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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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TheLordofAwesome
Korea (South)2656 Posts
On May 11 2017 04:13 biology]major wrote: ashamed for voting for this dude, not that it even matters but shoulda just stayed at home on election day. Same. I should've written in Mattis. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
There are some articles saying that Trump doesn’t like Mattis either. Which doesn’t surprise me since Mattis is the guy who would gladly get fired before compromising his core values. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On May 11 2017 04:12 Danglars wrote: I'm not aware of any polls that ask their respondents which candidate is the most boring. And would there even be a fair statistical measure of "best results?" I'm fairly confident that my best results absolutely are inverted from your best results. You possess no objective measures. There are indeed massive methodological issues in such a thing; but just because it's hard to find answers doesn't mean we shouldn't try. I'd probably mostly rely on people's own assessments; i.e. ask people before and after the election how boring each of the candidates is (alonjg with a bunch of other questions of course), and after ask about how satisfied they are with their candidate's work. see what characteristics seem to yield people being satisfied in the job performance. I'm sure there's a lot of literature in the political science and sociology field about how to measure such things. | ||
KwarK
United States44296 Posts
Not sure you can really pretend that you didn't see this coming before you voted. It's not like he hid who he was. He ran on being exactly the kind of person you're now saying you're ashamed to have voted for. He's doing exactly what he promised he would. To me this reeks of ![[image loading]](https://pics.onsizzle.com/adrian-bott-cavalorn-never-thought-leopards-would-eat-my-face-8342078.png) | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On May 11 2017 04:19 Nyxisto wrote: That's the only healthy reaction. The basic mechanism that fuels Trump's support among his base is the same mechanism behind conspiracy theories. Every counter-evidence (he is unpopular, he embarrasses the US internationally and domestically, he is scandal ridden etc..) are only taken as further evidence that there "must be something to him". If he makes everybody mad he obviously must be correct. Just like every counter-evidence to conspiracy theories is only taken as evidence that the opponents are desperate and trying to hide something. This is pretty problematic reasoning because you can't ever convince them. By definition literally everything will only drive them further. This happens in this thread all the time too. When xDaunt says that he didn't expect a "paragon of virtue" and that liberal anxiety is only evidence of Trump's skill you've entered leader cult territory. In their zeal to stick it to liberals and the media, Trump's voters messed up bigtime. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
It's always nice to be able to look back at my posts from months past and be able to stand by them. | ||
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TheLordofAwesome
Korea (South)2656 Posts
On May 11 2017 04:44 KwarK wrote: Oddly enough research tends to suggest that lowering taxes at a corporate rate while raising flow-through taxes (like capital gains) generally works better. It's unpopular because instead of the corporation earning 50k, paying 20k in taxes and then handing out 30k in untaxed capital gains to you it results in the corporation earning 50k, paying 10k in taxes and then you paying 25% tax on your 40k dividend for 30k in your pocket. But it results in significantly less offshoring of profits and individuals are less likely to evade taxes than businesses. Honestly though the main priority is funding the fucking IRS. It's criminally underfunded and that allows big entities to systematically avoid meeting their tax obligations because the IRS isn't capable of making them pay. And those tax obligations just get passed down to the people on the street who the IRS can definitely collect from. The run down trucks I see with bumper stickers on them saying "DEFUND THE IRS" are just about the stupidest thing imaginable, these people seem to genuinely believe that it's them who will be beating the underfunded IRS. The less funding the IRS gets the more the tax burden shifts from people with the wealth and incentive to dodge taxes to the people who can't defend themselves. Right now for every additional dollar we give the IRS they come back with $17 in unpaid taxes that they collected with that dollar. At which point you tell them to keep those $17 and they come back with $289. Rinse and repeat. We should fund the IRS until each additional dollar in enforcement results in less than a dollar in unpaid taxes collected. This is a great post. I know so many honest, hardworking people who complain about having to fund the IRS because they have to pay a lot in taxes. What they don't seem to realize is that funding the IRS only helps them, because that allows the IRS to collect the proper amount of tax from greedy jerks who don't want to play by the rules. And when the IRS can't enforce tax laws, taxes are going to go up to pay the bills, which only hurts these people even more while the crooks get away with tax evasion. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On May 11 2017 04:23 Danglars wrote: The Senate Intelligence Committee and House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence apparently aren't conducting real investigations in Congress. I wonder how many more are needed until you're happy. Surely we should be surpassing Benghazi, an issue about which some people in the administration lied as to what they knew and said. | ||
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TheLordofAwesome
Korea (South)2656 Posts
On May 11 2017 04:49 KwarK wrote: Not sure you can really pretend that you didn't see this coming before you voted. It's not like he hid who he was. He ran on being exactly the kind of person you're now saying you're ashamed to have voted for. He's doing exactly what he promised he would. To me this reeks of What a great way to make everyone dig in their heels and refuse to budge one inch. When you get shit on like this for changing your mind , how many more people are going to do the same? Congratulations on hurting your own cause. Also, I don't recall DT running on the "let's hand our government over to Russian spies" platform. I did not vote for that, | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On May 11 2017 04:54 TheLordofAwesome wrote: What a great way to make everyone dig in their heels and refuse to budge one inch. When you get shit on like this for changing your mind , how many more people are going to do the same? Congratulations on hurting your own cause. Also, I don't recall DT running on the "let's hand our government over to Russian spies" platform. I did not vote for that, That's a rather hypocritical excuse, don't you think? What "platform they run on" can't be the only way to evaluate your candidates, unless you magically teleport into a world when everyone is honest and perfect. Trump wasn't even secretive about how big of an idiot he is during the campaign, as evidence by the fact that he was willing to open his mouth in public. You can't ask to not be held accountable for not expecting him to actually act idiotically. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On May 11 2017 04:54 TheLordofAwesome wrote: What a great way to make everyone dig in their heels and refuse to budge one inch. When you get shit on like this for changing your mind , how many more people are going to do the same? Congratulations on hurting your own cause. Also, I don't recall DT running on the "let's hand our government over to Russian spies" platform. I did not vote for that, Yeah I agree, for as much as you want to talk shit to people who you feel screwed you over by the way they voted... this is not the way to do things; it's just going to make your side look elitist. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On May 11 2017 04:54 TheLordofAwesome wrote: What a great way to make everyone dig in their heels and refuse to budge one inch. When you get shit on like this for changing your mind , how many more people are going to do the same? Congratulations on hurting your own cause. Also, I don't recall DT running on the "let's hand our government over to Russian spies" platform. I did not vote for that, that DT had major issues with possible russian interference was well shown and proven before the election already. so if you voted for him, it was known that there were probably some russian spies/agents/associates somewhere within his staff. It's a tricky issue; noone likes being given an "I told you so", yet for the people who did give warnings many times before, it's frustrating that people screwed up despite being given ample warning, and then come back all shocked and surprised. it's good people recognize they made mistakes; but it'd be nicer if they admitted they should've known better in the first place and listened more carefully. also, kwark tends to be a jerk. | ||
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biology]major
United States2253 Posts
On May 11 2017 04:49 KwarK wrote: Not sure you can really pretend that you didn't see this coming before you voted. It's not like he hid who he was. He ran on being exactly the kind of person you're now saying you're ashamed to have voted for. He's doing exactly what he promised he would. To me this reeks of My honest expectation was a presidential pivot. Even a small correction. Instead he tweets out obama wiretap claims and fires comey... | ||
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KwarK
United States44296 Posts
On May 11 2017 04:54 TheLordofAwesome wrote: What a great way to make everyone dig in their heels and refuse to budge one inch. When you get shit on like this for changing your mind , how many more people are going to do the same? Congratulations on hurting your own cause. Also, I don't recall DT running on the "let's hand our government over to Russian spies" platform. I did not vote for that, If you want to dig your heels in and defend Trump because you're worried about what people will think if you don't, regardless of the facts, that's a choice you have to make for yourself. I can't make you defend Trump any more than I made you vote for him in the first place. So by all means refuse to budge an inch. Plenty of people say or do dumb things and then double down on them, even after they realize they were wrong, because they are afraid people will laugh at them. Making you own up to voting for a crook isn't my cause, you voted for a crook whether you own up to it or not and I'm not in the business of handing out participation awards to the people who reached the most obvious conclusion possible 6 months too late for it to matter. If you feel the need to vote for him again in 2020 because you're afraid that not doing it would be admitting that you made a mistake then that's up to you and your own conscience. But don't take too much pride in how honest and partisan and objective you are for realizing that he's a crook. It's no different to a flat earther asking for a cookie because he was willing to admit that horizons are a bit of a problem. And don't make converting you my job. I don't give a shit when you finally make it across the finish line, the race is already over. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On May 11 2017 04:54 TheLordofAwesome wrote: What a great way to make everyone dig in their heels and refuse to budge one inch. When you get shit on like this for changing your mind , how many more people are going to do the same? Congratulations on hurting your own cause. Also, I don't recall DT running on the "let's hand our government over to Russian spies" platform. I did not vote for that, Agreed, but it wasn’t like the warnings were not there. Many of the core criticisms of Trump have played out. Complete disregard for the rule of law, systems and offices that exist in government. A dislike for hard work. Completely uneducated on how international relations work and why we provide weapons to our allies. And most importantly, a complete distrust of professionals in a field that don’t tell him exactly what he wants to here. I agree with you that the political climate is toxic and people loves to rub in peoples mistakes. Of course you voted for what you felt was best for the country and yourself. But your vote was also a vote to take away my wife’s healthcare protections. That is happening right now in congress. A lot of people tried to changes people’s minds during the election and they didn’t care. Now its all real and no one is happy. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22597 Posts
On May 11 2017 05:00 biology]major wrote: My honest expectation was a presidential pivot. Even a small correction. Instead he tweets out obama wiretap claims and fires comey... If that pivot was going to come (and plenty of people expected it) it would have happened after he secured the nomination and when the general race started. By the time election day arrived it was pretty clear what you were getting. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On May 11 2017 05:00 biology]major wrote: My honest expectation was a presidential pivot. Even a small correction. Instead he tweets out obama wiretap claims and fires comey... why would you have expected a presidential pivot? I thought it might happen for awhile, but by the main debates it was pretty clear that he wasn't going to be doing pivots. If someone is going to pivot, they'd start doing it after winning the primary, that they don't is a good indication. also numerous indications that he was who he was and that it wasn't going to change, for good or ill. and pretty clear he doens't play politics by the same system, so expecting a typical politican thing of him like a pivot shouldn't be done. | ||
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biology]major
United States2253 Posts
On May 11 2017 05:06 zlefin wrote: why would you have expected a presidential pivot? I thought it might happen for awhile, but by the main debates it was pretty clear that he wasn't going to be doing pivots. If someone is going to pivot, they'd start doing it after winning the primary, that they don't is a good indication. also numerous indications that he was who he was and that it wasn't going to change, for good or ill. and pretty clear he doens't play politics by the same system, so expecting a typical politican thing of him like a pivot shouldn't be done. Stepping in the oval office, looking at the history and portraits of previous presidents, being responsible for the lives of others in combat. Talking to the family members of fallen soldiers. All of these should humble a person to the ground. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On May 11 2017 05:07 biology]major wrote: Stepping in the oval office, looking at the history and portraits of previous presidents, being responsible for the lives of others in combat. Talking to the family members of fallen soldiers. All of these should humble a person to the ground. You're right, they should, but humility is not a word in Trump's lexicon. He probably feels it was all a right of passage. I had hoped for the same thing, but I abandoned that hope after he got personally butthurt over the size of his inauguration crowd. Humility is a foreign concept when you have the emotional maturity of a 10 year old. | ||
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Aldehyde
Sweden939 Posts
On May 11 2017 05:07 biology]major wrote: Stepping in the oval office, looking at the history and portraits of previous presidents, being responsible for the lives of others in combat. Talking to the family members of fallen soldiers. All of these should humble a person to the ground. What made you think Trump was capable of being humble? He's the best at everything, knows everything better than everyone else, least racist person in the whole entire world. He's magnificent. He's big league. | ||
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