EPThonestly this could be prime time tv material
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 7709
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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brian
United States9619 Posts
honestly this could be prime time tv material | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
I guess they will mostly talk about emails, no? | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On June 02 2017 02:00 LegalLord wrote: Trump announces Paris decision in two hours. Who's excited? Vibrational, rotational and translational degrees of freedom of air molecules, mostly | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44356 Posts
On June 02 2017 01:56 opisska wrote: But the advantages of universal healthcare (which is somehow absurdly called single-payer in US) are actually bigger in countries with larger income inequalities, because these are the countries where the commercial system fails the most. In a commercial setup, people will tend to pay according to how ill they are, whereas in universal systems, people pay according to how much they make. In heavily unequal societies, the costs are unaffordable for the poor, whereas this problem is largely eliminated in universal healthcare. If that's the case, then it sounds like a great idea  | ||
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Adreme
United States5574 Posts
On June 02 2017 01:49 GreenHorizons wrote: That's kind of what I mean. So it's not as if Vermont could get the kind of savings people in Vermont would see if the single payer was 300 million, instead of 600k, plus you need the government/courts to take your side when the pharmaceutical companies fight back. Like if you're buying insulin for 6k people you can get one deal, but if you're buying insulin for 6 million they can cut you a better deal. Yes but for example I am from Maryland and Maryland could go into it just fine with the population we have. You do need several million people but the difference between 10 million and 30 million is truly minimal from a savings perspective. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On June 02 2017 02:00 LegalLord wrote: Trump announces Paris decision in two hours. Who's excited? I'm ready to be mad. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On June 02 2017 02:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: If that's the case, then it sounds like a great idea To be fair, I don't think UHC can be put forward in the US starting tomorrow. The existing healthcare infrastructure is build according to the demands of the commercial funding system, in particular it is designed around everything but saving money, as exemplified by any comparison in costs. I can't be assed to find sources now, but I am pretty sure I have seen comparison for many standard procedures between the US and European countries and everything is more expensive in the US - a problem that simply can't be put to "US has high price levels", because it doesn't compared to many EU countries. This could be a big issue for an UHC system, because strict price regulation is what keeps such system alive. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On June 02 2017 01:41 GreenHorizons wrote: That's not how single payer works really. Luckily California is a large enough market where they could feasibly play that role. Just have to get past the trading paying premiums to insurers so their CEO's can buy yachts, for comparable but likely less in taxes (depending on income). People really like buying rich people yachts and jets and crap. In fairness it is a bit of "concentration of waste" (meaning instead of overpaying many workers a little, you overpay handful of workers a lot). This is literally how Canada got universal health care... One Province started it, another one followed, another after that, and then the Federal Government negotiated out a plan with all the Provinces to (mostly) standardize things across the country. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On June 02 2017 01:13 TheTenthDoc wrote: I may just not be tracking the situation but I don't see how the timeline will help. The sinister conspiracy is that the person who ordered the unmasking did so and then either leaked unmasked info themselves or purposefully had someone else leak it (after all, unmasking is in no way illegal). Regardless of whether that happened it's obvious that the timeline is "request for unmasking places -> names unmasked -> leaked to media." Are they looking for some smoking gun communication saying "please leak this?" Because I am very skeptical that will ever be found, but could be looked for forever amongst all the people that saw the information. If they found one, it wouldn't really matter when it fell on the timeline. It doesn't help that the loosest conspiracy (the unmasking was ordered with the intent to cause a future leak, but no concrete instruction was given) is literally impossible to prove as distinct from ordering the unmasking because it was important to know who the person was. Americans picked up in our foreign surveillance programs shouldn't have fears that our government is listening to their calls and might rattle about it to media. That's why who does the unmasking and how unmasked surveillance is handled matters. You humorously allege sinister conspiracies--all this has to be is lax standards and one miscreant in a department. I want Americans not to be spied on by their own government. Wide dissimination of unmasked intercepts, and a host of other possibilities that absolutely need investigation, says civil rights are in bad shape right now. I don't even need to mention or allege conspiracy with who happened to run the NSA/CIA/FBI for this case. Comprendes? | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On June 02 2017 02:00 LegalLord wrote: Trump announces Paris decision in two hours. Who's excited? I'm not optimistic. The fact that I'd be pleasantly surprised if he actually stuck with it is in and of itself very sad. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23238 Posts
On June 02 2017 02:05 Adreme wrote: Yes but for example I am from Maryland and Maryland could go into it just fine with the population we have. You do need several million people but the difference between 10 million and 30 million is truly minimal from a savings perspective. On any one thing yes, but saving a little bit more across every medication adds up pretty quick particularly when we're talking the difference between 3-13 and 300 million person purchasing pool Maryland is well shy of 10 million as are 4 out of 5 states. half have less than 5 million. Maryland would be a good candidate though since it's so densely populated though (helps save money on delivery of services). On June 02 2017 02:08 WolfintheSheep wrote: This is literally how Canada got universal health care... One Province started it, another one followed, another after that, and then the Federal Government negotiated out a plan with all the Provinces to (mostly) standardize things across the country. I do not deny you have an eminently more reasonable government and population and it could work like that in many situations. But many Americans aren't willing to take a straight exchange of covering everyone for roughly the same cost as leaving 5-10% uninsured. They need larger savings (or a parade of better politicians) to be motivated. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 02 2017 02:09 NewSunshine wrote: I'm not optimistic. The fact that I'd be pleasantly surprised if he actually stuck with it is in and of itself very sad. Apparently leaving the Paris agreement will also result some sanctions against Russia/Putin being softened too. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21689 Posts
On June 02 2017 02:08 Danglars wrote: Americans picked up in our foreign surveillance programs shouldn't have fears that our government is listening to their calls and might rattle about it to media. That's why who does the unmasking and how unmasked surveillance is handled matters. You humorously allege sinister conspiracies--all this has to be is lax standards and one miscreant in a department. I want Americans not to be spied on by their own government. Wide dissimination of unmasked intercepts, and a host of other possibilities that absolutely need investigation, says civil rights are in bad shape right now. I don't even need to mention or allege conspiracy with who happened to run the NSA/CIA/FBI for this case. Comprendes? Are you just ignoring that the article mentions there was evidence already and that was used as a basis for asking for more information? This isn't random agencies deciding to unmask Trump associates for fun. Its an investigation that has reason to believe something was afoul and asked for additional intelligence. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On June 02 2017 02:08 Danglars wrote: Americans picked up in our foreign surveillance programs shouldn't have fears that our government is listening to their calls and might rattle about it to media. That's why who does the unmasking and how unmasked surveillance is handled matters. You humorously allege sinister conspiracies--all this has to be is lax standards and one miscreant in a department. I want Americans not to be spied on by their own government. Wide dissimination of unmasked intercepts, and a host of other possibilities that absolutely need investigation, says civil rights are in bad shape right now. I don't even need to mention or allege conspiracy with who happened to run the NSA/CIA/FBI for this case. Comprendes? The odd things is that those Republican investigators apparently told Fox News straight up that they're looking to allege a connection between the unmasking and the leaks, after figuring out which unmasking occurred before which leaks. In other words they told Fox straight up that they're doing an investigation and already have a desired outcome. I can only assume it's Nunes and his amateur crew talking here. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
It's official: Megyn Kelly will interview Vladimir Putin one-on-one for the first episode of her Sunday night NBC series. Kelly herself made the announcement on NBC's Today Thursday morning, reporting from Russia. Kelly is moderating an economic forum in St. Petersburg on Friday, where Putin will be one of the panelists, and her team had hoped to land a one-on-one interview with the Russian leader. www.msn.com | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
EAST LANSING, Mich. (WLNS) – The city of East Lansing is now facing a lawsuit when it comes to the city’s farmers market. The suit was filed this morning after the city excluded Charlotte-area farmer Steve Tennes and his family from selling their crops at the farmer’s market because of the family’s religious beliefs. The dispute started in August last year when a person reached out to Steve Tennes on the Country Mill’s Farm Facebook page regarding their religious marital beliefs. Tennes responded honestly stating he and his family will not book same-sex couple weddings at their farm because it is against their religious views. Since then, the situation escalated and the city of East Lansing refused Tennes and his family a spot at the farmer’s market and now the Tennes family is taking legal action against East Lansing. “It is our faith that has made us a target of government discrimination,” Tennes stated. This afternoon, Country Mill Owner Steve Tennes, his attorney and a group of state lawmakers announced their stance on East Lansing’s decision to ban Tennes from the local farmer’s market based on his religious beliefs. Tennes says the exclusion is a violation of his first amendment rights. “The government shouldn’t treat some people worse than others simply because they don’t agree with their thoughts or their ideas,” said Tennes. However, East Lansing City Manager George Lahanas says the city has a non-discrimination ordinance in effect and regardless of your religious views, if you’re doing business in East Lansing…discriminating against same-sex couples is not allowed even if on your own private property. “If the same thing were held where they were excluding people because of their race or religion from purchasing products at their facility in another city then wanted to sell at our farmers market and say but we’re not discriminating here…that to us isn’t acceptable,” Lahanas stated. Tennes has sold his crops in East Lansing for the past seven years and now that the city is restricting him from that, Tennes says it not only causes a financial burden but more importantly he says it’s discrimination from the government and action needs to be taken. “It’s about our freedom…we have children who will have grandchildren we want them to have the same freedom to be able to not only grow and sell their produce to people of all backgrounds and beliefs but to do it in accordance with their faith,” Tennes stated. Lahanas says if Tennes were to allow same-sex couples to wed at his farm or simply not allow weddings at all…he and his family would be allowed back to the farmers market. http://wlns.com/2017/05/31/suit-filed-against-east-lansing-after-farmer-banned-from-farmers-market/ | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23238 Posts
On June 02 2017 02:14 opisska wrote: Slovenia has viable UHC with a little over 2 million people I'm not arguing it can't be done with less people. I'm arguing that you don't get the level of savings that makes it cheaper, cover everyone, and not noticeably worse without getting the savings you get from a national pool (also to fight the legal and PR battles it takes to prevent work arounds, resistant parties, and tertiary costs like education or access to/information on healthy food/habits). Between the political realities and the logistical challenges I think there are few states that could effectively be used as examples of how it could/should be national policy. And I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just saying that it's not enough for those left behind now. C.R.E.A.M ...dolla dolla bill yall | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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