat earther as being as intelligent as someone who believed the earth was round given no other information?
|
there are no "religious grounds" - you seem to be saying "since it's for religion, it's valid not to believe in that"...
|
On January 13 2014 04:04 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 03:58 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:38 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 12 2014 21:25 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 12 2014 16:08 IgnE wrote:![[image loading]](http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/mtmhrggv0u278tchtddptw.gif) Evolution still deeply unpopular among Americans. Dismissed by 4 in 10 as elitist malarkey. Politicians shift towards promoting Intelligent Design in public schools. Fascinating to think that the world's science powerhouse, that has brought us iPhones, space shuttles and sent men on the moon has only 15% of its population really believing in science, and 45% of its population holding on absolutely medieval beliefs. I wouldn't like being a 35th century's archeologist trying to understand that country in the XXth and XXIst century. It's going to be a giant mindfuck for future observers. You do realize you can cherry pick your beliefs, right? Someone who's religious can understand the science perfectly fine but choose not to roll with that in their personal lives. Sure, and someone could be an airline pilot professionally and choose to deny that gravity exists in their private life but at a certain point it's reasonable to expect someone to pick beliefs that conform with reality. While I accept that someone can choose to disbelieve in evolution, gravity, left (I heard it's just right in a mirror) or any number of other silly things people should be held accountable for their beliefs. If they choose to believe really dumb shit then they're probably just really dumb. You're waling a fine line between making on obvious point and being a bigot. Evolution is a scientific fact and people who don't understand that are either willfully ignorant or just stupid. Now I'm not saying all religious people are stupid, most have been smart enough to get around the obvious cognitive dissonance caused by being an intelligent individual trying to hold a belief they know is wrong and settled on God having a passive background role in the process. But those that have declined to take the out given to them by God guided evolution should merit a special type of contempt usually reserved for flat earthers and adults who still believe in Santa. Again, we don't put up with this shit regarding gravity. If someone just flatly insisted that things didn't fall when dropped on earth you'd seek a diagnosis for them. Hell, even if people argued that while things do fall it's only because an invisible, all powerful and all knowing being that loved them was everywhere at once dragging them about you'd still think that was pretty dumb. Evolution gets a special pass for this bullshit in America, and only in America, because the mass delusion has taken hold so deeply that people don't get called out on it enough. Other crazy shit is rightfully dismissed but doubting evolution, despite being no less crazy, has a critical mass that makes it acceptable and it won't change until people start challenging it. Tolerance, Kwark. If there's one thing Europeans should know by now, it's that tolerance has value.
And you as American should know that political correctness is the scourge of our time 
|
On January 13 2014 04:39 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 04:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:30 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:09 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:04 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:58 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:38 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
[quote]
You do realize you can cherry pick your beliefs, right? Someone who's religious can understand the science perfectly fine but choose not to roll with that in their personal lives. Sure, and someone could be an airline pilot professionally and choose to deny that gravity exists in their private life but at a certain point it's reasonable to expect someone to pick beliefs that conform with reality. While I accept that someone can choose to disbelieve in evolution, gravity, left (I heard it's just right in a mirror) or any number of other silly things people should be held accountable for their beliefs. If they choose to believe really dumb shit then they're probably just really dumb. You're waling a fine line between making on obvious point and being a bigot. Evolution is a scientific fact and people who don't understand that are either willfully ignorant or just stupid. Now I'm not saying all religious people are stupid, most have been smart enough to get around the obvious cognitive dissonance caused by being an intelligent individual trying to hold a belief they know is wrong and settled on God having a passive background role in the process. But those that have declined to take the out given to them by God guided evolution should merit a special type of contempt usually reserved for flat earthers and adults who still believe in Santa. Again, we don't put up with this shit regarding gravity. If someone just flatly insisted that things didn't fall when dropped on earth you'd seek a diagnosis for them. Hell, even if people argued that while things do fall it's only because an invisible, all powerful and all knowing being that loved them was everywhere at once dragging them about you'd still think that was pretty dumb. Evolution gets a special pass for this bullshit in America, and only in America, because the mass delusion has taken hold so deeply that people don't get called out on it enough. Other crazy shit is rightfully dismissed but doubting evolution, despite being no less crazy, has a critical mass that makes it acceptable and it won't change until people start challenging it. Tolerance, Kwark. If there's one thing Europeans should know by now, it's that tolerance has value. I'm not saying we should put them into camps and gas them, I'm saying it shouldn't be socially acceptable to believe something so stupid and that it already isn't in the case of every other clearly ridiculous belief. It's not that Americans don't feel the same way as Europeans regarding idiocy, you wouldn't employ someone who came to a job interview with his shoes on the wrong feet and then told you he believed in his heart that both feet are the same shape, it's that disbelief in evolution has somehow been grandfathered in as a special exemption to the social conventions against being a moron. In America it's generally considered bad form to hate on someone over religious / cultural differences. Frankly, intolerance of this sort seems extremely moronic to me and I can't imagine you having an easy time getting hired if you wear these views on your sleeve. Believing really dumb shit should be a thing you're ashamed of. It's not a religious or cultural difference, it's a choice. If I don't hire you because you've got an Arabic name then I'm discriminating against you because of your culture. If I don't hire you because you couldn't work out how to get into the building because you're choosing not to believe in doors today then I'm discriminating against your stupidity. They're not the same thing and shouldn't be treated the same way. A lot of Americans believe in their heart that Obama is disqualified from being President for being a Kenyan but it doesn't count for shit when they try to ignore his laws because Americans, like the rest of the world, don't let stupid beliefs overrule reality. It's only evolution that gets a free pass. If you can't understand the difference between someone dis-believing in evolution on religious grounds and someone not being able to figure out how a door works, you are, without a doubt, stupid. No, they know how doors work in the same way that most religious people can understand the mechanics of evolution. They're just choosing not to accept it. The difference is that door denial is so incredibly rare that if you tried it then you'd immediately get called out by your peers and eventually be too humiliated to keep going whereas evolution denial doesn't seem to merit the same response. If evolution denial wasn't already so common it'd get the same response as shown by the fact it does get the same response in the rest of the civilised world. But let's take a real example, flat earthers. Would you judge a flat earther as being as intelligent as someone who believed the earth was round given no other information?
i doubt that is the case for most creationists
however, the could probably understand it if they would seriously try to learn about it.
|
On January 13 2014 04:39 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 04:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:30 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:09 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:04 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:58 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:38 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
[quote]
You do realize you can cherry pick your beliefs, right? Someone who's religious can understand the science perfectly fine but choose not to roll with that in their personal lives. Sure, and someone could be an airline pilot professionally and choose to deny that gravity exists in their private life but at a certain point it's reasonable to expect someone to pick beliefs that conform with reality. While I accept that someone can choose to disbelieve in evolution, gravity, left (I heard it's just right in a mirror) or any number of other silly things people should be held accountable for their beliefs. If they choose to believe really dumb shit then they're probably just really dumb. You're waling a fine line between making on obvious point and being a bigot. Evolution is a scientific fact and people who don't understand that are either willfully ignorant or just stupid. Now I'm not saying all religious people are stupid, most have been smart enough to get around the obvious cognitive dissonance caused by being an intelligent individual trying to hold a belief they know is wrong and settled on God having a passive background role in the process. But those that have declined to take the out given to them by God guided evolution should merit a special type of contempt usually reserved for flat earthers and adults who still believe in Santa. Again, we don't put up with this shit regarding gravity. If someone just flatly insisted that things didn't fall when dropped on earth you'd seek a diagnosis for them. Hell, even if people argued that while things do fall it's only because an invisible, all powerful and all knowing being that loved them was everywhere at once dragging them about you'd still think that was pretty dumb. Evolution gets a special pass for this bullshit in America, and only in America, because the mass delusion has taken hold so deeply that people don't get called out on it enough. Other crazy shit is rightfully dismissed but doubting evolution, despite being no less crazy, has a critical mass that makes it acceptable and it won't change until people start challenging it. Tolerance, Kwark. If there's one thing Europeans should know by now, it's that tolerance has value. I'm not saying we should put them into camps and gas them, I'm saying it shouldn't be socially acceptable to believe something so stupid and that it already isn't in the case of every other clearly ridiculous belief. It's not that Americans don't feel the same way as Europeans regarding idiocy, you wouldn't employ someone who came to a job interview with his shoes on the wrong feet and then told you he believed in his heart that both feet are the same shape, it's that disbelief in evolution has somehow been grandfathered in as a special exemption to the social conventions against being a moron. In America it's generally considered bad form to hate on someone over religious / cultural differences. Frankly, intolerance of this sort seems extremely moronic to me and I can't imagine you having an easy time getting hired if you wear these views on your sleeve. Believing really dumb shit should be a thing you're ashamed of. It's not a religious or cultural difference, it's a choice. If I don't hire you because you've got an Arabic name then I'm discriminating against you because of your culture. If I don't hire you because you couldn't work out how to get into the building because you're choosing not to believe in doors today then I'm discriminating against your stupidity. They're not the same thing and shouldn't be treated the same way. A lot of Americans believe in their heart that Obama is disqualified from being President for being a Kenyan but it doesn't count for shit when they try to ignore his laws because Americans, like the rest of the world, don't let stupid beliefs overrule reality. It's only evolution that gets a free pass. If you can't understand the difference between someone dis-believing in evolution on religious grounds and someone not being able to figure out how a door works, you are, without a doubt, stupid. No, they know how doors work in the same way that most religious people can understand the mechanics of evolution. They're just choosing not to accept it. The difference is that door denial is so incredibly rare that if you tried it then you'd immediately get called out by your peers and eventually be too humiliated to keep going whereas evolution denial doesn't seem to merit the same response. If evolution denial wasn't already so common it'd get the same response as shown by the fact it does get the same response in the rest of the civilised world. But let's take a real example, flat earthers. Would you judge a flat earther as being as intelligent as someone who believed the earth was round given no other information?
You actually run into people that don't believe in doors?
|
United States43989 Posts
On January 13 2014 04:50 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 04:39 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:30 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:09 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:04 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:58 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:38 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Sure, and someone could be an airline pilot professionally and choose to deny that gravity exists in their private life but at a certain point it's reasonable to expect someone to pick beliefs that conform with reality. While I accept that someone can choose to disbelieve in evolution, gravity, left (I heard it's just right in a mirror) or any number of other silly things people should be held accountable for their beliefs. If they choose to believe really dumb shit then they're probably just really dumb. You're waling a fine line between making on obvious point and being a bigot. Evolution is a scientific fact and people who don't understand that are either willfully ignorant or just stupid. Now I'm not saying all religious people are stupid, most have been smart enough to get around the obvious cognitive dissonance caused by being an intelligent individual trying to hold a belief they know is wrong and settled on God having a passive background role in the process. But those that have declined to take the out given to them by God guided evolution should merit a special type of contempt usually reserved for flat earthers and adults who still believe in Santa. Again, we don't put up with this shit regarding gravity. If someone just flatly insisted that things didn't fall when dropped on earth you'd seek a diagnosis for them. Hell, even if people argued that while things do fall it's only because an invisible, all powerful and all knowing being that loved them was everywhere at once dragging them about you'd still think that was pretty dumb. Evolution gets a special pass for this bullshit in America, and only in America, because the mass delusion has taken hold so deeply that people don't get called out on it enough. Other crazy shit is rightfully dismissed but doubting evolution, despite being no less crazy, has a critical mass that makes it acceptable and it won't change until people start challenging it. Tolerance, Kwark. If there's one thing Europeans should know by now, it's that tolerance has value. I'm not saying we should put them into camps and gas them, I'm saying it shouldn't be socially acceptable to believe something so stupid and that it already isn't in the case of every other clearly ridiculous belief. It's not that Americans don't feel the same way as Europeans regarding idiocy, you wouldn't employ someone who came to a job interview with his shoes on the wrong feet and then told you he believed in his heart that both feet are the same shape, it's that disbelief in evolution has somehow been grandfathered in as a special exemption to the social conventions against being a moron. In America it's generally considered bad form to hate on someone over religious / cultural differences. Frankly, intolerance of this sort seems extremely moronic to me and I can't imagine you having an easy time getting hired if you wear these views on your sleeve. Believing really dumb shit should be a thing you're ashamed of. It's not a religious or cultural difference, it's a choice. If I don't hire you because you've got an Arabic name then I'm discriminating against you because of your culture. If I don't hire you because you couldn't work out how to get into the building because you're choosing not to believe in doors today then I'm discriminating against your stupidity. They're not the same thing and shouldn't be treated the same way. A lot of Americans believe in their heart that Obama is disqualified from being President for being a Kenyan but it doesn't count for shit when they try to ignore his laws because Americans, like the rest of the world, don't let stupid beliefs overrule reality. It's only evolution that gets a free pass. If you can't understand the difference between someone dis-believing in evolution on religious grounds and someone not being able to figure out how a door works, you are, without a doubt, stupid. No, they know how doors work in the same way that most religious people can understand the mechanics of evolution. They're just choosing not to accept it. The difference is that door denial is so incredibly rare that if you tried it then you'd immediately get called out by your peers and eventually be too humiliated to keep going whereas evolution denial doesn't seem to merit the same response. If evolution denial wasn't already so common it'd get the same response as shown by the fact it does get the same response in the rest of the civilised world. But let's take a real example, flat earthers. Would you judge a flat earther as being as intelligent as someone who believed the earth was round given no other information? You actually run into people that don't believe in doors?
No, that'd be absurd, he'd have to be a total fucking moron because doors, and their function, can quite clearly be observed. Although oddly enough I'm not sure I've ever run into a young earth creationist either. Hence my point.
That said it could just be that door deniers just don't get out much. It'd make sense. If I choose to believe in my heart that there are door deniers and I just can't see them will you agree to respect that and do me the favour of not pointing out any logical problems with that.
|
On January 13 2014 04:39 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 04:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:30 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:09 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:04 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:58 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:38 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
[quote]
You do realize you can cherry pick your beliefs, right? Someone who's religious can understand the science perfectly fine but choose not to roll with that in their personal lives. Sure, and someone could be an airline pilot professionally and choose to deny that gravity exists in their private life but at a certain point it's reasonable to expect someone to pick beliefs that conform with reality. While I accept that someone can choose to disbelieve in evolution, gravity, left (I heard it's just right in a mirror) or any number of other silly things people should be held accountable for their beliefs. If they choose to believe really dumb shit then they're probably just really dumb. You're waling a fine line between making on obvious point and being a bigot. Evolution is a scientific fact and people who don't understand that are either willfully ignorant or just stupid. Now I'm not saying all religious people are stupid, most have been smart enough to get around the obvious cognitive dissonance caused by being an intelligent individual trying to hold a belief they know is wrong and settled on God having a passive background role in the process. But those that have declined to take the out given to them by God guided evolution should merit a special type of contempt usually reserved for flat earthers and adults who still believe in Santa. Again, we don't put up with this shit regarding gravity. If someone just flatly insisted that things didn't fall when dropped on earth you'd seek a diagnosis for them. Hell, even if people argued that while things do fall it's only because an invisible, all powerful and all knowing being that loved them was everywhere at once dragging them about you'd still think that was pretty dumb. Evolution gets a special pass for this bullshit in America, and only in America, because the mass delusion has taken hold so deeply that people don't get called out on it enough. Other crazy shit is rightfully dismissed but doubting evolution, despite being no less crazy, has a critical mass that makes it acceptable and it won't change until people start challenging it. Tolerance, Kwark. If there's one thing Europeans should know by now, it's that tolerance has value. I'm not saying we should put them into camps and gas them, I'm saying it shouldn't be socially acceptable to believe something so stupid and that it already isn't in the case of every other clearly ridiculous belief. It's not that Americans don't feel the same way as Europeans regarding idiocy, you wouldn't employ someone who came to a job interview with his shoes on the wrong feet and then told you he believed in his heart that both feet are the same shape, it's that disbelief in evolution has somehow been grandfathered in as a special exemption to the social conventions against being a moron. In America it's generally considered bad form to hate on someone over religious / cultural differences. Frankly, intolerance of this sort seems extremely moronic to me and I can't imagine you having an easy time getting hired if you wear these views on your sleeve. Believing really dumb shit should be a thing you're ashamed of. It's not a religious or cultural difference, it's a choice. If I don't hire you because you've got an Arabic name then I'm discriminating against you because of your culture. If I don't hire you because you couldn't work out how to get into the building because you're choosing not to believe in doors today then I'm discriminating against your stupidity. They're not the same thing and shouldn't be treated the same way. A lot of Americans believe in their heart that Obama is disqualified from being President for being a Kenyan but it doesn't count for shit when they try to ignore his laws because Americans, like the rest of the world, don't let stupid beliefs overrule reality. It's only evolution that gets a free pass. If you can't understand the difference between someone dis-believing in evolution on religious grounds and someone not being able to figure out how a door works, you are, without a doubt, stupid. But let's take a real example, flat earthers. Would you judge a flat earther as being as intelligent as someone who believed the earth was round given no other information?
I don't know of any special religious or cultural belief that would make someone believe in a flat Earth. So, yes, I'd think less of that person's intelligence. However, it's not usually a good idea to draw conclusions about people based on one data point.
|
On January 13 2014 05:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 04:39 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:30 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:09 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:04 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:58 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:38 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Sure, and someone could be an airline pilot professionally and choose to deny that gravity exists in their private life but at a certain point it's reasonable to expect someone to pick beliefs that conform with reality. While I accept that someone can choose to disbelieve in evolution, gravity, left (I heard it's just right in a mirror) or any number of other silly things people should be held accountable for their beliefs. If they choose to believe really dumb shit then they're probably just really dumb. You're waling a fine line between making on obvious point and being a bigot. Evolution is a scientific fact and people who don't understand that are either willfully ignorant or just stupid. Now I'm not saying all religious people are stupid, most have been smart enough to get around the obvious cognitive dissonance caused by being an intelligent individual trying to hold a belief they know is wrong and settled on God having a passive background role in the process. But those that have declined to take the out given to them by God guided evolution should merit a special type of contempt usually reserved for flat earthers and adults who still believe in Santa. Again, we don't put up with this shit regarding gravity. If someone just flatly insisted that things didn't fall when dropped on earth you'd seek a diagnosis for them. Hell, even if people argued that while things do fall it's only because an invisible, all powerful and all knowing being that loved them was everywhere at once dragging them about you'd still think that was pretty dumb. Evolution gets a special pass for this bullshit in America, and only in America, because the mass delusion has taken hold so deeply that people don't get called out on it enough. Other crazy shit is rightfully dismissed but doubting evolution, despite being no less crazy, has a critical mass that makes it acceptable and it won't change until people start challenging it. Tolerance, Kwark. If there's one thing Europeans should know by now, it's that tolerance has value. I'm not saying we should put them into camps and gas them, I'm saying it shouldn't be socially acceptable to believe something so stupid and that it already isn't in the case of every other clearly ridiculous belief. It's not that Americans don't feel the same way as Europeans regarding idiocy, you wouldn't employ someone who came to a job interview with his shoes on the wrong feet and then told you he believed in his heart that both feet are the same shape, it's that disbelief in evolution has somehow been grandfathered in as a special exemption to the social conventions against being a moron. In America it's generally considered bad form to hate on someone over religious / cultural differences. Frankly, intolerance of this sort seems extremely moronic to me and I can't imagine you having an easy time getting hired if you wear these views on your sleeve. Believing really dumb shit should be a thing you're ashamed of. It's not a religious or cultural difference, it's a choice. If I don't hire you because you've got an Arabic name then I'm discriminating against you because of your culture. If I don't hire you because you couldn't work out how to get into the building because you're choosing not to believe in doors today then I'm discriminating against your stupidity. They're not the same thing and shouldn't be treated the same way. A lot of Americans believe in their heart that Obama is disqualified from being President for being a Kenyan but it doesn't count for shit when they try to ignore his laws because Americans, like the rest of the world, don't let stupid beliefs overrule reality. It's only evolution that gets a free pass. If you can't understand the difference between someone dis-believing in evolution on religious grounds and someone not being able to figure out how a door works, you are, without a doubt, stupid. But let's take a real example, flat earthers. Would you judge a flat earther as being as intelligent as someone who believed the earth was round given no other information? I don't know of any special religious or cultural belief that would make someone believe in a flat Earth. So, yes, I'd think less of that person's intelligence. However, it's not usually a good idea to draw conclusions about people based on one data point.
So, if a group of people believe in something stupid, it's reasonable to accept their beliefs if that group is big enough?
|
United States43989 Posts
On January 13 2014 05:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 04:39 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:30 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:09 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:04 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:58 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:38 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Sure, and someone could be an airline pilot professionally and choose to deny that gravity exists in their private life but at a certain point it's reasonable to expect someone to pick beliefs that conform with reality. While I accept that someone can choose to disbelieve in evolution, gravity, left (I heard it's just right in a mirror) or any number of other silly things people should be held accountable for their beliefs. If they choose to believe really dumb shit then they're probably just really dumb. You're waling a fine line between making on obvious point and being a bigot. Evolution is a scientific fact and people who don't understand that are either willfully ignorant or just stupid. Now I'm not saying all religious people are stupid, most have been smart enough to get around the obvious cognitive dissonance caused by being an intelligent individual trying to hold a belief they know is wrong and settled on God having a passive background role in the process. But those that have declined to take the out given to them by God guided evolution should merit a special type of contempt usually reserved for flat earthers and adults who still believe in Santa. Again, we don't put up with this shit regarding gravity. If someone just flatly insisted that things didn't fall when dropped on earth you'd seek a diagnosis for them. Hell, even if people argued that while things do fall it's only because an invisible, all powerful and all knowing being that loved them was everywhere at once dragging them about you'd still think that was pretty dumb. Evolution gets a special pass for this bullshit in America, and only in America, because the mass delusion has taken hold so deeply that people don't get called out on it enough. Other crazy shit is rightfully dismissed but doubting evolution, despite being no less crazy, has a critical mass that makes it acceptable and it won't change until people start challenging it. Tolerance, Kwark. If there's one thing Europeans should know by now, it's that tolerance has value. I'm not saying we should put them into camps and gas them, I'm saying it shouldn't be socially acceptable to believe something so stupid and that it already isn't in the case of every other clearly ridiculous belief. It's not that Americans don't feel the same way as Europeans regarding idiocy, you wouldn't employ someone who came to a job interview with his shoes on the wrong feet and then told you he believed in his heart that both feet are the same shape, it's that disbelief in evolution has somehow been grandfathered in as a special exemption to the social conventions against being a moron. In America it's generally considered bad form to hate on someone over religious / cultural differences. Frankly, intolerance of this sort seems extremely moronic to me and I can't imagine you having an easy time getting hired if you wear these views on your sleeve. Believing really dumb shit should be a thing you're ashamed of. It's not a religious or cultural difference, it's a choice. If I don't hire you because you've got an Arabic name then I'm discriminating against you because of your culture. If I don't hire you because you couldn't work out how to get into the building because you're choosing not to believe in doors today then I'm discriminating against your stupidity. They're not the same thing and shouldn't be treated the same way. A lot of Americans believe in their heart that Obama is disqualified from being President for being a Kenyan but it doesn't count for shit when they try to ignore his laws because Americans, like the rest of the world, don't let stupid beliefs overrule reality. It's only evolution that gets a free pass. If you can't understand the difference between someone dis-believing in evolution on religious grounds and someone not being able to figure out how a door works, you are, without a doubt, stupid. But let's take a real example, flat earthers. Would you judge a flat earther as being as intelligent as someone who believed the earth was round given no other information? I don't know of any special religious or cultural belief that would make someone believe in a flat Earth. So, yes, I'd think less of that person's intelligence. However, it's not usually a good idea to draw conclusions about people based on one data point.
Why do beliefs need a God in order to deserve tolerance and protection? Is there some kind of line here, like if I believe God told me the earth is flat I'm in the clear but if a titan told me then it's a bit questionable and if a pixie told me then I don't get any credit?
What about religions with multiple Gods, do their delusions get extra tolerance on account of having more religion backing it up?
Surely a system where beliefs are either respected and treated with tolerant acceptance or judged on their merits would be simpler than trying to quantify the degree to which the belief is religious or cultural.
Although this is all somewhat moot because you've already agreed with my core point that flat earthers are dumb.
|
On January 13 2014 05:15 FallenStar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 05:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:39 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:30 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:09 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:04 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:58 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
[quote]
You're waling a fine line between making on obvious point and being a bigot. Evolution is a scientific fact and people who don't understand that are either willfully ignorant or just stupid. Now I'm not saying all religious people are stupid, most have been smart enough to get around the obvious cognitive dissonance caused by being an intelligent individual trying to hold a belief they know is wrong and settled on God having a passive background role in the process. But those that have declined to take the out given to them by God guided evolution should merit a special type of contempt usually reserved for flat earthers and adults who still believe in Santa. Again, we don't put up with this shit regarding gravity. If someone just flatly insisted that things didn't fall when dropped on earth you'd seek a diagnosis for them. Hell, even if people argued that while things do fall it's only because an invisible, all powerful and all knowing being that loved them was everywhere at once dragging them about you'd still think that was pretty dumb. Evolution gets a special pass for this bullshit in America, and only in America, because the mass delusion has taken hold so deeply that people don't get called out on it enough. Other crazy shit is rightfully dismissed but doubting evolution, despite being no less crazy, has a critical mass that makes it acceptable and it won't change until people start challenging it. Tolerance, Kwark. If there's one thing Europeans should know by now, it's that tolerance has value. I'm not saying we should put them into camps and gas them, I'm saying it shouldn't be socially acceptable to believe something so stupid and that it already isn't in the case of every other clearly ridiculous belief. It's not that Americans don't feel the same way as Europeans regarding idiocy, you wouldn't employ someone who came to a job interview with his shoes on the wrong feet and then told you he believed in his heart that both feet are the same shape, it's that disbelief in evolution has somehow been grandfathered in as a special exemption to the social conventions against being a moron. In America it's generally considered bad form to hate on someone over religious / cultural differences. Frankly, intolerance of this sort seems extremely moronic to me and I can't imagine you having an easy time getting hired if you wear these views on your sleeve. Believing really dumb shit should be a thing you're ashamed of. It's not a religious or cultural difference, it's a choice. If I don't hire you because you've got an Arabic name then I'm discriminating against you because of your culture. If I don't hire you because you couldn't work out how to get into the building because you're choosing not to believe in doors today then I'm discriminating against your stupidity. They're not the same thing and shouldn't be treated the same way. A lot of Americans believe in their heart that Obama is disqualified from being President for being a Kenyan but it doesn't count for shit when they try to ignore his laws because Americans, like the rest of the world, don't let stupid beliefs overrule reality. It's only evolution that gets a free pass. If you can't understand the difference between someone dis-believing in evolution on religious grounds and someone not being able to figure out how a door works, you are, without a doubt, stupid. But let's take a real example, flat earthers. Would you judge a flat earther as being as intelligent as someone who believed the earth was round given no other information? I don't know of any special religious or cultural belief that would make someone believe in a flat Earth. So, yes, I'd think less of that person's intelligence. However, it's not usually a good idea to draw conclusions about people based on one data point. So, if a group of people believe in something stupid, it's reasonable to accept their beliefs if that group is big enough?
I think you are describing majority rule, or to a lesser extent, the essence of democracy :p
|
On January 13 2014 05:15 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 05:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:39 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:30 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:09 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:04 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:58 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
[quote]
You're waling a fine line between making on obvious point and being a bigot. Evolution is a scientific fact and people who don't understand that are either willfully ignorant or just stupid. Now I'm not saying all religious people are stupid, most have been smart enough to get around the obvious cognitive dissonance caused by being an intelligent individual trying to hold a belief they know is wrong and settled on God having a passive background role in the process. But those that have declined to take the out given to them by God guided evolution should merit a special type of contempt usually reserved for flat earthers and adults who still believe in Santa. Again, we don't put up with this shit regarding gravity. If someone just flatly insisted that things didn't fall when dropped on earth you'd seek a diagnosis for them. Hell, even if people argued that while things do fall it's only because an invisible, all powerful and all knowing being that loved them was everywhere at once dragging them about you'd still think that was pretty dumb. Evolution gets a special pass for this bullshit in America, and only in America, because the mass delusion has taken hold so deeply that people don't get called out on it enough. Other crazy shit is rightfully dismissed but doubting evolution, despite being no less crazy, has a critical mass that makes it acceptable and it won't change until people start challenging it. Tolerance, Kwark. If there's one thing Europeans should know by now, it's that tolerance has value. I'm not saying we should put them into camps and gas them, I'm saying it shouldn't be socially acceptable to believe something so stupid and that it already isn't in the case of every other clearly ridiculous belief. It's not that Americans don't feel the same way as Europeans regarding idiocy, you wouldn't employ someone who came to a job interview with his shoes on the wrong feet and then told you he believed in his heart that both feet are the same shape, it's that disbelief in evolution has somehow been grandfathered in as a special exemption to the social conventions against being a moron. In America it's generally considered bad form to hate on someone over religious / cultural differences. Frankly, intolerance of this sort seems extremely moronic to me and I can't imagine you having an easy time getting hired if you wear these views on your sleeve. Believing really dumb shit should be a thing you're ashamed of. It's not a religious or cultural difference, it's a choice. If I don't hire you because you've got an Arabic name then I'm discriminating against you because of your culture. If I don't hire you because you couldn't work out how to get into the building because you're choosing not to believe in doors today then I'm discriminating against your stupidity. They're not the same thing and shouldn't be treated the same way. A lot of Americans believe in their heart that Obama is disqualified from being President for being a Kenyan but it doesn't count for shit when they try to ignore his laws because Americans, like the rest of the world, don't let stupid beliefs overrule reality. It's only evolution that gets a free pass. If you can't understand the difference between someone dis-believing in evolution on religious grounds and someone not being able to figure out how a door works, you are, without a doubt, stupid. But let's take a real example, flat earthers. Would you judge a flat earther as being as intelligent as someone who believed the earth was round given no other information? I don't know of any special religious or cultural belief that would make someone believe in a flat Earth. So, yes, I'd think less of that person's intelligence. However, it's not usually a good idea to draw conclusions about people based on one data point. Why do beliefs need a God in order to deserve tolerance and protection? Is there some kind of line here, like if I believe God told me the earth is flat I'm in the clear but if a titan told me then it's a bit questionable and if a pixie told me then I don't get any credit? What about religions with multiple Gods, do their delusions get extra tolerance on account of having more religion backing it up? Surely a system where beliefs are either respected and treated with tolerant acceptance or judged on their merits would be simpler than trying to quantify the degree to which the belief is religious or cultural. Although this is all somewhat moot because you've already agreed with my core point that flat earthers are dumb.
I didn't say that God or religion was a prerequisite for tolerance.
And I'm not going to waste any more time talking to a closed minded bigot.
|
On January 13 2014 05:21 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 05:15 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 05:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:39 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:30 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:09 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:04 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:58 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Evolution is a scientific fact and people who don't understand that are either willfully ignorant or just stupid. Now I'm not saying all religious people are stupid, most have been smart enough to get around the obvious cognitive dissonance caused by being an intelligent individual trying to hold a belief they know is wrong and settled on God having a passive background role in the process. But those that have declined to take the out given to them by God guided evolution should merit a special type of contempt usually reserved for flat earthers and adults who still believe in Santa.
Again, we don't put up with this shit regarding gravity. If someone just flatly insisted that things didn't fall when dropped on earth you'd seek a diagnosis for them. Hell, even if people argued that while things do fall it's only because an invisible, all powerful and all knowing being that loved them was everywhere at once dragging them about you'd still think that was pretty dumb. Evolution gets a special pass for this bullshit in America, and only in America, because the mass delusion has taken hold so deeply that people don't get called out on it enough. Other crazy shit is rightfully dismissed but doubting evolution, despite being no less crazy, has a critical mass that makes it acceptable and it won't change until people start challenging it. Tolerance, Kwark. If there's one thing Europeans should know by now, it's that tolerance has value. I'm not saying we should put them into camps and gas them, I'm saying it shouldn't be socially acceptable to believe something so stupid and that it already isn't in the case of every other clearly ridiculous belief. It's not that Americans don't feel the same way as Europeans regarding idiocy, you wouldn't employ someone who came to a job interview with his shoes on the wrong feet and then told you he believed in his heart that both feet are the same shape, it's that disbelief in evolution has somehow been grandfathered in as a special exemption to the social conventions against being a moron. In America it's generally considered bad form to hate on someone over religious / cultural differences. Frankly, intolerance of this sort seems extremely moronic to me and I can't imagine you having an easy time getting hired if you wear these views on your sleeve. Believing really dumb shit should be a thing you're ashamed of. It's not a religious or cultural difference, it's a choice. If I don't hire you because you've got an Arabic name then I'm discriminating against you because of your culture. If I don't hire you because you couldn't work out how to get into the building because you're choosing not to believe in doors today then I'm discriminating against your stupidity. They're not the same thing and shouldn't be treated the same way. A lot of Americans believe in their heart that Obama is disqualified from being President for being a Kenyan but it doesn't count for shit when they try to ignore his laws because Americans, like the rest of the world, don't let stupid beliefs overrule reality. It's only evolution that gets a free pass. If you can't understand the difference between someone dis-believing in evolution on religious grounds and someone not being able to figure out how a door works, you are, without a doubt, stupid. But let's take a real example, flat earthers. Would you judge a flat earther as being as intelligent as someone who believed the earth was round given no other information? I don't know of any special religious or cultural belief that would make someone believe in a flat Earth. So, yes, I'd think less of that person's intelligence. However, it's not usually a good idea to draw conclusions about people based on one data point. Why do beliefs need a God in order to deserve tolerance and protection? Is there some kind of line here, like if I believe God told me the earth is flat I'm in the clear but if a titan told me then it's a bit questionable and if a pixie told me then I don't get any credit? What about religions with multiple Gods, do their delusions get extra tolerance on account of having more religion backing it up? Surely a system where beliefs are either respected and treated with tolerant acceptance or judged on their merits would be simpler than trying to quantify the degree to which the belief is religious or cultural. Although this is all somewhat moot because you've already agreed with my core point that flat earthers are dumb. I didn't say that God or religion was a prerequisite for tolerance. And I'm not going to waste any more time talking to a closed minded bigot.
You're bigoted against door-deniers!
|
United States43989 Posts
On January 13 2014 05:21 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 05:15 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 05:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:39 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:30 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:09 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:04 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:58 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Evolution is a scientific fact and people who don't understand that are either willfully ignorant or just stupid. Now I'm not saying all religious people are stupid, most have been smart enough to get around the obvious cognitive dissonance caused by being an intelligent individual trying to hold a belief they know is wrong and settled on God having a passive background role in the process. But those that have declined to take the out given to them by God guided evolution should merit a special type of contempt usually reserved for flat earthers and adults who still believe in Santa.
Again, we don't put up with this shit regarding gravity. If someone just flatly insisted that things didn't fall when dropped on earth you'd seek a diagnosis for them. Hell, even if people argued that while things do fall it's only because an invisible, all powerful and all knowing being that loved them was everywhere at once dragging them about you'd still think that was pretty dumb. Evolution gets a special pass for this bullshit in America, and only in America, because the mass delusion has taken hold so deeply that people don't get called out on it enough. Other crazy shit is rightfully dismissed but doubting evolution, despite being no less crazy, has a critical mass that makes it acceptable and it won't change until people start challenging it. Tolerance, Kwark. If there's one thing Europeans should know by now, it's that tolerance has value. I'm not saying we should put them into camps and gas them, I'm saying it shouldn't be socially acceptable to believe something so stupid and that it already isn't in the case of every other clearly ridiculous belief. It's not that Americans don't feel the same way as Europeans regarding idiocy, you wouldn't employ someone who came to a job interview with his shoes on the wrong feet and then told you he believed in his heart that both feet are the same shape, it's that disbelief in evolution has somehow been grandfathered in as a special exemption to the social conventions against being a moron. In America it's generally considered bad form to hate on someone over religious / cultural differences. Frankly, intolerance of this sort seems extremely moronic to me and I can't imagine you having an easy time getting hired if you wear these views on your sleeve. Believing really dumb shit should be a thing you're ashamed of. It's not a religious or cultural difference, it's a choice. If I don't hire you because you've got an Arabic name then I'm discriminating against you because of your culture. If I don't hire you because you couldn't work out how to get into the building because you're choosing not to believe in doors today then I'm discriminating against your stupidity. They're not the same thing and shouldn't be treated the same way. A lot of Americans believe in their heart that Obama is disqualified from being President for being a Kenyan but it doesn't count for shit when they try to ignore his laws because Americans, like the rest of the world, don't let stupid beliefs overrule reality. It's only evolution that gets a free pass. If you can't understand the difference between someone dis-believing in evolution on religious grounds and someone not being able to figure out how a door works, you are, without a doubt, stupid. But let's take a real example, flat earthers. Would you judge a flat earther as being as intelligent as someone who believed the earth was round given no other information? I don't know of any special religious or cultural belief that would make someone believe in a flat Earth. So, yes, I'd think less of that person's intelligence. However, it's not usually a good idea to draw conclusions about people based on one data point. Why do beliefs need a God in order to deserve tolerance and protection? Is there some kind of line here, like if I believe God told me the earth is flat I'm in the clear but if a titan told me then it's a bit questionable and if a pixie told me then I don't get any credit? What about religions with multiple Gods, do their delusions get extra tolerance on account of having more religion backing it up? Surely a system where beliefs are either respected and treated with tolerant acceptance or judged on their merits would be simpler than trying to quantify the degree to which the belief is religious or cultural. Although this is all somewhat moot because you've already agreed with my core point that flat earthers are dumb. I didn't say that God or religion was a prerequisite for tolerance. And I'm not going to waste any more time talking to a closed minded bigot.
Your reply said that as they didn't qualify for some kind of religious or cultural excuse for delusion then you'd conclude they were dumb. Why religion or culture excuses it is a fair question and if you maintain that they do then you will need to establish a line.
Or just go refuse to talk about it. That too. It's a little childish but these are difficult questions.
|
On January 13 2014 04:43 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 04:04 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:58 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:38 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 12 2014 21:25 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 12 2014 16:08 IgnE wrote:Evolution still deeply unpopular among Americans. Dismissed by 4 in 10 as elitist malarkey. Politicians shift towards promoting Intelligent Design in public schools. Fascinating to think that the world's science powerhouse, that has brought us iPhones, space shuttles and sent men on the moon has only 15% of its population really believing in science, and 45% of its population holding on absolutely medieval beliefs. I wouldn't like being a 35th century's archeologist trying to understand that country in the XXth and XXIst century. It's going to be a giant mindfuck for future observers. You do realize you can cherry pick your beliefs, right? Someone who's religious can understand the science perfectly fine but choose not to roll with that in their personal lives. Sure, and someone could be an airline pilot professionally and choose to deny that gravity exists in their private life but at a certain point it's reasonable to expect someone to pick beliefs that conform with reality. While I accept that someone can choose to disbelieve in evolution, gravity, left (I heard it's just right in a mirror) or any number of other silly things people should be held accountable for their beliefs. If they choose to believe really dumb shit then they're probably just really dumb. You're waling a fine line between making on obvious point and being a bigot. Evolution is a scientific fact and people who don't understand that are either willfully ignorant or just stupid. Now I'm not saying all religious people are stupid, most have been smart enough to get around the obvious cognitive dissonance caused by being an intelligent individual trying to hold a belief they know is wrong and settled on God having a passive background role in the process. But those that have declined to take the out given to them by God guided evolution should merit a special type of contempt usually reserved for flat earthers and adults who still believe in Santa. Again, we don't put up with this shit regarding gravity. If someone just flatly insisted that things didn't fall when dropped on earth you'd seek a diagnosis for them. Hell, even if people argued that while things do fall it's only because an invisible, all powerful and all knowing being that loved them was everywhere at once dragging them about you'd still think that was pretty dumb. Evolution gets a special pass for this bullshit in America, and only in America, because the mass delusion has taken hold so deeply that people don't get called out on it enough. Other crazy shit is rightfully dismissed but doubting evolution, despite being no less crazy, has a critical mass that makes it acceptable and it won't change until people start challenging it. Tolerance, Kwark. If there's one thing Europeans should know by now, it's that tolerance has value. And you as American should know that political correctness is the scourge of our time
Tolerance isn't the same as PC 
On January 13 2014 05:15 FallenStar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 05:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:39 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:30 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:09 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:04 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:58 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
[quote]
You're waling a fine line between making on obvious point and being a bigot. Evolution is a scientific fact and people who don't understand that are either willfully ignorant or just stupid. Now I'm not saying all religious people are stupid, most have been smart enough to get around the obvious cognitive dissonance caused by being an intelligent individual trying to hold a belief they know is wrong and settled on God having a passive background role in the process. But those that have declined to take the out given to them by God guided evolution should merit a special type of contempt usually reserved for flat earthers and adults who still believe in Santa. Again, we don't put up with this shit regarding gravity. If someone just flatly insisted that things didn't fall when dropped on earth you'd seek a diagnosis for them. Hell, even if people argued that while things do fall it's only because an invisible, all powerful and all knowing being that loved them was everywhere at once dragging them about you'd still think that was pretty dumb. Evolution gets a special pass for this bullshit in America, and only in America, because the mass delusion has taken hold so deeply that people don't get called out on it enough. Other crazy shit is rightfully dismissed but doubting evolution, despite being no less crazy, has a critical mass that makes it acceptable and it won't change until people start challenging it. Tolerance, Kwark. If there's one thing Europeans should know by now, it's that tolerance has value. I'm not saying we should put them into camps and gas them, I'm saying it shouldn't be socially acceptable to believe something so stupid and that it already isn't in the case of every other clearly ridiculous belief. It's not that Americans don't feel the same way as Europeans regarding idiocy, you wouldn't employ someone who came to a job interview with his shoes on the wrong feet and then told you he believed in his heart that both feet are the same shape, it's that disbelief in evolution has somehow been grandfathered in as a special exemption to the social conventions against being a moron. In America it's generally considered bad form to hate on someone over religious / cultural differences. Frankly, intolerance of this sort seems extremely moronic to me and I can't imagine you having an easy time getting hired if you wear these views on your sleeve. Believing really dumb shit should be a thing you're ashamed of. It's not a religious or cultural difference, it's a choice. If I don't hire you because you've got an Arabic name then I'm discriminating against you because of your culture. If I don't hire you because you couldn't work out how to get into the building because you're choosing not to believe in doors today then I'm discriminating against your stupidity. They're not the same thing and shouldn't be treated the same way. A lot of Americans believe in their heart that Obama is disqualified from being President for being a Kenyan but it doesn't count for shit when they try to ignore his laws because Americans, like the rest of the world, don't let stupid beliefs overrule reality. It's only evolution that gets a free pass. If you can't understand the difference between someone dis-believing in evolution on religious grounds and someone not being able to figure out how a door works, you are, without a doubt, stupid. But let's take a real example, flat earthers. Would you judge a flat earther as being as intelligent as someone who believed the earth was round given no other information? I don't know of any special religious or cultural belief that would make someone believe in a flat Earth. So, yes, I'd think less of that person's intelligence. However, it's not usually a good idea to draw conclusions about people based on one data point. So, if a group of people believe in something stupid, it's reasonable to accept their beliefs if that group is big enough?
It depends. Are the stupid beliefs causing anyone harm? If not, let it go. I don't think we need more wars, hate crimes and mass exoduses over religion, ethnicity, etc.
|
United States43989 Posts
On January 13 2014 05:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 04:43 Doublemint wrote:On January 13 2014 04:04 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:58 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:38 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 12 2014 21:25 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 12 2014 16:08 IgnE wrote:Evolution still deeply unpopular among Americans. Dismissed by 4 in 10 as elitist malarkey. Politicians shift towards promoting Intelligent Design in public schools. Fascinating to think that the world's science powerhouse, that has brought us iPhones, space shuttles and sent men on the moon has only 15% of its population really believing in science, and 45% of its population holding on absolutely medieval beliefs. I wouldn't like being a 35th century's archeologist trying to understand that country in the XXth and XXIst century. It's going to be a giant mindfuck for future observers. You do realize you can cherry pick your beliefs, right? Someone who's religious can understand the science perfectly fine but choose not to roll with that in their personal lives. Sure, and someone could be an airline pilot professionally and choose to deny that gravity exists in their private life but at a certain point it's reasonable to expect someone to pick beliefs that conform with reality. While I accept that someone can choose to disbelieve in evolution, gravity, left (I heard it's just right in a mirror) or any number of other silly things people should be held accountable for their beliefs. If they choose to believe really dumb shit then they're probably just really dumb. You're waling a fine line between making on obvious point and being a bigot. Evolution is a scientific fact and people who don't understand that are either willfully ignorant or just stupid. Now I'm not saying all religious people are stupid, most have been smart enough to get around the obvious cognitive dissonance caused by being an intelligent individual trying to hold a belief they know is wrong and settled on God having a passive background role in the process. But those that have declined to take the out given to them by God guided evolution should merit a special type of contempt usually reserved for flat earthers and adults who still believe in Santa. Again, we don't put up with this shit regarding gravity. If someone just flatly insisted that things didn't fall when dropped on earth you'd seek a diagnosis for them. Hell, even if people argued that while things do fall it's only because an invisible, all powerful and all knowing being that loved them was everywhere at once dragging them about you'd still think that was pretty dumb. Evolution gets a special pass for this bullshit in America, and only in America, because the mass delusion has taken hold so deeply that people don't get called out on it enough. Other crazy shit is rightfully dismissed but doubting evolution, despite being no less crazy, has a critical mass that makes it acceptable and it won't change until people start challenging it. Tolerance, Kwark. If there's one thing Europeans should know by now, it's that tolerance has value. And you as American should know that political correctness is the scourge of our time Tolerance isn't the same as PC Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 05:15 FallenStar wrote:On January 13 2014 05:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:39 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:30 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:09 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:04 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:58 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
Evolution is a scientific fact and people who don't understand that are either willfully ignorant or just stupid. Now I'm not saying all religious people are stupid, most have been smart enough to get around the obvious cognitive dissonance caused by being an intelligent individual trying to hold a belief they know is wrong and settled on God having a passive background role in the process. But those that have declined to take the out given to them by God guided evolution should merit a special type of contempt usually reserved for flat earthers and adults who still believe in Santa.
Again, we don't put up with this shit regarding gravity. If someone just flatly insisted that things didn't fall when dropped on earth you'd seek a diagnosis for them. Hell, even if people argued that while things do fall it's only because an invisible, all powerful and all knowing being that loved them was everywhere at once dragging them about you'd still think that was pretty dumb. Evolution gets a special pass for this bullshit in America, and only in America, because the mass delusion has taken hold so deeply that people don't get called out on it enough. Other crazy shit is rightfully dismissed but doubting evolution, despite being no less crazy, has a critical mass that makes it acceptable and it won't change until people start challenging it. Tolerance, Kwark. If there's one thing Europeans should know by now, it's that tolerance has value. I'm not saying we should put them into camps and gas them, I'm saying it shouldn't be socially acceptable to believe something so stupid and that it already isn't in the case of every other clearly ridiculous belief. It's not that Americans don't feel the same way as Europeans regarding idiocy, you wouldn't employ someone who came to a job interview with his shoes on the wrong feet and then told you he believed in his heart that both feet are the same shape, it's that disbelief in evolution has somehow been grandfathered in as a special exemption to the social conventions against being a moron. In America it's generally considered bad form to hate on someone over religious / cultural differences. Frankly, intolerance of this sort seems extremely moronic to me and I can't imagine you having an easy time getting hired if you wear these views on your sleeve. Believing really dumb shit should be a thing you're ashamed of. It's not a religious or cultural difference, it's a choice. If I don't hire you because you've got an Arabic name then I'm discriminating against you because of your culture. If I don't hire you because you couldn't work out how to get into the building because you're choosing not to believe in doors today then I'm discriminating against your stupidity. They're not the same thing and shouldn't be treated the same way. A lot of Americans believe in their heart that Obama is disqualified from being President for being a Kenyan but it doesn't count for shit when they try to ignore his laws because Americans, like the rest of the world, don't let stupid beliefs overrule reality. It's only evolution that gets a free pass. If you can't understand the difference between someone dis-believing in evolution on religious grounds and someone not being able to figure out how a door works, you are, without a doubt, stupid. But let's take a real example, flat earthers. Would you judge a flat earther as being as intelligent as someone who believed the earth was round given no other information? I don't know of any special religious or cultural belief that would make someone believe in a flat Earth. So, yes, I'd think less of that person's intelligence. However, it's not usually a good idea to draw conclusions about people based on one data point. So, if a group of people believe in something stupid, it's reasonable to accept their beliefs if that group is big enough? It depends. Are the stupid beliefs causing anyone harm? If not, let it go. I don't think we need more wars, hate crimes and mass exoduses over religion, ethnicity, etc.
But you agreed flat earthers are dumb, even though they do no harm. Again, I'm not suggesting genocide, I'm suggesting challenging dumb beliefs.
|
Canada11519 Posts
Flat earthers are weird. Because the flat earth theory is an anachronistic understanding of what the medievals actually believed. The assumption is always that the older generations are dumb and we are so much smarter. But if the medievals thought the earth was round and even had an idea how big it was (due to Greek writings- they just didn't think you could necessarily sail around it), how much more dumb are the modern flat earthers?
|
On January 13 2014 05:29 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 05:21 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 05:15 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 05:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:39 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:30 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:09 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:04 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
[quote]
Tolerance, Kwark. If there's one thing Europeans should know by now, it's that tolerance has value. I'm not saying we should put them into camps and gas them, I'm saying it shouldn't be socially acceptable to believe something so stupid and that it already isn't in the case of every other clearly ridiculous belief. It's not that Americans don't feel the same way as Europeans regarding idiocy, you wouldn't employ someone who came to a job interview with his shoes on the wrong feet and then told you he believed in his heart that both feet are the same shape, it's that disbelief in evolution has somehow been grandfathered in as a special exemption to the social conventions against being a moron. In America it's generally considered bad form to hate on someone over religious / cultural differences. Frankly, intolerance of this sort seems extremely moronic to me and I can't imagine you having an easy time getting hired if you wear these views on your sleeve. Believing really dumb shit should be a thing you're ashamed of. It's not a religious or cultural difference, it's a choice. If I don't hire you because you've got an Arabic name then I'm discriminating against you because of your culture. If I don't hire you because you couldn't work out how to get into the building because you're choosing not to believe in doors today then I'm discriminating against your stupidity. They're not the same thing and shouldn't be treated the same way. A lot of Americans believe in their heart that Obama is disqualified from being President for being a Kenyan but it doesn't count for shit when they try to ignore his laws because Americans, like the rest of the world, don't let stupid beliefs overrule reality. It's only evolution that gets a free pass. If you can't understand the difference between someone dis-believing in evolution on religious grounds and someone not being able to figure out how a door works, you are, without a doubt, stupid. But let's take a real example, flat earthers. Would you judge a flat earther as being as intelligent as someone who believed the earth was round given no other information? I don't know of any special religious or cultural belief that would make someone believe in a flat Earth. So, yes, I'd think less of that person's intelligence. However, it's not usually a good idea to draw conclusions about people based on one data point. Why do beliefs need a God in order to deserve tolerance and protection? Is there some kind of line here, like if I believe God told me the earth is flat I'm in the clear but if a titan told me then it's a bit questionable and if a pixie told me then I don't get any credit? What about religions with multiple Gods, do their delusions get extra tolerance on account of having more religion backing it up? Surely a system where beliefs are either respected and treated with tolerant acceptance or judged on their merits would be simpler than trying to quantify the degree to which the belief is religious or cultural. Although this is all somewhat moot because you've already agreed with my core point that flat earthers are dumb. I didn't say that God or religion was a prerequisite for tolerance. And I'm not going to waste any more time talking to a closed minded bigot. Your reply said that as they didn't qualify for some kind of religious or cultural excuse for delusion then you'd conclude they were dumb. Why religion or culture excuses it is a fair question and if you maintain that they do then you will need to establish a line. Or just go refuse to talk about it. That too. It's a little childish but these are difficult questions.
I pointed out religion because we've been talking about belief in evolution... a topic that involves both science and religion.
Are you really too stupid to make that connection on your own?
|
On January 13 2014 05:33 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 05:30 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:43 Doublemint wrote:On January 13 2014 04:04 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:58 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:45 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 03:38 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 03:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 12 2014 21:25 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 12 2014 16:08 IgnE wrote:Evolution still deeply unpopular among Americans. Dismissed by 4 in 10 as elitist malarkey. Politicians shift towards promoting Intelligent Design in public schools. Fascinating to think that the world's science powerhouse, that has brought us iPhones, space shuttles and sent men on the moon has only 15% of its population really believing in science, and 45% of its population holding on absolutely medieval beliefs. I wouldn't like being a 35th century's archeologist trying to understand that country in the XXth and XXIst century. It's going to be a giant mindfuck for future observers. You do realize you can cherry pick your beliefs, right? Someone who's religious can understand the science perfectly fine but choose not to roll with that in their personal lives. Sure, and someone could be an airline pilot professionally and choose to deny that gravity exists in their private life but at a certain point it's reasonable to expect someone to pick beliefs that conform with reality. While I accept that someone can choose to disbelieve in evolution, gravity, left (I heard it's just right in a mirror) or any number of other silly things people should be held accountable for their beliefs. If they choose to believe really dumb shit then they're probably just really dumb. You're waling a fine line between making on obvious point and being a bigot. Evolution is a scientific fact and people who don't understand that are either willfully ignorant or just stupid. Now I'm not saying all religious people are stupid, most have been smart enough to get around the obvious cognitive dissonance caused by being an intelligent individual trying to hold a belief they know is wrong and settled on God having a passive background role in the process. But those that have declined to take the out given to them by God guided evolution should merit a special type of contempt usually reserved for flat earthers and adults who still believe in Santa. Again, we don't put up with this shit regarding gravity. If someone just flatly insisted that things didn't fall when dropped on earth you'd seek a diagnosis for them. Hell, even if people argued that while things do fall it's only because an invisible, all powerful and all knowing being that loved them was everywhere at once dragging them about you'd still think that was pretty dumb. Evolution gets a special pass for this bullshit in America, and only in America, because the mass delusion has taken hold so deeply that people don't get called out on it enough. Other crazy shit is rightfully dismissed but doubting evolution, despite being no less crazy, has a critical mass that makes it acceptable and it won't change until people start challenging it. Tolerance, Kwark. If there's one thing Europeans should know by now, it's that tolerance has value. And you as American should know that political correctness is the scourge of our time Tolerance isn't the same as PC On January 13 2014 05:15 FallenStar wrote:On January 13 2014 05:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:39 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:30 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:09 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:04 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
[quote]
Tolerance, Kwark. If there's one thing Europeans should know by now, it's that tolerance has value. I'm not saying we should put them into camps and gas them, I'm saying it shouldn't be socially acceptable to believe something so stupid and that it already isn't in the case of every other clearly ridiculous belief. It's not that Americans don't feel the same way as Europeans regarding idiocy, you wouldn't employ someone who came to a job interview with his shoes on the wrong feet and then told you he believed in his heart that both feet are the same shape, it's that disbelief in evolution has somehow been grandfathered in as a special exemption to the social conventions against being a moron. In America it's generally considered bad form to hate on someone over religious / cultural differences. Frankly, intolerance of this sort seems extremely moronic to me and I can't imagine you having an easy time getting hired if you wear these views on your sleeve. Believing really dumb shit should be a thing you're ashamed of. It's not a religious or cultural difference, it's a choice. If I don't hire you because you've got an Arabic name then I'm discriminating against you because of your culture. If I don't hire you because you couldn't work out how to get into the building because you're choosing not to believe in doors today then I'm discriminating against your stupidity. They're not the same thing and shouldn't be treated the same way. A lot of Americans believe in their heart that Obama is disqualified from being President for being a Kenyan but it doesn't count for shit when they try to ignore his laws because Americans, like the rest of the world, don't let stupid beliefs overrule reality. It's only evolution that gets a free pass. If you can't understand the difference between someone dis-believing in evolution on religious grounds and someone not being able to figure out how a door works, you are, without a doubt, stupid. But let's take a real example, flat earthers. Would you judge a flat earther as being as intelligent as someone who believed the earth was round given no other information? I don't know of any special religious or cultural belief that would make someone believe in a flat Earth. So, yes, I'd think less of that person's intelligence. However, it's not usually a good idea to draw conclusions about people based on one data point. So, if a group of people believe in something stupid, it's reasonable to accept their beliefs if that group is big enough? It depends. Are the stupid beliefs causing anyone harm? If not, let it go. I don't think we need more wars, hate crimes and mass exoduses over religion, ethnicity, etc. But you agreed flat earthers are dumb, even though they do no harm. Again, I'm not suggesting genocide, I'm suggesting challenging dumb beliefs.
I've never run into a flat Earther. Nor have I ever heard of hate crimes or wars or hostile work environments against flat Earthers.
|
United States43989 Posts
On January 13 2014 05:34 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 05:29 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 05:21 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 05:15 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 05:09 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:39 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:37 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:30 KwarK wrote:On January 13 2014 04:24 JonnyBNoHo wrote:On January 13 2014 04:09 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
I'm not saying we should put them into camps and gas them, I'm saying it shouldn't be socially acceptable to believe something so stupid and that it already isn't in the case of every other clearly ridiculous belief. It's not that Americans don't feel the same way as Europeans regarding idiocy, you wouldn't employ someone who came to a job interview with his shoes on the wrong feet and then told you he believed in his heart that both feet are the same shape, it's that disbelief in evolution has somehow been grandfathered in as a special exemption to the social conventions against being a moron. In America it's generally considered bad form to hate on someone over religious / cultural differences. Frankly, intolerance of this sort seems extremely moronic to me and I can't imagine you having an easy time getting hired if you wear these views on your sleeve. Believing really dumb shit should be a thing you're ashamed of. It's not a religious or cultural difference, it's a choice. If I don't hire you because you've got an Arabic name then I'm discriminating against you because of your culture. If I don't hire you because you couldn't work out how to get into the building because you're choosing not to believe in doors today then I'm discriminating against your stupidity. They're not the same thing and shouldn't be treated the same way. A lot of Americans believe in their heart that Obama is disqualified from being President for being a Kenyan but it doesn't count for shit when they try to ignore his laws because Americans, like the rest of the world, don't let stupid beliefs overrule reality. It's only evolution that gets a free pass. If you can't understand the difference between someone dis-believing in evolution on religious grounds and someone not being able to figure out how a door works, you are, without a doubt, stupid. But let's take a real example, flat earthers. Would you judge a flat earther as being as intelligent as someone who believed the earth was round given no other information? I don't know of any special religious or cultural belief that would make someone believe in a flat Earth. So, yes, I'd think less of that person's intelligence. However, it's not usually a good idea to draw conclusions about people based on one data point. Why do beliefs need a God in order to deserve tolerance and protection? Is there some kind of line here, like if I believe God told me the earth is flat I'm in the clear but if a titan told me then it's a bit questionable and if a pixie told me then I don't get any credit? What about religions with multiple Gods, do their delusions get extra tolerance on account of having more religion backing it up? Surely a system where beliefs are either respected and treated with tolerant acceptance or judged on their merits would be simpler than trying to quantify the degree to which the belief is religious or cultural. Although this is all somewhat moot because you've already agreed with my core point that flat earthers are dumb. I didn't say that God or religion was a prerequisite for tolerance. And I'm not going to waste any more time talking to a closed minded bigot. Your reply said that as they didn't qualify for some kind of religious or cultural excuse for delusion then you'd conclude they were dumb. Why religion or culture excuses it is a fair question and if you maintain that they do then you will need to establish a line. Or just go refuse to talk about it. That too. It's a little childish but these are difficult questions. I pointed out religion because we've been talking about belief in evolution... a topic that involves both science and religion. Are you really too stupid to make that connection on your own?
So if flat earthism was a scientific claim with a religious source then you'd accept it?
Just trying to work out exactly what you're arguing here.
|
Guys I think we're pushing Johnny B Noho to DEB levels 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
