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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
lastpuritan
Profile Joined December 2014
United States540 Posts
April 07 2017 02:46 GMT
#145801
On April 07 2017 11:36 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2017 11:34 lastpuritan wrote:
Well, no matter we like it or not. He had courage to do it while Obama and whole world stood idly for years. Now Assad will think twice before targeting civilians, this little-something is what we couldn't achieve by previous administration for years and years. It's still a GOOD JOB.

more like a mixed bag. courage and stupidity can overlap a lot. to act without congressional approval/consent in waging war upon a country.
also, this isn't about targetting civilians, it's about the use of chemical weapons specifically (at least ostensibly).


But Trump said he was shocked by civilian deaths and changed his views on Assad because images of dead children hurt him deeply.

Not saying Assad won't be killing civilians in the future, but he'll probably reconsider his plan to terminate all the population opposes him.

-

Congress would approve it anyways, why lose time when you can strike fast and send a strong message.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 07 2017 02:47 GMT
#145802
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 07 2017 02:49 GMT
#145803
On April 07 2017 11:46 lastpuritan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2017 11:36 zlefin wrote:
On April 07 2017 11:34 lastpuritan wrote:
Well, no matter we like it or not. He had courage to do it while Obama and whole world stood idly for years. Now Assad will think twice before targeting civilians, this little-something is what we couldn't achieve by previous administration for years and years. It's still a GOOD JOB.

more like a mixed bag. courage and stupidity can overlap a lot. to act without congressional approval/consent in waging war upon a country.
also, this isn't about targetting civilians, it's about the use of chemical weapons specifically (at least ostensibly).


But Trump said he was shocked by civilian deaths and changed his views on Assad because images of dead children hurt him deeply.

Not saying Assad won't be killing civilians in the future, but he'll probably reconsider his plan to terminate all the population opposes him.

-

Congress would approve it anyways, why lose time when you can strike fast and send a strong message.

Or Trump lied and launched missiles to seem stronger than Obama, doesn't give a shit about kids and just wanted to look tough.

They didn't strike that fast. They warned Russia, Assad's ally, and the base was free of staff when it was hit. They literally called ahead before sending the missiles.

And if it was going to be approved anyways, not reason to deprive the American people of the public discussion.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-07 02:52:58
April 07 2017 02:52 GMT
#145804
On April 07 2017 11:46 lastpuritan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2017 11:36 zlefin wrote:
On April 07 2017 11:34 lastpuritan wrote:
Well, no matter we like it or not. He had courage to do it while Obama and whole world stood idly for years. Now Assad will think twice before targeting civilians, this little-something is what we couldn't achieve by previous administration for years and years. It's still a GOOD JOB.

more like a mixed bag. courage and stupidity can overlap a lot. to act without congressional approval/consent in waging war upon a country.
also, this isn't about targetting civilians, it's about the use of chemical weapons specifically (at least ostensibly).


But Trump said he was shocked by civilian deaths and changed his views on Assad because images of dead children hurt him deeply.

Not saying Assad won't be killing civilians in the future, but he'll probably reconsider his plan to terminate all the population opposes him.

-

Congress would approve it anyways, why lose time when you can strike fast and send a strong message.

why do you think congress would approve it? they didn't approve it last times chemical weapons were used to kill civilians.

also, that tens of thousands of children have suffered horrible deaths due to assad isn't new. this recent extra few hundred (not sure on the number) isn't that big a shift in what was before.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-07 02:53:17
April 07 2017 02:53 GMT
#145805
So what if Assad strikes back at the US special forces in Syria?
Neosteel Enthusiast
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 07 2017 02:54 GMT
#145806
Then it will be the end for Assad.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
April 07 2017 02:54 GMT
#145807
On April 07 2017 11:53 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
So what if Assad strikes back at the US special forces in Syria?

then US forces will blast whatever is attacking them.
aka, escalation to war is possible.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 07 2017 02:55 GMT
#145808
On April 07 2017 11:53 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
So what if Assad strikes back at the US special forces in Syria?

Then my friend, he will try to take us to war. With only the feckless clowns in congress to keep him in check.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15725 Posts
April 07 2017 02:55 GMT
#145809
Do we have anyone here who is skeptical that these chemical attacks actually happened?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23470 Posts
April 07 2017 02:59 GMT
#145810
On April 07 2017 11:55 Mohdoo wrote:
Do we have anyone here who is skeptical that these chemical attacks actually happened?


That Assad would do it, no. That this particular attack was Assad, I wouldn't be even slightly surprised to find out it wasn't either.

But I'm one of the crazies who thinks the thousands of architects and engineers that doubt the story on WTC-7 aren't crazy either.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
April 07 2017 03:01 GMT
#145811
On the job training for the future possibly:

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
lastpuritan
Profile Joined December 2014
United States540 Posts
April 07 2017 03:02 GMT
#145812
On April 07 2017 11:49 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2017 11:46 lastpuritan wrote:
On April 07 2017 11:36 zlefin wrote:
On April 07 2017 11:34 lastpuritan wrote:
Well, no matter we like it or not. He had courage to do it while Obama and whole world stood idly for years. Now Assad will think twice before targeting civilians, this little-something is what we couldn't achieve by previous administration for years and years. It's still a GOOD JOB.

more like a mixed bag. courage and stupidity can overlap a lot. to act without congressional approval/consent in waging war upon a country.
also, this isn't about targetting civilians, it's about the use of chemical weapons specifically (at least ostensibly).


But Trump said he was shocked by civilian deaths and changed his views on Assad because images of dead children hurt him deeply.

Not saying Assad won't be killing civilians in the future, but he'll probably reconsider his plan to terminate all the population opposes him.

-

Congress would approve it anyways, why lose time when you can strike fast and send a strong message.

Or Trump lied and launched missiles to seem stronger than Obama, doesn't give a shit about kids and just wanted to look tough.

They didn't strike that fast. They warned Russia, Assad's ally, and the base was free of staff when it was hit. They literally called ahead before sending the missiles.

And if it was going to be approved anyways, not reason to deprive the American people of the public discussion.


Why would you go into a public discussion if you already gave the president that power, I wonder.

I see nothing wrong with his desire to look stronger, some media keeps portraying him as a weak president vs Putin and a betrayer. Regarding his character, it's pretty normal for a guy like him to try get his reputation back.

The goal of the strike was not killing SA soldiers, but destroying one of their airfields. And warning Russians is a good sign to keep neutral relations with Russia.

You would be cursing Trump if he killed Russians inside that base and praising Obama for sending a great message without killing anyone.


LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
April 07 2017 03:04 GMT
#145813
On April 07 2017 11:55 Mohdoo wrote:
Do we have anyone here who is skeptical that these chemical attacks actually happened?

The motive doesn't seem to be there, beyond that not much to say. This basically all happened in the span of two (?) days.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 07 2017 03:08 GMT
#145814
On April 07 2017 12:02 lastpuritan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2017 11:49 Plansix wrote:
On April 07 2017 11:46 lastpuritan wrote:
On April 07 2017 11:36 zlefin wrote:
On April 07 2017 11:34 lastpuritan wrote:
Well, no matter we like it or not. He had courage to do it while Obama and whole world stood idly for years. Now Assad will think twice before targeting civilians, this little-something is what we couldn't achieve by previous administration for years and years. It's still a GOOD JOB.

more like a mixed bag. courage and stupidity can overlap a lot. to act without congressional approval/consent in waging war upon a country.
also, this isn't about targetting civilians, it's about the use of chemical weapons specifically (at least ostensibly).


But Trump said he was shocked by civilian deaths and changed his views on Assad because images of dead children hurt him deeply.

Not saying Assad won't be killing civilians in the future, but he'll probably reconsider his plan to terminate all the population opposes him.

-

Congress would approve it anyways, why lose time when you can strike fast and send a strong message.

Or Trump lied and launched missiles to seem stronger than Obama, doesn't give a shit about kids and just wanted to look tough.

They didn't strike that fast. They warned Russia, Assad's ally, and the base was free of staff when it was hit. They literally called ahead before sending the missiles.

And if it was going to be approved anyways, not reason to deprive the American people of the public discussion.


Why would you go into a public discussion if you already gave the president that power, I wonder.

I see nothing wrong with his desire to look stronger, some media keeps portraying him as a weak president vs Putin and a betrayer. Regarding his character, it's pretty normal for a guy like him to try get his reputation back.

The goal of the strike was not killing SA soldiers, but destroying one of their airfields. And warning Russians is a good sign to keep neutral relations with Russia.

You would be cursing Trump if he killed Russians inside that base and praising Obama for sending a great message without killing anyone.



I calling Trump on the bullshit excuse that he was moved by photos of dead kids. He wants to ban those same kids from coming here for safety.

I have few problems with the strikes, Assad has been a nightmare for the world for to long. More nations should stand up to him. I have a problem with how Trump went about it. How he didn't seek congressional approval. How this is going to be played up a him being strong on Assad, when they called ahead first to make sure the Russians and Syrian government had time to remove anything worth hitting. There are 5 more airstrips in Syria.

This shows all the signs of someone who wants to do the bare minimum possible, and then be praised.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
April 07 2017 03:08 GMT
#145815
On April 07 2017 11:34 lastpuritan wrote:
Well, no matter we like it or not. He had courage to do it while Obama and whole world stood idly for years. Now Assad will think twice before targeting civilians, this little-something is what we couldn't achieve by previous administration for years and years. It's still a GOOD JOB.

no, it's outright stupid. The US has no right to meddle in the affairs of other countries. It has nothing to with courage, it's just Trump acting impulsive as usual and people praising him for it.

On April 07 2017 11:35 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2017 11:33 BigFan wrote:
The fact that no one sees why this is problematic and outright stupid to do is troubling. On that note, I also wish the US would stop intervening in middle eastern affairs whenever they want.


The last 4 presidents at least ended up more interventionist than their campaign rhetoric. Something happens once you get there.

ya, good point. Still doesn't make this right.

On April 07 2017 11:35 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2017 11:33 BigFan wrote:
The fact that no one sees why this is problematic and outright stupid to do is troubling. On that note, I also wish the US would stop intervening in middle eastern affairs whenever they want.

Was stupid but we were expecting a war. Maybe we'll get one.

So, you're ok with people on either sides dying because we expected a war? Wars aren't fun. Sorry but this is a poor mentality.

On April 07 2017 11:55 Mohdoo wrote:
Do we have anyone here who is skeptical that these chemical attacks actually happened?

I'm extremely skeptical that Assad actually did this. Western media is extremely bias and crap when it comes to covering ME. As a middle eastern, I see it all the time whenever I read arabic news and watch arabic channels. My advice to you folks is not to take everything you read at face value because this is the exact kind of stuff that leads to war. There is a reason that "Ignorance is Bliss" gets thrown around all the time. Personally, I want the US to stop interfering with the ME.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
lastpuritan
Profile Joined December 2014
United States540 Posts
April 07 2017 03:08 GMT
#145816
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-idlib-turkey-idUSKBN1780RV

Autopsy results have revealed that chemical weapons were used in an attack which killed at least 70 people in Syria's Idlib province, Turkish Justice Minister Bekir Bozdag told reporters on Thursday.

Thirty-two victims of Tuesday's attack have been brought to Turkey and three have subsequently died.


Have a look at this also: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/04/05/russia-gas-attack-victims-faked-it.html
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43232 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-07 03:13:48
April 07 2017 03:10 GMT
#145817
On April 07 2017 11:55 Mohdoo wrote:
Do we have anyone here who is skeptical that these chemical attacks actually happened?

I can't imagine either Zeo or Nettles breaking the Infowars party line. Incidentally they both spent the entire of 2016 insisting that a military strike on Syria would instantly trigger WWIII and that's why we would all die unless Trump were elected. If either of them were capable of shame, and I think it's evident to all that they're not, they should be feeling it today.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-04-07 03:12:19
April 07 2017 03:10 GMT
#145818


How about that?



This is good stuff people. We are inside the political mind of the president right now.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
April 07 2017 03:12 GMT
#145819
On April 07 2017 11:47 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/DavidCornDC/status/850177341758242816

r/thedonald was doing this earlier today. Surprised Infowars took this long to pick up on it
lastpuritan
Profile Joined December 2014
United States540 Posts
April 07 2017 03:12 GMT
#145820
On April 07 2017 12:10 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/373581528405905408

How about that?




And come on, it's Trump...
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