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On May 11 2017 03:21 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2017 03:18 NewSunshine wrote:On May 11 2017 03:11 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 02:10 xDaunt wrote:On May 11 2017 02:08 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 01:27 ZeromuS wrote:On May 11 2017 01:24 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 01:14 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On May 11 2017 01:06 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 00:55 ZeromuS wrote:
hmmmmmm
The leaks here are pretty reassuring that any future coverup of the FBI's investigation of Trump's campaign aides will be immediately outed. Not my preferred reassurance but whatever. The investigation will continue apace and we'll find out if people like Flynn, Manafort, and Carter are guilty of more than we already know. But these constitutional crisis deranged lunatics on the left are a good reminder for Americans what the Trump administration is up against. CNN corroborated yesterday that there are grand jury subpoenas for associates of Michael Flynn. https://cnn.com/cnn/2017/05/09/politics/grand-jury-fbi-russia/index.htmlThe man who first reported the existence of grand juries involving the FBI investigation into Trump/Russia is Claude Taylor, former White House staffer. He also named the EDVA district as the location of all those juries. Now MSM is confirming this. Mr. Taylor also reports now that there are 25 sealed indictments in EDVA. He also says that state AG Schneiderman will be bringing RICO charges as well against Donald Trump and the Trump Org, and there is no presidential pardon power for state level offenses. Your thoughts? You mean aside from "The investigation will continue apace and we'll find out if people like Flynn, Manafort, and Carter are guilty of more than we already know?" There will be no coverup. Comey was heading the career FBI investigators that will find out the truth. Trump made bad staffing decisions and some former Trump associates made bad decisions. Frankly, if any of this is traceable to Trump it probably would've already been leaked, but I'm waiting for the investigation's conclusion. If some other state AG brings racketeering charges against Trump himself and Trump's company, that would be a new development and I'll follow it as details come out. At this point the fact Trump and his friends are doing everything they can to derail the investigation or delay its findings and get in its way is whats going to end up bringing him down. thats what happened to Nixon. For him it was the coverup No, you're making unverified claims about what's happening right now. The investigation continues, or were you under the impression Comey was personally involved in impaneling grand juries and gathering evidence? Don't confuse your own frustration born out of irrational Trump hatred (or rational Trump hatred that's infected your consideration of current events) for actual proof of obstruction. You have no evidence and your suppositions are faulty. Good luck convincing those on the left who are foaming at the mouth to get rid of Trump to actually consider the facts. I won't be continuing the pointless endeavor forever. The best case scenario is the final FBI report sobers some people up and the 2018 elections sobers more people up. High anxiety for long periods of time isn't good for the health. I mean, assume the FBI investigation vindicates Trump, and his administration, of any egregious collusion with the Russians, what is this best case scenario? You still have a commander-in-chief who, at best, rashly decided out of frustration to fire the head of the FBI who was, at that very moment, conducting said investigation. This is where intent doesn't matter, because it just looks that bad. There's no good spin to 'he was investigating me, and I happened to fire him at that exact moment'. This is the worst possible timing to make a move that had been justified for months. It doesn't matter anyways, people like Danglars will just pick their target. A lot of people want to see a credible investigation and are willing to accept the results but that group will just be discounted in favor of painting everyone with the blood thirsty conspiracy people that already believe Trump is guilty.
A credible investigation is important, and it's equally important to be able to accept those results and move on accordingly, but the conduct of our administration right now is so suspicious it reeks, and even assuming they have clean hands it's a huge undermining of the public's trust. If you had nothing to hide, why is there such a spectacle regarding the investigation? And if this is how you act in a case where you're innocent, what's gonna happen when you're actually guilty?
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On May 11 2017 03:18 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2017 03:11 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 02:10 xDaunt wrote:On May 11 2017 02:08 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 01:27 ZeromuS wrote:On May 11 2017 01:24 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 01:14 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On May 11 2017 01:06 Danglars wrote:The leaks here are pretty reassuring that any future coverup of the FBI's investigation of Trump's campaign aides will be immediately outed. Not my preferred reassurance but whatever. The investigation will continue apace and we'll find out if people like Flynn, Manafort, and Carter are guilty of more than we already know. But these constitutional crisis deranged lunatics on the left are a good reminder for Americans what the Trump administration is up against. CNN corroborated yesterday that there are grand jury subpoenas for associates of Michael Flynn. https://cnn.com/cnn/2017/05/09/politics/grand-jury-fbi-russia/index.htmlThe man who first reported the existence of grand juries involving the FBI investigation into Trump/Russia is Claude Taylor, former White House staffer. He also named the EDVA district as the location of all those juries. Now MSM is confirming this. Mr. Taylor also reports now that there are 25 sealed indictments in EDVA. He also says that state AG Schneiderman will be bringing RICO charges as well against Donald Trump and the Trump Org, and there is no presidential pardon power for state level offenses. Your thoughts? You mean aside from "The investigation will continue apace and we'll find out if people like Flynn, Manafort, and Carter are guilty of more than we already know?" There will be no coverup. Comey was heading the career FBI investigators that will find out the truth. Trump made bad staffing decisions and some former Trump associates made bad decisions. Frankly, if any of this is traceable to Trump it probably would've already been leaked, but I'm waiting for the investigation's conclusion. If some other state AG brings racketeering charges against Trump himself and Trump's company, that would be a new development and I'll follow it as details come out. At this point the fact Trump and his friends are doing everything they can to derail the investigation or delay its findings and get in its way is whats going to end up bringing him down. thats what happened to Nixon. For him it was the coverup No, you're making unverified claims about what's happening right now. The investigation continues, or were you under the impression Comey was personally involved in impaneling grand juries and gathering evidence? Don't confuse your own frustration born out of irrational Trump hatred (or rational Trump hatred that's infected your consideration of current events) for actual proof of obstruction. You have no evidence and your suppositions are faulty. Good luck convincing those on the left who are foaming at the mouth to get rid of Trump to actually consider the facts. I won't be continuing the pointless endeavor forever. The best case scenario is the final FBI report sobers some people up and the 2018 elections sobers more people up. High anxiety for long periods of time isn't good for the health. I mean, assume the FBI investigation vindicates Trump, and his administration, of any egregious collusion with the Russians, what is this best case scenario? You still have a commander-in-chief who, at best, rashly decided out of frustration to fire the head of the FBI who was, at that very moment, conducting said investigation. This is where intent doesn't matter, because it just looks that bad. There's no good spin to 'he was investigating me, and I happened to fire him at that exact moment'. This is the worst possible timing to make a move that had been justified for months.
Sorry, again you're way off the mark. And what do you mean, at best he rashly decided? At best, the firing was a little overdue and absolutely necessary to manage the department. Have you read the letter? Don't feed me partisan nonsense and call it the best case scenario. No timing was going to look good, and no executive would let such a clear issue at the top of the organization linger forever. "Worst possible timing" my ass.
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On May 11 2017 03:21 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2017 03:18 NewSunshine wrote:On May 11 2017 03:11 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 02:10 xDaunt wrote:On May 11 2017 02:08 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 01:27 ZeromuS wrote:On May 11 2017 01:24 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 01:14 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On May 11 2017 01:06 Danglars wrote:The leaks here are pretty reassuring that any future coverup of the FBI's investigation of Trump's campaign aides will be immediately outed. Not my preferred reassurance but whatever. The investigation will continue apace and we'll find out if people like Flynn, Manafort, and Carter are guilty of more than we already know. But these constitutional crisis deranged lunatics on the left are a good reminder for Americans what the Trump administration is up against. CNN corroborated yesterday that there are grand jury subpoenas for associates of Michael Flynn. https://cnn.com/cnn/2017/05/09/politics/grand-jury-fbi-russia/index.htmlThe man who first reported the existence of grand juries involving the FBI investigation into Trump/Russia is Claude Taylor, former White House staffer. He also named the EDVA district as the location of all those juries. Now MSM is confirming this. Mr. Taylor also reports now that there are 25 sealed indictments in EDVA. He also says that state AG Schneiderman will be bringing RICO charges as well against Donald Trump and the Trump Org, and there is no presidential pardon power for state level offenses. Your thoughts? You mean aside from "The investigation will continue apace and we'll find out if people like Flynn, Manafort, and Carter are guilty of more than we already know?" There will be no coverup. Comey was heading the career FBI investigators that will find out the truth. Trump made bad staffing decisions and some former Trump associates made bad decisions. Frankly, if any of this is traceable to Trump it probably would've already been leaked, but I'm waiting for the investigation's conclusion. If some other state AG brings racketeering charges against Trump himself and Trump's company, that would be a new development and I'll follow it as details come out. At this point the fact Trump and his friends are doing everything they can to derail the investigation or delay its findings and get in its way is whats going to end up bringing him down. thats what happened to Nixon. For him it was the coverup No, you're making unverified claims about what's happening right now. The investigation continues, or were you under the impression Comey was personally involved in impaneling grand juries and gathering evidence? Don't confuse your own frustration born out of irrational Trump hatred (or rational Trump hatred that's infected your consideration of current events) for actual proof of obstruction. You have no evidence and your suppositions are faulty. Good luck convincing those on the left who are foaming at the mouth to get rid of Trump to actually consider the facts. I won't be continuing the pointless endeavor forever. The best case scenario is the final FBI report sobers some people up and the 2018 elections sobers more people up. High anxiety for long periods of time isn't good for the health. I mean, assume the FBI investigation vindicates Trump, and his administration, of any egregious collusion with the Russians, what is this best case scenario? You still have a commander-in-chief who, at best, rashly decided out of frustration to fire the head of the FBI who was, at that very moment, conducting said investigation. This is where intent doesn't matter, because it just looks that bad. There's no good spin to 'he was investigating me, and I happened to fire him at that exact moment'. This is the worst possible timing to make a move that had been justified for months. It doesn't matter anyways, people like Danglars will just pick their target. A lot of people want to see a credible investigation and are willing to accept the results but that group will just be discounted in favor of painting everyone with the blood thirsty conspiracy people that already believe Trump is guilty.
The ongoing theme is in those discussions is that left leaning voters need to sober/smarten up and learn to get with the right's viewpoints. That view is reinforced by a Democratic party that can't win elections, sadly.
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On May 11 2017 03:25 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2017 03:18 NewSunshine wrote:On May 11 2017 03:11 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 02:10 xDaunt wrote:On May 11 2017 02:08 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 01:27 ZeromuS wrote:On May 11 2017 01:24 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 01:14 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On May 11 2017 01:06 Danglars wrote:The leaks here are pretty reassuring that any future coverup of the FBI's investigation of Trump's campaign aides will be immediately outed. Not my preferred reassurance but whatever. The investigation will continue apace and we'll find out if people like Flynn, Manafort, and Carter are guilty of more than we already know. But these constitutional crisis deranged lunatics on the left are a good reminder for Americans what the Trump administration is up against. CNN corroborated yesterday that there are grand jury subpoenas for associates of Michael Flynn. https://cnn.com/cnn/2017/05/09/politics/grand-jury-fbi-russia/index.htmlThe man who first reported the existence of grand juries involving the FBI investigation into Trump/Russia is Claude Taylor, former White House staffer. He also named the EDVA district as the location of all those juries. Now MSM is confirming this. Mr. Taylor also reports now that there are 25 sealed indictments in EDVA. He also says that state AG Schneiderman will be bringing RICO charges as well against Donald Trump and the Trump Org, and there is no presidential pardon power for state level offenses. Your thoughts? You mean aside from "The investigation will continue apace and we'll find out if people like Flynn, Manafort, and Carter are guilty of more than we already know?" There will be no coverup. Comey was heading the career FBI investigators that will find out the truth. Trump made bad staffing decisions and some former Trump associates made bad decisions. Frankly, if any of this is traceable to Trump it probably would've already been leaked, but I'm waiting for the investigation's conclusion. If some other state AG brings racketeering charges against Trump himself and Trump's company, that would be a new development and I'll follow it as details come out. At this point the fact Trump and his friends are doing everything they can to derail the investigation or delay its findings and get in its way is whats going to end up bringing him down. thats what happened to Nixon. For him it was the coverup No, you're making unverified claims about what's happening right now. The investigation continues, or were you under the impression Comey was personally involved in impaneling grand juries and gathering evidence? Don't confuse your own frustration born out of irrational Trump hatred (or rational Trump hatred that's infected your consideration of current events) for actual proof of obstruction. You have no evidence and your suppositions are faulty. Good luck convincing those on the left who are foaming at the mouth to get rid of Trump to actually consider the facts. I won't be continuing the pointless endeavor forever. The best case scenario is the final FBI report sobers some people up and the 2018 elections sobers more people up. High anxiety for long periods of time isn't good for the health. I mean, assume the FBI investigation vindicates Trump, and his administration, of any egregious collusion with the Russians, what is this best case scenario? You still have a commander-in-chief who, at best, rashly decided out of frustration to fire the head of the FBI who was, at that very moment, conducting said investigation. This is where intent doesn't matter, because it just looks that bad. There's no good spin to 'he was investigating me, and I happened to fire him at that exact moment'. This is the worst possible timing to make a move that had been justified for months. Sorry, again you're way off the mark. And what do you mean, at best he rashly decided? At best, the firing was a little overdue and absolutely necessary to manage the department. Have you read the letter? Don't feed me partisan nonsense and call it the best case scenario. No timing was going to look good, and no executive would let such a clear issue at the top of the organization linger forever. "Worst possible timing" my ass.
The firing was overdue early this year, when people generally agreed and had been calling for his dismissal. Now that he had been making serious motions in this investigation, it's an entirely different beast, and yes, the timing is much worse. The fact that he had been calling for more investigative resources and was to testify on the matter changes the situation entirely. You say his dismissal was inevitable, but you ignore entirely what he was doing at that exact moment. Why not fire him before, when people wouldn't have batted an eye, but do it now, now that he's putting you under scrutiny?
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On May 11 2017 03:25 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2017 03:18 NewSunshine wrote:On May 11 2017 03:11 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 02:10 xDaunt wrote:On May 11 2017 02:08 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 01:27 ZeromuS wrote:On May 11 2017 01:24 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 01:14 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On May 11 2017 01:06 Danglars wrote:The leaks here are pretty reassuring that any future coverup of the FBI's investigation of Trump's campaign aides will be immediately outed. Not my preferred reassurance but whatever. The investigation will continue apace and we'll find out if people like Flynn, Manafort, and Carter are guilty of more than we already know. But these constitutional crisis deranged lunatics on the left are a good reminder for Americans what the Trump administration is up against. CNN corroborated yesterday that there are grand jury subpoenas for associates of Michael Flynn. https://cnn.com/cnn/2017/05/09/politics/grand-jury-fbi-russia/index.htmlThe man who first reported the existence of grand juries involving the FBI investigation into Trump/Russia is Claude Taylor, former White House staffer. He also named the EDVA district as the location of all those juries. Now MSM is confirming this. Mr. Taylor also reports now that there are 25 sealed indictments in EDVA. He also says that state AG Schneiderman will be bringing RICO charges as well against Donald Trump and the Trump Org, and there is no presidential pardon power for state level offenses. Your thoughts? You mean aside from "The investigation will continue apace and we'll find out if people like Flynn, Manafort, and Carter are guilty of more than we already know?" There will be no coverup. Comey was heading the career FBI investigators that will find out the truth. Trump made bad staffing decisions and some former Trump associates made bad decisions. Frankly, if any of this is traceable to Trump it probably would've already been leaked, but I'm waiting for the investigation's conclusion. If some other state AG brings racketeering charges against Trump himself and Trump's company, that would be a new development and I'll follow it as details come out. At this point the fact Trump and his friends are doing everything they can to derail the investigation or delay its findings and get in its way is whats going to end up bringing him down. thats what happened to Nixon. For him it was the coverup No, you're making unverified claims about what's happening right now. The investigation continues, or were you under the impression Comey was personally involved in impaneling grand juries and gathering evidence? Don't confuse your own frustration born out of irrational Trump hatred (or rational Trump hatred that's infected your consideration of current events) for actual proof of obstruction. You have no evidence and your suppositions are faulty. Good luck convincing those on the left who are foaming at the mouth to get rid of Trump to actually consider the facts. I won't be continuing the pointless endeavor forever. The best case scenario is the final FBI report sobers some people up and the 2018 elections sobers more people up. High anxiety for long periods of time isn't good for the health. I mean, assume the FBI investigation vindicates Trump, and his administration, of any egregious collusion with the Russians, what is this best case scenario? You still have a commander-in-chief who, at best, rashly decided out of frustration to fire the head of the FBI who was, at that very moment, conducting said investigation. This is where intent doesn't matter, because it just looks that bad. There's no good spin to 'he was investigating me, and I happened to fire him at that exact moment'. This is the worst possible timing to make a move that had been justified for months. Sorry, again you're way off the mark. And what do you mean, at best he rashly decided? At best, the firing was a little overdue and absolutely necessary to manage the department. Have you read the letter? Don't feed me partisan nonsense and call it the best case scenario. No timing was going to look good, and no executive would let such a clear issue at the top of the organization linger forever. "Worst possible timing" my ass.
Purposely ignoring reports that the letter is merely a pretext? You trust Trump that much?
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To me, the take home is this. The administration has completely failed (to the point of not even trying) to avoid the appearance of corruption, something normal administrations strive for. They've failed so badly at this that at this point if the FBI investigation - led by whoever Trump appoints - and the Congressional investigations -- led by republicans - come back with inconclusive proof, the government will be irreparably damaged in its ability to appear fair, free, and democratic. Even if Trump and company are totally innocent, the only way to get the stink off would be a full investigation, special prosecutor, the whole shebang. Otherwise this will forever look like a successful coverup.
Which, if this was a Russian operation to damage American democracy, would be the most spectacularly successful reverse cargo cult, possibly ever.
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On May 11 2017 03:11 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2017 02:10 xDaunt wrote:On May 11 2017 02:08 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 01:27 ZeromuS wrote:On May 11 2017 01:24 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 01:14 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On May 11 2017 01:06 Danglars wrote:The leaks here are pretty reassuring that any future coverup of the FBI's investigation of Trump's campaign aides will be immediately outed. Not my preferred reassurance but whatever. The investigation will continue apace and we'll find out if people like Flynn, Manafort, and Carter are guilty of more than we already know. But these constitutional crisis deranged lunatics on the left are a good reminder for Americans what the Trump administration is up against. CNN corroborated yesterday that there are grand jury subpoenas for associates of Michael Flynn. https://cnn.com/cnn/2017/05/09/politics/grand-jury-fbi-russia/index.htmlThe man who first reported the existence of grand juries involving the FBI investigation into Trump/Russia is Claude Taylor, former White House staffer. He also named the EDVA district as the location of all those juries. Now MSM is confirming this. Mr. Taylor also reports now that there are 25 sealed indictments in EDVA. He also says that state AG Schneiderman will be bringing RICO charges as well against Donald Trump and the Trump Org, and there is no presidential pardon power for state level offenses. Your thoughts? You mean aside from "The investigation will continue apace and we'll find out if people like Flynn, Manafort, and Carter are guilty of more than we already know?" There will be no coverup. Comey was heading the career FBI investigators that will find out the truth. Trump made bad staffing decisions and some former Trump associates made bad decisions. Frankly, if any of this is traceable to Trump it probably would've already been leaked, but I'm waiting for the investigation's conclusion. If some other state AG brings racketeering charges against Trump himself and Trump's company, that would be a new development and I'll follow it as details come out. At this point the fact Trump and his friends are doing everything they can to derail the investigation or delay its findings and get in its way is whats going to end up bringing him down. thats what happened to Nixon. For him it was the coverup No, you're making unverified claims about what's happening right now. The investigation continues, or were you under the impression Comey was personally involved in impaneling grand juries and gathering evidence? Don't confuse your own frustration born out of irrational Trump hatred (or rational Trump hatred that's infected your consideration of current events) for actual proof of obstruction. You have no evidence and your suppositions are faulty. Good luck convincing those on the left who are foaming at the mouth to get rid of Trump to actually consider the facts. I won't be continuing the pointless endeavor forever. The best case scenario is the final FBI report sobers some people up and the 2018 elections sobers more people up. High anxiety for long periods of time isn't good for the health.
There's a reason why I haven't been posting much around here recently (above and beyond the fact that I've been busy). And you're kidding yourself if you think that there's any chance that any final report released by the FBI or any other investigative body exonerating Trump will be enough to put this Russia nonsense to bed.
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On May 11 2017 03:41 ChristianS wrote:
To me, the take home is this. The administration has completely failed (to the point of not even trying) to avoid the appearance of corruption, something normal administrations strive for. They've failed so badly at this that at this point if the FBI investigation - led by whoever Trump appoints - and the Congressional investigations -- led by republicans - come back with inconclusive proof, the government will be irreparably damaged in its ability to appear fair, free, and democratic. Even if Trump and company are totally innocent, the only way to get the stink off would be a full investigation, special prosecutor, the whole shebang. Otherwise this will forever look like a successful coverup.
Which, if this was a Russian operation to damage American democracy, would be the most spectacularly successful reverse cargo cult, possibly ever.
Yeah I tend to agree with this. I've never fully been on board with the Red Scare since the election, but firing Comey now certainly undermines the ability for people to have confidence in any investigation results. Especially, as some people here seem to conveniently forget, this is the 3rd person investigating Trump or people close to him to be fired (Yates, Bharara, Comey).
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I must say Trump is excellent at rustling jimmies. Fire the FBI director that the CongressCritters previously wanted fired and they go nuts. Off the CongressCritters go on an irrelevant wild goose chase again, with the media in tow. Quite adorable.
User was warned for this post
Edited, I wanted to refer to a specific set of politicians and no one beyond them.Sorry.
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I always felt that the Russian investigation was going to find stupid people around Trump accepting money from Russia. Like Flynn, Manafort and Lewandowski are all beyond stupid enough to do it. I never had any hopes that it would link back to Trump like some Manchurian candidate blackmail plot. I still don't believe it will link to him. But he seems set on trying to make it go away and that isn't going to happen. And the delusion that the Democrats would support this firing shows just how little Trump understands.
On May 11 2017 03:49 HalcyonRain wrote:
I must say Trump is excellent at rustling jimmies. Fire the FBI director that the Rats previously wanted fired and they go nuts. Off the Rats go on an irrelevant wild goose chase again, with the media in tow. Quite adorable.
Nixon never fired the FBI director that was investigating him. Just saying.
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On May 11 2017 03:28 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2017 03:25 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 03:18 NewSunshine wrote:On May 11 2017 03:11 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 02:10 xDaunt wrote:On May 11 2017 02:08 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 01:27 ZeromuS wrote:On May 11 2017 01:24 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 01:14 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On May 11 2017 01:06 Danglars wrote:
[quote]
The leaks here are pretty reassuring that any future coverup of the FBI's investigation of Trump's campaign aides will be immediately outed. Not my preferred reassurance but whatever. The investigation will continue apace and we'll find out if people like Flynn, Manafort, and Carter are guilty of more than we already know. But these constitutional crisis deranged lunatics on the left are a good reminder for Americans what the Trump administration is up against. CNN corroborated yesterday that there are grand jury subpoenas for associates of Michael Flynn. https://cnn.com/cnn/2017/05/09/politics/grand-jury-fbi-russia/index.htmlThe man who first reported the existence of grand juries involving the FBI investigation into Trump/Russia is Claude Taylor, former White House staffer. He also named the EDVA district as the location of all those juries. Now MSM is confirming this. Mr. Taylor also reports now that there are 25 sealed indictments in EDVA. He also says that state AG Schneiderman will be bringing RICO charges as well against Donald Trump and the Trump Org, and there is no presidential pardon power for state level offenses. Your thoughts? You mean aside from "The investigation will continue apace and we'll find out if people like Flynn, Manafort, and Carter are guilty of more than we already know?" There will be no coverup. Comey was heading the career FBI investigators that will find out the truth. Trump made bad staffing decisions and some former Trump associates made bad decisions. Frankly, if any of this is traceable to Trump it probably would've already been leaked, but I'm waiting for the investigation's conclusion. If some other state AG brings racketeering charges against Trump himself and Trump's company, that would be a new development and I'll follow it as details come out. At this point the fact Trump and his friends are doing everything they can to derail the investigation or delay its findings and get in its way is whats going to end up bringing him down. thats what happened to Nixon. For him it was the coverup No, you're making unverified claims about what's happening right now. The investigation continues, or were you under the impression Comey was personally involved in impaneling grand juries and gathering evidence? Don't confuse your own frustration born out of irrational Trump hatred (or rational Trump hatred that's infected your consideration of current events) for actual proof of obstruction. You have no evidence and your suppositions are faulty. Good luck convincing those on the left who are foaming at the mouth to get rid of Trump to actually consider the facts. I won't be continuing the pointless endeavor forever. The best case scenario is the final FBI report sobers some people up and the 2018 elections sobers more people up. High anxiety for long periods of time isn't good for the health. I mean, assume the FBI investigation vindicates Trump, and his administration, of any egregious collusion with the Russians, what is this best case scenario? You still have a commander-in-chief who, at best, rashly decided out of frustration to fire the head of the FBI who was, at that very moment, conducting said investigation. This is where intent doesn't matter, because it just looks that bad. There's no good spin to 'he was investigating me, and I happened to fire him at that exact moment'. This is the worst possible timing to make a move that had been justified for months. Sorry, again you're way off the mark. And what do you mean, at best he rashly decided? At best, the firing was a little overdue and absolutely necessary to manage the department. Have you read the letter? Don't feed me partisan nonsense and call it the best case scenario. No timing was going to look good, and no executive would let such a clear issue at the top of the organization linger forever. "Worst possible timing" my ass. The firing was overdue early this year, when people generally agreed and had been calling for his dismissal. Now that he had been making serious motions in this investigation, it's an entirely different beast, and yes, the timing is much worse. The fact that he had been calling for more investigative resources and was to testify on the matter changes the situation entirely. You say his dismissal was inevitable, but you ignore entirely what he was doing at that exact moment. Why not fire him before, when people wouldn't have batted an eye, but do it now, now that he's putting you under scrutiny?
You're absolutely wrong. At this exact moment he was giving speeches in LA. Is this clearly a dereliction of duty on his part, because he should be near to his office in DC for all these big developments? I mean, he can fly out to the West Coast and leave others to continue doing their good jobs. Oh my God, what timing! This investigation has been going on since July. Don't give me this nonsense about "serious motions." He's routinely called on to testify, he was just up doing that last week! You're biasing the present for no good reason and plenty of bad ones. That's the problem with the leak campaign Comey was so powerless or unmotivated to stop: people like you consider yourself sufficiently informed to think now is the crucial period in a very long investigation with no end in sight. People would've made the exact same criticism before, and it would've had worse criticism if it was in the week following Trump's ascendancy (hell he still had Obama holdovers tarnishing the Justice Department). I note your dismissal of rank and file FBI agent's ability to do their jobs when their boss is gone and now replaced by acting FBI McCabe, former deputy director, (who will testify Thursday). And I'm not going to keep wasting my time on irrational arguments because your rationales will just keep getting worse.
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On May 11 2017 03:49 HalcyonRain wrote:
I must say Trump is excellent at rustling jimmies. Fire the FBI director that the Rats previously wanted fired and they go nuts. Off the Rats go on an irrelevant wild goose chase again, with the media in tow. Quite adorable.
Do you really prefer a president who rustles jimmies by doing stupid things and enriching himself and his company instead of someone who actually does his job to serve the people in a proper manner? Is the schadenfreude worth it?
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Remember - vote for the most boring candidate! boring candidates = best results. I wonder if that would actually hold, sometime I'd like to test it, at least statistically.
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On May 11 2017 03:44 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2017 03:11 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 02:10 xDaunt wrote:On May 11 2017 02:08 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 01:27 ZeromuS wrote:On May 11 2017 01:24 Danglars wrote:On May 11 2017 01:14 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On May 11 2017 01:06 Danglars wrote:The leaks here are pretty reassuring that any future coverup of the FBI's investigation of Trump's campaign aides will be immediately outed. Not my preferred reassurance but whatever. The investigation will continue apace and we'll find out if people like Flynn, Manafort, and Carter are guilty of more than we already know. But these constitutional crisis deranged lunatics on the left are a good reminder for Americans what the Trump administration is up against. CNN corroborated yesterday that there are grand jury subpoenas for associates of Michael Flynn. https://cnn.com/cnn/2017/05/09/politics/grand-jury-fbi-russia/index.htmlThe man who first reported the existence of grand juries involving the FBI investigation into Trump/Russia is Claude Taylor, former White House staffer. He also named the EDVA district as the location of all those juries. Now MSM is confirming this. Mr. Taylor also reports now that there are 25 sealed indictments in EDVA. He also says that state AG Schneiderman will be bringing RICO charges as well against Donald Trump and the Trump Org, and there is no presidential pardon power for state level offenses. Your thoughts? You mean aside from "The investigation will continue apace and we'll find out if people like Flynn, Manafort, and Carter are guilty of more than we already know?" There will be no coverup. Comey was heading the career FBI investigators that will find out the truth. Trump made bad staffing decisions and some former Trump associates made bad decisions. Frankly, if any of this is traceable to Trump it probably would've already been leaked, but I'm waiting for the investigation's conclusion. If some other state AG brings racketeering charges against Trump himself and Trump's company, that would be a new development and I'll follow it as details come out. At this point the fact Trump and his friends are doing everything they can to derail the investigation or delay its findings and get in its way is whats going to end up bringing him down. thats what happened to Nixon. For him it was the coverup No, you're making unverified claims about what's happening right now. The investigation continues, or were you under the impression Comey was personally involved in impaneling grand juries and gathering evidence? Don't confuse your own frustration born out of irrational Trump hatred (or rational Trump hatred that's infected your consideration of current events) for actual proof of obstruction. You have no evidence and your suppositions are faulty. Good luck convincing those on the left who are foaming at the mouth to get rid of Trump to actually consider the facts. I won't be continuing the pointless endeavor forever. The best case scenario is the final FBI report sobers some people up and the 2018 elections sobers more people up. High anxiety for long periods of time isn't good for the health. There's a reason why I haven't been posting much around here recently (above and beyond the fact that I've been busy). And you're kidding yourself if you think that there's any chance that any final report released by the FBI or any other investigative body exonerating Trump will be enough to put this Russia nonsense to bed.
I directed that comment more at the "foaming at the mouth" Situation Level 11: Russian edition response and high anxiety from TL posters and the DC press. I see that dying down a little in the future. The heightened rhetoric when it doesn't yield political results will die down. This is Trump so it'll probably get replaced by "If It's Trump It's Unprecedented" Issue #417. The Russia smoke will fade.
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On May 11 2017 04:00 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2017 03:49 HalcyonRain wrote:
I must say Trump is excellent at rustling jimmies. Fire the FBI director that the Rats previously wanted fired and they go nuts. Off the Rats go on an irrelevant wild goose chase again, with the media in tow. Quite adorable. Do you really prefer a president who rustles jimmies by doing stupid things instead of someone who actually does his job in a proper manner? Is the schadenfreude worth it?
Oh I don't know, political theater is always somewhat entertaining from time to time. But you're right, I'd much rather he get to more important matters such as tax reform.
Although this really didn't take much time beyond, "Comey, you're FIRED!".
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Can he get below 35%? Do we dare dream of him getting a 30% approval rating?
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On May 11 2017 04:04 Plansix wrote:Can he get below 35%? Do we dare dream of him getting a 30% approval rating?
Sure, you can probably get it below 30% right now, if you use the right poll.
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On May 11 2017 04:02 HalcyonRain wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2017 04:00 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On May 11 2017 03:49 HalcyonRain wrote:
I must say Trump is excellent at rustling jimmies. Fire the FBI director that the Rats previously wanted fired and they go nuts. Off the Rats go on an irrelevant wild goose chase again, with the media in tow. Quite adorable. Do you really prefer a president who rustles jimmies by doing stupid things instead of someone who actually does his job in a proper manner? Is the schadenfreude worth it? Oh I don't know, political theater is always somewhat entertaining from time to time. But you're right, I'd much rather he get to more important matters such as tax reform. Although this really didn't take much time beyond, "Comey, you're FIRED!".
Tax reform isn't happening. They can't even deal with the ACA repeal, which has to come before any attempts to reform the tax code. They need Democrats on board to pass tax reform and Trump's tax plan is not a pill they are willing to swallow.
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On May 11 2017 04:00 zlefin wrote:
Remember - vote for the most boring candidate! boring candidates = best results. I wonder if that would actually hold, sometime I'd like to test it, at least statistically.
I'm not aware of any polls that ask their respondents which candidate is the most boring. And would there even be a fair statistical measure of "best results?" I'm fairly confident that my best results absolutely are inverted from your best results. You possess no objective measures.
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EPT
