EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 7294
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
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lastpuritan
United States540 Posts
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OuchyDathurts
United States4588 Posts
On April 07 2017 14:01 lastpuritan wrote: It's just you, guys. The administration fully believes/knows that chemical weapons were used. I think "knows" is a strong word in relation to this administration on any subject, this included. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
"And now our country has launched missles into Syria...at Damascus, specifically. I want to believe that the information we received regarding it being Assad's regime doing the chemical attack is accurate. I want to believe this is not a false flag operation by rebel forces and our ops teams to push the removal of Assad. I'm so conflicted on what to believe anymore. Everyone in power is the bad guy at this point. It makes no rational sense why Assad would chem bomb his own people when he is in the middle of a fight with ISIL. He is struggling against ISIL, why would he jeopardize his alliances and fragile cooperation with other countries by bombing innocents? And now our military is launching 50 Tomahawk missiles at a Syrian air base. I hope the intel they got was rock solid and completely provable, or we just went hip deep into a very ugly war." | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
This is why we usually sleep on these matters for a few days and let all the facts come together. But this is Trump and his inner circle acting on their own so instead we got some heavy-handed posturing followed by a quick and decisive missile strike. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15401 Posts
On April 07 2017 14:04 BigFan wrote: What I'm saying is that I find it extremely hard to believe that Assad would gas his own people. This comment I stumbled onto on facebook is the kind of response people should really have: "And now our country has launched missles into Syria...at Damascus, specifically. I want to believe that the information we received regarding it being Assad's regime doing the chemical attack is accurate. I want to believe this is not a false flag operation by rebel forces and our ops teams to push the removal of Assad. I'm so conflicted on what to believe anymore. Everyone in power is the bad guy at this point. It makes no rational sense why Assad would chem bomb his own people when he is in the middle of a fight with ISIL. He is struggling against ISIL, why would he jeopardize his alliances and fragile cooperation with other countries by bombing innocents? And now our military is launching 50 Tomahawk missiles at a Syrian air base. I hope the intel they got was rock solid and completely provable, or we just went hip deep into a very ugly war." I highly doubt this was purely innocent people. How many times have terrorists hid in hospitals etc? He wouldn't be the first middle eastern dictator to bomb his own people for the sake of long term stability. It makes more sense in the context that this was collateral damage instead of Assad just being like "lets fuckin kill some kids :D" | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15401 Posts
On April 07 2017 14:11 BigFan wrote: Yep, that's exactly my point so when you have people being 100% certain that the Assad regime did it, that the strike was a good idea etc... you have to wonder if these people actually consider the possibility of false information being passed around. I think a lot of people take news media at face value and don't critically think about what they are reading or the possibility of it being alterated/fabricated/ false etc... Are you saying you think its possible the attack didn't happen or that someone else did it? | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On April 07 2017 14:19 Mohdoo wrote: Are you saying you think its possible the attack didn't happen or that someone else did it? It definitely is possible, yes. The last time around the story changed quite a bit between when the chemical weapons story first surfaced and when some time passed. This time we didn't give any time. | ||
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plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On April 07 2017 14:19 Mohdoo wrote: Are you saying you think its possible the attack didn't happen or that someone else did it? I'm saying it could be either. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15401 Posts
On April 07 2017 14:22 LegalLord wrote: It definitely is possible, yes. The last time around the story changed quite a bit between when the chemical weapons story first surfaced and when some time passed. This time we didn't give any time. Which of the two things are you saying is possible? What would be the otherwise truth? US staged it? "Moderate rebels" did it? | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On April 07 2017 14:27 plasmidghost wrote: What's the possibility that this is a false flag? That seems to be what a lot of Trump's hardline supporters were saying before the airstrike The motives seem to be consistent with a false flag, even if that doesn't really mean all that much on its own. This is why you wait and investigate. Should have figured that out before starting what will probably go down not-so-smoothly. Russia accused the US of acting hastily just about right now. Haven't heard much from around the world but that seems to be a common sentiment. I don't think this is going to have the hoped-for results. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On April 07 2017 14:27 Mohdoo wrote: Which of the two things are you saying is possible? What would be the otherwise truth? US staged it? "Moderate rebels" did it? Any of those, and some other possibilities. Maybe it was an accidental detonation or some other party. Maybe the eyewitnesses shared some key misinformation. The "leading narrative" of "Assad gassed his own people for the evulz" is just incomplete as of present and it wasn't the right time to act yet. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On April 07 2017 14:32 LegalLord wrote: Any of those, and some other possibilities. Maybe it was an accidental detonation or some other party. Maybe the parties in question shared some key misinformation. The "leading narrative" of "Assad gassed his own people for the evulz" is just incomplete as of present and it wasn't the right time to act yet. I doubt accidental detonation. Chemical weapons don't just spontaneously teleport themselves into populated areas and go off. I will give you credit that while Trump's administration probably has a lot more intel than us, it is possible that it wasn't Assad who launched the attacks. | ||
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plasmidghost
Belgium16168 Posts
Will there be any retaliation for the soldier deaths, especially if it turns out to not have been Assad? | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Almost four months after her stunning defeat, Hillary Clinton on Thursday primarily blamed her loss to President Donald Trump on four factors that were beyond her control. The former Democratic presidential candidate cited Russian meddling in the election, FBI Director James Comey's involvement toward the end of the race, WikiLeaks theft of emails from her campaign chairman, and misogyny. Clinton's comments came during her first post-election interview at Tina Brown's eighth annual Women in the World Summit in New York City. She was questioned by Nicholas Kristof of The New York Times. She largely cited these factors for her defeat: - Russia. "A foreign power meddled with our election," she said, labeling it "an act of aggression." She called for an independent, bipartisan investigation into the Kremlin's involvement and said the probe should examine whether there was collusion with the Trump campaign. - Misogyny. "Certainly, misogyny played a role. That has to be admitted," she said. Clinton added that "some people — women included — had real problems" with the idea of a woman president. - Comey. Clinton cited as damaging to her campaign his unusual decision to release of a letter on October 28, less than two weeks before Election Day, that said he was looking at additional emails related to the FBI probe of the former secretary of state's use of a private server. - WikiLeaks. Weeks of disclosures of stolen emails from the personal account of then-Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta, were particularly harmful, Clinton said, adding that it "played a much bigger role than I think many people yet understand." She said the combination of Comey's actions and the WikiLeaks' revelations "had the determinative effect." About her own role, she said, "There were things I could have done better." While Clinton said there were "lots of contributing factors" to her failure to secure the nation's highest office, she called Russia's interference the "weaponization of information." "I didn't fully understand how impactful that was and so it created doubts in people," Clinton said. "But then the Comey letter coming as it did — just 10 days before the election — really raised questions in a lot of people." Source How, oh how, can someone be so blind to why she is so thoroughly unpopular? | ||
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OuchyDathurts
United States4588 Posts
On April 07 2017 15:16 LegalLord wrote: The spin machine is weaving a wave of BS to justify losing: Source How, oh how, can someone be so blind to why she is so thoroughly unpopular? Those 4 things were all certainly factors. However she's leaving out other major factors like her sucking, and people being sick of business as usual. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22742 Posts
On April 07 2017 15:23 OuchyDathurts wrote: Those 4 things were all certainly factors. However she's leaving out other major factors like her sucking, and people being sick of business as usual. "The buck stops...anywhere but here" Presidential as I've ever seen her. | ||
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