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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 28 2017 18:29 GMT
#148381
I’m going to escalated tensions with NK. But let me make sure we are not getting a raw deal with our allies that also oppose NK. You know, the over 60 year old alliance with SK.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11865 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-28 18:32:10
April 28 2017 18:31 GMT
#148382
On April 29 2017 03:24 Logo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2017 03:19 LegalLord wrote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump told Reuters on Thursday he will either renegotiate or terminate what he called a "horrible" free trade deal with South Korea and said Seoul should pay for a U.S. anti-missile system that he priced at $1 billion.

In an interview with Reuters, Trump called the five-year-old trade pact with South Korea "unacceptable" and said it would be targeted for renegotiation after his administration completes a revamp of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) with Canada and Mexico.

He blamed the U.S.-Korean trade deal, known as KORUS, on his 2016 Democratic presidential election opponent, Hillary Clinton, who as secretary of state promoted the final version of the trade pact before its approval by Congress in 2011.

"It is unacceptable, it is a horrible deal made by Hillary," the Republican Trump said. "It's a horrible deal, and we are going to renegotiate that deal or terminate it."

Asked when he would announce his intention to renegotiate the deal, Trump said: "Very soon. I’m announcing it now."

Trump's comments stunned South Korean financial markets, sending Seoul stocks <.KS11> and the won currency into reverse even as the country's economic outlook has started to brighten.

South Korea's foreign ministry said Seoul would continue to explain to the Trump administration the benefits of the free trade deal. Washington had not officially filed a request to Seoul to renegotiate the agreement, it said.

Source

The president is finally starting to make sure we aren't getting shortchanged for our considerable military aid abroad and our horribly one-sided trade deals. Hopefully the South Koreans won't talk him out of this one.


This makes the whole North Korea circumstances seem very odd and wondering if like the whole thing here has been a strong arm tactic where Trump's Admin first Saber Rattles with North Korea, then turns to South Korea and pushes on them to renegotiate for protection.

I don't have much of an opinion on the actual idea of renegotiating but the context & timing of doesn't seem like it will endear any good will long term.


The US did create South Korea from the start. It was going to (relatively) peacefully turn to communism as a combined North and South Korea before the US intervened with a war. Current leadership family in NK was created in that war by China. At least that is how I understand it.

Not really sure why I felt that was relevant but it is somewhat relevant that SK is a created client state of the US when considering the deals with them.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-28 18:35:37
April 28 2017 18:34 GMT
#148383
On April 29 2017 03:31 Yurie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2017 03:24 Logo wrote:
On April 29 2017 03:19 LegalLord wrote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump told Reuters on Thursday he will either renegotiate or terminate what he called a "horrible" free trade deal with South Korea and said Seoul should pay for a U.S. anti-missile system that he priced at $1 billion.

In an interview with Reuters, Trump called the five-year-old trade pact with South Korea "unacceptable" and said it would be targeted for renegotiation after his administration completes a revamp of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) with Canada and Mexico.

He blamed the U.S.-Korean trade deal, known as KORUS, on his 2016 Democratic presidential election opponent, Hillary Clinton, who as secretary of state promoted the final version of the trade pact before its approval by Congress in 2011.

"It is unacceptable, it is a horrible deal made by Hillary," the Republican Trump said. "It's a horrible deal, and we are going to renegotiate that deal or terminate it."

Asked when he would announce his intention to renegotiate the deal, Trump said: "Very soon. I’m announcing it now."

Trump's comments stunned South Korean financial markets, sending Seoul stocks <.KS11> and the won currency into reverse even as the country's economic outlook has started to brighten.

South Korea's foreign ministry said Seoul would continue to explain to the Trump administration the benefits of the free trade deal. Washington had not officially filed a request to Seoul to renegotiate the agreement, it said.

Source

The president is finally starting to make sure we aren't getting shortchanged for our considerable military aid abroad and our horribly one-sided trade deals. Hopefully the South Koreans won't talk him out of this one.


This makes the whole North Korea circumstances seem very odd and wondering if like the whole thing here has been a strong arm tactic where Trump's Admin first Saber Rattles with North Korea, then turns to South Korea and pushes on them to renegotiate for protection.

I don't have much of an opinion on the actual idea of renegotiating but the context & timing of doesn't seem like it will endear any good will long term.


The US did create South Korea from the start. It was going to (relatively) peacefully turn to communism as a combined North and South Korea before the US intervened with a war. Current leadership family in NK was created in that war by China. At least that is how I understand it.

Not really sure why I felt that was relevant but it is somewhat relevant that SK is a created client state of the US when considering the deals with them.

You mean the Soviet backed invasion by North Korea? I wouldn’t really call that peaceful. It wasn’t like Korea was an independent nation prior to WW2 either.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13968 Posts
April 28 2017 18:37 GMT
#148384
On April 29 2017 03:07 Velr wrote:
Fuck you. No, they didn't, people were against it but the us secret services made up shit so goverments kinda had to follow, some didn't and the us wasn't happy... apology tour... fuck you... it was an i'm sorry we messed up tour.

Oh and ISIS was the result of this shitshow..

well no on anything you said but okay.

France didn't send anyone and neither did germany (for other reasons but still). They never made shit up they just got bad intel and ignored good intel. ISIS is a result of the arab spring if anything and so was the syrian civil war.

Its not like your country or anyone could or would have stoped anything anyway.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 28 2017 18:58 GMT
#148385
A firm co-founded by Donald Trump’s original campaign manager Corey Lewandowski appears to have been pitching clients around the world by offering not only policy and political advice, but also face time with President Trump, Vice President Mike Pence and senior members of their administration, according to documents and interviews.

A document provided to an Eastern European politician by an international consulting firm that Lewandowski co-founded this year promises to arrange “meetings with well-established figures,” including Trump, Pence, “key members of the U.S. Administration” and outside Trump allies.

The previously unreported firm, Washington East West Political Strategies, was created by Lewandowski and fellow Trump campaign veteran Barry Bennett — as well as an Azerbaijani oil executive and an American political consultant who works extensively in Russia — to prospect for political business in Eastern Europe. And Lewandowski and Bennett have created different firms with other partners to prospect in the Middle East, Canada and Central America, Bennett said.

The Washington East West Political Strategies document boasts that its clients will benefit from its partners’ ability to “leverage” their “trusted relations with the U.S. Administration,” as well as European parliamentarians and leading Western journalists.

Lewandowski did not respond to requests for comment.

Bennett, in an interview, said that he hadn’t seen the Washington East West Political Strategies document. He acknowledged, though, that he and Lewandowski started the firm. And he explained it was one of several international recruitment vehicles that would allow business partners around the world to earn commissions by enlisting international clients for another firm that he co-founded with Lewandowski in the weeks after the election called Avenue Strategies.

But Bennett stressed that the firms have yet to sign any international clients, and predicted that most of the firm’s work domestically and internationally would be political or policy consulting — not lobbying or arranging meetings or calls with elected officials.

However, people who are familiar with Lewandowski’s pitch to potential clients say he has pledged that he would personally call Trump or his Cabinet members if necessary on behalf of prospective Avenue Strategies clients.

Yet Lewandowski has not formally registered as a lobbyist.

The lack of any such registration by Lewandowski to date — combined with his boasts about his Trump connections — irks competing lobbyists and ethics watchdogs. They say Lewandowski is flouting the spirit of the lobbying rules, and abusing his access to the Trump White House. Meanwhile, White House officials worry that Lewandowski’s efforts to market his access — which are brazen even by K Street’s unbashful standards — are an influence-peddling scandal waiting to happen for a president who pledged to end the dominance of lobbyists and special interests in Washington.

“Whether Corey Lewandowski is just engaging in business as usual or actually going further, it definitely has a pervading swampiness to it that has become the new normal in Trump’s Washington,” said Lisa Gilbert, vice president of legislative affairs for the government watchdog group Public Citizen.

The White House did not respond to requests for comment for this story.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42866 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-28 19:46:49
April 28 2017 19:02 GMT
#148386
On April 29 2017 03:37 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2017 03:07 Velr wrote:
Fuck you. No, they didn't, people were against it but the us secret services made up shit so goverments kinda had to follow, some didn't and the us wasn't happy... apology tour... fuck you... it was an i'm sorry we messed up tour.

Oh and ISIS was the result of this shitshow..

well no on anything you said but okay.

France didn't send anyone and neither did germany (for other reasons but still). They never made shit up they just got bad intel and ignored good intel. ISIS is a result of the arab spring if anything and so was the syrian civil war.

Its not like your country or anyone could or would have stoped anything anyway.

Oddly enough there was a full scale Parliamentary inquiry into the Iraq War in Britain that published a tome last year.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/06/iraq-inquiry-key-points-from-the-chilcot-report

We got a lifetime civil service member, gave him access to all the documents, had him interview all the people involved and let him get to work. Seriously damning stuff. Blair misled Parliament, denied relevant information to the Cabinet, exaggerated the evidence supporting the case for war and ignored the evidence to the contrary and pledged British support to Bush long before the case was made to the British people.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
April 28 2017 19:31 GMT
#148387
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18022 Posts
April 28 2017 20:27 GMT
#148388
This sounds a bit like the classic mobster scam.
First you throw some bricks through the window and rough up the owner. Then you come by the next day and tell the owner that it's a terrible thing and the neighbourhood is going to the dogs, but you and your goons can offer protection. For a price of course.

Except it's a version where you have a rabid dog that is locked in a cage, and you first poke him so he barks and snarls and then say that if the mark doesn't pay up you'll open the cage.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13968 Posts
April 28 2017 20:41 GMT
#148389
On April 29 2017 04:02 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2017 03:37 Sermokala wrote:
On April 29 2017 03:07 Velr wrote:
Fuck you. No, they didn't, people were against it but the us secret services made up shit so goverments kinda had to follow, some didn't and the us wasn't happy... apology tour... fuck you... it was an i'm sorry we messed up tour.

Oh and ISIS was the result of this shitshow..

well no on anything you said but okay.

France didn't send anyone and neither did germany (for other reasons but still). They never made shit up they just got bad intel and ignored good intel. ISIS is a result of the arab spring if anything and so was the syrian civil war.

Its not like your country or anyone could or would have stoped anything anyway.

Oddly enough there was a full scale Parliamentary inquiry into the Iraq War in Britain that published a tome last year.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/06/iraq-inquiry-key-points-from-the-chilcot-report

We got a lifetime civil service member, gave him access to all the documents, had him interview all the people involved and let him get to work. Seriously damning stuff. Blair misled Parliament, denied relevant information to the Cabinet, exaggerated the evidence supporting the case for war and ignored the evidence to the contrary and pledged British support to Bush long before the case was made to the British people.

man I wish we could have those investigations here in america about things.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
April 28 2017 20:42 GMT
#148390
How good/bad is the trade death with SK anyway? Since Trump says its bad its probably a safe bet that the deal is decent/good.
Never Knows Best.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
April 28 2017 20:48 GMT
#148391
On April 29 2017 05:41 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2017 04:02 KwarK wrote:
On April 29 2017 03:37 Sermokala wrote:
On April 29 2017 03:07 Velr wrote:
Fuck you. No, they didn't, people were against it but the us secret services made up shit so goverments kinda had to follow, some didn't and the us wasn't happy... apology tour... fuck you... it was an i'm sorry we messed up tour.

Oh and ISIS was the result of this shitshow..

well no on anything you said but okay.

France didn't send anyone and neither did germany (for other reasons but still). They never made shit up they just got bad intel and ignored good intel. ISIS is a result of the arab spring if anything and so was the syrian civil war.

Its not like your country or anyone could or would have stoped anything anyway.

Oddly enough there was a full scale Parliamentary inquiry into the Iraq War in Britain that published a tome last year.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/06/iraq-inquiry-key-points-from-the-chilcot-report

We got a lifetime civil service member, gave him access to all the documents, had him interview all the people involved and let him get to work. Seriously damning stuff. Blair misled Parliament, denied relevant information to the Cabinet, exaggerated the evidence supporting the case for war and ignored the evidence to the contrary and pledged British support to Bush long before the case was made to the British people.

man I wish we could have those investigations here in america about things.

we often do have such investigations. and they sometimes produce high quality reports with lots of good recommendations, which are then promptly ignored.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 28 2017 21:04 GMT
#148392
On April 29 2017 05:41 Sermokala wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2017 04:02 KwarK wrote:
On April 29 2017 03:37 Sermokala wrote:
On April 29 2017 03:07 Velr wrote:
Fuck you. No, they didn't, people were against it but the us secret services made up shit so goverments kinda had to follow, some didn't and the us wasn't happy... apology tour... fuck you... it was an i'm sorry we messed up tour.

Oh and ISIS was the result of this shitshow..

well no on anything you said but okay.

France didn't send anyone and neither did germany (for other reasons but still). They never made shit up they just got bad intel and ignored good intel. ISIS is a result of the arab spring if anything and so was the syrian civil war.

Its not like your country or anyone could or would have stoped anything anyway.

Oddly enough there was a full scale Parliamentary inquiry into the Iraq War in Britain that published a tome last year.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/06/iraq-inquiry-key-points-from-the-chilcot-report

We got a lifetime civil service member, gave him access to all the documents, had him interview all the people involved and let him get to work. Seriously damning stuff. Blair misled Parliament, denied relevant information to the Cabinet, exaggerated the evidence supporting the case for war and ignored the evidence to the contrary and pledged British support to Bush long before the case was made to the British people.

man I wish we could have those investigations here in america about things.

That would involve a congress that is willing to hold itself accountable. Sadly, the only time we had any hopes of that, the economy was imploding and the decided to reform health care. And then got voted out of office for doing those things.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
April 28 2017 21:21 GMT
#148393
Well, shit. North Korea apparently fired another ballistic missile.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
April 28 2017 21:36 GMT
#148394
On April 29 2017 06:21 xDaunt wrote:
Well, shit. North Korea apparently fired another ballistic missile.

link?
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21736 Posts
April 28 2017 21:38 GMT
#148395
On April 29 2017 06:36 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2017 06:21 xDaunt wrote:
Well, shit. North Korea apparently fired another ballistic missile.

link?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39750240
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-28 21:46:10
April 28 2017 21:40 GMT
#148396
There is absolutely 0 chance of us stopping nk from testing their missiles. I don't even think china can prevent it. It's cultural, just like how the Japanese would never surrender until they were nuked, Kim Jong un and his people would rather starve and die than to do anything seen as giving up or slowing down.

An armed and ready nk is going to be a reality whether we like it or not.
Question.?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-28 21:47:28
April 28 2017 21:46 GMT
#148397
On April 29 2017 06:40 biology]major wrote:
There is absolutely 0 chance of us stopping nk from testing their missiles. I don't even think china can prevent it. It's cultural, just like how the Japanese would never surrender until they were nuked, Kim Jong un and his people would rather starve and die than to do anything seen as giving up or slowing down.

An armed and ready nk is going to be a reality whether we like it or not.


there's no debating that what's on the table is which man child decides to attack first.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
April 28 2017 21:52 GMT
#148398
I suppose Trump believes that the best way to resolve the NK situation is to piss off all the nations in the region that have any influence over NK.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-28 21:56:55
April 28 2017 21:56 GMT
#148399
I think trump is actually doing a good job here, because rn China is probably shitting their pants. They have no idea when these two are gonna lose it and go at it. Trump is purposefully showing force, blatantly aggressive rhetoric so that China is forced to do something. Only problem is I don't think China can do shit. If you squeeze Kim Jong un he will lash out at South Korea even if it is from severe economic sanctions. That's what I feel about it anyways. Typing from phone
Question.?
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13968 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-28 22:05:40
April 28 2017 22:05 GMT
#148400
That sounds smart but the problem is is thats the same thing that people say about NAFTA and the wall from trump and as time goes on its increaseingly worrying that hes more serious about the wall then still having nafta.

I don't think china will tolerate a nuclear NK. Thats my hope the world doesn't end position and I'm sticking with it.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
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